Mentally recoiling from hypnogogic imagery

[onebir]

Whenever I've had sleep paralysis its usually when I was sleeping on my back on a couch and I'd see this enormous black form with like a large wing span looming over me sucking the (fear) energy out of me...I definitely recoiled from that.. then later on I read about Carlos Castaneda's "Flyer's" and the description he gives of these interdimensional entities seems to match up with what I've experienced.

 

In my hypnogogic experiences un-desirable images are karmic traces of negative energy surfacing from the shadow of the soul, the energy vibration invoking a corresponding image unto the mind...do not entertain this image, this thought, this energy..merely observe it from the window of emptiness, and watch it dissolve back into emptiness from whence it came as myriad manifestation of the 10,000 things/desires.. energetic/subconscious aversions that are being free'd up/released being surfaced to the conscious mind..

The sleep paralysis was scary, but I felt like I 'saw it off' & there quite a few accounts of similar experiences.

 

Really it was the bizarre hypnogogic images I wanted to discuss here. These weren't obviously undesirable about their content (a writhing multicoloured fractal & a sea of moving cartoonish faces).

 

I think what shocked me about these was their psychedelic quality (bright, moving, stretching to infinity); most of my hypnogogic images are fairly hazy & dark. That just "didn't seem right".

 

Perhaps I just need to get used to the idea that I might occasionally get a pre-sleep acid(-free) trip...

[idiot_stimpy]

The only thing I can think of being jolted awake after being on the borderline between sleep and wakefullness, is by a flash of white light. This has happened a few times. Its like a flash of lightning in a completely dark room.

Edited May 22, 2012 by jconnar

[onebir]

The only thing I can think of being jolted awake after being on the borderline between sleep and wakefullness, is by a flash of white light. This has happened a few times. Its like a flash of lightning in a completely dark room.

Interesting. I don't think I'm at the white light stage ;-)

 

EDIT: thinking about why I assumed seeing a white light is 'more advanced' than seeing psychedelic imagery, I realised I was thinking about the Shulgin Scale

 

From Plus Two: "you still have some choice as to whether you will accept the adventure".

 

So I guess my reaction made it a Plus Two (minus) trip ;-)

Edited May 23, 2012 by onebir

[onebir]

I've been doing dantian meditation for about a week now. Last night I slept badly, and once again got jolted awake when psychedelic imagery started emerging (a kind of fractal mountain range, looked like it was generated by very out of date technology ).

 

It was much less shocking, I went back to sleep and was able to go through it into what I think was a lucid dream. (I say 'I think' because I don't recall actually thinking or realising it was a dream. However, I don't remember 'losing consciousness' as I was falling asleep. So I think there was some continuity of waking consciousness right into the dream, and the reason I didn't realise or think 'this is a dream' was simply that I already knew...)

 

In the dream, I was reading a book filled with paintings: wild, moving, abstract art. And listening to beautiful synchronised music.

 

I can't remember the last time I looked at an art book (years ago at least) & for the most part I find music annoying. So I guess this was my mind's workaround for the 'shock of the psychedelic hypnagogic': literally 'framing' it as something to be admired without getting scared or otherwise involved. (Now why didn't I think of that... )

Edited May 29, 2012 by onebir

[onebir]

I have had similar experiences. The imagery wasn't even that shocking, it simply came on so suddenly, and as soon as I reacted to it, it disappeared. It would come back shortly, but the cycle would repeat.

I think a significant amount of "surrender" is useful with this. I tried to relax into the imagery (a woven basket spinning like a gyroscope), yet the experience dissipates. Hypnogogia was a fascination of mine, but recently I've been focusing more on dream yoga and lucidity in waking life, and eventually in the dreams of sleep. OBE seem truly fascinating, as I'm sure one would have to go through hypnogogia yet remain conscious until their body is asleep and they can exit it.

This does sound very very similar!

 

I don't remember it cycling - and I'm glad it didn't because I think that could've been quite stressful!

[Owledge]

I've been doing dantian meditation for about a week now. Last night I slept badly, and once again got jolted awake when psychedelic imagery started emerging (a kind of fractal mountain range, looked like it was generated by very out of date technology ).

Same night/day I had a dream that ended with me going to sleep in the dream and then a woman idly staring at me, like looking through me, and she made very weird eye movements, and then my vision unfocused (interesting that this can happen in a dream) and her eyes became one and a deep, eerie chanting voice began, and when I tried to focus, her eyes drifted apart again, and then with a slight flockering my whole vision turned grey and I heard myself make panicked noise and struggled to wake up into waking perception. After that, my crown/third eye region felt like during an ayahuasca trip.

