Not-Doing

[manitou]

I picked up a TTC translation by Stephen Mitchell, and the description of Not-Doing (wu-wei) is so nicely worded, I'd love to post it here. He writes this in his introduction:

 

People usually think of Lao-tzu as a hermit, a dropout from society, dwelling serenely in some mountain hut, unvisited except perhaps by the occasional traveler arriving from a '60s joke to ask, "What is the meaning of life?" But it's clear from his teaching that he deeply cared about society, if society means the welfare of one's fellow human beings; his book is, among other things, a treatise on the art of government, whether or a country or of a child. The misperception may arise from his insistence on 'wei wu wei', literally "doing not-doing," which has been seen as passivity. Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

A good athlete can enter a state of body-awareness in which the right stroke or the right movement happens by itself, effortlessly, without any interference of the conscious will. This is a paradigm for non-action: the purest and most effective form of action. THE GAME PLAYS THE GAME; THE POEM WRITES THE POEM; WE CAN'T TELL THE DANCER FROM THE DANCE. (Emphasis mine)

 

"Less and less do you need to force things,

until finally you arrive at non-action.

When nothing is done,

Nothing is left undone."

 

Nothing is done because the doer has wholeheartedly vanished into the deed; the fuel has been conpletely transformed into flame. This "nothing" is, in fact, everything. It happens when we trust the intelligence of the universe in the same way that an athlete or a dancer trusts the superior intelligence of the body. Hence Lao-tzu's emphasis on softness. Softness means the opposite of rigidity, and is synonymous with suppleness, adaptability, endurance. Anyone who has seen a t'ai chi or aikido master doing not'doing will know how powererful this softness is.

 

Lao-tzu's central figure is a man or woman whose life is in perfect harmony with the way things are. This is not an idea; it is a reality; I have seen it. The Master has mastered Nature; not in the sense of conquering it, but of becoming it. In surrendering to the Tao, in giving up all concepts, judgments, and desires, her mind has grown naturally compassionate. She finds deep in her own experience the central truths of the art of living, which are paradoxical only on the surface; that the more truly solitary we are, the more compassionate we can be; the more we let go of what we love, the more present our love becomes; the clearer our insight into what is beyond good and evil, the more we can embody the good. Until finally she is able to say, in all humility, "I am the Tao, the Truth, the Life."

 

 

I don't think it gets much better than this. What a beautiful merger of the philosophical with the physical. The more I travel this path, the more I realize judgment gets in the way of everything.

 

I also like the fact that Mitchell utilizes the female as the Sage as well.

Edited May 25, 2012 by manitou

[ChiDragon]

無為(Wu Wei) is "no need to do anything" rather than "Not-doing". What LaoTze had in mind was that Nature will follow its course. There is no need for intervention with Nature; Nature will do her thing and everything will be turned out Okay.

[dwai]

[manitou]

I'll bet there's a world of nuances on all the different translations, too, on the Do-Nothing, Not-Doing, or No need to do anything.

 

I have found that wu-wei is vital to daily life, when it comes to decisions where I don't know which way to go. When I find myself asking what to do, I immediately answer myself. Do nothing. Let the dynamic in play continue. Sit here on the fence and watch it. When approached, always respond in the most loving fashion appropriate to the situation. When I use this with relationships, with any type of decision that isn't screamingly obvious to me....this works as well here too. For anything, it seems.

 

It truly is sorcery. Things shake out magically.

[manitou]

Dwai - When I started to read your post, I chuckled because I realized how very much like Carlos Casteneda and don Juan that sounded like. then, next paragraph, I realized it was Castaneda and don Juan..

 

Yes. Preconceptions. Looking at the shadows rather than the leaves. Staring into a pond with your eyes slightly fuzzied and making no judgments about what we're seeing. Placing no values on each item, each item is as important or unimportant as the next. It occured to me the other day as I was driving (I wish these things would happen when I was walking, it would be safer) just how much of what we think we see is our conclusion. I conclude that this tree is further than that tree, and that's why it appears higher on the horizon. right there I put a preconception on it; my prior experience as a human being (and as an artist) that distance is a fixed quantity in the linear world.

 

But the world don Juan was trying to teach to Carlos was non-linear, the world where things don't follow logically. don Juan had a hard time with Carlos because of his extremely fine tuned and rigid left brain, the organizational anthropoligist. Copious quantities of drugs were used on Carlos at the beginning to shake that loose, to see exactly what it is that you're talking about; the ability to suspend prior knowledge of what we think we know in order to stop the march of (the illusion of) time and be here in the present.

 

I find that the most wonderful thing is that all Masters, regardless of their tradition, seem to end up in the same place. Wu-wei, Power of Silence, Peace that Passeth Understanding, the Eagles' Eminations.....what a wonderful confirmation to those of us who take the path seriously that even though it seems crazy at times...even though people laugh constantly and don't understand why we live life as we do....in my case, even to the point of an alienated family who understands upward mobility but not inner peace. Our conversations are short and empty.

