Do You Have A Hidden Agenda ?

[thelerner]

Few Americans realize that "it is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" J Krishnamurti

Ofcourse if a 'sick' society thinks your unbalanced you maybe sane or just as likely so delusional that you're REALLY sick and living in a fantasy land of uno.

 

Hard to tell, my rule of thumb is its not how well you agree with society as how well you can live in it.

 

I was around in 2002, I remember the controversy but a few people out of 300 million going over board over a few words (added in '50s) in the pledge should not be blanket indictment of society.

 

You want to believe everyone who's not You, is crazy. You're amplify controversies out proportion- a few people over react so the nations crazy, some people disagree with your idea of love so they're like rapists. Too much extremism, and setting yourself up to Jesuslike with statements like .. "Absolute love cannot be sent. Oops! I was crucified banished from this forum once for discussing such a taboo subject."

 

We discuss and argue here. When people think you're wrong, you repost your argument in as many threads as you can hoping to gain traction. When many, not all, continue to disagree with you, you pull the old worn out, Krishnamurti quote and say we're guilty of group think cause we disagree with one so brilliant as yourself. Whereas if we agree'd with you, I doubt you'd go pull that particular rabbit out.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Dear All,

 

as a very recent "Poster" on this Forum, I'm delighted to read a great deal of the Posts... as they are usually educational, interesting, thought provocking and / or entertaining.

 

But I've already read a lot of Negative comments about various people / subjects.

 

You know the kind of thing... "I've been practising "XYZ" for 10 years and if you've been doing "ZYX" then you're just a fool wasting your time "

 

 

If you treat everybody else with Contempt, purely because they disagree with you & your views. then I'd suggest that you're actually not practising the Taoism you preach (if you know what I mean).

 

 

Basher

 

 

I think if you keep an open mind and try to sift through the unnecessary commentary, you will find a great motherlode of good information and correct practice. some times, more often than not as you have noted, the disagreements are purely semantics and everyone can learn a great deal as long as they dont get caught up in the argument.

 

 

Tulku, Vmarco, ralis, Joeblast, to name jsut a few, are great sources of truths, but they have habits of wrapping them up in ways that hide the correctness they contain.

 

 

Have fun!

[Vmarco]

Ofcourse if a 'sick' society thinks your unbalanced you maybe sane or just as likely so delusional that you're REALLY sick and living in a fantasy land of uno.

 

Hard to tell, my rule of thumb is its not how well you agree with society as how well you can live in it.

 

I was around in 2002, I remember the controversy but a few people out of 300 million going over board over a few words (added in '50s) in the pledge should not be blanket indictment of society.

 

You want to believe everyone who's not You, is crazy. You're amplify controversies out proportion- a few people over react so the nations crazy, some people disagree with your idea of love so they're like rapists. Too much extremism, and setting yourself up to Jesuslike with statements like .. "Absolute love cannot be sent. Oops! I was crucified banished from this forum once for discussing such a taboo subject."

 

We discuss and argue here. When people think you're wrong, you repost your argument in as many threads as you can hoping to gain traction. When many, not all, continue to disagree with you, you pull the old worn out, Krishnamurti quote and say we're guilty of group think cause we disagree with one so brilliant as yourself. Whereas if we agree'd with you, I doubt you'd go pull that particular rabbit out.

 

 

Yes, your particular inconsiderate way of posting is understandable,...you obviously live a very honest life, from your perception.

 

Your failure to see the Christian takeover of America in the 50's, like the impermissible government endorsement and propaganda of religion on all US currency, and their infiltration of nearly every aspect of Americanized life, from the largest prison population in the world, to their calendar which disconnect and suppress its citizens from the natural rhythms of earth and our relationship within the universe, is typical, head-in-the-sand post-Americanism.

 

In other words, just because you're fully content to be be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society,...do you obviously believe everyone else should too. Sure, that's your prerogative,...like the Tea Party believes that their social conservative intrusions into everyone's life not like them, is part of the cure.

 

As I'm not a Christian, Muslem or Jew, your slight about being Jesus-like doesn't apply to me. However, the statement that absolute love cannot be sent, is fully valid, and verifiable (by healthy, non-faith-based people).

