Empty Force

[h.uriahr]

 

 

It seems you also do not know the answers of these simple and humble questions.

 

I already purchased and read the book years ago but could not find the replies from there too.

 

I have watched the youtube video (www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0fetyVx-YY) Paul Dong is doing a qigong as far as I understand, a medical qigong for healing purposes, that is very nice, but again, somebody who focuses on his One-Point (Dan Tian) could really beat him. This is not the highest martial art skill in China definitely If you say that, it is sufficient for you, go for it. But do not solely rely on it in a real fight like kiai "master" Yanagikuryen did.

 

 

 

On the contrary, I am showing the most respect by telling the truths instead of keeping silent. I have no personal profit from showing you and the others the truths. The root cause of the problem is that your nafs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nafs) does not like the truths and this is your problem.

 

If you don't cite your training history, masters, etc then you aren't helping. You're just derailing.

[Isimsiz Biri]

If you don't cite your training history, masters, etc then you aren't helping. You're just derailing.

 

Again, this thread is not about me. If I talk about myself, then I will really derail. The subject is Empty Force. You are not asking me to derail this thread and make Lifeforce more nervous, are you?

Edited November 21, 2012 by Recep Ivedik

[Isimsiz Biri]

There is a five minute video clip of Mr. Paul Dong:

 

http://s62.beta.phot...html?sort=3&o=0

 

The video clip shows a seminar given by Mr. Paul Dong.

 

00:20 Mr. Paul Dong says: "I will find out who is sensitive to Empty (Force) and who is not sensitive to Empty (Force)"

 

01:00 Then we see Mr. Paul Dong giving qi to with his two palms to right palm of some of the attendees.

 

01:20 The narrator says " Step One in exercising his qi, "Master" Dong selects some of the folks to see how receptive they are to his energy. Without touching them, he focuses his energy on their (right) hand and folks like Janet says they feel it"

 

02:20 The narrator says "Once "Master" Dong detects who is sensitive to his energy, he begins a series of demonstrations. The first one, he would put a wooden door in front of the students. If he can, he will push them with his energy. All he asks from them is not to resist."

 

Then we see "Master" Dong directing his qi through a wooden door to some ladies standing behind the wooden door. These ladies really stumble and are pushed backwards with his qi. There is no trick here. Honestly, he gives qi to selected persons.

 

04:10 "Master" Dong gives energy to a group of attendees who are sitting down on the ground. A few of them lays down due to his energy while the others remain sitting.

 

Master Dong has really qi. I do not doubt it. This is exactly the same situation with so called Kiai Master Yanagikuryen (

) Yanagikuryen really throws his students with his qi because there is some kind of bond between them due to long practice hours together. However, a determined outsider really beats him (

)

 

So Mr. Paul Dong is also aware of this fact. First, he selects the person who are sensitive to his Empty Force, then he goes on with his demonstrations. Note that, he asked from them not to resist. This is the key issue. In order to feel that Empty Force, you must be sensitive to it and you should not resist to it. Mr. Paul Dong clearly shows these points and the level of his art without hiding anything.

 

So if you say that this is the highest martial art level, I have no objection. Go on and practice this art. But any person who focuses on his/her One Point (Dantian) will beat you if you only fight with this art.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Recep Ivedik

[Basher]

If my memory serves me correctly, I believe that Chris Crudelli in his TV series "Mind, Body & Kick Ass Moves" interviewed a Japanese (I think) Karate Master. Who had the ability to put off opponants from attacking him, over a distance of several feet. Chris was a bit skeptical so tried it for himself. Whenever he started to move in for an attack, he felt blocked and overwhelmed. Not sure how or why it worked. I'll need to dig out my dvd & take another look.

 

About 25 years ago I witnessed a demonstration by a Tai Chi / Kung Fu Grandmaster. In which he made the entire class of 40 students & Instructors sway and eventually lose their balance. I myself felt "pushed" over from a distance of several yards. But as I was a student / willing victim, I was still skeptical / unsure if this would work out on the street.

 

Also Derren Brown once did a very similar thing in a martial arts class and claimed it was just a phsycological trick.

 

Basher

[Isimsiz Biri]

If my memory serves me correctly, I believe that Chris Crudelli in his TV series "Mind, Body & Kick Ass Moves" interviewed a Japanese (I think) Karate Master. Who had the ability to put off opponants from attacking him, over a distance of several feet. Chris was a bit skeptical so tried it for himself. Whenever he started to move in for an attack, he felt blocked and overwhelmed. Not sure how or why it worked. I'll need to dig out my dvd & take another look.

