Political Ethics for Taoists and Buddhists

[Brian]

Reasonable persons are just supposed to stand back and do nothing? Enable abusive behavior? I think not!! Have you read any history? Did you bother to read my post? http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/23628-political-ethics-for-taoists-and-buddhists/page__view__findpost__p__341701

 

For a better understanding as to how some here believe and behave, then read a few of the posts in this thread I started.

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/22668-right-wing-war-against-pro-choice/

 

You'd probably be surprised to learn the extent to which I have studied history. In fact, that personal study, including both ends of the spectrum and much in-between -- on a wide range of historical, political, religious, philosophic and scientific fronts -- had a great deal to do with my personal growth over the last 35 years or so. I once was a tie-dyed-wearing, long-haired Dead-head who espoused many of the beliefs you do, and I tended to express them with vitriolic histrionics, too. Over time, however, I learned to challenge my own beliefs and to question the words of those with similar beliefs around me. I now view both political extremes with suspicion. BTW, the opposite of left-wing totalitarianism is not right-wing totalitarianism and those unwilling to recognize this are simply working towards totalitarianism. I don't think that's really what you have in mind...

 

I'd already read that whole thread, the title of which was really sufficient to question its intellectual integrity. I did read the first few posts as you requested, however, and they shed no new light. The very first sentence of the first post is kind of amusing, though!

 

FWIW, I think it is pretty clear that taoist approach to governance would have to be one of least interference -- not left-wing or right-wing, not Democratic or Republican -- and people should be encouraged to follow the tao.

 

As I've said elsewhere, however, I find these threads to be an amusing bit of theater that has no real impact on the glidepath of humanity.

[ralis]

You'd probably be surprised to learn the extent to which I have studied history. In fact, that personal study, including both ends of the spectrum and much in-between -- on a wide range of historical, political, religious, philosophic and scientific fronts -- had a great deal to do with my personal growth over the last 35 years or so. I once was a tie-dyed-wearing, long-haired Dead-head who espoused many of the beliefs you do, and I tended to express them with vitriolic histrionics, too. Over time, however, I learned to challenge my own beliefs and to question the words of those with similar beliefs around me. I now view both political extremes with suspicion. BTW, the opposite of left-wing totalitarianism is not right-wing totalitarianism and those unwilling to recognize this are simply working towards totalitarianism. I don't think that's really what you have in mind...

 

I'd already read that whole thread, the title of which was really sufficient to question its intellectual integrity. I did read the first few posts as you requested, however, and they shed no new light. The very first sentence of the first post is kind of amusing, though!

 

FWIW, I think it is pretty clear that taoist approach to governance would have to be one of least interference -- not left-wing or right-wing, not Democratic or Republican -- and people should be encouraged to follow the tao.

 

As I've said elsewhere, however, I find these threads to be an amusing bit of theater that has no real impact on the glidepath of humanity.

 

 

I am not talking about belief systems but facts in regards to historical events and how those events repeat. Your post is overly generalized. Which thread are you referring to that you feel "question it's intellectual integrity". Obviously you have nothing to add except a vague undefined criticism.

 

Studied history? Then why not contribute!

Edited May 31, 2012 by ralis

[Vmarco]

Now is "making clergy pay taxes" only for christians, or are you demanding that buddhist monks also do so?

 

I peed in the Atlantic Ocean once when I was a child.

 

Why are you so slightful? The post is clearly about ALL religious subsidies.

 

"Leave the matter of religion to the family altar, the church and the private school supported entirely by private contributions. Keep the church andstate forever separate." Ulysses S. Grant, September 25, 1875

 

If you are truly concerned with the State of the Nation, and political ethics for Taoists and Buddhists, instead of bulky at the insignificant amount dribbled to those in need of a social safety net, which immediately goes back into the economy, you might consider the $Billions in Corporate Welfare and $Trillions in Religious subsidies.

 

I agree with Ralis,...no honest, clear thinking, Taoist or Buddhist would support the Tea Party agenda.

 

V

[Vmarco]

people should be encouraged to follow the tao.

 

As I've said elsewhere, however, I find these threads to be an amusing bit of theater that has no real impact on the glidepath of humanity.

 

Does following the Tao suggest stripping away an already bare-bones safety net for people, which is immediatey pumped back into the economy, or inacting over 40,000 new laws, mostly intrusive, like restricting voting rights, penalizing women who desire an abortion, or denegrating LGBT's?

 

What about the $Billions in Corporate Welfare and $Trillions in Religious subsidies, forced upon middle class tax payers. Everytime you pay a sales tax is because Religious entities are not paying their fair share.

 

I have yet to observe a single instance were Tea Party Christocrats (as most like to be called) have followed the Tao. Not only that, but Tea Party Christocrats get their information from the most non-Tao media outlet in existence,...Fox Entertainment.

