Need serious help please, kundalini problems

[gatito]

Gatito: thx for the link. I will look in to it. I tried something similar in the past with a hypnosis cd but it didn't work but hey I got nothing to lose.

 

Mark : do you focus awareness on where you are in the body, like where your arms, legs are, or do u focus on where you are in physical space outside of you, like your bed or room ? The post above said cheek to torso...is there an order to this ? Thanks.

 

Hey guys I appreciate all the responses. I am working with Seth ananda and I have a daily routine going. I will post again in some weeks and let you all know how things are running, but I'm sticking around in the meantime. Later !

 

 

...

Edited July 17, 2015 by gatito

[Mark Foote]

 

Mark : do you focus awareness on where you are in the body, like where your arms, legs are, or do u focus on where you are in physical space outside of you, like your bed or room ? The post above said cheek to torso...is there an order to this ? Thanks.

 

 

hey Mike,

 

You focus awareness on awareness- where is awareness located. Awareness happens from moment to moment and the location can shift. I recommend that you try this when you are lying down ready for sleep, as I think most of us are accustomed to letting go of consciousness at that time. With luck, right before you fall asleep you will have a sense of consciousness occurring now here, now there. It's not like a continuum, more like here and then there without movement in between.

 

 

hey K., I'm so glad I tried to explain it again! It has really been useful to me.

[Mark Foote]

Here's something I wrote this morning to another Tao Bum'er, in response to a question about the "waking up" part of "waking up and falling asleep"- I'm hoping this explanation will be useful to myself and others (yes, I don't get things the first time around either):

 

 

'When I'm falling asleep, I generally have a few moments where my mind seems to be shifting around in my body, right before I drop off. This is probably more apparent when I've had enough sleep so that I'm lying there in bed wondering if I'm going to get to sleep, what a luxury that is!

 

Because I know that I have to let go of any direction of mind in order to fall asleep, I tend to turn my attention to where my thoughts just took place, to where my awareness is in my body. That's when maybe I'll experience my consciousness taking place somewhere other than between my ears. This is not usually a continuous thing, but a now here, now there, in my side, in my leg, in my back thing. And then I'm out like a light.

 

I occasionally come to the same experience in the daytime, which is why I think it's about waking up as well as falling asleep. There's a sensation of my balance being dependent on where my consciousness is taking place, in an upright posture.

 

I read about hypnic jerk phenomena the other day, that's where the muscles in the arms or legs contract just as a person is dropping off to sleep, and they wake up. The article I read said about 70% of the people experience this regularly, and they hypothesized that the mind feels the loss of motor ability but doesn't recognize that it's connected with sleep, and so tries to regain motor ability with a signal to the muscles. I guess what I'm talking about is connected with that same shut-off of motor ability, and the trick is to perceive consciousness taking place without motor ability.'

[ShaktiMama]

Been very busy IRL so I can only come through rarely. I have lightly read over this whole thread.

 

Good on you, Mike! These are all wonderful signs of kundalini, she's a stirring things up in you. I must say Seth Ananda and Hundun would get my best recommendations if you wish to follow with them. (And Seth is absolutely right about what to talk about and what not to talk about. He has my whole hearted support on that.) I can see your energy flaring up in your pelvic bowl from here. Just need to get it smoothed out which using shaking whether it's the free styling form a la Brad Keeney or your run of the mill shaking qi gong practice both will be very beneficial. I use both. Also, an actual physical presence of a teacher who can put their hand on your shoulder and speak kind words to you of encouragement is irreplaceable. Always, when working with and cultivating internal energy keep your tongue up at the roof of your mouth behind the teeth. This connects the governor and conception energy channels (meridians) in the body and keeps one from getting "chi head," or chi stagnation in the skull. It helps the energy keep circulating. It's a must must must do. No excuses.

 

A little of my own introduction...my kundalini started to awaken in 1991 and went full blown awakened in an extremely dramatic fashion all the way in 97. I have been teaching kundalini awakening, the process and how to thrive with it probably since 2000. I am one of the senior Kundalini Awakening Process instructors.I have taught in Canada, the US, and the UK on the kundalini awakening process by myself and with the Director of the Kundalini Awakening Process, Santiago Dobles. I also use to teach with Dr. Glenn Morris who was the originator of the process and some Bums are very familiar with his books. I also run a support group on yahoo for people who need help with their kundalini process. I have been running it since 2003. You are welcome and anyone else to come sit with us and tell your story. We have people from all different traditions and belief systems, even engineers and hard core scientists among our membership. The atmosphere is more family like and supportive. We have in common kundalini and to be supportive of each other no matter what our backgrounds are. We have rank newbies and very mature practitioners. We have tantric gurus, martial arts masters, and a doctor of medical qigong among our tribe. We also have a few Bums on the list. People get zapped with kundalini just from being present in the group or so members have told me. http://health.groups...SupportNetwork/

 

Although some people who are bipolar have kundalini awakening (I used to have a boyfriend who was so) bipolar is not kundalini awakening. I am not anti-meds. If you need them take them but look for away to get off them eventually if you can.

