Political Ethics for Taoists and Buddhists

[ralis]

What are the correct political choices for anyone calling themselves a Taoist? I believe the choices are either one of selfish interest or the realization that all of us are not separate beings apart from each other and what we do has profound effects on others, as well as the biosphere.

 

Just wanted to start this discussion and will write more later.

[Protector]

Climb a mountain, plug your ears, and go LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA

 

 

A lot of political choices are about giving someone else the power to do something, unless you are a politician there's not much you can do

Stuff like making a vote is more of an educated guess but you can't know exactly what is going to happen unless you apply pressure

[idquest]

Neither liberal nor concervative, that's for sure. Those are categories of clown circus in world capitals.

 

As for self versus society, I'd repeat the airplain safety instruction: deal with yourself first then with the others. Makes sense to me. How can somebody help others if he/she can't help him/her self?

Edited May 15, 2012 by idquest

[thelerner]

Neither liberal or concervative, that's for sure. Those are categories of clown circus in world capitals.

 

As for self versus society, I'd repeat the airplain safety instruction: deal with yourself first then with the others. Makes sense to me. How can somebody help others if he/she can't help him/her self?

eeYup. Excellent answer.

[Protector]

Kinda want this thread to last longer

 

[Green Tiger]

I think Taoists (and, to perhaps a lesser degree, Buddhists) are going to stay out of politics. I remember reading a Taoist story about a simple Taoist woodcutter-type dude who is really ugly, and lives in the back country of China. Chuang Tzŭ comes along and is really impressed with this fellow, so he takes him back to the capital to help out with something-or-other.

 

The Taoist woodcutter fellow goes along but he does such a bang-up job in the capital that Chuang Tzŭ asks him to stay indefinitely. The woodcutter guy gets all upset and leaves, saying something like, "I knew you would try to trick me into staying here in this terrible place."

 

Sorry for the awful rendering of that story.

 

It is also noteworthy that Alan Watts said several times that the Tao Te Ching was written as instructions for a ruler. Not sure how he knew that, but I tend to trust Alan. And what does the Tao Te Ching advise? To act without acting. Basically--stay out of the way. You should run a country like you would cook a small fish.

 

I'm a big fan of Thoreau, as well, and I think he is sort of an early American Taoist. Of course, he is famous for saying "The government which governs least, governs best."

 

I think there is a theme here.

 

I think most serious Taoists and Buddhists will probably stay out of politics. That's just their way. Personally, I don't even vote anymore. Not because I'm a Taoist, but because I think the Big Machine is way too out of control for a vote to matter. It is probably going to take something more drastic. And Taoists don't do drastic, do they?

 

"There is the wisdom of the foolish,

the gracefulness of the slow,

the subtlety of stupidity

the advantage of lying low."

 

-- Lin Yutang

[Green Tiger]

 

You might rail on me for this

 

Pun intended?

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Wrong question, perhaps?

 

 

Which one is more Taoist, Dems or Reps? Difficult, since each has the missing quality of the other one. Where the Reps have seemingly less government, they tend to be far more strict in law and prohibitions. Dems have more maternal approach.

 

Maybe, "know the male, but keep to the female" - Lao Tzu.

 

 

Neither one resembles Taoism though..

[Birch]

Seems to me we're not training our political leaders properly.

[JohnC]

Whatever you want.

[Protector]

BAM!

Look at this delicious gem I found

 

[Birch]

What do you mean Mr John C?

 

No worries if you're not referring to my post but I was (relatively) serious about it. Our current education system for democratic leaders seems to rely on something that seems to produce, well, whatever it is that we're currently all upset about in terms of political leadership. Bear in mind that it might not be the working/operational leadership that requires adjustment. Might be other stuff. And I hope we remember that most of our Western systems are intended to be democratic. If that is not what is happening then IMO we ought to take a gander at what we're doing to cause it.

 

We may say we're doing nothing and are not at fault or are not responsible. As far as I know from a Taoist or a Buddhist or a cultivator POV, there has to be something going on that does include us.

[Protector]

I voted for my party during the elections and it was a minority party that is not one of the two big ones...
Well, what I don't agree with with the whole thing is explained in the video

hmmmm

[eye_of_the_storm]

Good post Sin

 

Anarchy is The Way

 

Also: doing nothing is also a form of action / inaction - by not doing you are doing not doing

 

therefore not doing / or not being or nothing is impossible

 

As demonstrated below

 

Edited May 25, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[eye_of_the_storm]

Edited May 18, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[konchog uma]

i think its dangerous to start thinking "daoists are liberal" or "daoists are anarchists" because then you exclude everyone else and start to become a political group instead of a spiritual path! daoist and buddhist groups should include liberals moderates conservatives and all other parties and predilections as far as politics goes.