[Brian]

I am not talking about belief systems but facts in regards to historical events and how those events repeat. Your post is overly generalized. Which thread are you referring to that you feel "question it's intellectual integrity". Obviously you have nothing to add except a vague undefined criticism.

 

Studied history? Then why not contribute!

 

You talk about little but belief systems, specifically your own belief system which you consider to be fact rather than belief. You are interested in proselytizing rather than learning so why would I waste energy providing you with information you already plan to reject? I might as well be talking to a snake-handler.

 

My post was generalized because my view of "everything" is generalized -- it is more complicated than just gleaning through history for events that can support one's pre-existing conception. I could have included several other pertinent fields of study but what would be the point?

 

In terms of "which thread," that seemed obvious as there was only one of which you specifically asked me to "read a few of the posts."

 

BTW, if you are going to quote me, please don't mangle my grammar!

[Brian]

Does following the Tao suggest stripping away an already bare-bones safety net for people, which is immediatey pumped back into the economy, or inacting over 40,000 new laws, mostly intrusive, like restricting voting rights, penalizing women who desire an abortion, or denegrating LGBT's?

 

What about the $Billions in Corporate Welfare and $Trillions in Religious subsidies, forced upon middle class tax payers. Everytime you pay a sales tax is because Religious entities are not paying their fair share.

 

I have yet to observe a single instance were Tea Party Christocrats (as most like to be called) have followed the Tao. Not only that, but Tea Party Christocrats get their information from the most non-Tao media outlet in existence,...Fox Entertainment.

 

Nope! None of the above. You really oughta pay more attention.

 

I'm curious about the data supporting your "most like to be called" claim, though. While I'm not a tea party member by a long shot, so I take no personal slight from your bitterness, I think you come across as a bully & a bigot. Hopefully that's not a reflection of who you are in real-life.

 

FWIW, my take on TTB is that, while anyone is capable of bullying, we have three belief-based groups that seem somewhat more prone to bullying -- dogmatic Budhists, antitheists/antichrists, and left-wingers/liberals/progressives/socialists/statists/communists/syndicalists/Marxists/Maoists/Castroites/Alinskyites/self-appellation-of-the-week. Membership in more than one of these groups seems to increase the likelihood of bad behavior towards fellow Bums who may not share these beliefs.

[Vmarco]

Nope! None of the above. You really oughta pay more attention.

 

I'm curious about the data supporting your "most like to be called" claim, though.

 

Well,...if you read the posts within this thread, a link was given to support the statement that many Tea Party people choose to be identified as Christocrats,...which is nothing extraordinary, considering their involvement in the over 40,000 new, many intrusive, religious motivated laws, Tea Party legislatures inacted in 2012.

 

Tea Party faithful = anti-Tao

Edited May 31, 2012 by Vmarco

[Brian]

Well,...if you read the posts within this thread, a link was given to support the statement that many Tea Party people choose to be identified as Christocrats,...which is nothing extraordinary, considering their involvement in the over 40,000 new, many intrusive, religious motivated laws, Tea Party legislatures inacted in 2012.

 

Tea Party faithful = anti-Tao

 

I followed your link (to a left-wing website) and it mentioned one person who called himself that. Are you suggesting, then, the tea party has less than two "faithful?"

 

I see it as a non sequitur, however, as the thread is supposed (on face value) to be about political ethics for Taoists and Buddhists rather than about your personal issues with Christians.

[zerostao]

*** Moderator Message ***

 

Hello,

 

This is a moderator message ... but more of a reflection than anything. We already have a number of threads in Off Topic about American (or rather US) politics. I realise that what happens in the States affects all of us ... but I for one have a great deal of trouble working out what you guys are talking about.

 

The OP was about political ethics for Taoists and Buddhists ... which I would find interesting. For instance what would a purely Taoist state look like? Any chance discussing this sort of thing instead of Medicare and wotnot ... you've already done the US stuff to death several times.

 

This thread is in General Discussion which is supposed to be about spiritual paths.

 

Just asking.

 

Apech for Mod Team

 

*** Moderator Message ends ***

 

i know , right?! beating the dead horse may seem inutile. who keeps starting these heedless threads?

alot of folks here in usa seem to think that this years election is going to define the future of this country.

imo it isnt such a big deal. i just participate in these threads for the practice of folly and i am aware of it.

others may not be so aware of their folly and waste of good energy.

those who keep repeating the same lies and positions until (they hope) it is accepted as some factual truth

imo demonstrates fascist tendencies and behavior . maybe such is the way of present day american politics.

it is only going to heat up during the summer. sigh.

[Vmarco]

I followed your link (to a left-wing website)

 

Ah! If it's not on Fox Entertainment, it's Left wing propaganda.

http://ralphdeeds.hubpages.com/hub/Sarahs-Birtherday-Tea-Party

[Vmarco]

[joeblast]

Why are you so slightful? The post is clearly about ALL religious subsidies.

