Verdesi HPRD Seminars in the United States

[mla7]

Hi everybody,

 

I'm writing to let you all know that a close student of David Verdesi will be teaching the foundation practices of David's HPRD system in the US.

 

I learned these practices 3 years ago at a seminar taught by David in Rome and I've practiced them daily since. I really can't recommend them enough to people who want a solid base from which to cultivate qi or shen.

 

The cost of the training is $1500 per person. Please feel free to PM me with any questions or whatever.

 

 

Mike

[fizix]

Hi everybody,

 

I'm writing to let you all know that a close student of David Verdesi will be teaching the foundation practices of David's HPRD system in the US.

 

I learned these practices 3 years ago at a seminar taught by David in Rome and I've practiced them daily since. I really can't recommend them enough to people who want a solid base from which to cultivate qi or shen.

 

The cost of the training is $1500 per person. Please feel free to PM me with any questions or whatever.

 

 

Mike

Not to beat the dead verdesi horse, but 1500 dollars for teachings that have been freely given for years...? XSZ and basic sitting meditation? Apparently some were ripped for many thousands&thousands by verdesi and his supposed 'masters' and their 'chi pills'...

 

Since this is a public forum, I'll ask you here instead of PM, what exactly can you summarize the "foundation training" of DV as? Is it still simple moving exercise/XSZ and emptiness sitting meditation with hints of unknown power and ability? Verdesi knows how to milk it$$, thats for sure.. Can you possibly provide a general itemization of said 1500$? Verdesi is a snake oil salesman, ripping off the naive and ignorant. He created his own lineage "Lei Shan Dao" basically as a way to rip/teach some watered down version of Mo Pai... Old news, old scam.

Edited May 14, 2012 by fizix

[mla7]

Fizix,

 

 

Thanks for the response, it gives me the opportunity to clarify a few things.

 

First, David is not giving the teachings, it is one of his students named Sean.

 

Second, the content of the seminar will probably include a moving practice (the xing shen zhuang form you mentioned), some standing postures and a sitting meditation practice, with the emphasis being on the sitting.

 

Thirdly, regarding these being teachings "given freely for years" I am not sure what you mean. Although there are videos of people doing the XSZ form online, I think it would be very hard to learn from them. As for the sitting meditation, I am not aware of any free descriptions of the technique being offered, and even if there were, it's hard to imagine being able to practice it effectively without the guidance of an actual teacher.

[mla7]

Ok, for further clarification:

 

Here is a basic idea of what is offered. Very basic, again for those truly interested PM me.

 

Yes XSZ will be taught along with a specific sequence of zhan zhuang postures to promote activation of the qi in a specific manner to support the development of this training.

 

Sheng Zheng Gong will also be taught which is the sitting method of meditation, and no its not quite as simple as just empty sitting.

 

There is the possibility of some nei gong being taught. Its usually not taught until the student has some base and the body and mind is prepared from the previous practices. The foundation practices are extremely powerful and efficient in establishing the base required however they are certainly not the only way and the teacher has said that even if you are new to these specific practices if your base is good then he will teach some NG as well.

 

Just to be clear, I am not here to debate or even discuss David or his practices. I'm simply offering the information and opportunity for those who are interested. For those who just want to voice opinions on David or his practices feel free to start a different thread. This is not directed at anyone in particular, its simply that I would prefer to avoid this thread heading in the direction that this topic usually goes.

[Naziri]

Can Mr. Verdessi "do" anything? Can he demonstrate any mastery of qi, not simply by emitting qi, but can he demonstrate iron body and palm? Can he "do" anything to show that he has any kungfu? $1500 seems awfully high, even from someone who can demonstrate. But i have searched YouTube and never seen Verdessi "do" anything in spite of claiming to be very advanced.

[fizix]

Oh, sean? sean denty, verdesi's promoter/scam facilitator extraordinaire? even worse.

[h.uriahr]

Oh, sean? sean denty, verdesi's promoter/scam facilitator extraordinaire? even worse.

 

It's a different Sean. I've spoken with this Sean a few months ago. Seems nice although I'm not going.

[yiannis]

I would recommend buying the Wang Liping's manual first, before you decide to spend so much money in, of all things, Verdesi's course.

