Need serious help please, kundalini problems

[Informer]

To hurt your feelings was not my intent. My apologies if I have done so.

 

Same to you. I don't know if it was so much as to do with feelings as it had to do with disrespect. If one wants respect they have to give it where I come from. I see how I could have been disrespectful towards a more creative and sensitive side of things. I realize how insensitive it could appear to you.

I don't try to hurt your feelings, I only want to ask you to question deeper for truth and all feelings about it aside, I mean I think you had the right idea at one point . . . which is looking for something tangible, to combine with the subjectivity.

 

I don't take pleasure in this role, I do it because someone has to.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Informer

[thelerner]

First, nothing but respect for ShaktiMama; her experience and sharing. I've found shaking runs through many systems. In Ki Aikido we'd shake vigorously, with small motion. In Kap it was much bigger moving the whole body up and down. Healing Tao has some shaking warm ups. In Kunlun you hold a static position and it causes various shaking. In Stillness Movement meditation there is a rocking when doing sitting meditation. You go to a orthodox shul and see people standing and praying with a similar rocking motion. There's a sect of Christianity literally called Shakers.

 

When things are that cross cultural, there is usual some gold there.

[ShaktiMama]

First, nothing but respect for ShaktiMama; her experience and sharing. I've found shaking runs through many systems. In Ki Aikido we'd shake vigorously, with small motion. In Kap it was much bigger moving the whole body up and down. Healing Tao has some shaking warm ups. In Kunlun you hold a static position and it causes various shaking. In Stillness Movement meditation there is a rocking when doing sitting meditation. You go to a orthodox shul and see people standing and praying with a similar rocking motion. There's a sect of Christianity literally called Shakers.

 

When things are that cross cultural, there is usual some gold there.

 

You are absolutely correct. Go to the wailing wall in Jerusalem and you will see the faithful davining. Davin da it is called.

 

When muslims and sufis chant and pray that also bend at the waist and rock up and down.

 

This motion causes pumping of the energy at the pelvis and ming men. It pumps the energy up the spine and out the crown and thru the body. It is a way to connect and develop spiritually. It calms the mind and body

 

Shaking is also naturally inherent in the young but what do our cultures do? Sit down, sit still!!!! Don't move! Stop fidgeting!!! Shut up!

 

I used to teach in my classes a non traditional form of shaking. I would put on a great rhythmic danceable song and have people dance their hearts out. Then I would tell them to stand still and shut their eyes. Then I would take on a parental role and start yelling at them, "Stop it! Stop Shaking! Stop fidgeting!. Be quiet! Stop Moving. How many times do I need to tell you....etc..." Some people would start crying because of a loss of joy they were feeling by having to shut down the shaking and dancing. Then I would have them dance and shake again.

 

The body likes to shake. It cultivates energy. We must encourage it to promote optimum health no matter what tradition we have to use.

 

Energy, chi, kundalini, are cross cultural, world wide natural phenomenon present in all human beings. No one tradition, faith, practice has a premium or possession of it. Learn more than one for maximum benefit.

 

 

For some personal experimentation. Sit on a zafu cushion and keep bending at the waist back and forth in a rocking motion. See how fast you can go. Then try slow. Alternate rhythms. See if the body doesnt choose on it's own a natural rhythm and speed to do so. Watch what your hands might want to do. Then try it standing up. Be aware of internal changes in your energy flow and the states of your mind and heart. Rocking and shaking can be life changing. Add music of your choice if you like. Experiment.

 

You can also sit in a chair. Sit on the edge. For men your package should be off the chair. The knees should be positioned over the the ankles. like doing sitting qi gong in a chair. Then start the rocking. With sifu jenny's instruction/tradition, one lifts the heels off the ground to promote and activate shaking. So either try the rocking and/or the shaking this way. I used to do this for hours.

[joeblast]

Great posts, sm...also an excellent point on the waist rocking, that was a tidbit extra part of max's k-practice also...spiraling was more the kl, but one of the activators of ssss was longitudinal

[Trunk]

much of the foundational training at DGS (link 1, link 2) has to do with shaking: called "vibrating" (smaller vibrations) and "whipping" (larger wave-like motions). Both tap into the fascia layer and release, open, connect. Not as free-form w/in the DGS system, but connects the body in certain shapes, "frame", that is then employed in various forms of the internal martial art (bagua, in that system).