 

 

If you are truly concerned with the State of the Nation, and political ethics for Taoists and Buddhists, instead of bulky at the insignificant amount dribbled to those in need of a social safety net, which immediately goes back into the economy, you might consider the $Billions in Corporate Welfare and $Trillions in Religious subsidies.

 

I agree with Ralis,...no honest, clear thinking, Taoist or Buddhist would support the Tea Party agenda.

 

V

Clearly? You are keen to exclusively mention christianity in every single one of your religious tirades, so dont make it out to be like you dont have some ulterior motive.

 

Safety net a dribble? Take a look at the country's finances sometime, dude. Entitlement spending is king. And "goes immediately back into the economy" - that's like saying the food we eat well the energy just goes right back to the tao. Entirely neglecting that the more highly ordered energy (unspent resources) is quasi-'destroyed' and entropied into much lower order energy that simply doesnt have anywhere near the potential. You are saying broccoli, gasoline, and fecal matter have the same energy potential. And I'm fairly certain you wont understand the analogy I just told you.

 

Trillions in religious subsidies...I lol'd

 

Does following the Tao suggest stripping away an already bare-bones safety net for people, which is immediatey pumped back into the economy, or inacting over 40,000 new laws, mostly intrusive, like restricting voting rights, penalizing women who desire an abortion, or denegrating LGBT's?

 

What about the $Billions in Corporate Welfare and $Trillions in Religious subsidies, forced upon middle class tax payers. Everytime you pay a sales tax is because Religious entities are not paying their fair share.

 

I have yet to observe a single instance were Tea Party Christocrats (as most like to be called) have followed the Tao. Not only that, but Tea Party Christocrats get their information from the most non-Tao media outlet in existence,...Fox Entertainment.

I pay sales tax because religious institutions dont pay income tax??? ROFL! So what do you do when your fantasy worldview deviates from reality, how do you reconcile that?

[zerostao]

vmarco, you have alot of wars going on.

no fear.

millions of viscious dog bites each day and trillions in religious subsidies ?

 

self reliance and self responsibility. try it.

[Apech]

vmarco, you have alot of wars going on.

no fear.

millions of viscious dog bites each day and trillions in religious subsidies ?

 

self reliance and self responsibility. try it.

 

Oh no not the dogs again.

[zerostao]

Oh no not the dogs again.

 

loslassen

[Vmarco]

 

 

Safety net a dribble? Take a look at the country's finances sometime, dude. Entitlement spending is king.

 

You Tea Party folks are beyond ever having a clue. Like to see ya take away the EARNED Entitlements of our mostly armed military retirees.

 

The 2011 total US social welfare budget was 12%, all which gets immediately fed back into the economy. Without social welfare, which includes unemployment insurance, the US would have collapsed 3 years ago.

 

Ending the Free-Ride by Religious Organizations would reduce the Budget an estimated 28%,...add to that the over $125 billion every year in corporate welfare, and America's Budget drops to over 30%. Add a Reduced Defense spending to 2004 levels, and the Budget drops to 43%. Add a reduction of the over $320 billion annual salaries of 810,000 active physicians in the United States by 20% (less than half the concessions by the auto workers), and the Budget, through Health Care, drops to 45% of current levels. A further 5% of Health Care costs can be had from more efficient health care services, administrative improvements, improved management of chronic diseases, and reductions in malpractice premiums, by Vulture Capitalists.

 

The REAL question is,...on this Taoist forum,...is why you support Constitutionally illegal government endorsements of religion, choose to allow religions to continue draining Americas wealth through their Free-Ride Tax exemptions, and are against the ending of Corporate Welfare, whose dollars ARE NOT immediately put back into the economy, but put in havens for the wealthy.

 

The bottom line is that you Tea Party people only want wealth redistribution for the wealthy and religious,...paid for on the backs of a shrinking Middle Class.

[joeblast]

"Ending the Free-Ride by Religious Organizations would reduce the Budget an estimated 28%"

 

ya know, if I wanted to come up with a bunch of pie in the sky numbers and blurt 'em out I could do that too. what version of reality did this one came from, because its utterly preposterous. do you know what a budget even is, because collecting any amount of money from religious institutions isnt going to make our government spend a dime less.

 

...the "earned" entitlements? oh, you mean things like the social "security" lie? I'm sure the greeks feel entitled to monies spent and abused by their government also, but that doesnt make its disappearance any less real. social security is a lie and it will not exist by the time I'm eligible to collect, it was set up to blow up, pre-blown thanks to FDR etching the age in stone and congresses since blowing the money up their noses for all the good they did with it.

 

and oh yes, let's simply make the third party insurance model "a little more efficient" and we'll see those magical savings? *facepalm* more competition, retail clinics, in other words, less utilization of the third party health care financing model is the only thing that will bring down costs, not some mythical efficiency gains that could well have been tossed by some farcical aquatic creature from a pond.