 

The Tao, if it were not laughed at, wouldn't be the Tao. What a riotous cosmic joke this all is. When we get to the point where all we care about is merger with the One, or god, or brahma, or the Void....this is the point where the craziness really starts affecting our lives; where we find that we have to put our money where our mouth is; that it's not just a philosophical exercise after all, like it was in the beginning. It's something that we're supposed to wear...that's the point. And each of us has a garment of our own making, once we've assembled all the pattern pieces together. But this is the part where the rest of the world doesn't understand us, either. Maybe that's why this website is gold to people who really want to go the distance. Fellow souls doing the same.

 

don Juan also reminded Carlos that shaman's (or masters of any sort, I would think)walk a very fine line between sanity and insanity. Boy, can I relate to that one

[astralc]

"a man or woman whose life is in perfect harmony with the way things are."

 

This is beautiful, poetry, like the perfect flow in tai chi, thanks for posting.

[manitou]

"a man or woman whose life is in perfect harmony with the way things are."

 

This is beautiful, poetry, like the perfect flow in tai chi, thanks for posting.

 

 

And to be in perfect harmony is to make nary a judgment about something being good or bad, right or wrong. I just realized how hard I've been pushing my partner to market his dremeled wood pieces - chairs, tables, etc. To the point of total frustration, mine and his. He wants to walk away from his art, he's so frustrated about marketing in this depressed area. I of course am a wealth of ideas: internet, auctions, etc. This is driving him up a wall. He wants to take a hatchet to his pieces and burn them out back in the firepit.

 

I finally saw what I was doing, this morning. I retrieved the one beautiful little table from his inventory, the one I particularly love, and I'm turning my back on the rest of his stuff. I'm sure the hatchet's not far behind. It's his art. He can destroy it. My heart is heavy and there are tears in my eyes even now as I write this.

 

But perfect harmony I want, I realize. Even more than for his art to succeed.

[Brian]

And to be in perfect harmony is to make nary a judgment about something being good or bad, right or wrong. I just realized how hard I've been pushing my partner to market his dremeled wood pieces - chairs, tables, etc. To the point of total frustration, mine and his. He wants to walk away from his art, he's so frustrated about marketing in this depressed area. I of course am a wealth of ideas: internet, auctions, etc. This is driving him up a wall. He wants to take a hatchet to his pieces and burn them out back in the firepit.

 

I finally saw what I was doing, this morning. I retrieved the one beautiful little table from his inventory, the one I particularly love, and I'm turning my back on the rest of his stuff. I'm sure the hatchet's not far behind. It's his art. He can destroy it. My heart is heavy and there are tears in my eyes even now as I write this.

 

But perfect harmony I want, I realize. Even more than for his art to succeed.

 

Tell him you are sorry.

[ChiDragon]

And to be in perfect harmony is to make nary a judgment about something being good or bad, right or wrong. I just realized how hard I've been pushing my partner to market his dremeled wood pieces - chairs, tables, etc.

 

But perfect harmony I want, I realize. Even more than for his art to succeed.

 

Perfect harmony was not what you were after but the perfection of the wood pieces.

 

Remember:

A lessen lesson learnt was a lesson taught. Harmony will be on your way but don't expect it to be perfect....

Edited June 16, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Stosh]

Disclaimer , I may change my mind on this

 

The usual paradigm seems to be

A thing happened

and my internal state is what it is, because of it.

Gaining a realization that ones inner peace can be retained

despite events external, is freeing

 

Another paradigm

I have an emotional perspective

and therefore I must project that perspective outward

to regain my inward peace

again realization that one doesnt have to project

in order to retain their peace is freeing

 

peaceful behavior ,like water, reflects only what is shined upon it

peaceful pursuit of ones innate needs, like water,

makes use of opportunity as it is presented

invariably pursues its Teh.

But it is not projecting itself and interfering with those around it

for the sake of trying to regain its harmony.

 

If the woodwork presents a problem , burn it.

If your interference creates discord , correct it.

Dont value the pieces beyond what they are

Dont value his success

Dont value your guilt

Let those ideas go

Do value the harmonies you find

Thats your Teh talking

Stosh

[manitou]

Oh god, you're all wonderful.

 

I did just tell him I was sorry, Seeker, as per your suggestion. For some reason I hadn't gotten to that yet; it hadn't occurred to me. He graciously accepted my apology just now.

 

Chi Dragon - actually, the wood pieces are pretty perfect as they are - that wasn't quite it. What I was doing was running interference for his disappointment, which is what I've been doing for 27 years in varying degrees. A totally co-dependent thing, this pattern - I need to be staying in my own lane and stop trying to control his art, his life. This is one more in a series of attachments and co-dependencies that I must peel off myself.