[doc benway]

With respect to shaking, it may also be important in our response to trauma.

This is the foundation for the trauma release work popularized by David Berceli and others.

I apologize if this has already been brought up as I haven't read the whole thread.

 

I also apologize if you've already read the story below - I think I posted it sometime ago.

 

I had the opportunity to watch this in action a few years ago.

I treated a young lady with a very complex finger fracture from a martial arts competition. She came in with her mom and was completely emotionally devastated. She was terribly fearful, closed down, crying, tense - literally a mess. I began explaining what should be done to fix her finger. She began trembling which then rapidly progressed to extremely violent shaking. Her mom panicked and began yelling at her to STOP! I asked mom to relax and let it work it's way out and tried to reassure her. It eventually settled down after about 2-3 minutes, by then mom was terrified. They then left the office still a little shaken up.

 

The next time I saw her, she was completely transformed. She was optimistic, confident, even anxious to proceed with treatment. She was a model patient and had a great outcome - better than expected considering the severity of her injury. I'm convinced that the shaking was a natural and necessary part of the process. I suspect it has something to do with the nervous system releasing the fear, anxiety, and fill in the blank with whatever other words you like based on your preferred paradigm. Without that release, the trauma seems to become "trapped" somehow in the neuromuscular system (again - add or substitute your preferred paradigm here) only to linger or come back to haunt later. Unfortunately, we are conditioned to suppress such reactions and cause problems as a result, I think.

 

I tried Berceli's trauma release techiniques for a while myself and had some response but, to be honest, didn't stick with it long enough to do it justice.

[ShaktiMama]

Great posts, sm...also an excellent point on the waist rocking, that was a tidbit extra part of max's k-practice also...spiraling was more the kl, but one of the activators of ssss was longitudinal

 

Love spiralling. Most of my personal cultivation practice involves spiralling. Genders spiral in different directions. Do what the body wants. Internally I can see figure eight, infinity type, spirals happening in different planes and dimensions. Spirals within spirals. Spirals with celestial bodies, plants, other people.

 

Woo hoo. Some call it secrets I call it play.

 

S

[Apech]

Same to you. I don't know if it was so much as to do with feelings as it had to do with disrespect. If one wants respect they have to give it where I come from. I see how I could have been disrespectful towards a more creative and sensitive side of things. I realize how insensitive it could appear to you.

I don't try to hurt your feelings, I only want to ask you to question deeper for truth and all feelings about it aside, I mean I think you had the right idea at one point . . . which is looking for something tangible, to combine with the subjectivity.

 

I don't take pleasure in this role, I do it because someone has to.

 

 

 

I think maintaining mutual respect is the key. As Voltaire said ... to paraphrase ... he did not agree with the other person but he would fight to the death for their right to say it.

 

'Something tangible to combine with subjectivity' ... well put I think. I like to take the pragmatic empiricism of science to my practice i.e. don't tell me what to believe - show me if it works.

 

Anyway I just thought I'd butt in there for a moment ...

[Informer]

I'm curious if anyone try vibrating instead of shaking?

 

It is similar to shaking but much faster and finer motions.

 

To begin I press the palms together in front of my chest and in front of the heart center, then I clasp my finger around my hand and press with both left and right hands towards each other. If you do it the vibrations will travel through the house of structure you are in as well as you even if you are sitting.

 

I consider it to be advanced from shaking, everyone can pretty much do shaking but vibrating is much more challenging (imo)

Edited June 20, 2012 by Informer

[ShaktiMama]

I'm curious if anyone try vibrating instead of shaking?

 

It is similar to shaking but much faster and finer motions.

 

To begin I press the palms together in front of my chest and in front of the heart center, then I clasp my finger around my hand and press with both left and right hands towards each other. If you do it the vibrations will travel through the house of structure you are in as well as you even if you are sitting.