 

I didn't have a nightmare for many years, but this felt like one. Whatever initiated this - probably not a good idea to try and break through barriers like that during sleep.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Owledge

[onebir]

Same night/day...

You mean 28th May?

 

I didn't have a nightmare for many years, but this felt like one. Whatever initiated this - probably not a good idea to try and break through barriers like that during sleep.

It can be a bit disturbing...

 

I shifted to the dantian meditation based on astralc's dantian observations & suggestions that I'd been concentrating too high up - in the hope of taming (or even eliminating) these phenomena...

[Mark Foote]

 

I shifted to the dantian meditation based on astralc's dantian observations & suggestions that I'd been concentrating too high up - in the hope of taming (or even eliminating) these phenomena...

 

 

I was going to suggest that it might be related to your habitual focus on the upper lip; however, I have no idea why that would result in the imagery you mention.

 

I never understood the notion of placing the mind in the dantian, wasn't something I could make work for me, even though I did practice judo for a number of years and did a lot of sitting in the half-lotus. What I found out was, the mind at the dantian does happen, sometimes consistently, but I can't make that the subject of my practice. Here's a description of my practice, which I find especially useful in getting back to sleep; also how someone on Tao Bums was able to make use of "my" practice to get back to sleep in the early morning hours:

 

"The idea is to follow the sense of location in the occurrence of consciousness.

 

I was writing on Apech's "Myth of the Eight Hour Sleep" thread, and I mentioned my practice. Humbleone took me up on it, and after a couple of questions (which are on the thread starting about page 2), he wrote this:

 

'I woke up at 4:30AM, after a quick drink of water. returned to bed and tried your practice.

 

I hope I did it correctly, I was somewhat surprized that my mind moved around quite a bit. not fast, but in slow motion the awareness would shift, from left cheek to right side of torso etc. The end result was a light sleep state, but I was glued to the bed and then woke up exactly at 6AM, feeling refreshed like I had a complete 8 hours of sleep.'

 

Humbleone wrote me that he succeeded in getting back to sleep 3 nights in a row, then 7 nights in a row, then he tried it in the day time and had a good result there too."

 

A more complete description of the practice under the title "waking up and falling asleep" is here.

 

As I said, sometimes my mind does go to the dantian and more or less stay there, but the trick for me is to follow the mind; I realize the sense of location that I have as consciousness takes place, and I allow the witness of my own feelings to enter into the "where" of consciousness. That's basically it.

 

Astralc, your experiences are amazing, and the jerk from the dantian is clearly significant. I have read "Far Journeys", and I know that Monroe encountered a "realm of hungry ghosts" as it were, right when he left his body. If I recall correctly he said that he learned to just bore on through, even though it seemed like the ghosts or whatever were clutching at him.

 

One of the three worlds Monroe ended up in involved a higher power or deity that came by every now and then, and everyone had to lie down so that the deity could walk across their stomachs- maybe that was really dantians? Fascinating imagery.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Mark Foote

[onebir]

I was going to suggest that it might be related to your habitual focus on the upper lip; however, I have no idea why that would result in the imagery you mention.

Funny thing is, I think vipassana uses that point precisely because it's unlikely to cause weirdness. At one vipassana course I did a student mentioned to the teacher that sensations in his third eye were tending to draw his attention up to it, and she told him to bring it back down.

 

 

I never understood the notion of placing the mind in the dantian, wasn't something I could make work for me, even though I did practice judo for a number of years and did a lot of sitting in the half-lotus. What I found out was, the mind at the dantian does happen, sometimes consistently, but I can't make that the subject of my practice.

It's not the easiest spot to focus on. It helps to have pants with an elasticated waistband (won't find that in the meditation manuals ) and/ a sense of the pulse in the abdomen (which I now discover is a symptom of 'Abdominal Aortic Aneurysm'. :s Thanks google, you've made my day...)

 

 

I hope I did it correctly, I was somewhat surprized that my mind moved around quite a bit. not fast, but in slow motion the awareness would shift, from left cheek to right side of torso etc. The end result was a light sleep state, but I was glued to the bed and then woke up exactly at 6AM, feeling refreshed like I had a complete 8 hours of sleep.'

...

A more complete description of the practice under the title "waking up and falling asleep" is here.

OK - so it's following where the mind happens to be aware of the body, but not trying to focus on a particular point? That's also a vipassana going to sleep practice - which I haven't been doing. Perhaps there's a reason they recommend it!