 

The insomnia and agitation comes because kundalini kicks the adrenal glands into high gear and your sympathetic nervous system is going into overdrive. It is going into a sustained flight or fright state. Left unaddressed for too long and you will have some full on PTSD in the making. You also could be having panic attacks. Drink water because the tendency to become dehydrated and overheated is real. Also eat meat. In my opinion and experience, you need to feed the kundalini fire or it burns you instead.

 

So anything that you know of that you do that activates the SNS, don't do. Do what activates the parasympathetic system instead. So for the PNS that is being in community,prayer, meditation, volunteer work, anything that helps with oxytocin release (like orgasm and cuddling) those kind of activities. If you are feeling over stimulated do something to burn off the adrenaline secretion.

Just as an FYI, crazy intense running, especially the long distance type, is a meditational activity. It can be a trigger.

 

In short, with knowledgeable and supportive guidance this can be a blissful and exquisite experience for you.

 

Many blessings upon you,

Susan

 

 

**** quote removed at original poster's request ****

Edited June 22, 2012 by Apech
mod action following user request

[Informer]

Maybe they should have kept guns and bombs and landmines and stuff a secret. We def wouldn't be able to deal with people running around casting fireballs and chain lightning or spontaneously combusting.

 

If someone wants power to cause harm, there are much easier ways available to them then learning spiritual practices.

 

Secrets are common for cults because:

 

 

Cults use sophisticated mind control and recruitment techniques that have been refined over time. Beware of thinking that you are immune from cult involvement, the cults have millions of members around the world who once thought they were immune, and still don't know they are in a cult!

 

Religious

Cults that use a belief system as their base are very common. Their belief system could be standard Christianity, Hinduism, Islam or any other of the world religions, or they may have invented their own belief system. What makes them a cult is the fact that they use mind control, not what they believe.

 

Deception:

 

A cult needs to recruit and operate using deception. Why?

Because if people knew their true practices and beliefs beforehand then they would not join. A cult needs to hide the truth from you until they think you are ready to accept it.

 

 

Exclusivism:

 

However cult leaders will tell you can only be "saved" (or can only be successful) in their organization alone. No other organization has the truth, all others miss the mark. So it is not the belief system that decides your future, but it the belief system AND your membership with that particular group.

 

Information Control:

 

Those who control the information control the person. In a mind control cult any information from outside the cult is considered evil, especially if it is opposing the cult. Members are told not to read it or believe it.

 

Pressure Selling:

 

One of the most common forms of commercial cults is the pressure selling organization. These groups ostensibly make money by selling goods via their sales organization, but in reality they make their money by selling goods and motivational materials to their sales organization. Using mind control they seek to enlarge and maintain their sales force, and hence their profits.

 

Here are some key warning signs to watch out for…

 

Deception. No valid business needs to use deception.

 

Super hyped meetings, books, tapes, videos, leaflets, products.

 

Use of Mind control, refer to the earlier "Mind Control" section.

 

http://www.howcultswork.com/

 

 

I think that anyone can say to anyone else that they have a secret. So what is the purpose of telling one you have a secret other than to have something to dangle over their head to sell them on later?

 

*sarcasm*

"I have a really powerful secret, but I'm not going to tell you the secret, I'm just telling you I have one so you know how important and trustworthy I am" ROFLMAO.

 

What is the point in even saying it? I think it would be easier to say "just trust me".

 

I don't know if you are in a cult or not, but there seems to be symptoms of it. How was Kundalini diagnosed again?

Edited June 16, 2012 by Informer

[Informer]

[ShaktiMama]

There are no secrets. Seth, Hundun and I will tell you there are none truly. I have given out "secret" knowledge to my students for years and they can't see it because they aren't ready. Then they come to me after 5 or 10 years after trying other systems and say, "now I understand. My apologies for not listening. It was here all along." There are many secrets dropped throughout Bums but people laugh and deride them and at those who speak when they are shared because the commentators lack understanding. To tell a seeker to step off a tricycle into a Ferrari without any intermediate training is foolish and futile and dangerous and irresponsible of the teachers. Will you lift a 200 pound weight when you can barely lift a weight that weighs 5 pounds?

 

There is knowledge and then there is the acquiring of understanding. TBs often mistake them for the same thing.

 

Here's a secret: Standing stake, practiced diligently for three years under the guidance of a master, will bring enlightenment. There are many, many layered secrets to be uncovered in that one statement that comes with the practice. There are many things that can only come with the face to face presence of a teacher. Learning on line is one thing. Learning in the physical presence of a teacher takes it to a whole different dimension. Don't let anybody tell you it is different. I do both.

 

Knowledge is fast food. Understanding comes from preparation, buying the right ingredients and years of watchful instruction, perfect practice, and study before making the perfect nourishing delightful meal. It is an artistry acquired. Fortunately, one doesn't have to practice for 30 years before that info becomes available like in ancient times but shoveling it out like slop cafeteria style on someone's plate to whomever begs or tries to shame people into giving away "secrets" is not appropriate either.

 

People go into cults because they want to acquire magical powers over their world, feel special, be loved, looking for a daddy replacement, make their ego feel big. There are many reasons.

 

What do you want to do with these Big Secrets you think people are hiding from you? If this makes you so angry and sarcastic it would be best to develop equanimity first before you learn "big secrets". These big secrets can make you into a flaming azzhole because it pushes the ego to the surface in a exponential way. They are supposed to do that. Learning to respond to life with a mature equanimity will facilitate the understanding of Big Secrets.

