Taoist Chinese Medicine

[Osalina]

Dear ChiDragon and Jeff,

 

It was nice to see some friendly sunny faces after dealing with the Informer. He made me feel like I was in some Orwellian Novel in which I was being interrogated in some sterile room. I am still not sure what he was talking about or if he was trying to insult me on purpose. But to have him be the first person to respond to me on this group was a bit unsettling and I must admit did throw me off my center a bit. If I was a Taoist Master; perhaps my dealings with him could have been more smooth. Unfortunately, I am still a work in process, and progress and I am still working on myself and all too quite human, with an ego still in tact.

 

When you said TCM, I am assuming that you are speaking of Taoist Chinese Medicine. If these initials stood for something else, please let me know. I studied in the 1970's with Michael Tierra, Malik Carter, David Little and William LaSassier, and in 1980's and 1990"s with Dr. Stephen Chang Taoist Chinese Medicine, whenever he would come to Maui. I lived in a wilderness Valley in Kauai in 1974 - 1976 for two years in a cave and built a house from native trees and plants with my partner. I feel it was in all my experiences in being so close to nature in which I began feeling connected to the 5 Elements and how aspects of nature effect the body. Or how too much water, sun, wind, mud, or ether out of balance creates various dis - ease conditions. I also studied the Gospel of Peace and the Essene teachings in that Valley in which Jesus worked with the 4 Elements in Healing. So when I learned about Chinese Medicine and 5 Element Theory, I resonated with it quite fully.

 

As in Taoist philosophy, achieving health and harmony is all about finding the center and balance (You could say the eye of the hurricane and calm in the storm)It is how understanding extremes of any element can create dis-ease. In my book (The Alchemy of the 5 Elements) I teach these theories through my childrens story "The Legend of the Beet Brothers" in which the Elements take on a life and character of their own and it is through the eyes of the elements and plants themselves we learn about their healing gifts through poetry, story and humor. The 5 Elements have relationships with the organs, glands, systems, taste, sense organs, and emotions

 

I will outline them here

 

Fire: Heart, Small Intestines, Circulatory, Lymphatic, Thymus Gland, Taste: Bitter Sense: Touch Emotions: Fire out of balance creates anxiety, in balance love and peace.

 

Earth: Stomach, Esophagus, Spleen, Pancreas, Muscular System, Mouth, Taste: Sweet: Sense: Taste Emotions: Out of balance Worry; In balance: Faith the Buddha's belly or Solar Plexus is Calm and Always has Faith in our Creator

 

Water: Kidney, Bladder, Adrenal glands, Ovaries, Uterus, Testes, Prostate, Reproductive System, Urinary System, Skeletal System, Ears, Taste: Salty, Sense: Hearing. Emotions: Flight or Fight (Fear) out of balance. In balance Courage

 

Air also called Metal in Chinese Medicine: Lungs, Large Intestines, Skin, Respiratory System, Nose, Taste: Pungent and Aromatic, Sense: Smell - Emotion: Grief, Irritability. In Balance joy and patience, a breath of calm.

 

Ether also called Wood in Chinese Medicine: Liver, Gallbladder, Brain, Pituitary Gland, Pineal Gland, Eyes, Nervous System. Taste: Sour. Sense: Sight, both inner and outer. Emotions; Anger out of balance. In balance Forgiveness

 

This is just the basics and I would be happy to explain why these Elements were assigned to these organs and glands, emotions, taste, etc.. or at least my interpretations of why, if you are interested.

[ChiDragon]

Dear Osalina.....

 

Thank you for giving us the introduction of the Five Element Attributes. TCM was known as the Traditional Chinese Medicine which was developed by the Taoists. I guess it's OK to call it Taoist Chinese Medicine, too, since it was the Taoist who invented it....

 

Have you ever taught how the five elements interacted with each other...??? The relationship between the internal organs was based on the interaction of the five elements. For example, water(kidney) puts out fire(heart). Since the water puts out the fire, in relation with organs, the kidney is working against the heart. Have you ever heard something like that before once in your TCM study....???

 

 

PS...

This discussion should be taken place in the General Discussion Section. I think you can copy everything to that section with a new thread.

Edited May 26, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Ya Mu]

Yes, the letters TCM does get thrown around a lot. My understanding is that today, it mostly means the Traditional Chinese Medicine as taught in China today. I think what you are referring to may fall more under what I understand as "Classical Chinese Medicine", which often goes far beyond the watered-down TCM as taught today.

I teach a therapeutic form called Taoist Medicine which has nothing whatsoever to do with TCM. There are very few pure Taoist forms.

 

Yes, the Taoists did contribute to TCM, but certainly not exclusively. And today's TCM is but a shadow - one has to look deep at the "Classical Chinese Medicine" to find many of the answers.

 

edit: Osalina. Your expertise is welcome! Don't let a single posting experience get you down. There are some good people here as well as the ones who only have 1/1000 of the training you have. There are even those who have never practiced any of the Taoist arts but read about it and think they understand the meanings and who will tell you everything about it. Such is humanity, eh? But the board population as a whole has outstanding practitioners in the membership; I have met some of them and they are just great people, so please hang around.

Edited May 26, 2012 by Ya Mu

[Osalina]

[surfingbudda]

Yes, the letters TCM does get thrown around a lot. My understanding is that today, it mostly means the Traditional Chinese Medicine as taught in China today. I think what you are referring to may fall more under what I understand as "Classical Chinese Medicine", which often goes far beyond the watered-down TCM as taught today.