 

Stosh, I'm honored that you wrote that. What beautiful and heartfelt prose. Thank you. And your advice is sage -

[ChiDragon]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

 

I thought you knew what "Wu Wei" was........???...

[manitou]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

 

I thought you knew what "Wu Wei" was........???...

 

 

 

I thought I did too, Dragon. Hard to see the dynamic when it's my own life and it's been going on for so long. And I'm guessing even more will be revealed ---

[Stosh]

I thought I did too, Dragon. Hard to see the dynamic when it's my own life and it's been going on for so long. And I'm guessing even more will be revealed ---

 

I am not convinced many ,if any, folks do. (know what wu wei is)

Sure folks think they do! no doubt about that!

 

But with so many different definitions floating around,

and the ultimate authorites being both dead and disputed for 2300 years

and everybody either speaking in riddles or pointing at ancient chinese poetry,

How would anyone know?

 

I have my own ideas too , but they look very little like the ideas of the majority

of folks here ( at least in reading between the lines )

 

One person I read, considered the Laozi as a sort of Rorshach blot test

Nothing defined really , everyone coming up with their own interp

based on how they are predisposed to see it,

and to date , I havent seen anyone step up

and describe in clinical and realistic fashion what the heck it is

and then back it up with reference to the authors

like one would interpreting say,, Moby Dick ,.

( unless it is hidden on some page I have yet to see)

It is very disheartening .

Stosh

[ChiDragon]

The definition of Wu Wei is very simple. "Let Nature take its course with no interference." Another words, let it be the way it supposed to be. Did you see what manitou had done. She interrupted the course of harmony with her husband by interfering with everything to the way she wants it to be.

Edited June 3, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Stosh]

The definition of Wu Wei is very simple. "Let Nature take its course with no interference." Another words, let it be the way it supposed to be. Did you see what manitou had done. She interrupted the course of harmony with her husband by interring with everything to the way she wants it to be.

 

Forgive my response here, you feel you have said the point, and its simple, so I should get it.

But I dont, unless the idea is just to be passive.

If I am passive though, what is it that I can do besides stare at a wall?

I talked to a dude that said he practiced wu wei in his martial arts, how the heck can he manage that? unless it means to allow one to get ones butt kicked.

 

He seemed to think wu wei was not thinking about what he was doing,

and that is fine once you have already done the learning,

worked out feasible responses,

and then allow the responses to occur reactively.

but walking around doing things out of habit,( while peaceful potentially )

doesnt seem like any path to 'enlightenment' ( I already have habits )

 

If I dont interfere with the things around me, I cant eat drive work etc I might as well be dead.

I have no desire to remove myself from the earth to make space for everything else to go on without my interference.

 

You post to this site, how does that jive with "Letting nature taking its course"?

You are interfering with the course of events for every person who reads your posts.

Presumably to their-my potential benefit, but it is still influencing things is it not?

 

Have a nice weekend though , and I do appreciate the posts

Stosh

Edited June 1, 2012 by Stosh

[astralc]

 

I talked to a dude that said he practiced wu wei in his martial arts, how the heck can he manage that? unless it means to allow one to get ones butt kicked.

 

He seemed to think wu wei was not thinking about what he was doing, and that is fine once you have already done the learning, worked out feasible responses, and then allow the responses to occur reactively. but walking around doing things out of habit,( while peaceful potentially) doesnt seem like any path to 'enlightenment' ( I already have habits )

 

If I dont interfere with the things around me, I cant eat drive work etc I might as well be dead. I have no desire to remove myself from the earth to make space for everything else to go on without my interference.

 

You post to this site, how does that jive with "Letting nature taking its course"? You are interfering with the course of events for every person who reads your posts. Presumably to their-my potential benefit, but it is still influencing things is it not?

 

Have a nice weekend though , and I do appreciate the posts

Stosh

 

Stosh, interesting point above, "I talked to a dude that said he practiced wu wei in his martial arts,". From my understanding, and experience, we do practice wu wei while practicing our martial arts. It is in the flow, going with the flow... so that when we are in the outside world our life begins to flow with the tao.

 

I am not sure that I am explaining this right, but by flowing in our forms in practice, we flow in life a little easier. Wu wei to me is flow, flowing with life ("letting life take its course") or being in the tao, as opposed to forcing through life.

 

You made some good points, thanks.

 

Astralc

[ChiDragon]

Well, interfere means the initiative was causing harm to Nature or the nature of thing. In some cases, if no initiative had been taken place, then there would be no harm done.

 

If you were standing and get hit, you weren't the initiator. The philosophy behind Wu Wei was who initiated the interference, not the passive individual. Please get this straight. I am not suggesting that anyone should just stand there and get beat up and do nothing. The emphasis is on the initiator. I had talked about this long enough in the forum. Now I am getting better and better to explain what Wu Wei is....