 

 

S

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe they should have kept guns and bombs and landmines and stuff a secret. We def wouldn't be able to deal with people running around casting fireballs and chain lightning or spontaneously combusting.

 

If someone wants power to cause harm, there are much easier ways available to them then learning spiritual practices.

 

Secrets are common for cults because:

 

 

 

I think that anyone can say to anyone else that they have a secret. So what is the purpose of telling one you have a secret other than to have something to dangle over their head to sell them on later?

 

*sarcasm*

"I have a really powerful secret, but I'm not going to tell you the secret, I'm just telling you I have one so you know how important and trustworthy I am" ROFLMAO.

 

What is the point in even saying it? I think it would be easier to say "just trust me".

 

I don't know if you are in a cult or not, but there seems to be symptoms of it. How was Kundalini diagnosed again?

[Informer]

There is no secret, it is only belief.

 

Truth doesn't need to hide.

 

There is no bicycle or Ferrari, those were the video game.

 

Anyway, I would prefer you to answer my questions as to why one would tell someone they have a secret without any intention of sharing it?

 

Yes, sometimes I do mock beliefs with sarcasm. It is the only way I can find humor in an otherwise gloomy situation.

 

Maybe you can explain this as well: "I can see your energy flaring up in your pelvic bowl from here."

 

Are you doing remote viewing?

[Informer]

 

What do you want to do with these Big Secrets you think people are hiding from you? If this makes you so angry and sarcastic it would be best to develop equanimity first before you learn "big secrets". These big secrets can make you into a flaming azzhole because it pushes the ego to the surface in a exponential way. They are supposed to do that. Learning to respond to life with a mature equanimity will facilitate the understanding of Big Secrets.

 

 

S

 

This is known as "character assassination" or Ad hominem in philosophy, it was also in that cult link.

 

Character Assassination is used to help create the guilt in you. Character Assassination is a type of false reasoning used by people and groups who have no real arguments. The technical name for Character Assassination is "The Ad hominem Fallacy".

 

http://www.howcultswork.com/

 

I don't mock any of you, I mock the beliefs you have.

Edited June 16, 2012 by Informer

[ShaktiMama]

There is no secret, it is only belief.

 

Truth doesn't need to hide.

 

There is no bicycle or Ferrari, those were the video game.

 

Anyway, I would prefer you to answer my questions as to why one would tell someone they have a secret without any intention of sharing it?

 

Yes, sometimes I do mock beliefs with sarcasm. It is the only way I can find humor in an otherwise gloomy situation.

 

Maybe you can explain this as well: "I can see your energy flaring up in your pelvic bowl from here."

 

Are you doing remote viewing?

 

We have no secrets. You are the one accusing us of having secrets and wanting to know secrets. Truth doesn't hide. One must have the eyes and ears to comprehend.

 

There is a bicycle and there is a ferrari. It is an analogy about life. Nursery school kids do poorly in university. They are not specifically developed to handle the mental, physical, emotional, spiritual requirements of being in a university. One cannot do calculus before one learns simple mathematical operations. One cannot play college basketball when one can only roll a ball across the floor. One cannot eat meat before they have learned to drink milk. It is not a fault or a weakness of character. It just is. Teachers know this and will not teach more than one can absorb.

 

Being unable to understand the knowledge given to you is not because it is a secret it is because one is incapable of understanding it without proper preparation and context. You want to go deep, practice deep. You offer nothing to show that you have a type of meaningful practice at all. Displaying an attitude of entitlement is a disease of this times. Work on developing equanimity. That is what others would call a secret. One can't advance very far without equanimity. This is a truth.

 

I gave you already what some define as a secrets in my last two posts. I am not calling them secrets but others will because they have the understanding to see them. The giving of knowledge breeds a hunger for more knowledge. Knowledge is not the answer. What do you plan to do with this "secret" knowledge? Demanding to know because you feel you are entitled or have a right to know is not appropriate and will bring you nothing. It makes you look like a whiny, spoiled child. That is not equanimity.

 

I can see your energy flaring up in your pelvic bowl from here means his k is awake. I can see it from here. I look. I have not practiced remote viewing. This ability is a result of my internal energy cultivation practice. This is a truth.

 

Continuing to demand and justify your right to know anything you want, when you want will not create any traction or credibility with any qualified teacher.

 

This post is filled with "secrets". Because I speak out of 20+ years of experience and thousands and thousands of dollars worth of training hours with master teachers, the words I speak hold secrets. Getting mad or sarcastic with me or any other teacher who says you are not properly prepared is like getting mad at someone because they don't speak your language. It is futile and useless and wastes energy. It is a demand of the ego. Think about if you would want to give something to someone who talks sh*t at you.

 

This is just the way it is with teachers like us. If you feel like you are being manipulated, used, or excluded that's your personal problem that has nothing to do with us. This secret business is a dead issue to me and I have no further need to speak of it.

[gendao]

There are no secrets.