 

 

If anyone is interested, here is a link My link to a chinese medicine school in Portland OR, which teaches exclusively what they term, "Classical Chinese Medicine". One would have to do research to find out more about it. If I was going to become a doctor in Oriental medicine, this would be one of the schools I would check out. Of course one could just spend less time and money and go through a legitimate medical qigong program and possibly get the same if not better healing results.

[mjjbecker]

http://traditionalstudies.org/chinese-medicine

 

Snowmonki knows more about this than me and perhaps can chip in some information.

 

http://traditionalstudies.org/about/45-about-about/109-about-andrew-nugent-head

 

Set to begin studying medicine at the Beijing College of Chinese Medicine in 1989, the events around Tiananmen square that summer completely changed his life. When the government wrestled control back from the students and re-organized university education around a political curriculum, it was obvious that the official collegiate route was no longer an authentic path to learning Chinese medicine. Taken under the wing of the late Professor Wang Jin-Huai, Andrew was introduced to the last of the pre-1949 practitioners of Chinese medicine in Beijing and around China. Andrew began learning Chinese medicine in traditional teacher-disciple relationships, listening to their lectures and watching them treat patients in the privacy of their homes. Under his teacher's guidance, he began to see his own patients in 1992 after the traditional 3 year apprenticeship common in old China.

 

In 1993, Andrew met the late Dr. Xie Peiqi, the last person fully trained in all three aspect of the traditional art of Yin Style Bagua. Becoming Dr. Xie's student, translator, assistant, representative, friend and confidante, Andrew spent 10 years intensively training under him and is the only student of Dr. Xie's left directly trained in all three areas of Yin Style Bagua: Chinese medicine, martial arts and internal cultivation.

 

Between 2001-2004, Andrew traveled back and forth between his home in Beijing and Boulder, Colorado to obtain academic credentials and licensure in Chinese Medicine. When in Colorado, he was also member of the continuing education faculty at Naropa University and traveled extensively to teach around the United States.

 

Back home in Beijing full time in 2004, Andrew's relationship with Dr. Li Hongxiang (1924-) grew as he spent time in his clinic as a translator for western patients. In 2005, Andrew was officially recognized by Dr. Li as his Closing Door Student and spent the next 6 years as his clinical assistant and case documentor, as well as filming Dr. Li in his home discussing Chinese medicine. Dr. Li also began work on The Study of Chinese Medicine: A Traditional Perspective, which he finished in the summer of 2011 and is set to be published bilingually with an English translation by Andrew in December of 2012.

 

On 'TCM':

 

http://traditionalstudies.org/chinese-medicine/23-cm-about-chinese-medicine/cm-about/63-modern-chinese-medicine-tcm

 

There is an unfair amount of bashing of the TCM paradigm both in China and the west by traditionalists. TCM is still operating from the foundation theories of Chinese medicine, i.e. Yin-Yang, Five Elements, the Shang Han Lun, etc. The dominant treatment modalities are still herbs, acupuncture and bodywork. As the dominant force of Chinese medicine in China, they also have incredible resources in the form of hospitals, schools and research. Everyday, hundreds of thousands of Chinese are treated with Chinese medicine under this paradigm, and many experience excellent results.

 

For anyone seeking indepth information from a person with a lot of years experience, you'd be hard pushed to find a better source that Mr Nugent-Head.

[Osalina]

[Ya Mu]

http://traditionalstudies.org/chinese-medicine

 

Snowmonki knows more about this than me and perhaps can chip in some information.

 

http://traditionalstudies.org/about/45-about-about/109-about-andrew-nugent-head

 

 

 

On 'TCM':

 

http://traditionalstudies.org/chinese-medicine/23-cm-about-chinese-medicine/cm-about/63-modern-chinese-medicine-tcm

 

 

 

For anyone seeking indepth information from a person with a lot of years experience, you'd be hard pushed to find a better source that Mr Nugent-Head.

 

I took a class with Professor Wang Jin-Huai in the early 90's and Andrew was assisting him. Wang Jin-Huai's medicine form, to me, surely fit the definition of "Classical" instead of what is known as TCM (pre-dated what is generally taught now). He was also known as a great researcher, and said he had spent a large amount of time researching the origins of Chinese medicine. He had come to the conclusion that there once were two main systems of Chinese medicine and there were two main books describing these systems. According to him one of the books got lost and he said that, even though he spent years trying to find word of it or someone who had learned it and would teach it, he could not. This is also what my Taoist medicine teacher said, with one exception; the book did materialize and stayed in one family - this is what I teach, simply called Taoist Medicine.

I think all of these (pre-modern day teachings) different forms of Chinese medicine should, with due diligence and enthusiasm, be preserved through the dedication of those willing to learn as they represent an awesome accumulation of knowledge. Some of these systems/techniques are extremely effective yet are known by only a handful of people.

[ChiDragon]

Dear ChiDragon,

 

Thank you for your clarification of initials, TCM - Traditional Chinese Medicine. One of my teachers Dr. Stephen Chang taught Traditional Chinese Medicine and was also a Taoist so it seemed it could be what you may referring too. When I was learning Chinese Medicine, I did learn about these relationships between elements as a way to have a better understanding of what is going on in a body and what herbs or foods or treatments one should take in order to bring the body back into balance. However, I must admit that is not something I have made as much conscious use of in my teachings and am grateful of your reminder of that. I am sure that knowledge did play a role in my understanding and teachings as to the role of textures and temperatures in healing but I did not teach about these relationships in my books specifically.