 

I consider it to be advanced from shaking, everyone can pretty much do shaking but vibrating is much more challenging (imo)

 

I always vibrate from very very fine motions(feels like a sonic sound vibration) on up to larger motions like rocking. I love doing both. I concentrate into the marrow of my bones and feel the vibration of the energy within. It is a fine vibration of bliss. The more I bring my attention to it the more the vibration will spread throughout my whole body.

 

I can bring up the vibration to a larger rocking rocking motion and back down again. I prefer rocking to shaking.

 

Vibration is my natural state. It is always going on at a cellular level. It is characterized by a feeling of joy and bliss as well as the vibration. Energy is always humming through my body. Some put their hands on my body and describe it as feeling fine champagne bubbles running through their fingers. They also describe that at times when I give a physical transmission of energy or when they talk to me on the phone or skype.

[ShaktiMama]

With respect to shaking, it may also be important in our response to trauma.

This is the foundation for the trauma release work popularized by David Berceli and others.

I apologize if this has already been brought up as I haven't read the whole thread.

 

I also apologize if you've already read the story below - I think I posted it sometime ago.

 

I had the opportunity to watch this in action a few years ago.

I treated a young lady with a very complex finger fracture from a martial arts competition. She came in with her mom and was completely emotionally devastated. She was terribly fearful, closed down, crying, tense - literally a mess. I began explaining what should be done to fix her finger. She began trembling which then rapidly progressed to extremely violent shaking. Her mom panicked and began yelling at her to STOP! I asked mom to relax and let it work it's way out and tried to reassure her. It eventually settled down after about 2-3 minutes, by then mom was terrified. They then left the office still a little shaken up.

 

The next time I saw her, she was completely transformed. She was optimistic, confident, even anxious to proceed with treatment. She was a model patient and had a great outcome - better than expected considering the severity of her injury. I'm convinced that the shaking was a natural and necessary part of the process. I suspect it has something to do with the nervous system releasing the fear, anxiety, and fill in the blank with whatever other words you like based on your preferred paradigm. Without that release, the trauma seems to become "trapped" somehow in the neuromuscular system (again - add or substitute your preferred paradigm here) only to linger or come back to haunt later. Unfortunately, we are conditioned to suppress such reactions and cause problems as a result, I think.

 

I tried Berceli's trauma release techiniques for a while myself and had some response but, to be honest, didn't stick with it long enough to do it justice.

 

When I was studying with Dr. David Quigley, a transpersonal Alchemical hypnotherapist, he had a process where we would put people into trance and have the body remember the traumatic energy. So if you had been in a car accident we would direct the body to go through the same motions slowly that had happened in 5 seconds. It was very healing and a lot of times people would be healed from the trauma of the accident. There is something about letting the body wisdom take over and directing it's own healing. Unfortunately, our bodies are seen as enemies in modern culture.

 

http://www.alchemyinstitute.com/somatic.htm

[ShaktiMama]

I think maintaining mutual respect is the key. As Voltaire said ... to paraphrase ... he did not agree with the other person but he would fight to the death for their right to say it.

 

'Something tangible to combine with subjectivity' ... well put I think. I like to take the pragmatic empiricism of science to my practice i.e. don't tell me what to believe - show me if it works.

 

Anyway I just thought I'd butt in there for a moment ...

 

 

My whole approach to practice is bringing scientific tangibility to the subjectivity. Unfortunately, science has yet to create the instruments that are available to do this. One organization is working to change that:

http://www.issseem.org/

[Tibetan_Ice]

Hi ShaktiMama,

Could you please tell me...

In Mike MD's case (the original topic in this thread), would receiving shaktipat from you over distance heal his kundalini problems?

Also, when you do distance shaktipats, do you require a picture?

 

Thanks.

 

TI

[Informer]

I always vibrate from very very fine motions(feels like a sonic sound vibration) on up to larger motions like rocking. I love doing both. I concentrate into the marrow of my bones and feel the vibration of the energy within. It is a fine vibration of bliss. The more I bring my attention to it the more the vibration will spread throughout my whole body.

 

I can bring up the vibration to a larger rocking rocking motion and back down again. I prefer rocking to shaking.