 

Here's a secret: Standing stake, practiced diligently for three years under the guidance of a master, will bring enlightenment. There are many, many layered secrets to be uncovered in that one statement that comes with the practice. There are many things that can only come with the face to face presence of a teacher. Learning on line is one thing. Learning in the physical presence of a teacher takes it to a whole different dimension. Don't let anybody tell you it is different. I do both.

I know that zhan zhuang is traditionally a core, beginning practice in China, with many different schools and methods of it. I've also heard of it leading to various abilities (like yin shen OBEs, etc.), as well as just obviously clearing meridians and building gong. And while it may all look "the same" on the outside, there may be entirely different things going on inside. So, could you kindly expound upon your statement here - and what lineage or variation will allegedly lead to this specific claim? Edited June 16, 2012 by vortex

[RobB]

Shaktimama back in the house!

 

Always a pleasure to read!

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[ShaktiMama]

I know that zhan zhuang is traditionally a core, beginning practice in China, with many different schools and methods of it. I've also heard of it leading to various abilities (like yin shen OBEs, etc.), as well as just obviously clearing meridians and building gong. And while it may all look "the same" on the outside, there may be entirely different things going on inside. So, could you kindly expound upon your statement here - and what lineage or variation will allegedly lead to this specific claim?

 

Hi vortex. I am writing on my mom's kindle and if that isnt a practice to develop equanimity I dont know what else could be.

 

Grand Master Jin Fa of shaolin gong fu retired of Vancouver BC told me of this.

Dr. Glenn Morris validated to me.

Dr. Kevin Menard ying yi master and savate silver gloves champlon confirmed.

Also a good yoga program will do the same per Harsha of Harsha's Satsang on the web. He said this in a group online convo in the early 90s .

Other masters have cofirmed over the years but i remember these easier.

 

As you know there are multiple layers to every movement and postures starting with the three treasures..

 

I can write more when i can access my laptop. This bites on the kindle .

[ShaktiMama]

Shaktimama back in the house!

 

Always a pleasure to read!

 

Cheers

 

 

Rob

 

[Apech]

Hi vortex. I am writing on my mom's kindle and if that isnt a practice to develop equanimity I dont know what else could be.

 

Grand Master Jin Fa of shaolin gong fu retired of Vancouver BC told me of this.

Dr. Glenn Morris validated to me.

Dr. Kevin Menard ying yi master and savate silver gloves champlon confirmed.

Also a good yoga program will do the same per Harsha of Harsha's Satsang on the web. He said this in a group online convo in the early 90s .

Other masters have cofirmed over the years but i remember these easier.

 

As you know there are multiple layers to every movement and postures starting with the three treasures..

 

I can write more when i can access my laptop. This bites on the kindle .

 

Didn't know you could use Kindle for this! Impressed.

[ShaktiMama]

Didn't know you could use Kindle for this! Impressed.

 

This the newest kindle fire. Itz fine for facebook...email...surfing and playing angry birds. That's about it.

 

S

[gendao]

Hi vortex. I am writing on my mom's kindle and if that isnt a practice to develop equanimity I dont know what else could be.

 

Grand Master Jin Fa of shaolin gong fu retired of Vancouver BC told me of this.

Dr. Glenn Morris validated to me.

Dr. Kevin Menard ying yi master and savate silver gloves champlon confirmed.

Also a good yoga program will do the same per Harsha of Harsha's Satsang on the web. He said this in a group online convo in the early 90s .

Other masters have cofirmed over the years but i remember these easier.

 

As you know there are multiple layers to every movement and postures starting with the three treasures..

 

I can write more when i can access my laptop. This bites on the kindle .

Cool, are you referring to Master Zhang Jing Fa?

Grand Master Zhang has the knowledge of a few hundred Arhat standing methods. Every Arhat standing method is named after an Arhat so each one of them is unique.

 

In additional to Arhat stands, Grand Master Zhang knows a few hundred Zuo Chan and Shou Yin methods. Zuo Chan method is a combination of sitting with the legs crossed, bottom of the feet facing in an upward position, and the hands placed in various forms. Shou Yin is practised with various special Mantras and deep concentration.

I presume these "Arhat standing methods" refer to various forms of mabu/zhan zhuang?

 

I would agree that Chinese neigong does seem to revolve around zhan zhuang and jing zuo (standing & sitting meditation)...and numerous variations of those 2 themes.

 

But, aside from any obvious external differences (like arm or foot positions), the difficult part comes in figuring out what you're supposed to be doing differently internally in those different variations. Or which ones you should even be doing to maximize your progress - as there are different variations to better suit different personal constitutions, purposes & levels, from what I gather.. Hence traditionally, a sensitive coach could diagnose and guide you in your own customized training path.

 

Although lacking that, I think you can still advance on your own with even a generic formula (as typically mass-marketed here), it just won't likely be nearly as efficient or fast, though..

Edited June 16, 2012 by vortex

[ShaktiMama]

Cool, are you referring to Master Zhang Jing Fa?I presume these "Arhat standing methods" refer to various forms of mabu/zhan zhuang?

 

I would agree that Chinese neigong does seem to revolve around zhan zhuang and jing zuo (standing & sitting meditation)...and numerous variations of those 2 themes.