 

i think politics uses the division of parties to seperate people, dividing and conquering populaces, and keeping them focused on quibbling with each other instead of uniting to solve problems. a spiritual philosophy should be as all-inclusive as it can, welcoming the contributions of each of its members regardless of political views.

[eye_of_the_storm]

i think its dangerous to start thinking "daoists are liberal" or "daoists are anarchists" because then you exclude everyone else and start to become a political group instead of a spiritual path! daoist and buddhist groups should include liberals moderates conservatives and all other parties and predilections as far as politics goes.

 

i think politics uses the division of parties to seperate people, dividing and conquering populaces, and keeping them focused on quibbling with each other instead of uniting to solve problems. a spiritual philosophy should be as all-inclusive as it can, welcoming the contributions of each of its members regardless of political views.

 

Anarchy is the only thing that allows all these things ^ in terms of political views.

 

You can be a conservative anarchist or a liberal anarchist or a communist anarchist

 

etc but not the other way around

 

Anarchy is all embracing and forces nothing

 

live and let live

 

it is the closest thing to the natural way

Edited May 19, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[zerostao]

 

I voted for my party during the elections and it was a minority party that is not one of the two big ones...

Well, what I don't agree with with the whole thing is explained in the video

 

hmmmm

 

hell yeah, owl was elected king i kinda liked turtle tho. and owl and turtle were my two top choices.

i know one bum will not be too pleased to hear of the owl's rise to king. hope we dont have 14 viscious owl threads pop up.

[JohnC]

What do you mean Mr John C?

 

No worries if you're not referring to my post but I was (relatively) serious about it. Our current education system for democratic leaders seems to rely on something that seems to produce, well, whatever it is that we're currently all upset about in terms of political leadership. Bear in mind that it might not be the working/operational leadership that requires adjustment. Might be other stuff. And I hope we remember that most of our Western systems are intended to be democratic. If that is not what is happening then IMO we ought to take a gander at what we're doing to cause it.

 

We may say we're doing nothing and are not at fault or are not responsible. As far as I know from a Taoist or a Buddhist or a cultivator POV, there has to be something going on that does include us.

 

 

What I mean is that anyone serious enough to become a quality and good leader, will take this training into their own hands, and not rely on society/college/whatever to do it for him, which is what it seems your insinuating. That someone(society) is responsible for the training of leaders. When it is the individuals responsibility to train themselves to be a good leader.

 

Society has 'problems' (as defined by who?) but it always will. The individual is responsible for his beliefs and values, whether they are aware of them or not, and they have results.

 

All that aside, taoist and buddhist politics and ethics would be individual and what you decide for yourself.

 

John

[Owledge]

Pun intended?

 

Just reminded me of this essay:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=puns

 

 

 

I voted for my party during the elections and it was a minority party that is not one of the two big ones...

Well, what I don't agree with with the whole thing is explained in the video

 

hmmmm

Leopard and snake make an awesome team.

 

 

Jokes aside... for judging how good a voting system is ... do what is wise and look at reality, then you might learn something about theory vs. praxis and where actual change comes from.

 

By the way, the guy who made the videos wants to explain things? Then why is he talking so fast that he diminishes the quality of the whole thing? Maybe he should write instead. Or does he want to bypass the conscious mind?

Edited May 19, 2012 by Owledge

[Protector]

 

By the way, the guy who made the videos wants to explain things? Then why is he talking so fast that he diminishes the quality of the whole thing? Maybe he should write instead. Or does he want to bypass the conscious mind?

 

I think it makes the video more interesting and interesting things keep my attention

By the way, beginning of this video sound like start of a race sounds

[Owledge]

I think it makes the video more interesting and interesting things keep my attention

ADHD?

 

By the way, beginning of this video sound like start of a race sounds

Apparently intentional.

 

By the way, the shapes on the viking shields look like inspired by drug trips.

[eye_of_the_storm]

I think his speed is fine.

 

the younger gen do tend to speak faster though

[Protector]

Number two

http://www.cracked.com/article_19718_5-bizarre-ways-you-can-brainwash-courtroom_p2.html

[Cat Pillar]

eeYup. Excellent answer.

 

Is that "eeYup" quoting who I think it's quoting, or is it just you?

 

Agreed, btw.

 

Edit: Personally, I don't think big government fits all that well with Taoist philosophy. But I think the answer of who to support must lie with the individual, and that it would be a mistake to make a blanket statement stating that one political view is more objectively Taoist than another.

 

There are too many shades of grey in this world to be playing games with only black and white pieces. IMO.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Cat Pillar