[tapout_toughguy]

Dr Verdesi

[mla7]

fizix: The course is being taught by a different Sean, not Sean Denty sorry for the confusion.

 

 

Naziri: I'm in no way any kind of official spokesperson for David. I only spent 2 weeks with him at a seminar in Rome 3 years ago. For that reason, I feel it might be inappropriate for me to engage in lengthy discussions about his achievements/abilities/character etc. especially on a public forum.

 

 

I will say however that at the seminar he demonstrated his qi to us on 2 separate occasions. Both times it felt similar (yet different in some ways) to a strong electric current. The sensation of the qi was utterly clear and concrete. Nothing vague or subjective about it whatsoever.

 

I'm sorry I can't answer your question about iron body/ iron palm. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by those terms or how they would relate to the system David teaches. I am only a beginner after all!

 

take care, mike

[Practitioner]

Anything associated with Verdesi is completely worthless in my opinion, I would not touch it with a ten foot pole. People here already know all about him, and so people here know not to jump on another scheme of his, or anything even remotely related to him.

 

You would've had better luck not mentioning anything regarding his name. His name around these parts is anathema. Verdesi is known around these parts as a sham and snake oil salesman, and nothing can be done to change his already tarnished reputation. People here at this forum dislike him, and that is putting it very mildly. So I doubt that people here will respond positively to this topic, unfortunate as it may be.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Practitioner

[Naziri]

Agreed. i've been warned by one of my teachers about him. In fact, i've been told that the general attitude towards Westerners in Mo Pai today is in large part due to the darkness surrounding Verdessi and his exorbitant fees. i would be highly surprised if he could actually generate any sort of current, particularly since it took John himself over 20 years to get to that point.

[Aetherous]

Verdesi is known around these parts as a sham and snake oil salesman

 

Only to some. At this forum, there is the group that holds these opinions (quite vocally), and then there are the other groups that do not.

 

I saw his XSZ video and found it interesting. A good side or beginning practice that is physical.

 

One trustworthy Taoist that I know took further training with him, and dropped everything else. Another practitioner of the same caliber has taken training and didn't regret it at all.

 

So at least personally, I'm not interested in seeing people try to shut down all positive discussion about teachers here. Didn't they say in Bambi..."if you have nothing good to say, better to say nothing at all"? Let the interested people be interested...your vitriolic gossip has no bearing on what genuine seekers will want to explore.

[Naziri]

i'll trust what John Chang and his current students say about Verdessi... and it ain't good.

[Gerard]

The cost of the training is $1500 per person.

 

Free teachings here:

 

 

Foundation training

 

 

Circle walking form (Old Eight Palms)

 

 

 

Di Guoyong (Liang Zhenpu style Baguazhang) offers free teachings on the weekends in Beijing. High level neigong practice that cultivates jing-qi-shen to the highest level, a very powerful mind cleansing and karma purifying Taoist & Buddhist tool.

 

 

Vipassana meditation retreats are also free in numerous locations:

 

 

 

Fundamentals of meditation. Free advice and practical tips:

 

 

And more videos on

.

 

Good luck.

[Practitioner]

Only to some. At this forum, there is the group that holds these opinions (quite vocally), and then there are the other groups that do not.

 

I saw his XSZ video and found it interesting. A good side or beginning practice that is physical.

 

One trustworthy Taoist that I know took further training with him, and dropped everything else. Another practitioner of the same caliber has taken training and didn't regret it at all.

 

So at least personally, I'm not interested in seeing people try to shut down all positive discussion about teachers here. Didn't they say in Bambi..."if you have nothing good to say, better to say nothing at all"? Let the interested people be interested...your vitriolic gossip has no bearing on what genuine seekers will want to explore.

 

You completely miss the point. The point here is that he charged enormous unjustifiable fees as to what he was offering, and what he was offering at the time was not even related to what he was selling. So in short, people came to learn Mo Pai, he pulled the old bait and switch technique, and instead started teaching people XZG and other methods. The methods and other stuff were ok as practices, but that is not the point. The point is that people wanted to learn Mo Pai, and he didn't teach a single cent of it. XZG and all that other fluff regarded as his "foundation training" was not even closely related to the carrot he was dangling, and this fact is what continues to this day these things what you call "vitriolic gossip". Mo Pai is very simple, and Verdesi did not have to teach a handful of other different nonrelated practices to it, make people buy chi concoctions and the sort, when the entire practice could be taught in 10 minutes.

