square form and round form in Tai chi chuan

[tumoessence]

I thought all of you might enjoy this video.

Billclassical tai chi

[thaddeus]

I thought all of you might enjoy this video.

Billclassical tai chi

Doesn't this belong in the robot thread???

all kidding aside, the wu style is actually a pretty good style to learn taichi from. The minimal arm motions let's one really focus on the spirals. That's one drawback to chen style, because although chen style has all the necessary ingredients, I think some practitioners move too much and lose the silk reeling power. They try to make the form look pretty and force the circles. The problem with Wu, is that (imnsho) it's an advanced form and it takes time to get there. If you practice to look like that outright, then you may be a young person, but you will move and look like an old man (same for the chen man ching stuff out there). We don't really see examples of young robust Wu stylists often as role models. Also without guando (big knife) training (and i'm fairly certain Wu doesn't have that) I don't believe the style is complete. It will miss a critical nuance of dantian rotation that is missing in alot of the chen derivatives. The dantian rotation is three dimensional and should move with ease in all directions. Alot of Yang and Wu is two dimensional and flat.

T

[Taiji Bum]

Interesting....

[tumoessence]

Doesn't this belong in the robot thread???

all kidding aside, the wu style is actually a pretty good style to learn taichi from. The minimal arm motions let's one really focus on the spirals. That's one drawback to chen style, because although chen style has all the necessary ingredients, I think some practitioners move too much and lose the silk reeling power. They try to make the form look pretty and force the circles. The problem with Wu, is that (imnsho) it's an advanced form and it takes time to get there. If you practice to look like that outright, then you may be a young person, but you will move and look like an old man (same for the chen man ching stuff out there). We don't really see examples of young robust Wu stylists often as role models. Also without guando (big knife) training (and i'm fairly certain Wu doesn't have that) I don't believe the style is complete. It will miss a critical nuance of dantian rotation that is missing in alot of the chen derivatives. The dantian rotation is three dimensional and should move with ease in all directions. Alot of Yang and Wu is two dimensional and flat.

T

Thaddeus,

There are about four different schools of Wu. I had the privelage of meeting Dr Wen Zee in Tucson and he said that his favorite was the broadsword which I understand as the large knife. He was a student of the Shanghai Wu, Wu's son in law, Ma liang.

[thaddeus]

Thaddeus,

There are about four different schools of Wu. I had the privelage of meeting Dr Wen Zee in Tucson and he said that his favorite was the broadsword which I understand as the large knife. He was a student of the Shanghai Wu, Wu's son in law, Ma liang.

This the guando:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guan_dao

 

It's pretty heavy and to wield it, you need a very developed dantian and kwa. Training with the guando will force proper body mechanics or you get hurt. I've never seen a wu or yang stylist train with this weapon, so their movements tend to be linear and horizontal. Another good training weapon is the long pole. I don't mean a spear without the metal tip, it's usually much thicker and heavier. I've seen some variants of Yang use this also, but not in the Wu stuff I've seen. I could be wrong, so take it with a grain of salt, i'm just saying I haven't seen it.

T

[tumoessence]

This the guando:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guan_dao

 

It's pretty heavy and to wield it, you need a very developed dantian and kwa. Training with the guando will force proper body mechanics or you get hurt. I've never seen a wu or yang stylist train with this weapon, so their movements tend to be linear and horizontal. Another good training weapon is the long pole. I don't mean a spear without the metal tip, it's usually much thicker and heavier. I've seen some variants of Yang use this also, but not in the Wu stuff I've seen. I could be wrong, so take it with a grain of salt, i'm just saying I haven't seen it.

T

Thaddeus,

 

You're right. I was thinking of the sabre, the curved sword that I have often heard of named as a large knife.

I'd be interested to see your take on the Internal Discipline page at classical tai chi. I have been practicing this form for a few years now, and before that Yang style for twenty five. I have never seen anything like this other than Master Hwa's approach. In Master Hwa's classical tai chi the whole torso gets very articulated rotational development. Those Wu style spirals are driven deep into the core musculature.

Ba gua uses this guando doesn't it?

[Spectrum]

I wonder if that's what the classics meant when they talk about the square within the circle and the circle within the square. heh That's like pop-locking.

 

 

"The dantian rotation is three dimensional and should move with ease in all directions."

 

This is the truth. 3 axis minimum to even exist. So many stylists isolate their movemens to one place. This simply doesnt move the body through it's lovingly ingrained spirals.

Edited November 17, 2006 by Spectrum

[thaddeus]

Thaddeus,

 

You're right. I was thinking of the sabre, the curved sword that I have often heard of named as a large knife.

I'd be interested to see your take on the Internal Discipline page at classical tai chi. I have been practicing this form for a few years now, and before that Yang style for twenty five. I have never seen anything like this other than Master Hwa's approach. In Master Hwa's classical tai chi the whole torso gets very articulated rotational development. Those Wu style spirals are driven deep into the core musculature.

Ba gua uses this guando doesn't it?

It's hard to comment on the video. There isn't anything obviously wrong with what is said. After a certain point, one can't 'see' anymore. You have to feel the person. I've seen some footage of him and have a few things to say. First, I know he is demonstrating, so certain things have to be exaggerated and certain things have to be left out. There are certain things regarding the stepping and general kwa movement that I'm in no position to say is 'wrong', it's just very different from what I've been exposed to in Chen Style. What do you mean by articulated rotational development?

On Bagua and guando..I'm not sure. I would *guess* that if it's used, it's a later add on. I think guando is used on horseback in the battlefields and I believe there is some historical support for the chen family to be involved with that..i'm not so sure the roots of bagua involve battlefield fighting..but i'm not really sure.

T

[tumoessence]

It's hard to comment on the video. There isn't anything obviously wrong with what is said. After a certain point, one can't 'see' anymore. You have to feel the person. I've seen some footage of him and have a few things to say. First, I know he is demonstrating, so certain things have to be exaggerated and certain things have to be left out. There are certain things regarding the stepping and general kwa movement that I'm in no position to say is 'wrong', it's just very different from what I've been exposed to in Chen Style. What do you mean by articulated rotational development?

On Bagua and guando..I'm not sure. I would *guess* that if it's used, it's a later add on. I think guando is used on horseback in the battlefields and I believe there is some historical support for the chen family to be involved with that..i'm not so sure the roots of bagua involve battlefield fighting..but i'm not really sure.

T

Thaddeus

 

About the articulation of the dan tien area I think this video of Master Hwa might help better than my verbal explanation.

Happy thanksgiving everyone. My favorite holiday!!!!!!!!!!!1

[thaddeus]

Thaddeus

 

About the articulation of the dan tien area I think this video of Master Hwa might help better than my verbal explanation.

Happy thanksgiving everyone. My favorite holiday!!!!!!!!!!!1

I see what you mean. That 'squeezing' of the torso is often missed because it's subtle. It's good that he exaggerates it to show what's really going on.

If he's ever around, I would take a workshop with him. Breaking up the dantian into quadrants is an interesting idea I'll play around with. Thanks!

T