 

I checked out some websites to see if there were some good summaries on the subject and found a great site that I copied and pasted here.I would be happy to discuss why these elements relate and how understanding their relationship can help one better understand a disease or condition they are dealing with. This will take some deeper contemplation, as I have taught mostly in terms of why certain organs and systems and senses are related to specific elements through my courses and their relationships with each other in terms of Chinese Medicine Theories and this may take more time to formulate in my mind, how best to relay that. But this is my first attempt in explaining some possible connections.

 

This is a Web Site I found with some great charts that go into even more detail of the relationship of elements to even directions, planets, etc.. http://www.findyourfate.com/chineseastro/elements.htm

 

As far as some of my own insights on this that pops out as obvious. Also these theories may be why the Chinese translated what in Ayurvedic Medicine is called Ether for Wood and Metal for Air to explain these relationships. I must say from here on out some of this theory, I am speaking comes in part from my own theory in trying to understand what ancient people of thousands of years ago were trying to explain.

 

The elements have the capability to destroy, defeat, overcome and overwhelm the other elements as well as nurture them. To end on a positive note I will start with (Destructive Relationship)

 

Osalina

 

Dear Osalina...

Your name is very feminine, BTW, a lovely name too....

 

A scholastic approach to a subject is to go into the root of it to find out what it is. I had found a DVD, a documented interviews with many high Taoist priests of different shrines from mountain to mountain in China. One question was asked:

 

If the Taoists live in a healthy life without any sickness, then why are the herbal medicines...??? The answer was to help the non-Taoist people who do get sick. Hence, they learn about the human body organs and found herbs to make medicine to cure illnesses for others. The fundamental medical theory was developed based on the concept of the Five Elements from the Yi Jing. BTW to become a Chinese Taoist, one must be familiarized with the Yi Jing, the Ba Gua and especially with the Five Element Theory. As a matter of fact, almost everything in the Chinese history was evolved all around the concept of the Five Elements.

 

Now, let's compare notes on the Five Elements. Among the five elements, they interact either aid and oppose each other.

When aiding, it was said to be 生(sheng1): engender; produce; generate; give life to; help to grow; and etc.

金生水 : metal engenders water

水生木 : water engenders wood

木生火 : wood engenders fire

火生土 : fire engenders soil

土生金 : soil engenders gold

 

1. metal engenders water - molten metal becomes liquid.

2. water engenders wood - water helps plants to grow.

3. wood engenders fire - When a piece of stick was rubbing against a piece of wood generates fire.

4. fire engenders soil - Fire burn wood into ashes.

5. soil engenders gold - Gold was formed under the soil.

 

 

 

When opposing: it was said to be 克(ke4): subdue; against; restrain; control; refrain; and etc.

金克木 : metal subdues wood

木克土 : wood subdues soil

土克水 : soil subdues water

水克火 : water subdues fire

火克金 : fire subdues metal

 

1. metal subdues wood - metal ax chops wood

2. wood subdues soil - wood sucks up the nutrients from the soil.

3. soil subdues water - soil blocks the water flow.

4. water subdues fire - water puts out fire.

5. fire subdues metal - fire melts metal.

 

It was interesting how the TCM was developed based on the Concept of the Five Elements by assigning objects to each attribute; and set up their relationships for determining the proper medical treatments. Of course, there were lots of trial and errors to get to the final end results.

Edited May 27, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Osalina]

Dear Osalina...

Your name is very feminine, BTW, a lovely name too....

 

A scholastic approach to a subject is to go into the root of it to find out what it is. I had found a DVD, a documented interviews with many high Taoist priests of different shrines from mountain to mountain in China. One question was asked:

 

If the Taoists live in a healthy life without any sickness, then why are the herbal medicines...??? The answer was to help the non-Taoist people who do get sick. Hence, they learn about the human body organs and found herbs to make medicine to cure illnesses for others. The fundamental medical theory was developed based on the concept of the Five Elements from the Yi Jing. BTW to become a Chinese Taoist, one must be familiarized with the Yi Jing, the Ba Gua and especially with the Five Element Theory. As a matter of fact, almost everything in the Chinese history was evolved all the concept of the Five Elements.

 

Now, let's compare notes on the Five Elements. Among the five elements, they interact either aid and oppose each other.

When aiding, it was said to be 生(sheng1): engender; produce; generate; give life to; help to grow; and etc.

金生水 : metal engenders water

水生木 : water engenders wood

木生火 : wood engenders fire

火生土 : fire engenders soil

土生金 : soil engenders gold

 

1. metal engenders water - molten metal becomes liquid.

2. water engenders wood - water helps plants to grow.

3. wood engenders fire - When a piece of stick was rubbing against a piece of wood generates fire.

4. fire engenders soil - Fire burn wood into ashes.

5. soil engenders gold - Gold was formed under the soil.

 

 

 

When opposing: it was said to be 克(ke4): subdue; against; restrain; control; refrain; and etc.

金克木 : metal subdues wood

木克土 : wood subdues soil

土克水 : soil subdues water

水克火 : water subdues fire

火克金 : fire subdues metal

 

1. metal subdues wood - metal ax chops wood

2. wood subdues soil - wood sucks up the nutrients from the soil.