[Marblehead]

I am actually getting better at wu wei-ing as this is my first post to this thread and even here I am not really saying anything.

[Stosh]

Stosh, interesting point above, "I talked to a dude that said he practiced wu wei in his martial arts,". From my understanding, and experience, we do practice wu wei while practicing our martial arts. It is in the flow, going with the flow... so that when we are in the outside world our life begins to flow with the tao.

 

I am not sure that I am explaining this right, but by flowing in our forms in practice, we flow in life a little easier. Wu wei to me is flow, flowing with life ("letting life take its course") or being in the tao, as opposed to forcing through life.

 

You made some good points, thanks.

 

Astralc

 

You stand in opposition to your opponent

Adapt to his aggression as it is presented

Then as some point you go about trying to defeat,

at that moment you are taking assertive action.

Though you took the path you believed easiest

to defeat him, you had to abandon the idea

of non-forcing the external to your own will.

[Stosh]

Well, interfere means the initiative was causing harm to Nature or the nature of thing. In some cases, if no initiative had been taken place, then there would be no harm done.

 

If you were standing and get hit, you weren't the initiator. The philosophy behind Wu Wei was who initiated the interference, not the passive individual. Please get this straight. I am not suggesting that anyone should just stand there and get beat up and do nothing. The emphasis is on the initiator. I had talked about this long enough in the forum. Now I am getting better and better to explain what Wu Wei is....

 

The great tao doesnt recognize what harm is.

 

A fire burns the forest

we call it harm

even as the eucalyptus seed germinate

to perpetuate the forest

 

All things we actively do are initialted by us

He put on his gi

He stood in opposition

He knew the conflict was coming

 

If he did not do those things and went home

there would have been no conflict of wills

If he had done that

he would have contended without contending

The one hand would have had to clap alone

and he would have been victorious at keeping peace

 

One interferes merely by existing

Look at the trees of the forest competing for sunlight

Eat my sandwich and you deprive me of it

There is no position of non-interference

all things are connected

 

PS talking to the forum is not very much the same as talking to me

Since my way is not the same things may play out differently

 

If you took the stance ,

that the connections and interferences one presents

are moot to gaining internal peace

when one is not aware and intending of that fact,

our opinions share a degree of similarity

But in referring to manitous interference with her husband

you negate that exception.

She was unaware of the negative influence she might be having

and therefore she should have remained at peace

harmonious with the wu wei principle

as it turned out there were negative reprecussions

and you felt she had diverged from the prinicple (though unaware)

So you have indicated ,what appears to be a negation

of the idea that intent or awareness of her interference

was a determining factor.

Besides , there was clearly a chance that the things she was indicating

could have been seen as helpful and nurturing.

Omit all the interferences folks have with their mates

and they have no relationships at all!

Stosh

Edited June 3, 2012 by Stosh

[Stosh]

I am actually getting better at wu wei-ing as this is my first post to this thread and even here I am not really saying anything.

 

Kind of like doing, but not doing?

 

Your post still can affect the outcome

It attests you interest.

it insets a hiatus.

It softens the situation.

and reitterates my opinion

that even your non-assertion affects the 'flow of events'

(from what they would have been otherwise)

thanks

[ChiDragon]

The great tao doesnt recognize what harm is.

 

A fire burns the forest

we call it harm

even as the eucalyptus seed germinate

to perpetuate the forest

 

Yes, Tao has no mercy.

 

A natural fire burns causing no harm to the forest but good. It is because that was how Nature fertilize and enrich its land. However, when human set a fire was not natural because the fire burnt at the wrong place and the wrong time. Thus it causes more harm than good. Wu Wei is more concern about the intentional action which was causing the harm. Wu Wei has less concern about the intend of a good outcome but it cannot tolerate any bad intend, so to speak.

Edited June 3, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Stosh]

Yes, Tao has no mercy.

 

A natural fire burns causing no harm to the forest but good. It is because that was how Nature fertilize and enrich its land. However, when human set a fire was not natural because the fire burnt at the wrong place and the wrong time. Thus it causes more harm than good.

 

A man is as natural as a lightningbolt

[Marblehead]

Kind of like doing, but not doing?

Hehehe. Yes, I was aware of the contradiction of my posting and speaking.

 

But then, I was totally unaware of how what I said would effect those who read it.

 

I guess that's the way it is with most things we do during our lifetime - no idea what far-reaching effects our individual actions and words might have.

 

But then, if we had to consider each word or action to any far-reaching degree we might end up never doing anything and that would be a total waste of a life.

 

We humans are no different from any other thing in the universe in that we are expressions of the totality and we should be doing things. But in a wu wei fashion whenever possible.