 

One of the three worlds Monroe ended up in involved a higher power or deity that came by every now and then, and everyone had to lie down so that the deity could walk across their stomachs- maybe that was really dantians? Fascinating imagery.

Sounds quite funny - but perhaps it wasn't in the context of the experience?

[Mark Foote]

 

OK - so it's following where the mind happens to be aware of the body, but not trying to focus on a particular point? That's also a vipassana going to sleep practice - which I haven't been doing. Perhaps there's a reason they recommend it!

 

 

You focus awareness on awareness- where is awareness located. Awareness happens from moment to moment and the location can shift. I recommend that you try this when you are lying down ready for sleep, as I think most of us are accustomed to letting go of consciousness at that time. With luck, right before you fall asleep you will have a sense of consciousness occurring now here, now there. It's not like a continuum, more like here and then there without movement in between. The firefly of consciousness, as it were, 'cause we only see it when it's lit.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Mark Foote

[astralc]

Mark, onebir,

 

the meditation of coming back to location that you describe Mark is actually so darn simple that one could easily discount it, but it works, and I like it as one technique I can use when I wake up in the middle of the night, thanks.

 

The dan tien meditation as both have said, is not an easy one, onebir, your idea of elastic sided pants is a classic, what I do is place my hands over the navel and at times I tickle my navel to get the sensations going, it works nicely too.

 

I know everyone says the dan tien is located 2 or 3 fingers below the nave, but I like to use the navel as its location because it is easy to stimulate to awakefulness. Its also an easy analogy to 'breathe' in and out of, like a lower nose. It also tingles nicer...

 

Having said that, the dan tien is actually, from my experience, just below the navel, resting on its lower edge. When I first tried to centre my mind there I could, and what an amazing sense of awareness it gave. Like having your head in your navel. But these days I go there and breath, then I drift off, not quite getting my head in my navel though. I like to do my tai chi with the dan tien radiating like a lighthouse, thats a nice feeling too.

 

As for the astral stuff, I have seen quite a few ghosts, but never have I had them come after me. I did once see my old friend and father with a group of others behind them, they were all walking towards me. This was soon after falling asleep one night after my old friend had died, I think about a week after he had died.

 

I freaked out, I remember saying to myself, "Jesus! They are all dead!" But as they got closer I just calmed right down, no idea why though, I just lifted out of my body and we had a good chat. My old friend was worried about my health and stress levels, kept telling me to take it easy, while my father stood behind him and didn't say anything, just was there. It was during my uni days and at exam time and I was working my guts out doing 3 jobs. So, yes, my old mate was right, I needed to take it easy, but couldn't at the time.

 

So, no bad ghosts for me so far, just those spooky black blobs

[astralc]

Just meditated on dan tien just now at work, found myself inside a balloon, rubbery and blue and I was thinking to myself in there, "I can't stay here, my patients won't be able to talk to me." I was a little worried for a moment, like I was trapped there, then I popped back to my body and dan tien. When I got up I looked down and saw my shirt, it was just the same blue as the balloon. Weird me, but I just love my dan tien and what it does for me, now I can't wait til tomorrow lunch time to try it again

[Mark Foote]

 

the meditation of coming back to location that you describe Mark is actually so darn simple that one could easily discount it, but it works, and I like it as one technique I can use when I wake up in the middle of the night, thanks.

.

.

.

So, no bad ghosts for me so far, just those spooky black blobs

 

The practice is indeed darn simple once a person witnesses the location of consciousness shifting, as just before sleep.

 

I think the same practice is at the heart of seated meditation. Here's Dogen, the founder of Soto Zen:

 

"...learn to take the backward step that

turns the light and shines it inward."

(from the Fukanzazengi, by Dogen, here)

 

Usually meditation is associated with something a person does, but I think anyone who tries seated meditation will find that the ability to feel in the posture relies on the activity as consciousness takes place in response to the posture. The practice is exactly "coming back to location", yet as an aspect of waking up and falling asleep, as a catalyst of the free occurrence of consciousness in space.

 

I'm still thinking about the blobs, checking google and it looks like there are some other reports of people seeing black blobs out of the corner of their eyes. Someone described seeing sea-urchin like little black shapes out of the corners of their eyes, and later the dark, shadow-like outline of a person.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Mark Foote

[astralc]

Mark, the blobs were just that, black blobs, about the size of a small child only rounder. Slightly cute and innocent looking at first glance, but lightening fast.