3. soil subdues water - soil blocks the water flow.

4. water subdues fire - water puts out fire.

5. fire subdues metal - fire melts metal.

 

It was interesting how the TCM was developed based on the Concept of the Five Elements by assigning objects to each attribute; and set up their relationships for determining the proper medical treatments. Of course, there were lots of trial and errors to get to the final end results.

[Osalina]

Dear ChiDragon,

 

Thank you for this. I love the Chinese and Taoist descriptions of these things. As simplistic as they may seem to some people, they really provide so much information. The more you know the relationships of these Elements with all parts of the body, you can begin to see clues as to how not only the elements affect each other, but the inter-re;relationships between all parts of the body and the body of earth, as well as the universe. The microcosm in the macrocosm and visa versa. Your reminding me of the relationships of these elements also helped me to understand why they translated Wood from Ether and Metal from Wood in order to explain relationships in a way harder to translate in the Ayurvedic terminology. Each system has its own unique way of explaining what causes disease and what herbs and foods and conditions can aide a person in finding balance.

 

My main thing is herbs and probally my greatest expertise, is as a Master Herbalist. I use the Elements as a way to understand how herbs work through their relationship to various elements, the 5 senses, Touch - temperatures and textures (hot, cold, wet, dry, rough, smooth) and Fire Element, Taste - bitter, sour, sweet, salty, pungent and aromatic and Earth Element, Sight= shape and visual clues, gem therapy and color, related to the 7 Chakra's and Wood - Ether Element. Smell - various aromatic herbs and foods related to taste and Air (Metal) Element. I also teach about Sound therapy related to various notes, musical instruments and music styles relationships to the 7 Chakra's and Water Element. Then I go into the Chemistry and Properties of herbs for a more western approach to their many benefits.

 

 

Some examples:

 

Fire: Bitter and Hot Foods - bitter stimulates bile in the small intestines and hot and bitter foods have a heating affect to burn and cook germs, and warm the body working with Thymus and Lymphatic, stimulate greater circulation for the heart for these fire element organs, glands and system.

 

Earth: Sweet - sweet foods provide sugar that the pancreas turns into glucose for the production of insulin. Starches (Carbohydrates) also turn to sugar and are needed for muscle building along with proteins. The spleen also assists in turning starches to sugar. Sweet is the first taste as humans we taste in our Mouth when arriving on earth through our earth mother. This taste relates to these earth element organs, glands and system.

 

Water: Salty - The adrenals secrete hormones that are related to fluid/electrolyte balance, mineral salts provide the electrolytes needed by the body and the kidneys also serves as a filter for these salts that in excess are stored in Bladder to be released with the waters. It is also in oceans, lakes and streams in which these salts are deposited and seaweeds and aquatic plants are especially high in mineral salts. This taste relates to these water element organs, glands and system.

 

Metal (Air): Pungent and Aromatic - aromatic and pungent herbs and foods open the lungs and help expel air and gas from the large intestines. I have heard a statement that Metal chops wood to bring out the aroma in the air. Pungent aromatics are also antifungal for skin conditions and respiratory infections or even candida and fungus that start in the large intestines and can become systemic. This taste relates to these Metal (Air) element organs, glands and system.

 

Wood (Ether): Sour - sour foods also stimulate bile and gastric juices to activate the liver and gallbladder in the wood element. Sour is also astringent and draws tissues together. Although Astringent may not be as relevant to Wood in relationship to Liver, Gallbladder, Nerves, Brain, Pineal and Pituitary, however, this aspects of sour working with liver and gallbladder does aide in assimilation of fat soluble vitamins and many nutrients such as B12 that is essential to brain and nerve function. This taste relates to these Wood or Ether element organs, glands and system.

 

These are just some of the ways that I apply these teachings in my work as an Herbalist for practical use and understanding for bringing the body into balance

 

Touch Sense; Textures and temperatures

 

Hot: Too much heat causes irritations and inflammations

Not enough heat and the body becomes sluggish and sedate

 

Cold: Too much cold sedates the body and slows circulation. When their is too much heat you need cooling foods to cool the heart to calm the nerves and bring down inflammations

 

Wet: Too many fluids not being properly circulated and released as needed can create fluid on lungs, edema, enlarged heart, germs, fungus and bacteria like to grow in wet marshy environments. Not enough fluids circulating and the body becomes toxic, or organs dry out or skin dries and becomes more susceptible to aging. Deserts crumble into dust

 

Dry: When the body dries, it ages, lubrication is needed to circulate nutrients, such as through mucus membranes, urinary, blood, etc... But too much moisture - breeds disease and many conditions, some listed above

 

Smooth; things such as fats and oils, mucilaginous foods like pectin, seaweeds, cooked starches, etc.. are needed for lubrication, easy delivery throughout the body and to take down inflammation. Too many fats or mucus forming foods create many disease conditions, obesity, congestion, etc..

 

Rough: roughage is needed to scrub and clean intestines or like a dry brush to scrub skin for better circulation. too much roughage when colon is irritated and inflamed can be more irritating. Like scrubbing a wound on skin, it can cause more damage.

 

In 5 Element and Chinese Medicine it is all about finding balance and harmony. Not too hot or Cold, Wet or Dry, Smooth or Soft, Yin or Yang Etc...

[寒月 Hanyue]

http://traditionalstudies.org/chinese-medicine

 

Snowmonki knows more about this than me and perhaps can chip in some information.