 

I know someone who shelled out well over 1000$ on Verdesi tuition fees alone, and came back home very disappointed, still not learning what he wanted to. Now, I don't know your definition of "genuine seeker" is, but don't you think reputation is something to be considered when looking for a teacher, especially when big money is involved? Or do you just jump in the mud and then ask later why you've become dirty? The point being pushed here is if you get scammed, do you sit pretty and act like nothing happened? Or do you tell other people and save them the trouble?

 

You say let people talk about the good but not about the bad. I say let people talk about both, because sometimes the truth isn't always pretty. If this dude's reputation precedes him, then let all the people who have something good to say about him come forth, and let people hear both sides and make their decisions.

[h.uriahr]

You completely miss the point. The point here is that he charged enormous unjustifiable fees as to what he was offering, and what he was offering at the time was not even related to what he was selling. So in short, people came to learn Mo Pai, he pulled the old bait and switch technique, and instead started teaching people XZG and other methods. The methods and other stuff were ok as practices, but that is not the point. The point is that people wanted to learn Mo Pai, and he didn't teach a single cent of it. XZG and all that other fluff regarded as his "foundation training" was not even closely related to the carrot he was dangling, and this fact is what continues to this day these things what you call "vitriolic gossip". Mo Pai is very simple, and Verdesi did not have to teach a handful of other different nonrelated practices to it, make people buy chi concoctions and the sort, when the entire practice could be taught in 10 minutes.

 

I know someone who shelled out well over 1000$ on Verdesi tuition fees alone, and came back home very disappointed, still not learning what he wanted to. Now, I don't know your definition of "genuine seeker" is, but don't you think reputation is something to be considered when looking for a teacher, especially when big money is involved? Or do you just jump in the mud and then ask later why you've become dirty? The point being pushed here is if you get scammed, do you sit pretty and act like nothing happened? Or do you tell other people and save them the trouble?

 

You say let people talk about the good but not about the bad. I say let people talk about both, because sometimes the truth isn't always pretty. If this dude's reputation precedes him, then let all the people who have something good to say about him come forth, and let people hear both sides and make their decisions.

 

The only real question here is what's justifiable? $100? $200? $2000? I've seen his form of XSZ and it's very interesting. As to his other stuff? I dont know. Either way it seems a bit odd that all people really have to go off of is his "price". I havent actually ever read the opinion of someone who has actually put in the time to practice his material and then said "this is shit". It seems this is happening more and more with not just him (David) but others as well.

 

The other issue with your statement is in regards to the mo pai. I'm not sure I've ever personally read anything that lead me to believe that he just flat out teaches neigong in the early foundation classes. What I gathered from his foundation forum and his seminar postings was that you had to take the 2 foundation classes and then possibly proceed to the neigong. Either way I dont think that there's been any actual evidence presented that would make me actually believe that David is an actual "conman". If charging money is all we have then IMO I would regard David as just a seeker of truth, much like myself.

 

I should say that I'm neither for nor against David but I think that for this to be fair, we need to look at both sides. Wang Liping for instance, charges $3500 for his seminars and noone complains. Wang Liping hasnt been subjected to any kind of scientific scrutiny that I'm aware of but people seem to say "yeah ok he's real though". How so? John Chang is another example. No real actual evidence other than a video. Videos are made all the time. If you think his looks real then according to all the "videos" I've seen, dinosaurs are loose on an island and terminators are coming back from the future to kill John and Sarah Connor but luckily we're under the protection of the power rangers and they'll fly all of civilization into space and warp us to another dimension

 

David very well could be a conman but he could also be an honest seeker who has unfortunately been "conned" himself by teacher after teacher. Also, just because he may have had some issues in the past doesnt mean that he's tainted for life. As seekers of truth shouldnt we all be forgiving? I mean especially if we havent actually been effected by him? All I've heard so far is a "friend of a friend or a brother of this guy I once knew had this Uncle whose cousin went to the seminar".