 

But, aside from any obvious external differences (like arm or foot positions), the difficult part comes in figuring out what you're supposed to be doing differently internally in those different variations. Or which ones you should even be doing to maximize your progress - as there are different variations to better suit different personal constitutions, purposes & levels, from what I gather.. Hence traditionally, a sensitive coach could diagnose and guide you in your own customized training path.

 

Although lacking that, I think you can still advance on your own with even a generic formula (as typically mass-marketed here), it just won't likely be as nearly efficient or fast, though..

 

Yes, that is Grand Master Jin in the pic. Wonderful, sweet man from Shanghai. A walking chi beast who could knock a person over with a flick of a finger. He has written a book. It's very thick. I think it is in Cantonese. His english is pretty bad. It's also like $500 but from what I hear is filled with illustrations. He had shown me some mudras for protection and bliss. He has a few apprentices floating around. One of my students was being groomed to be his heir to his lineage but for some reasons it did not work out.

 

He once told Glenn and I that our students were very advanced. He thought it was because we were not Chinese. LOL. He didn't realize it was from KAP practice and teaching. His comment was that our students picked up things easily. He was able to comment on this because all three of us team taught a kundalini-qigong intensive over a weekend a ways back. Jin Fa is a showman. We called him the Chinese James Brown. He just needed a cape to make the picture complete.

 

Master Jin was very practical and down to earth. He wanted his students to progress to shaking from their standing process as soon as possible. The mind gets in the way of a good practice. He thought it very important that students also develop a sensitivity to feeling chi as a foundation. So do I and I think it is good to start with shaking as well as standing.

 

So Jin Fa, Glenn and I, and other teachers believe a teacher in close proximity is real key. One must always be doing energy transfers into the student. This helps speed up the process, the assimilation of energy, and deepens understanding. It also gets the students into a healthier state of being. It is not just about form correction although I am surprised by how many advance practitioners don't get their arms rounded at the arm pits. Like holding a ball there. It keeps the chi flow from being cut off to the fingers.

 

Since I can't be speaking from experience for I have never held one position for practice for three years in my life I can speak from observation and talking with others and studying.

 

The truth is really doing anything with deep awareness will bring enlightenment. From my perspective, enlightenment has a biological component. It is not just mental. It must involve all of us.

 

Do standing stake and be aware of the inner process happening with the three treasures of man: jing, chi, and shen. We want to build jing to convert to chi that then transforms to shen. It doesn't stop there but it is a start. Kundalini will rapidly accelerate these processes.

We want to work with the lesser Kan and Li, the middle Kan and Li, the Upper or greater Kan and Li in the three Dantiens. I have also heard allusions to the Supreme Kan and Li. In plain terms we are talking about an internal alchemy process that mixes fire and water to create steam.

 

 

We discussed this some on the Bums last year: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/19076-indian-vs-chinese-metaphysics/page__st__16

 

Standing stake is pretty generic but so powerful. I would progress through the three levels. It's hard not to focus on the jing aspect if one is practicing correctly because that comes up in your face right away. We found out how really weak we are quickly. That is not to say the other two treasures don't come up when we are focusing on the jing development.

 

The three year plan is slower of course but can be more stable for a lot of people. My kundalini awakening was very dramatic and volatile. Dr. Menard told me if I had been his student and that happened he would have lost face because there was so much lack of control. But, to me, kundalini awakening is a messy and often out of control process. It can be hell for control freaks. LOL! Dr. Menard told me three years was important to the Chinese because they don't do crazy. It is thought that less than three years is unhealthy and unstable. This is a cultural bias and does not mean that it can't be different. It is different.

 

To tell you any special refinements would be not so helpful because that is where face to face comes in. Relax, breathe, and let the energy move you and move through your body can be a lifetime practice but these are VERY important.

 

Hope that helps some,

Susan

 

PS. Once Master Jin and I were teaching at an upstate NY Buddhist retreat center. We met in NYC and happened to go the 911 site. He sat down by the big hole (this was 2006) and starting chanting mantras/prayers with his prayer beads and doing mudras. It was like a hole opened up in the earth and all the souls who were lost in the ground started rising like radiant beams of light up into the sky. It was amazing to watch and to see this little man sitting and rocking back and forth as he was praying while all the people around him rushed about their business.

[Mark Foote]

 

The truth is really doing anything with deep awareness will bring enlightenment. From my perspective, enlightenment has a biological component. It is not just mental. It must involve all of us.

 

PS. Once Master Jin and I were teaching at an upstate NY Buddhist retreat center. We met in NYC and happened to go the 911 site. He sat down by the big hole (this was 2006) and starting chanting mantras/prayers with his prayer beads and doing mudras. It was like a hole opened up in the earth and all the souls who were lost in the ground started rising like radiant beams of light up into the sky. It was amazing to watch and to see this little man sitting and rocking back and forth as he was praying while all the people around him rushed about their business.

 

Thanks, ShaktiMama, for the insights into teaching methods and the story of the healing at the 911 site.

 

I always enjoy Tao Bums for the sincerity of the contributions, even though sometimes the feathers get ruffled a little, and the inspiration I feel as I learn to sit the lotus. Not so easy to change and be open, here's a favorite picture that I think Apech turned me on to, the queen and the goddess:

 

 

would you believe, I don't think I ever noticed the snake wound in among the horns?