 

For anyone seeking indepth information from a person with a lot of years experience, you'd be hard pushed to find a better source that Mr Nugent-Head.

 

Not to derail the thread from its OP, so I'll keep this short.

 

TCM ("Traditional Chinese Medicine")is the Communist Governments standardisation and Western Bio-medicine hybrid Chinese Medicine.It utilises BOTH Western science and Chinese medicine, though increasingly uses A Western scientific model in its attempts to become accepted by Science.

 

It has good points and bad points, but it really is quite a different animal to Chinese medicine, ie how and what was taught prior to 1949. Which is what Andrew is teaching. Watching Andrew teach is quite remarkable, I am amazed he doesn't do it for profit and is more intent on increasing awareness and making sure the perspective as well as the skills are not lost.

 

There are also a few people who are beggining to teach Chinese Medicine taking a classical perspective.

 

The medicine from within Religous circles often differed again from the mainstream medicine in China.

 

All the best,

[寒月 Hanyue]

It was nice to see some friendly sunny faces after dealing with the Informer. He made me feel like I was in some Orwellian Novel in which I was being interrogated in some sterile room.

 

Thanks for posting your info Osalina, sorry you had a rough welcome to the forum.

 

Anyway, welcome to the madhouse

 

Best,

[Taomeow]

Not to derail the thread from its OP, so I'll keep this short.

 

TCM ("Traditional Chinese Medicine")is the Communist Governments standardisation and Western Bio-medicine hybrid Chinese Medicine.It utilises BOTH Western science and Chinese medicine, though increasingly uses A Western scientific model in its attempts to become accepted by Science.

 

It has good points and bad points, but it really is quite a different animal to Chinese medicine, ie how and what was taught prior to 1949.

 

The rabbit hole goes deeper... how about Rockefeller investing $45,000,000 in 1927 (perhaps equivalent to $ billions today) into "Westernizing" Chinese medicine?.. Check out, e.g.,

 

http://www.whale.to/b/ruesch.html

[Osalina]

Dear Snowmonki,

 

Thanks for your warm welcome. I look forward to checking out the links you gave furthur. It looks like great stuff. I also appreciate your sharing Taomeow. When my Mom was in Beijing China in the 80's and was trying to get her Chinese Acupuncture Doctor friends in America, she tried everything to no success. The Chinese Government was so oppressive and letters I read from her Doctor friends were so sad about how the Chinese Government often separated them from their own family for a year or more at a time. I also agree with you about how the rich elite of this country besides the Rockerfellow's; Lily Pharmaceuticals, of the Bush family are behind a lot of suppression of natural medicine and westernization of medicine around the world for greed for quite some time.

 

These conspiracies actually go back to the College of Physicians and before and the Witch Trials were also an example of a way to suppress midwives and herbalists from providing simple natural cures to the common people. Pharmaceuticals, blood letting and all kinds of barbaric practices of medicine contrary to common sense and propagated by greedy people to profit on the poor and sick has been going on for probally as long as we have had civilizations. Greed and suppression of cures that are simple and easy to obtain has been something people of money and power like to suppress. However, this is not to say that all people of wealth and power are like this, or that western medicine does not have its benefits in some cases. Of course there are many compassionate healers in Western Medicine practices, but sadly, natural medicine and teaching people knowledge about how to unblock energy through touch and movement and use simple foods and herbs to heal is especially scary to people who want to enslave people to the system they have in place for so called health and happiness that involves getting them rich while poisoning people, plants, animals and the earth.

[Taomeow]

Dear Snowmonki,

 

Thanks for your warm welcome. I look forward to checking out the links you gave furthur. It looks like great stuff. I also appreciate your sharing Taomeow. When my Mom was in Beijing China in the 80's and was trying to get her Chinese Acupuncture Doctor friends in America, she tried everything to no success. The Chinese Government was so oppressive and letters I read from her Doctor friends were so sad about how the Chinese Government often separated them from their own family for a year or more at a time. I also agree with you about how the rich elite of this country besides the Rockerfellow's; Lily Pharmaceuticals, of the Bush family are behind a lot of suppression of natural medicine and westernization of medicine around the world for greed for quite some time.

 

These conspiracies actually go back to the College of Physicians and before and the Witch Trials were also an example of a way to suppress midwives and herbalists from providing simple natural cures to the common people. Pharmaceuticals, blood letting and all kinds of barbaric practices of medicine contrary to common sense and propagated by greedy people to profit on the poor and sick has been going on for probally as long as we have had civilizations. Greed and suppression of cures that are simple and easy to obtain has been something people of money and power like to suppress. However, this is not to say that all people of wealth and power are like this, or that western medicine does not have its benefits in some cases. Of course there are many compassionate healers in Western Medicine practices, but sadly, natural medicine and teaching people knowledge about how to unblock energy through touch and movement and use simple foods and herbs to heal is especially scary to people who want to enslave people to the system they have in place for so called health and happiness that involves getting them rich while poisoning people, plants, animals and the earth.

 

Hi Osalina,

 

great to meet another student of the history of medicine.

 

Medicine has always been a field of application of power. (As a healer once wrote, there's no power greater than the power of the healthy over the sick. Which is one reason the power usurpers want everybody sick, no exceptions.) Who, when, and how exactly usurped it is an inquiry that goes far and deep into the darkest places of the universe... as Yoda might have put it, the deepest darkest secrets of them all, they are. So without really going there, I just felt compelled to throw in a crumb for thought... so that "Chinese Communists" don't get the credit for the antics of the archons.