 

My loose change

[RiverSnake]

Hmm....Verdesi has been beaten to death on this forum....i remember when one of his students came on here and was promoting for him....probably one of the longest threads on the taobums...if you search his name you will find it....along with many other threads. Debates ohver teachers and their authenticity can get pretty steamed and nasty on the taobums.

 

I can't say from any personal experience that he's a fraud...but i remember getting a fishy and calculating vibe from when his student was on here promoting even though at times he seemed quite genuine.

 

One should acknowledge that in any occupation or field of study there are going to be those whom are corrupt and abuse their knowledge and abilities. Not saying Verdesi is...but it is something to keep in mind so people are not easily lead like pigs to the slaughter.

 

Also just because a person can shoot electricity out of there hands and burn people with their chi does not me they have Virtue or live a life true to their heart.

 

If anyone has any long term personal experience with Verdesi it is always good to hear other opinions.

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

[Naziri]

What i know and can document is this:

 

David and Sean charge a shit-ton of money to connect with teachers and teachings that are otherwise accessible for far less.

 

From talking with several friends who are students of Wang, Li-Ping, i know that Shifu Wang charges WAY less than Verdessi has skimmed off the top (and off the middle, and even bottom), from students who didn't know how to connect with him. Jiang, as well is another teacher who you can connect with without Verdessi's help, as long as you don't mind getting naked for the boner-test (another story for another time).

 

The Mo Pai that Verdessi learned before being kicked out is taught by a number of other people for much less, and as far as i know, much more/further is taught.

 

i don't even know why a guy like this WANTS to meditate or learn. Is it for super-powers? To be the "it" guy who everybody looks to as someone special. If you are not meditating to gain inner peace and to do your best to make the world a better place then frankly i have no time for you. Anyone who charges thousands and thousands for things that are out there for much less seems to be the antithesis of someone making the world a better place; they seem to be part of what makes the world so fucked up.

 

Anyway, that's all.

[h.uriahr]

What i know and can document is this:

 

David and Sean charge a shit-ton of money to connect with teachers and teachings that are otherwise accessible for far less.

 

From talking with several friends who are students of Wang, Li-Ping, i know that Shifu Wang charges WAY less than Verdessi has skimmed off the top (and off the middle, and even bottom), from students who didn't know how to connect with him. Jiang, as well is another teacher who you can connect with without Verdessi's help, as long as you don't mind getting naked for the boner-test (another story for another time).

 

The Mo Pai that Verdessi learned before being kicked out is taught by a number of other people for much less, and as far as i know, much more/further is taught.

 

i don't even know why a guy like this WANTS to meditate or learn. Is it for super-powers? To be the "it" guy who everybody looks to as someone special. If you are not meditating to gain inner peace and to do your best to make the world a better place then frankly i have no time for you. Anyone who charges thousands and thousands for things that are out there for much less seems to be the antithesis of someone making the world a better place; they seem to be part of what makes the world so fucked up.

 

Anyway, that's all.

 

This is obviously about money then? Should a "master" work a full time job AND then find the time to teach for free? What's reasonable? If I have a family and work making a meager living, should I still charge little to nothing? What if I'm barely clothing my daughter? What if I can do miraculous things like cure cancer and create light with my palms? If I can prove under scientific scrutiny that I'm capable of the things I've mentioned then how much can I charge?

[h.uriahr]

This is obviously about money then? Should a "master" work a full time job AND then find the time to teach for free? What's reasonable? If I have a family and work making a meager living, should I still charge little to nothing? What if I'm barely clothing my daughter? What if I can do miraculous things like cure cancer and create light with my palms? If I can prove under scientific scrutiny that I'm capable of the things I've mentioned then how much can I charge?

 

 

Edit: You say you can "document" this. I challenge you to provide financial proof or whatever "documents" you may have.

[flyinghigh]

What i know and can document is this:

 

David and Sean charge a shit-ton of money to connect with teachers and teachings that are otherwise accessible for far less.

 

From talking with several friends who are students of Wang, Li-Ping, i know that Shifu Wang charges WAY less than Verdessi has skimmed off the top (and off the middle, and even bottom), from students who didn't know how to connect with him.