Edited June 17, 2012 by Mark Foote

[Apech]

Thanks, ShaktiMama, for the insights into teaching methods and the story of the healing at the 911 site.

 

I always enjoy Tao Bums for the sincerity of the contributions, even though sometimes the feathers get ruffled a little, and the inspiration I feel as I learn to sit the lotus. Not so easy to change and be open, here's a favorite picture that I think Apech turned me on to, the queen and the goddess:

 

 

would you believe, I don't think I ever noticed the snake wound in among the horns?

 

Hey Mark,

 

I found this on Ancient Egyptians and cerebro-spinal fluid rhythm ... thought you might find it interesting.

 

 

 

The Ancient Egyptians were adept at treating head injuries. This is an extract from one of their medical payrii.

 

The Edwin Smith papyrus is dated to about 1550 BC but is a copy of an older document with annotations … some Egyptologists suggest an Old Kingdom origin to the text which would put it about 1000 years earlier, say 2500 BC in the pyramid building era.

 

"If you examine a man [having] a gaping wound in his head, reaching the bone, smashing his skull and breaking open his brain (lit. the viscera (ais) of his skull), you should feel (palpate) his wound. You find that smash which is in his skull [like the corrugations which appear on [molten] copper in the crucible, and something therein throbs and flutters under you fingers like the weak pulse in the crown of the head of a child when it has not become whole (fontanelle)"

 

Case 6 Edwin Smith Papyrus

 

The Egyptians also recognised that the brain was covered with a fibrous membrane which they called the 'netnet', and was rounded by fluid.

 

"As for a smash of his skull exposing brain, the smash is large, opening to the interior of his skull, [to] the membrane (netnet) enclosing the brain. It breaks into his fluid in the interior of his head."

 

So the Egyptians were aware of the cerebrospinal fluid and that it pulsed. They knew this at least 3500 years ago probably more like 5000 years ago.

 

[gendao]

Yes, that is Grand Master Jin in the pic. Wonderful, sweet man from Shanghai. A walking chi beast who could knock a person over with a flick of a finger. He has written a book. It's very thick. I think it is in Cantonese. His english is pretty bad. It's also like $500 but from what I hear is filled with illustrations. He had shown me some mudras for protection and bliss. He has a few apprentices floating around. One of my students was being groomed to be his heir to his lineage but for some reasons it did not work out.

Cool, I'd love to see that book - I wonder what the title is?

 

And fortunately, all Chinese script is the same (different dialects like Cantonese vs Mandarin exist only in the oral pronunciation). Unfortunately though, I can still barely read any Chinese..lol. Which is a shame because so many books exist only in Chinese!

He once told Glenn and I that our students were very advanced. He thought it was because we were not Chinese. LOL. He didn't realize it was from KAP practice and teaching. His comment was that our students picked up things easily. He was able to comment on this because all three of us team taught a kundalini-qigong intensive over a weekend a ways back. Jin Fa is a showman. We called him the Chinese James Brown. He just needed a cape to make the picture complete.

Ironically, I think due to the language barrier, Western students may end up practicing more, and studying less. They do not become "burdened" by knowing too much, too soon - and so may actually make faster progress initially.

 

It is pretty cool to see modern American kundalini practitioners integrating with a traditional Chinese qigong master - and how those similar practices mesh with each other. Were there any notable differences or different emphases?

 

I know in general that Chinese neidan is a more lower dantian-focused practice that seeks to open the microcosmic orbit (ren & du mai) before the kundalini (zhong mai). Whereas the Indian yogic system seems to focus more on opening the kundalini first with upward attention on the 3rd eye?

Master Jin was very practical and down to earth. He wanted his students to progress to shaking from their standing process as soon as possible. The mind gets in the way of a good practice. He thought it very important that students also develop a sensitivity to feeling chi as a foundation. So do I and I think it is good to start with shaking as well as standing.

Interesting - so he likes the spontaneous shaking, too?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3uo7_lhWpw

Is the spontaneous shaking more for the initial big purge of gross blockages, though? That diminishes later on after your major blockages have been pushed out? (This is the impression I got after my experience with Kunlun.)

It is not just about form correction although I am surprised by how many advance practitioners don't get their arms rounded at the arm pits. Like holding a ball there. It keeps the chi flow from being cut off to the fingers.

Yea, it's key details like this where the teaching/knowledge do start paying huge dividends over just tireless brute effort...

Do standing stake and be aware of the inner process happening with the three treasures of man: jing, chi, and shen. We want to build jing to convert to chi that then transforms to shen. It doesn't stop there but it is a start. Kundalini will rapidly accelerate these processes.

We want to work with the lesser Kan and Li, the middle Kan and Li, the Upper or greater Kan and Li in the three Dantiens. I have also heard allusions to the Supreme Kan and Li. In plain terms we are talking about an internal alchemy process that mixes fire and water to create steam.

 

 

We discussed this some on the Bums last year: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/19076-indian-vs-chinese-metaphysics/page__st__16

Hmm, are you talking about the same or different Kan & Li levels as Mantak Chia?

Lesser Kan & Li: Fire is drawn from heart, and Water is drawn from genitals. The Cauldron is at the level of the navel. The Seed is from the liver.