[Osalina]

Dear Taomeow,

 

I am really fascinated by history. In my book the Alchemy of the 5 Elements, and Legend of the Beet Brothers, I teach history intermingled with herbology, nutrition, 5 elements, anatomy and physiology, poetry, mythology, science, etc... I also teach about some of the history related to Alchemy. I even go back to Paracelsus the father of what later became chemistry, although he was more like the Taoist and combined a understanding of physical chemistry with the more subtle aspects of mind and spirit and the mystical. In my series of the Legend of the Beet Brothers as they move into the Alchemy of Foods and Herbs after graduating in the 5 Elements and 5 Senses from the College of Alchemy for Plants to teach humans the 5 Elements, they travel the world learning from plants.

 

This format allows me to teach about the history of each plant, its origins and journey as it was traded and brought to various lands, as well as the wars, slavery and corruption that sometimes occurred between humans from what I feel is a plants perspective. I can also teach about when humans started genetically modifying certain plants or plants especially heavily sprayed or exploited. The effects of the oil spills and radiation leaks on some of our sea plant friends, and where to find the least affected and healthiest sources, etc... I teach about each plants many healing uses and other uses as well. I find this a great format for me to educate people about many of the serious issues we are facing as a planet and offer solutions for changes to correct these imbalances both in our human bodies, and the body of earth. History can teach us a lot and when put into an imaginative children's story using puns, play's on words and humor whenever possible. My idea is to make my courses more entertaining to read, as when we get too serious as humans, I find we get too depressed to really do anything about our problems, or paranoid and mean.

 

I find watching the Daily Show to get my news makes it more palatable; as the regular news makes me so angry and is so often dishonest lies, that watching the daily show, in my opinion relays more truth as to what is really going on and allows me to take in the information more. Did you write the story on the Allian.wordpress? That was really well written and quite engaging with the woman in the airport. It is so funny how different other cultures are from American. Keep Shining

 

Osalina

[Ya Mu]

Dear Taomeow,

 

I am really fascinated by history. In my book the Alchemy of the 5 Elements, and Legend of the Beet Brothers, I teach history intermingled with herbology, nutrition, 5 elements, anatomy and physiology, poetry, mythology, science, etc... I also teach about some of the history related to Alchemy. I even go back to Paracelsus the father of what later became chemistry, although he was more like the Taoist and combined a understanding of physical chemistry with the more subtle aspects of mind and spirit and the mystical. In my series of the Legend of the Beet Brothers as they move into the Alchemy of Foods and Herbs after graduating in the 5 Elements and 5 Senses from the College of Alchemy for Plants to teach humans the 5 Elements, they travel the world learning from plants.

 

This format allows me to teach about the history of each plant, its origins and journey as it was traded and brought to various lands, as well as the wars, slavery and corruption that sometimes occurred between humans from what I feel is a plants perspective. I can also teach about when humans started genetically modifying certain plants or plants especially heavily sprayed or exploited. The effects of the oil spills and radiation leaks on some of our sea plant friends, and where to find the least affected and healthiest sources, etc... I teach about each plants many healing uses and other uses as well. I find this a great format for me to educate people about many of the serious issues we are facing as a planet and offer solutions for changes to correct these imbalances both in our human bodies, and the body of earth. History can teach us a lot and when put into an imaginative children's story using puns, play's on words and humor whenever possible. My idea is to make my courses more entertaining to read, as when we get too serious as humans, I find we get too depressed to really do anything about our problems, or paranoid and mean.

 

I find watching the Daily Show to get my news makes it more palatable; as the regular news makes me so angry and is so often dishonest lies, that watching the daily show, in my opinion relays more truth as to what is really going on and allows me to take in the information more. Did you write the story on the Allian.wordpress? That was really well written and quite engaging with the woman in the airport. It is so funny how different other cultures are from American. Keep Shining

 

Osalina

 

 

edit: Here is her new link:

http://books.etarot....urse_1_Volume_1

Edited May 31, 2012 by Ya Mu

[ChiDragon]

Dear Osalina...

 

As far as some of my own insights on this that pops out as obvious. Also these theories may be why the Chinese translated what in Ayurvedic Medicine is called Ether for Wood and Metal for Air to explain these relationships. I must say from here on out some of this theory, I am speaking comes in part from my own theory in trying to understand what ancient people of thousands of years ago were trying to explain.

 

Regarding to the "Ayurvedic Medicine is called Ether for Wood and Metal for Air to explain these relationships." The first thing that come across my mind about "Metal for Air" was a little mixed up in the cross link from the Hindus. The five elements in their system is different from the Chinese.

 

The Five Elements of the Hindu are earth, water, fire, air and sky.

The Chinese system are metal, wood, water, fire, and earth(soil).

The Hindu treats the 'air' as the "air and space which is the wind".

 

 

My Ref link: The Hindu Five Elements

Edited May 28, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Friend]

Chidragon,

 

you try to explain 5 Elements to a professional with 30 years expirience in non western traditional Chinese Medicine and who bring out a book about 5 Elements.