 

Some say that the reason Master Wang's rates are rather high is, that he found out how much Verdesi actually charged the people he brought to Wang.

 

Jiang, as well is another teacher who you can connect with without Verdessi's help, as long as you don't mind getting naked for the boner-test (another story for another time).

That sounds interesting.

It's mentioned here, too:

"Secondly, part of the preparations for my initiation required me to be stark naked in front of my sifu (master) and his assistants (all male) for my qi to be charged and balanced."

"I was required to lie naked, face up, while Sifu and three assistants analysed the state of my qi. They transferred their qi to me while manipulating and balancing its distribution and flow. Since qi is also sexual energy, they evaluated the adequacy of my qi by checking the strength of my erection!

 

In fact, prior to the session, I had to ask my wife to be ready at home because after being charged with qi to the brim, it must be discharged. And the best way to do so is by having sex."

"Qigong masters can have multiple orgasms without having any refractory period in between." - I wonder whether here he means orgasm with or without ejaculation.

Text here: http://thestar.com.my/health/story.asp?file=/2012/1/29/health/10553625&sec=health

[someone else]

Also just because a person can shoot electricity out of there hands and burn people with their chi does not me they have Virtue or live a life true to their heart.

Verdesi say he is Level Four can make electric. Someone should go to seminar and force him to prove this. Maybe from Brazilian jiujitsu will be good. PUt video on youtube.

 

Should a "master" work a full time job AND then find the time to teach for free?

In one word: yes. This is old school way. I am 45 not so old, but when I study martial art and taichi in before twenty five years, it very important philosophy that even fighting should be spiritual training. How can be commercial spiritual training? This very old question: why Orthodox Church or Catholic Church have so much money for example? But still everyone in their heart know right and wrong.

[h.uriahr]

Verdesi say he is Level Four can make electric. Someone should go to seminar and force him to prove this. Maybe from Brazilian jiujitsu will be good. PUt video on youtube.

 

In one word: yes. This is old school way. I am 45 not so old, but when I study martial art and taichi in before twenty five years, it very important philosophy that even fighting should be spiritual training. How can be commercial spiritual training? This very old question: why Orthodox Church or Catholic Church have so much money for example? But still everyone in their heart know right and wrong.

 

I disagree with you completely. http://supremeboundlessway.com/2011/11/21/esoteric-formula-of-spiritual-alchemy-the-four-pillars-and-sixteen-fortitudes/

 

Right Time is very important. You have to have the means to support your Master be it financially or in someother way as to benefit them. If you cant pay him financially then you'd better be able to clean his house, do some laundry or frame a wall, set a sink, etc. If the 'practice' resonates with you, and I mean REALLY resonates with you then IME, you'll have a love so deep that you will feel that drive to pay your Master in any way possible. My experience is just as I stated. I do have one other thing I'd like to add and it's this. If someone is driven to take up a certain practice and they show desire above and beyond the average person but are completely unable to afford the teachings then I believe that you should teach them and charge them within their means.

[someone else]

I disagree with you completely. http://supremeboundlessway.com/2011/11/21/esoteric-formula-of-spiritual-alchemy-the-four-pillars-and-sixteen-fortitudes/

 

Right Time is very important. You have to have the means to support your Master be it financially or in someother way as to benefit them. If you cant pay him financially then you'd better be able to clean his house, do some laundry or frame a wall, set a sink, etc. If the 'practice' resonates with you, and I mean REALLY resonates with you then IME, you'll have a love so deep that you will feel that drive to pay your Master in any way possible. My experience is just as I stated. I do have one other thing I'd like to add and it's this. If someone is driven to take up a certain practice and they show desire above and beyond the average person but are completely unable to afford the teachings then I believe that you should teach them and charge them within their means.

Everyone has their own opinion and money is yours to spend as you like. For me, I wonder why bishop wear gold robes when jesus say give everything to poor. Maybe same for Chinese religion, maybe not, I don't know. But I only study meditaion because man who teaches this has same opinion - does not take money from student for teach or doctor, and his master the same, and his master the same, ect. Maybe this is just stereotype, maybe we are thinking like children, I don't know.