 

Dear Basher,

 

Thank you for the input. Is the men you mentioned is Master Sasaki of Hida Shiki Kyouken Jutsu in the following link?

 

(

)

 

Sasaki Sensei uses his kiai combined with his voice. I do not know Sasaki Sensei, whether he is a real master or not. But the technique is well known in Japanese martial arts. Uechiba Morihei Sensei, O Sensei of Aikido had a similar ability. Similarly, top disciples of O Sensei, Koichi Tohei and Morihiro Saito Sensei did too. This technique is much different than Empty Force of Paul Dong.

 

IAbout 25 years ago I witnessed a demonstration by a Tai Chi / Kung Fu Grandmaster. In which he made the entire class of 40 students & Instructors sway and eventually lose their balance. I myself felt "pushed" over from a distance of several yards. But as I was a student / willing victim, I was still skeptical / unsure if this would work out on the street.

 

This is exactly what I tried to explain. Thank you.

 

Also Derren Brown once did a very similar thing in a martial arts class and claimed it was just a phsycological trick.

 

I have also watched on TV a man from Russia doing the same thing in the tv studio. The other person should definitely be open and not resist.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Recep Ivedik

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

At the core of it all, there is an instinctual/"autonomous" initiative. We can do these things very easily without a thought. It is thinking too much that furthers our distance from this goal.

[Mal]

While I wasn't looking for empty force when I saw 0:47 it's what I though of.

 

I hope your practice is going well lifeforce

 

... lots of continious practice required ~3hrs everyday for 3 years IIRC. Paul Dongs "Empty Force"

 

 

and I think that was for the force effective on 60% of people he outlined 3 practices that gave increasing % results, yes ?

 

Regardless like you said

 

 

But even if you don't develop this power, you'll have a pretty good zhan zhuang and meditation practice.

 

Exactly and personal experience is everything while time is relative ... if I'd started practicing this from the date in the 1st quote

Edited May 21, 2013 by Mal Stainkey

[林愛偉]

Standing practice, Rocking practice, Pressing practice, Projecting practice, Expansive and contracting practice, solidifying practice...all without holding the view that it is going to get you anywhere.

Then, just practice further methods of quieting the mind, allowing the moment before discriminating thinking arises, so there can be a thought that is not attached to...split second intuitive response allows for the function to manifest.

 

Takes time, lots of practice, both in the method and in meditation. The more important point is the attainment of ending the internal dialogue. Wonders happen from that point.

[dogson]

This thread is hilarious. Despite all the fear of misuse, killing, health problems, this energy is WHAT WE ARE.

Chi is literally life force, the animating energy of all life.

 

We are all going to have these powers one day.

The desire to cultivate energy and reach a high level is our evolutionary imperative. Empty Force is real, and we experience it every day. When someone looks at you, and you involuntarily turn your head to look at them - that's empty force that got projected at you. When you think of someone and then they call you, that's empty force that got projected at you. Everyone has experienced some form of it - being able to physically throw someone without touching them is just an extreme version. It's the same as driving a honda civic versus a Bugatti Veyron.

 

Once, I saw an old woman limping across the street when I was stopped at an intersection, and I just impulsively tried to send her some energy because I felt compassion for her. She immediately started RUNNING across the street! That's when I realized that empty force, and the ability to emit qi is very plastic. We use it all the time for all kinds of things. Everyone will see a unique expression of the power, but it animates EVERYTHING we do, not just Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon stuff or Neo in the Matrix, although if you really want that, you can get that.

[dogson]

Also I just want to defend Paul Dong's book. It's not "garbage." If it inspires one person to practice chi gong for even five minutes, or opens anyone's eyes to the reality that this energy exists, that's worthwhile.

[ssmith7]

Hello,

 

Yeah, empty force is real. While I have not seen it done to knock people over, I know it is useable. I have remedial skill in this style. You need intention and developed chi energy. Place your spirit within the target, then send out you energy which will emit in waves, gently pushing your subject (It needs to be a person). My teacher and I practice this on occassion. I don't know if I will ever be able to knock people out, but I know the concept is real.

 

Hope that helps,

Shawn

[Basher]

I've done the "easy" bit, and have bought Paul Dong's book

 

I'm off work for a few days sometime soon, so will attempt the next stage i.e. to read / understand it then..