 

@Osalina: I am curious about the book you wrote since I was asking in the past about charts of the chinese elemental changing phase. Will looking forward to it,

 

Keep shining as well,

Q

[Taomeow]

Dear Taomeow,

 

I am really fascinated by history. In my book the Alchemy of the 5 Elements, and Legend of the Beet Brothers, I teach history intermingled with herbology, nutrition, 5 elements, anatomy and physiology, poetry, mythology, science, etc... I also teach about some of the history related to Alchemy. I even go back to Paracelsus the father of what later became chemistry, although he was more like the Taoist and combined a understanding of physical chemistry with the more subtle aspects of mind and spirit and the mystical. In my series of the Legend of the Beet Brothers as they move into the Alchemy of Foods and Herbs after graduating in the 5 Elements and 5 Senses from the College of Alchemy for Plants to teach humans the 5 Elements, they travel the world learning from plants.

 

This format allows me to teach about the history of each plant, its origins and journey as it was traded and brought to various lands, as well as the wars, slavery and corruption that sometimes occurred between humans from what I feel is a plants perspective. I can also teach about when humans started genetically modifying certain plants or plants especially heavily sprayed or exploited. The effects of the oil spills and radiation leaks on some of our sea plant friends, and where to find the least affected and healthiest sources, etc... I teach about each plants many healing uses and other uses as well. I find this a great format for me to educate people about many of the serious issues we are facing as a planet and offer solutions for changes to correct these imbalances both in our human bodies, and the body of earth. History can teach us a lot and when put into an imaginative children's story using puns, play's on words and humor whenever possible. My idea is to make my courses more entertaining to read, as when we get too serious as humans, I find we get too depressed to really do anything about our problems, or paranoid and mean.

 

I find watching the Daily Show to get my news makes it more palatable; as the regular news makes me so angry and is so often dishonest lies, that watching the daily show, in my opinion relays more truth as to what is really going on and allows me to take in the information more. Did you write the story on the Allian.wordpress? That was really well written and quite engaging with the woman in the airport. It is so funny how different other cultures are from American. Keep Shining

 

Osalina

 

Sounds like you're doing a great job. I'm going to check out your books.

 

I always thought Paracelsus was the devil though. Didn't he come up with the "one disease, one remedy" model that became the method and madness of "modern Western medicine?" Didn't he introduce a whole bunch of highly toxic substances as medicines on the merit of their ability to suppress symptoms, notably mercury as the single best remedy for "human vices" in general, the bane of Western civilization ever since? (A hundred years from his time, an author of the anatomy book for doctors asserted that mercury is a natural constituent of the human bones, because he had never seen a skeleton not affected -- doctors started blanket-prescribing it for everything, in particular as a cough and cold remedy for children, among other things.) I'll be curious to check out your sources. (Mine is "The Healing Arts" by Ted Kaptchuk, OMD).

 

Yup, "Ailian" is me (that's the translation of my name into Chinese offered by my Chinese teacher), glad you liked the blog!

[Apech]

Medicine is not only a science; it is also an art. It does not consist of compounding pills and plasters; it deals with the very processes of life, which must be understood before they may be guided. Paracelsus

[Osalina]

Dear Ya Mu,

 

Thanks for posting my Book Link. I had published it already and recently decided to do some revisions and was not aware till today that CreateSpace puts it in a holding pattern. I am actually glad that is the case and I think I may even add a little on Ayurvedic translations of the Elements, today, which once again puts it into another 48 hour review process. But the great thing about CreateSpace, is you can order a book from them or through Amazon.com and other online stores they link it too and they print on demand, so I can edit and make changes at any point I choose, without having to print up thousands of books.

 

Also thank you ChiDragon for the info on Ayurvedic 5 Elements. Actually Space is also called Ether in Ayurvedic and the Senses and Sense organs are also different in Ayurvedic than they are in Chinese 5 Elements. I am actually more familiar with Chinese 5 Elements. However, I do plan to study Ayurvedic more in depth. I must say though that when I think of Elements and for the purpose of my book, I do not think of metal as an element nor wood and although I do include the Chinese translations, to my mind, elements are earth, water, fire and air. Ether was just the closest term to what I could refer to as an element, and since in Ayurvedic it is listed as a element, in some ways it is even a stretch to call it that. But since wood is definitely not what one would call an element, but more an object in nature, I tried to translate this system in a way that I felt made more sense in terms of the English language and getting people to respect the elements of nature and see how we all connect and how these organs function relate to elements.

 

A great site for Ayurvedic Element descriptions is http://www.holistic-online.com/ayurveda/ayv-basis-five-great-elements.htm

 

In Ayurvedic the Elements are described as

Element - Ether (Space) Senses - Hearing

Sense Organ - Ears Action - Speech

Organ of Action - Vocal Chords, Tongue, Mouth

 

Element - Air Senses - Touch

Sense Organ - Skin Action - Holding

Organ of Action - Hands

 

Element - Fire Senses - Vision

Sense Organ - Eyes Action - Walking

Organ of Action - Feet

 

Element - Water Senses - Taste

Sense Organ - Tongue Action - Procreation

Organ of Action - Genitals

 

Element - Earth Senses - Smell

Sense Organ - Nose Action - Excretion

Organ of Action - Anus

 

 

As compared to Chinese Medicine

Element - Ether (Wood) Senses - Sight (Vision)

Sense Organ - Eyes Action - Thoughts?