 

In the 90's there were some studies on the geometry of Sending Love,...especially that of projecting love to others without their consent. During that study and subsequent debate, Constance Demby wrote, is it the THE 'SENDING' THAT CAUSES THE BACKLASH, or THE "INTENTION TO ENFORCE A CHANGE!" In fact, the backwash begins EVEN BEFORE THAT with the PERCEPTION that there is something WRONG in the first place! That initial perception of a wrongness is what begins stirring the waters, not the "sending."

 

Bob Dratch argued, True Service is the spontaneous outflow of a loving heart and an intelligent mind; it is the result of being in the right place and staying there; it is produced by the inevitable INFLOW (not SENDING), of spiritual force and NOT by strenuous physical plane activity (doing a "something" for instance)..." the Master INFLOWS, the universe responds by sending the energy out not by a push but by a pull). Pushing is invading the space of another.

 

Dratch said, Link a planet up by telling innocent people to SEND LOVE (or ANY SENDING ACTION), or any other way where the resultant action is to "create an effect" in others by having others who are aware and those who are NOT AWARE of what is going on receive the SENDING action, is to open us globally up for a fall. AND we are seeing that globally. God help the innocents that were subjected to this violation of spiritual law!

 

Folks, I don't know if this negativity can be stopped, I am very disappointed that these people who purport to us that they have a RIGHT to do this. The negative effect is not stopping, or diminishing, it is growing, and it is not the LIGHT that is growing, but as Dan Winter noted, it is another way for expressing a wave of death.

 

If you setup your nervous system to simply BE instead of the going through the "action of sending", you create a nervous system "template" that allows all patterns of love, light and radiance (if that is your intent) to naturally come into existence. Sending however, incurs the electromagnetic inversion. Consider it people, the truely classical meditators say BE, the ones that haven't the foggiest about how energy works in space say SEND IT OUT - your choice folks! If you are happy with your personal meditation, by all means, PRAY to ALL GOD's and BE what you are, but if you send that action out to God, be prepared for the negative response."

 

How arrogant,...and criminal,...is the violation of spiritual law to think that one can Send Love. But in a sick Country like America, the majority rules,...even though the US Constitition explicitly states that it doesn't.

 

America is one nation under a Constitution. Although the Constitution sets up a representative democracy, it specifically was amended with the Bill of Rights in 1791 to uphold individual and minority rights. On constitutional matters we do not have majority rule. The majority has no right to tyrannize the minority on matters such as race, gender, or religion,...although people like yourself appear to disagree,...for people like youself, it's all ok as long as you can believe that you live a well life.

 

V

[thelerner]

...you obviously live a very honest life

 

Thank you, I try but don't always succeed.

 

Don't understand your points on 'Sending Love' experiments. As far adding ..in God we Trust and One Nation Under God, I don't see the big deal either way. The whole angle of Christian Take over is a seeing the pendulum swing from over zealous separation of Church and state where any mention of God is vilified to a swing back where religious right wingers have an edge and try to push legislation. One side gains a temporary edge setting up for counter resistance that pushes too far.

 

In my nearly 5 decades here I've seen liberal mid 60's & 70's replaced by Reagan 80's and push back liberal 90's, a middle grounds of heavy political correctness. I think right now, we're closer to middle ground with forces pushing in both directions, we may see real movement depending on who wins the Presidency in November. (In my opinion the Tea is as likely to hurt the republicans by forcing out there middle then help them.) But I think we need to see changes as swings that will reverse themselves and not as points on a line.

 

The progressive looks at the Tea Party and quivers in fear. The hard core conservative looks at the Occupy Movement and think the same. So much of reality where we look, and if you don't take in the whole picture you get paranoid. The pendulum swings, with forces on each side.

 

Let's face it, we rarely say the pledge of allegiance and those who do are generally not in the mind set of making a sacred pledge, its mostly said by bored school kids and slightly drunken baseball fans. Likewise the dollar doesn't get much respect and you might as well claim there's an Egyptian or Free Mason conspiracy to it as Christian.