 

Will be a lot harder to spend weeks/months/years putting it into practice, unless you start seeing some results (even small ones) along the way. To show that you're on the right track.

[Mudfoot]

When I trained Lin Kong Jing I was told that it was the martial application of Kong Jing, but that explanation might be true only for that particular teacher. I quit the martial side years ago, so can't say if it works in a hot combat situation, but was fun in training though. In the style I practice, Kong Jing is translated Universal force, not Empty force. Some styles calls it Cosmic force, and there are numerous books with exercises for this.

Although styles like Hsing-I train in it (in san ti), Kong Jing as taught by my teacher is used fot two main reasons: Healing and transmitting experiences to students. The latter is a key technique in both Buddhist and Daoist tradition.

I belive (but I might be wrong here) that Kong Jing as Empty force for combat is rarely a key technique.

Would you like to depend on it when your life is at stake?

[Ish]

When I trained Lin Kong Jing I was told that it was the martial application of Kong Jing, but that explanation might be true only for that particular teacher. I quit the martial side years ago, so can't say if it works in a hot combat situation, but was fun in training though. In the style I practice, Kong Jing is translated Universal force, not Empty force. Some styles calls it Cosmic force, and there are numerous books with exercises for this.

Although styles like Hsing-I train in it (in san ti), Kong Jing as taught by my teacher is used fot two main reasons: Healing and transmitting experiences to students. The latter is a key technique in both Buddhist and Daoist tradition.

I belive (but I might be wrong here) that Kong Jing as Empty force for combat is rarely a key technique.

Would you like to depend on it when your life is at stake?

 

Sounds like you have a very good teacher.

If it's OK for you to say can i ask who it is?

 

 

As for empty force - in the Shaolin tradition there's Marvelous fist, Strike across space palm and One Finger Shooting Zen.

There are training methods for each and they are meant for martial application but it just depends on your degree of power i guess.

It would take many many years of dedicated practice to achieve the skills but you would see continual progress if you learnt the methods from a proper teacher : so i guess if one really wants to get this level of power they could do it.

[Wu Ming Jen]

Kong jin, spiral jin, rubbing jin, filing jin, lifting jin, lightness jin, weighted jin, pressing jin, cavity strike jin, wave jin, misplacing bone jin, tendon seizing jin, condensing jin, expanding jin, plucking jin and so many more manifested energies used martially.

 

Why in the world would we ever select one form of jin. With so many tools why would we try to build a house with a just a screw driver. So many people go after the miracle diet or the miracle food like one thing out of the whole world is the key or the best thing for everything.

 

Kong jin is one tool, to say it is the highest form is like saying water is better than fire To have any proficiency or use martially it must be paired with its opposite or it is incomplete. Ward off is completed by rollback or visa versa.

 

So my spin on kong jin is an energy manifested in any form without touching someone, we all do it every day,train this ability, the intention of mind leading energy created by our own vitality (the base needs to be strong first) will get dence like demi physical. We pass our emotions to other people because they are a dense concentrated energy that is transferable to others.

 

Anyone who promotes Kong Jin as exclusive and the highest form of manifested energy are lost or have amnesia of all the other tools used. What is the intention,how "WILL" this energy affect another living person. Empty force means it can be manifested in limitless ways, use it to not have a fight ever develop. Use it to stop violence and not promote it.

 

Stop violence in ourselves and handle violent behavior with ease. Good luck with training

[Mudfoot]

 

 

We pass our emotions to other people because they are a dense concentrated energy that is transferable to others.

 

 

Stop violence in ourselves and handle violent behavior with ease. Good luck with training

 

Point being that one should work on ones emotions before focusing on Kong Jing training, so one can take responsibility for the Qi one spreads.

Out of respect for ones training partners if nothing else.

 

What goes around, comes around?

[Mudfoot]

Sounds like you have a very good teacher.

If it's OK for you to say can i ask who it is?

 

 

As for empty force - in the Shaolin tradition there's Marvelous fist, Strike across space palm and One Finger Shooting Zen.

There are training methods for each and they are meant for martial application but it just depends on your degree of power i guess.

It would take many many years of dedicated practice to achieve the skills but you would see continual progress if you learnt the methods from a proper teacher : so i guess if one really wants to get this level of power they could do it.

I will follow basic rules of conduct here, so my name, my lineage and the size of my **** will remain private

 

Many training methods can give more than one result. For example, Shaolin methods developed for Poison Fingers prepare you very well for External Qi Healing.