 

Greater Kan & Li: Fire is drawn from the sun, and Water is drawn from the earth. The Cauldron is at the level of the solar plexus. The Seed is from the spleen.

 

Greatest Kan & Li: Fire is drawn from the North Star, and Water is drawn from moon. The Cauldron is at the level of the heart.

The book Zhong Lü Chuan Dao Ji lists five classes of immortals:

 

Guǐxiān ("Ghost Immortal"): A person who cultivates too much yin energy. These immortals are likened to Vampires because they drain the life essence of the living, much like the fox spirit. Ghost immortals do not leave the realm of ghosts.

 

Rénxiān (“Human Immortal”): Humans have an equal balance of yin and yang energies, so they have the potential of becoming either a ghost or immortal. Although they continue to hunger and thirst and require clothing and shelter like a normal human, these immortals do not suffer from aging or sickness. Human immortals do not leave the realm of humans. There are many sub-classes of human immortals.

 

Dìxiān (“Earth Immortal”): When the yin is transformed into the pure yang, a true immortal body will emerge that does not need food, drink, clothing or shelter and is not effected by hot or cold temperatures. Earth immortals do not leave the realm of earth. These immortals are forced to stay on earth until they shed their human form.

 

Shénxiān ("Spirit Immortal"): The immortal body of the earthbound class will eventually change into vapor through further practice. They have supernatural powers and can take on the shape of any object. These immortals must remain on earth acquiring merit by teaching mankind about the Tao. Spirit immortals do not leave the realm of spirits. Once enough merit is accumulated, they are called to heaven by a celestial decree.

 

Tiānxiān (“Celestial Immortal”) – Spirit immortals who are summoned to heaven are given the minor office of water realm judge. Over time, they are promoted to oversee the earth realm and finally become administrators of the celestial realm. These immortals have the power to travel back and forth between the earthly and celestial realms."

And I think the "highest" level would be the "Celestial Immortal" of Taoism that (I believe) would correspond to the Law Body (fashen, dharmakaya) of Buddhism.

Standing stake is pretty generic but so powerful. I would progress through the three levels. It's hard not to focus on the jing aspect if one is practicing correctly because that comes up in your face right away. We found out how really weak we are quickly. That is not to say the other two treasures don't come up when we are focusing on the jing development.

 

The three year plan is slower of course but can be more stable for a lot of people. My kundalini awakening was very dramatic and volatile. Dr. Menard told me if I had been his student and that happened he would have lost face because there was so much lack of control. But, to me, kundalini awakening is a messy and often out of control process. It can be hell for control freaks. LOL! Dr. Menard told me three years was important to the Chinese because they don't do crazy. It is thought that less than three years is unhealthy and unstable. This is a cultural bias and does not mean that it can't be different. It is different.

 

To tell you any special refinements would be not so helpful because that is where face to face comes in. Relax, breathe, and let the energy move you and move through your body can be a lifetime practice but these are VERY important.

 

Hope that helps some,

Susan

 

PS. Once Master Jin and I were teaching at an upstate NY Buddhist retreat center. We met in NYC and happened to go the 911 site. He sat down by the big hole (this was 2006) and starting chanting mantras/prayers with his prayer beads and doing mudras. It was like a hole opened up in the earth and all the souls who were lost in the ground started rising like radiant beams of light up into the sky. It was amazing to watch and to see this little man sitting and rocking back and forth as he was praying while all the people around him rushed about their business.

Very informative & great post, Thanks!!! Edited June 17, 2012 by vortex

[Informer]

I'm curios how one determines the fantasy and fairy tales from the truth?

 

There are many ideas surrounding this subjective phenomena, a lot which appeals to peoples death anxiety such as "heaven" for christians.

 

How do you go about determining fact from fiction?

Edited June 17, 2012 by Informer

[ShaktiMama]

You can contact either Philip or Michael on the home page of his website about the book. I don't see it on the site like it used to be but you might ask if it is still available. Philip's english is a little better but he still speaks with a heavy accent. Michael, I believe, is in Toronto and is a native English speaker. Both are senior apprentices. Philip has been working with Master Jin for a thousand years it seems but Michael has a better understanding of Western ways and questions. Philip lives in Vancouver. At least that was current knowledge as of 2008.

 

Noticeable differences: Dr. Morris's bias was more Taoist. Master Jin is a devout Buddhist. Prayers, lifestyle, and mantras were very important to him. Glenn was more of the rockstar type. LOL

 

I think KAP cultivates sensitivity to chi and energy flow more quickly. This provides feedback quickly to the skeptical minds. It gives re-assurance to the new practitioner. (A few of my students are high level security clearance space engineers and they love this chi stuff. ) Both Master Jin and Glenn commented on how students wouldn't keep up with their practices/homework. Jin wanted people to practice even if it meant they practiced standing while watching TV. There is more reverence/deference for the teacher as primary guru in Jin's system. He was called "the Master" by all his students. Glenn was Glenn or Doc to his students. Some azz kissers would call Glenn the Grandmaster to his face, and he was, but that was not comfortable for him.

 

Both wanted daily practice and daily meditation. Both had/have fierce martial arts skills. Both knew and used shamanic side of qigong, bon po, etc.