 

There are pieces of legislature that matter, but imo the people who fight for, or against the ..in god we trust are wasting there time when there are real issues to discuss.

Edited May 14, 2012 by thelerner

[Taomeow]

Did I already mention that traps for cats are pointless...

Inordinate animals!

 

Don't know about the rest of the cats, can account for this one.

 

Puss in boot camp. Trying to qigong and taiji more, now that the weather is online. Exploring the boulders piled up along the beach for their parkour potential. But I've got something for you privately, please stay tuned.

 

Anyway, ocurred to me that the "hidden agenda" suggested by the OP might be in reference to one or more aspects of a person which are playing themselves out in full unconsciousness of the protagonist. Or, at least until a person gets wind of such a thing and (in my case) goes "WTF" and then, well, if it's properly "hidden", who knows?

How could it be that I'm doing stuff without actual intention or intent for that matter? I don't know what's stranger.

 

In the heyday of my primal explorations, I discovered that

 

1. ALL significant agendas of theirs are hidden from ALL people, and

2. they are not really THEIR agendas, and

3. these hidden agendas are not mere thoughts and ideas and feelings, they actually have a physical counterpart in the brain -- structures erected to initiate and maintain them (neural networks with connections established and severed at the agenda's demand, in a fashion that has nothing whatsoever to do with the normal brain physiology -- the resulting brain cluttered with these structures and emptied out of the sound ones whose place they'd taken being perceived as "my very own" without actually being one's own or functioning toward one's best interest), and

4. of course it's not limited to the brain, the mind and the body are part of it -- they all run errands for hidden programs, and in many cases, it's all they do.

 

I have no advice for people who are becoming aware of those installations. The cauldron in which I cooked my own elixir has been smashed, the recipe fed to the dragon and the tiger, the phoenix feather it had been written down with spontaneously self-immolated. But sometimes I see people who will probably cook a different one eventually, I don't know how and when, but I usually know who and more often than not, why. Though cats are known to have been wrong on occasion.

[Vmarco]

[Apech]

That is because you are unable to consider others.

 

As I mentioned in another thread,...Gurdjieff said, "...consider externally always, internally never." This is obviously Relative Considering; although when fully understood, is likely to uncover Absolute Considering.

 

Gurdjieff had a term he called the Chief Feature; a persons largest barrier obscuring their spiritualized/actualized self. He said the Chief Feature is usually what one likes best about oneself. He also purportedly said that the Chief Feature for most people is Internal Considering.

 

What you say is that it's ok to have Constitutionally illegal stuff going on,...as long as it doesn't affect you today. You really haven't a clue as to what is important. However, if you were to reduce all the problems of America, and thus the World, down to the roots of today's problems, America's impermissible endorsements of theism would be there.

 

From the First Amendment being directly opposed to the First Commandmend,...Christian values are not American values. Christian values are not nature's values. Christian values can never lead the world towards an era of peace.

 

Although I agree that Christians can worship the deludion of their choice,...they don't respect that for me,...as evident from the Tea Party Movement.

 

V

 

Vmarco,

 

This (the bolded statement) is a very sweeping and damning judgement on another poster. How can you possibly know this is true? Do you know the person you are replying to? Have you met them? Do you actually know that they are 'unable to consider others'? Can't you see that you cannot possibly know if this is true or not?

 

I am assuming you come on TTBs because you want to discuss with others. If so perhaps discussion would be better if you tried to be a little less judgmental in your style.

 

A.

[eye_of_the_storm]

 

 

ROAR!!!

 

* shaking forum violently *

 

 

ahhh thats better

[thelerner]

That is because you are unable to consider others.

 

Although I agree that Christians can worship the deludion of their choice,...they don't respect that for me,...as evident from the Tea Party Movement.

 

V

I'm considering you, I just think you have a tendency to stereotype and exaggerate. It's not a good trait, it leads paranoia and worrying about trifles when there are issues that have vastly more importance. Your latest windmill is deism in America? Good luck with that.

 

Are Christians keeping you from worshiping in your own way? Most Tea Partiers may be Christian, but most Christian aren't Tea Partiers.