 

Vibration is my natural state. It is always going on at a cellular level. It is characterized by a feeling of joy and bliss as well as the vibration. Energy is always humming through my body. Some put their hands on my body and describe it as feeling fine champagne bubbles running through their fingers. They also describe that at times when I give a physical transmission of energy or when they talk to me on the phone or skype.

 

 

I'm talking about physically vibrating your entire body and surroundings while sitting. I think it is impressive if you can do this continually for even 1 minute.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Informer

[ShaktiMama]

Hi ShaktiMama,

Could you please tell me...

In Mike MD's case (the original topic in this thread), would receiving shaktipat from you over distance heal his kundalini problems?

Also, when you do distance shaktipats, do you require a picture?

 

Thanks.

 

TI

 

 

Hi TI,

 

I can help him smooth out his flow if he allows it. I invited him to join the Kundalini Support Group over at yahoogroups. That way he can get the benefit of being with a group of people, some whom for years, who are working on the same things and have come out on the other side and are thriving.

 

I don't know if it would heal all his problems but it can help. I have come to prefer doing hands on work lately than doing it long distance.

 

No picture required. I pretty much only do group shaktipats or dual shaktipat with Santiago Dobles on skype or in person anymore.

 

I am pretty busy IRL so I maybe only teach trainings a couple times of year now. I have been on vacation and was able to spend a little time on the TBs but that time is starting to disappear.

 

We are hoping to go back to London, UK in October and teach in Ilsford.

 

Occasionally I hold Shaktipat meditations at my home. But I live in Denver. I probably will be doing one in the next month or so. I might open it up to online participants too.

[ShaktiMama]

I'm talking about physically vibrating your entire body and surroundings while sitting. I think it is impressive if you can do this continually for even 1 minute.

 

Yes. I continually vibrate internally. I can turn up the amplitude at will but to do so soon incapacitates me in a state of bliss so I keep it dialed down. I have caused houses to shake, even with long distance intent. It only lasts for a few seconds. I also often cause other people around me to shake and vibrate for a few minutes. I don't use any intention to do so. They just start spontaneously.

 

It's great that you have taught yourself how to do this. This will open doors to other awareness.

[Apech]

My whole approach to practice is bringing scientific tangibility to the subjectivity. Unfortunately, science has yet to create the instruments that are available to do this. One organization is working to change that:

http://www.issseem.org/

 

Ah I didn't know about them. Is there any information on actual achievements or success in measurement?

 

One thought is that scientific measurements take place with instruments which operate at the 'level' of the observed phenomena ... e.g. meters for electricity based on variations of magnetic field etc. ... so what kind of instrument would detect qi ... ??? Just thinking out loud.

[Mokona]

I'm curious if anyone try vibrating instead of shaking?

 

It is similar to shaking but much faster and finer motions.

 

To begin I press the palms together in front of my chest and in front of the heart center, then I clasp my finger around my hand and press with both left and right hands towards each other. If you do it the vibrations will travel through the house of structure you are in as well as you even if you are sitting.

 

I consider it to be advanced from shaking, everyone can pretty much do shaking but vibrating is much more challenging (imo)

I know someone who vibrates as part of practice, I don't know what vibrating into the enviroment is supposed to do, but he vibrates inside of his body as a practice, or at least part of it. He had recommended to me to try holding a vibrating tool and just follow that feeling into the body. It was difficult.

[寒月 Hanyue]

Welcome back on da Bums Shaktimama!

 

And with a smackload of information

 

[ShaktiMama]

Ah I didn't know about them. Is there any information on actual achievements or success in measurement?

 

One thought is that scientific measurements take place with instruments which operate at the 'level' of the observed phenomena ... e.g. meters for electricity based on variations of magnetic field etc. ... so what kind of instrument would detect qi ... ??? Just thinking out loud.

 

 

Yes, boatloads. But Western Science has not taken much of an interest in measuring phenomenon like this. For some reason "we" over on this side of the Pacific don't value much the scientific work that China has done on the phenomenon of chi. There is at least one university that I know of in China that is for training medical qigong doctors.

 

I can't remember if it was on this forum or another were there was a thread about using a Faraday cage for epxerinments on chi.