 

I find kundalini~qigong is very complimentary in my experience and in talking with other teachers. Some don't like that at all.

 

Both thought spontaneous shaking was to be cultivated as an essential part of the practices. I still use shaking in all my classes and personally. It is not as dramatic as it was in the beginning but to think one becomes totally free of blockages and will never need to shake or do shaking again is in error. My body still does jerking releases. It happens a lot when Santiago Dobles and I are around each other since we work on clearing the other. There is always a deeper level to go to for working. Death is the only thing that will stop it.

 

Like Sifu Jenny Lamb, whom I adore and have learned from who lives local to me, myself, Glenn and Jin Fa have shaking as preventative maintenance practice.

 

There are different types of shaking that go on. Shaking comes when there is pathological chi and experienced qigong practitioners can tell you what kind of pathology is in play by the type of shaking movement exhibited. Shaking/kriyas also result when energy is slamming up against a block in the body. When the block dissolves it is like taking boulders out of a rapids in a river. The flow becomes much smoother. Shaking also is preventative/maintenance that can or should be done on a daily basis as Sifu Jenny instructs and does KAP. It keeps the channels clean and lets the body correct itself with it's own adjustment.

 

Yes, Glenn like Chia's work for the most part. But even all this discussion that Chia writes about happens spontaneously with a kundalini awakening as it did with me for example, without any instruction.

 

Re: the video. That looks like how a session with Jin Fa works. Some contextual considerations. Energy doesn't move through tension. That would be tension held in the body, the spirit, the mind, the emotions, etc. Being with someone you trust puts one at ease so this energy can move easier and have a deeper effect. Taking someone off the street to do these things to may not work because we are working with subtle energies.

 

There are some chi beasts out there who can do this without the receiver being prepared. Those are usually combat applications of chi. Santiago Dobles is a master of this. He can take people down before they even get one step away from standing without ever touching them. Master Jin and Glenn can do that too. I can do it a portion of the time but my energy is more of the healing/yin/the mother quality so it doesn't have that yang impact. But I know enough to disrupt energy flow through meridians to incapacitate people if they get too close. I have a lot of work to do on my combat skills. Just a babe there.

 

Glenn was a master of Dim Mak and was known world wide in the combat martial arts world as "Dr. Death." Santi's skills are scary effective since he has added much of the hidden Sumatran and Indonesian Silat arts to his practice on top of what he learned from Glenn. Lately he has been doing intense study with Maha Guru Pendekar Suci Richard Crabbe de-Bordes from Ghana. That guy is effing scary in his Silat and has mad energy skills. Here's a vid of him teaching at Santi's school in March of this year.

 

Here's an old vid of Santi teaching pushing and pulling with chi:

 

for some reason my [/media] linking gets stripped out.

 

Just a note: To be truly effective with Dim Mak one also has to be an exceptional healer and understand energy flows.

 

Hope that helps

 

Cool, I'd love to see that book - I wonder what the title is?

 

And fortunately, all Chinese script is the same (different dialects like Cantonese vs Mandarin exist only in the oral pronunciation). Unfortunately though, I can still barely read any Chinese..lol. Which is a shame because so many books exist only in Chinese!Ironically, I think due to the language barrier, Western students may end up practicing more, and studying less. They do not become "burdened" by knowing too much, too soon - and so may actually make faster progress initially.

 

It is pretty cool to see modern American kundalini practitioners integrating with a traditional Chinese qigong master - and how those similar practices mesh with each other. Were there any notable differences or different emphases?

 

I know in general that Chinese neidan is a more lower dantian-focused practice that seeks to open the microcosmic orbit (ren & du mai) before the kundalini (zhong mai). Whereas the Indian yogic system seems to focus more on opening the kundalini first with upward attention on the 3rd eye?Interesting - so he likes the spontaneous shaking, too?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3uo7_lhWpw

Is the spontaneous shaking more for the initial big purge of gross blockages, though? That diminishes later on after your major blockages have been pushed out? (This is the impression I got after my experience with Kunlun.)Yea, it's key details like this where the teaching/knowledge do start paying huge dividends over just tireless brute effort...Hmm, are you talking about the same or different Kan & Li levels as Mantak Chia?And I think the "highest" level would be the "Celestial Immortal" of Taoism that (I believe) would correspond to the Law Body (fashen, dharmakaya) of Buddhism.Very informative & great post, Thanks!!!

[ShaktiMama]

Experience.

Training in internal energy cultivation skills.

S

 

 

I'm curios how one determines the fantasy and fairy tales from the truth?

 

There are many ideas surrounding this subjective phenomena, a lot which appeals to peoples death anxiety such as "heaven" for christians.

 

How do you go about determining fact from fiction?

[ShaktiMama]

Thanks, ShaktiMama, for the insights into teaching methods and the story of the healing at the 911 site.

 

I always enjoy Tao Bums for the sincerity of the contributions, even though sometimes the feathers get ruffled a little, and the inspiration I feel as I learn to sit the lotus. Not so easy to change and be open, here's a favorite picture that I think Apech turned me on to, the queen and the goddess:

 

 

would you believe, I don't think I ever noticed the snake wound in among the horns?

 

 

Your welcome. A lot of esoteric knowledge is presented in that graphic.

S