 

the question that's repeatedly been put to you, why do you have such a singular focus on christianity? some of us are actually discussing things that might make the world a better place - you're sitting there referring everything back to your nonsensical hatred of christianity. I'm not even a christian, I'm just annoyed by watching you using a log ruler in one instance, metric in another, standard after that, then calling the numbers you read equivalent.

[Brian]

<snip>

...that could well have been tossed by some farcical aquatic creature from a pond.

 

<snip>

 

Like a watery tart throwing a sword?

 

 

 

 

"Dennis, there's some lovely filth down here."

Edited May 31, 2012 by A Seeker

[joeblast]

listen, if I started calling myself an emperor because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me...

 

 

 

really, this thread has run its course - the token "taoist" reference included in an attempt to gain legitimacy for leaving a conservative-bashing thread in the general forum instead of in ot where political garbage belongs.

 

for really, why would a taoist not be "conservative" at least in terms of resource utilization - as taoists we conserve our energies, dont overindulge in sex or drinking or other deleterious behavior - but somehow asserting that a fiscally conservative approach is not taoist somehow flies? I'm not necessarily talking anyone's stereotyped vision of conservative (aka "christian" if you're V) I'm talking simple straightforward "dont screw the pooch" or "shoot yourself in the foot" in terms of resource utilization.

 

but somehow sizing fiscal matters down to a household size is inapplicable...laughable...like when I asked ralis if he was as fiscally reckless with his own finances as he is in terms of policies he advocates for or against - why, a household is nothing like a nation! the microcosm is nothing like the macrocosm - wait, who's taoist?

[Enishi]

 

Ending the Free-Ride by Religious Organizations would reduce the Budget an estimated 28%,...add to that the over $125 billion every year in corporate welfare, and America's Budget drops to over 30%. Add a Reduced Defense spending to 2004 levels, and the Budget drops to 43%. Add a reduction of the over $320 billion annual salaries of 810,000 active physicians in the United States by 20% (less than half the concessions by the auto workers), and the Budget, through Health Care, drops to 45% of current levels. A further 5% of Health Care costs can be had from more efficient health care services, administrative improvements, improved management of chronic diseases, and reductions in malpractice premiums, by Vulture Capitalists.

 

 

This I do agree with in part.

 

The REAL question is,...on this Taoist forum,...is why you support Constitutionally illegal government endorsements of religion, choose to allow religions to continue draining Americas wealth through their Free-Ride Tax exemptions, and are against the ending of Corporate Welfare, whose dollars ARE NOT immediately put back into the economy, but put in havens for the wealthy.

 

In regards to this, where did Joeblast ever say he agrees with government-funded corporate welfare? His views, so far as I've seen, are fiscally conservative/libertarian, not the religion in government agenda.

[Apech]

[ralis]

[Birch]

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8561344-the-art-of-not-being-governed

[Vmarco]

For those who mistakenly view this thread as political, it is not. It is about honesty and dishonesty. Only the honest,...those who can recognize the false as the false,...who understand that peeing in the Atlantic, or who alter the subject because the truth disturbs them,...like someome responding to the EARNED Entitlements of military retirees as "the social "security" lie", are asleep to the point that any awakening in this lifetime is void.

 

Awakening only arises through being true. An ability to see the false as the false.

 

Of course everyone is entitled to their views,...but some views are so far from fundamental Taoist or Buddhist understanding, like those of Tea Party Conservatives, whose hateful, Christocratic agenda are largely responsible for many of the over 40,000 intrusive laws enacted in 2012.

 

Many may claim some connection with Taoism or Buddhism,...but until honesty is embraced, they haven't taken the first step towards understanding Taoism or Buddhism.

 

All Tea Party Conservatives are dishonest by the very nature that they support the lies, fascist views, reactionary advocacy of the Tea Party agenda.

 

All lies can be reduced to truth,...Tea Party Conservatives don't want to know the truth. They do not like having their Fox media-ted version of reality challenged. For them, that reality, those lies, takes precedence over the honesty needed to integrate Taoism and Buddhism,...like the politicians they vote for, who put their faith-based agendas before their Oath to the Constitution.

 

No one can awaken without honesty.

 

V

Edited June 1, 2012 by Vmarco

[Vmarco]

Thanks to Joeblast's trolling, this thread has been completely derailed! Joeblast has contributed nothing of value to this thread. Given that he is a paid member, he seems to be given much more latitude than non paying members.

 

I disagree. MrBlast has clearly shown what a Taoist or Buddhist is not. His dishonesty is so deeply engrained, perhaps others will recognize what the Tao is not.

 

To understand what is true, one must be able to recognize what is false. MrBlast shows the contrast between false and honest.

 

V