 

What impressed me about Dr. Jerry Alan Johnson is how voluminous are his biblios with chinese research about chi. He talked about those instruments.

 

In the US, nursing research on the PhD level has done energy healing studies. This is one of the reasons I thought to attend the University of Colorado. Golden, CO, where ISSSEEM is located is about a half hour from me. Been wanting to go over their for years but never was able to. The most I could do was become an acquaintance with their CEO. Dr. Glenn Morris used to be a member. Glenn did his PhD research on designing an executive behavioral measuring tool based on the chakras. He never used the word chakras, etc in his dissertation for Organizational Psych. But, all the behaviors associated with each chakra were built into the tool. It was accurate for me when he gave it to me and those whom I observed him administer it too. I forgot which university he got his PhD degree but I imagine it is part of that university's public record.

 

One of the easiest experiments one can do on chi is on living growing things. Have plant seedlings that receives chi treatments every day and controls that do not.

 

[ShaktiMama]

Welcome back on da Bums Shaktimama!

 

And with a smackload of information

 

 

love you, snowmonki

been busy, always learning, studying, practicing new stuff.

it just depends on the questions asked, ya know.

 

hopefully I will get to Bapak's neighborhood to teach with Santi this October and then we can see the posse again.

 

[Birch]

Ah I didn't know about them. Is there any information on actual achievements or success in measurement?

 

One thought is that scientific measurements take place with instruments which operate at the 'level' of the observed phenomena ... e.g. meters for electricity based on variations of magnetic field etc. ... so what kind of instrument would detect qi ... ??? Just thinking out loud.

 

Do you mean detect the effects of qi? What I mean is the measuring instruments don't measure the 'thing' itself but its effects (we think/hope). Could qi cause a variation in a magnetic field? If so, doesn't mean qi is electricty. That sort of thing. You tend to be good at this scientific logic stuff Apech IMO.

[Apech]

Do you mean detect the effects of qi? What I mean is the measuring instruments don't measure the 'thing' itself but its effects (we think/hope). Could qi cause a variation in a magnetic field? If so, doesn't mean qi is electricty. That sort of thing. You tend to be good at this scientific logic stuff Apech IMO.

 

At the moment I am just an Apple iDunno.

 

You could measure the effect but then they would dispute the mechanism by which that effect is caused I suppose.

[Tibetan_Ice]

Hi TI,

 

I can help him smooth out his flow if he allows it. I invited him to join the Kundalini Support Group over at yahoogroups. That way he can get the benefit of being with a group of people, some whom for years, who are working on the same things and have come out on the other side and are thriving.

 

I don't know if it would heal all his problems but it can help. I have come to prefer doing hands on work lately than doing it long distance.

 

No picture required. I pretty much only do group shaktipats or dual shaktipat with Santiago Dobles on skype or in person anymore.

 

I am pretty busy IRL so I maybe only teach trainings a couple times of year now. I have been on vacation and was able to spend a little time on the TBs but that time is starting to disappear.

 

We are hoping to go back to London, UK in October and teach in Ilsford.

 

Occasionally I hold Shaktipat meditations at my home. But I live in Denver. I probably will be doing one in the next month or so. I might open it up to online participants too.

 

Hi Susan,

Thank you very much for the information.

 

TI

[Informer]

Yes. I continually vibrate internally. I can turn up the amplitude at will but to do so soon incapacitates me in a state of bliss so I keep it dialed down. I have caused houses to shake, even with long distance intent. It only lasts for a few seconds. I also often cause other people around me to shake and vibrate for a few minutes. I don't use any intention to do so. They just start spontaneously.

 

It's great that you have taught yourself how to do this. This will open doors to other awareness.

 

 

I'm curious who taught you to vibrate? I found it 13 years ago, and have never heard anyone speak of it before. Yes it led to much more, including increased chi flows. (When I first heard of shaking I found it worthless in comparison)

 

As far as I know this is the first time this sort of vibrating has been brought up in regards to practice, here or anywhere else. If you learn exclusively from instructors and masters, which one showed you and where is it written?

Edited June 21, 2012 by Informer