 

Other then imagined, what have they done to you? Your money is tainted by 'in god we trust?'? A child somewhere has included 'one nation under god' in since 1950's? Again, I don't see that as a big deal. In a country with problems with hunger, unemployment, environmental degradation, education, your biggest worry is Deism and what's on a coin. Jeez.

 

Personally I find hardcore fundamentalist Atheists to be as bad as any other fundamentalists. I'm not Christian, but I have no problem with public or private displays on religious holidays. I chalk it up to holiday spirit. I don't need to waste my time being offended where no offense or proselytization is meant.

[Vmarco]

Vmarco,

 

This (the bolded statement) is a very sweeping and damning judgement on another poster. How can you possibly know this is true?

A.

 

It is true through the statements made in posts, which are brought up in my post. I do not, never, make damning judgments. What you failed to observe was a critique of comments made. From thelerners previous comments, he does not consider the Civil and Human Rights of others beyond his own Internal Considering,...there is no damning judgment,...it is what it is.

 

Just because thelerner believes himself unaffected by the numerous impermissible government endorsements of christianity,...which as the the 9th District Court said "sends a message to unbelievers that they are outsiders, not full members of the political community, and an accompanying message to adherents that they are insiders, favored members of the political community."

 

In addition, just because the majority feels that way, that is, thelerner's "who cares attitude" does not make it right. In America, as I mentioned,...is one nation under a Constitution. Although the Constitution sets up a representative democracy, it specifically was amended with the Bill of Rights in 1791 to uphold individual and minority rights. On constitutional matters we do not have majority rule. The majority has no right to tyrannize the minority on matters such as race, gender, or religion.

 

And yet, the minority is being tyrannized EVERYDAY by the Christocrat majority,...who enable their Fundamentalist brothers in usurping the Rights of the People.

 

It's simple.

 

V

[Vmarco]

[JohnC]

 

Just gonna leave this here. Enjoy.

[Aetherous]

Personally I find hardcore fundamentalist Atheists to be as bad as any other fundamentalists. .

 

Their stance is illogical...impossible to prove that a god doesn't exist.

 

A softcore moderate Agnostic is the most cuddly species.

[Bubbles]

 

 

Just gonna leave this here. Enjoy.

 

Thanks JohnC , you have just made my day with this one. Thumbs up!

Edited May 15, 2012 by bubbles

[thelerner]

 

A softcore moderate Agnostic is the most cuddly species.

Softcore moderate Agnostic, Oooo baby, what are they wearing?

Are they in a hot tub? Sounds like my kinda speciman

Edited May 15, 2012 by thelerner

[Birch]

TaoMeow, interesting post!

 

I have recently begun to consider many of my thoughts as pure rubbish. Further to this, I pay a bit more attention to dreams, but not all of those either.

 

In reference to your idea about structures, I did imagine a seaweedy thing that I could extract from, well, wherever required. I also met a wind-dancer made out of forest-branches. I danced with it and it scared the crap out of me. This made it obvious that I am no longer primal but I refuse to go inorganic any more than I already have.

[Aetherous]

Softcore moderate Agnostic, Oooo baby, what are they wearing?

 

Something totally transparent.

[Apech]

Their stance is illogical...impossible to prove that a god doesn't exist.

 

A softcore moderate Agnostic is the most cuddly species.

 

Actually they say there is no evidence that God does exist. Not quite the same thing. I would also add that in my view the God they doubting doesn't exist. Its a fabrication and in that sense they are right.

 

"A softcore moderate Agnostic" ... so that's "I don't know whether god exists or not, he might he might not, I'm 'moderate' whatever that means in this context, so my thoughts are flexible so as not to offend" ... yikes ... change the subject ... do not engage in serious conversation.

[Aetherous]

Actually they say there is no evidence that God does exist. Not quite the same thing. I would also add that in my view the God they doubting doesn't exist. Its a fabrication and in that sense they are right.

 

"A softcore moderate Agnostic" ... so that's "I don't know whether god exists or not, he might he might not, I'm 'moderate' whatever that means in this context, so my thoughts are flexible so as not to offend" ... yikes ... change the subject ... do not engage in serious conversation.

 

Some say there's no evidence of God's existence. I look all aroud and see otherwise, but I'll give them that point...we can say there is no proof of his existence for the sake of argument.

 

But we can also say that there is no proof of his non-existence. That's even more true, since it's completely impossible for someone to know.

 

Strictly logically speaking, a truthful person must be either an agnostic or else someone who has experienced God's existence directly.

 

I could whip out the logic book, but that'd be a huge chore. I don't care enough. Something to look into for those who love logic as a subject...something to try and argue about if they consider themselves Atheist.

[Marblehead]

... if they consider themselves Atheist.

No, I am not going to respond to that. I just don't care enough.

[Aetherous]

You consider yourself to be Atheist, Marblehead?

 

Maybe I should pull out the old logic textbook, and do some exorcisms here!

 

But the Tao keeps making me let go of my cares...damnit.

[Marblehead]

You consider yourself to be Atheist, Marblehead?

 

Maybe I should pull out the old logic textbook, and do some exorcisms here!

 

But the Tao keeps making me let go of my cares...damnit.

Great response Scotty. Yes, I am an Atheist.

 

Regretfully, logic cannot be used to prove that no gods exist or that God exists.

 

Regarding concepts like this I have to go with my direct experiences and insights.

 

I try really hard to not tell people that God or gods do not exist.

 

Yes, we need to let go sometimes, especially where whatever the result is doesn't effect us in the least anyway, except perhaps our ego.

 

A phrase I have used more frequently lately is, "That's just the way it is."

 

For those who believe, "That's just the way it is."

 

Logic is great. But it can take us only so far. Can't really be used when discussing (unsupportable) beliefs.

 

I love talking about Chi energy. Where's the proof? Oh, never mind.

[Aetherous]

Regretfully, logic cannot be used to prove that no gods exist or that God exists.

 

Exactly...so long as it remains true that, "there is no proof".

 

Anyway, I don't think whether a person claims they believe in God or not really matters at this point in human development...the heart matters more.

 

Thanks for the dialogue, Marblehead.

[Taomeow]

TaoMeow, interesting post!

 

I have recently begun to consider many of my thoughts as pure rubbish. Further to this, I pay a bit more attention to dreams, but not all of those either.

 

In reference to your idea about structures, I did imagine a seaweedy thing that I could extract from, well, wherever required. I also met a wind-dancer made out of forest-branches. I danced with it and it scared the crap out of me. This made it obvious that I am no longer primal but I refuse to go inorganic any more than I already have.

 

I think somehow I could see your wind-dancer made out of forest-branches. There's widespread folk beliefs that such things do exist. They are not unlike mermaids in their behavior, only they are of the forest rather than of the water. (A Ukrainian one is called a Mavka. A Japanese one, don't remember what it's called, likes to settle in little hidden Shinto shrines and can become offended if a traveler does not offer it something.)

 

I don't care all that much for most of my thoughts either. They say 95% of everything on the internet is crap, but this is the outcome of 95% of everything in everyone's head, ditto. Maybe someone else's best thoughts and most golden inspirations would qualify as part of the 95% in my head, and then again my most brilliant ones would be, in some smarter head, chalked up to those 95% -- it's always about objective quantity, looks like, not subjective quality of one's thought process. I enjoy the 5% that are fun to have produced (or channeled, depending on whether one sees consciousness as residing inside or outside), but are they really worth putting up with the rest of it?..

 

Meditation, which someone here has recently questioned as "yet another addiction," may well be an addiction to cleanliness in one's mind. After a while, one starts noticing that thoughts, like everything else, create clutter. It does not matter if they are smart thoughts or dumb ones -- too much of anything equals clutter (orderly thinking is deceptive in this respect -- you don't notice the clutter in your innermost closets and drawers and attic and basement if you keep all working surfaces of your mind clean and tidy. Some of the best-organized minds prove to be the most cluttered ones if you dig deeper.)

[Protector]

 

Everyone should be batman,

but when you're batman, you stop being not batman