Organs, Glands and Systems - Brain, Nerves, Pituitary,Pineal, Liver, Gallbladder

 

Element - Air (Metal) Senses - Smell

Sense Organ - Nose Action - Breathing

Organs, Glands and Systems - Lungs, Skin, Large Intestines, Thyroid, Throat, Vocal Cords, Respiratory System

 

Element - Fire Senses - Touch

Sense Organ - Hands Action - Feeling?

Organs, Glands and Systems - Heart, Small Intestines, Thymus, Lymphatic, Circulatory

 

 

Element - Water Senses - Hearing

Sense Organ - Ears Action - Procreation

Organs, Glands and Systems - Genitals, Bladder, Kidneys, Adrenals, Skeletal, Urinary, Reproductive

 

Element - Earth Senses - Taste

Sense Organ - Mouth and Tongue Action - Eating and Movement? Organs, Glands and Systems - Stomach, esophagus, spleen, pancreas, muscular system

 

 

In Ayurvedic the organs and systems are more described by action and more in terms of solid, gaseous, liquid, etc... such as

Earth is the solid, bones, muscles, tissues

 

Water is the Liquids, blood, lymph, urine and waters that transport the goods

 

Fire is the power of transforming solids into liquids, and to gas and back again. Perhaps bile, stomach acids, enzymes, etc... may fit, but I am uncertain. However, these are the things that do turn solids into liquids and gas

 

Air is the gas and oxygen in the body and it is air that is required for fire to burn

 

Ether - is the Space - where everything happens.

 

So each system has its own way of looking at things and each has a logic of its own if you contemplate the reasoning.

 

I think the organ associations have to do with taste a lot as well in Chinese Medicine.

 

Fire: Bitter stimulates bile in small intestines and also increases circulation as well as hot foods. I see small intestines as fire in it being the digestive organ that helps cook foods into liquid nutrients for heart and being as heart pumps warm blood and circulation is what gives us the fire to move and circulate energy, the thymus regulates heat, and lymph helps burn germs, in one sense to fight bacteria. Bitter stimulates bile that transforms solids into liquids, I refer to bitter as heating in that sense. In Ayurvedic, bitter is consider having a cooling, but drying affect. Bitter herbs often have antipyretic and cooling properties or diaphoretic, but often through heating causing sweat to cool the body down

 

Earth: The Spleen/Pancreas connection to sweet in producing insulin, turning starches into sugar. also carbohydrates for muscles and the solid aspect of Earth is also the muscles and tissues. Mouth and Taste perhaps were seen as one of the first senses we experience, when nursing our own mother like earth. I do not know but this is how I envision this relationship.

 

Air (Metal): Pungent and Aromatic tastes relates to air because pungent and aromatic smells are released into air. To me Respiratory seems most natural for air element. Air is breathed in through the Nose, and Lungs and passed out the Large Intestines. The Thyroid metabolizes oxygen in its relationship to air.

 

Water: is Salty like the lakes and oceans have all the mineral salts from plants and sands. To me urinary seems obvious as a water element system - kidneys, adrenals and bladder. Reproductive as we are conceived in fluids in sperm and egg and live within a watery womb and skeletal because the bones are made up of mineral salts from the seas and lakes.

 

Ether (Wood): Sour; Could also be associated with some actions of Liver /Gallbladder. Brain, Pituitary, Pineal ( This is the more mystical aspect of body) where thoughts generated from ether's and they float around in space) Nervous system as Nerve cells are characterized by their ability to conduct electrochemical energy forms called nerve impulses. This to me has correlations with Chi, life force energy, although not quite the same and meridian channels are different, I feel there is a link. Liver/Gallbladder because the liver helps to break substance down to nutrients for the brain and nerves. I still have a hard time with these associations and between wood and ether and liver/gallbladder, perhaps someone here could add to the Liver/Gallbladder connection to Wood in Chinese Medicine.

Edited May 28, 2012 by Osalina

[寒月 Hanyue]

Thanks for the link, I did say I was trying to keep it short

 

There are many aspects and threads that go into how and why and when Chinese medicine became TCM, but its probably best for another thread, but I don't have time at the moment

 

Best,

 

The rabbit hole goes deeper... how about Rockefeller investing $45,000,000 in 1927 (perhaps equivalent to $ billions today) into "Westernizing" Chinese medicine?.. Check out, e.g.,

 

http://www.whale.to/b/ruesch.html

[Osalina]

Dear Friend,

 

I appreciate your interest in my book. I am so enjoying the interchange of ideas and concepts. Some of the points that ChiDragon is helping me formulate is the translations of Ayurvedic Elements as compared to Chinese Medicine, so it inspired me to add an extra page or two to my book, which may delay the preview once again for another day or so. But should be available https://www.createspace.com/3873078 by the 1st.

 

When I first printed and laminated my 5 Element Charts and my book was around in 2002, 10 years ago. My goal was to teach 5 Elements in a relative format to people to encourage a deeper understanding of the connection we have with the elements, a way to teach their inter-relations with organs, glands and systems and how their bodies work, the 5 taste and how that relates to various herbs and foods related to those elements and organs, glands and systems as well as emotions and 5 senses. This was all coming mostly from Chinese 5 Element theory, only I borrowed from Ayurvedic Ether or also called (Space), and Air (Metal) as I felt these names for the Elements make more sense to people in terms of what we think of in terms of what we call Elements.

 

However; since there are so many differences in Ayurvedic 5 Elements, I think adding a page or two describing these differences may bring greater clarification to people who have just studied Ayurvedic and ones who have just studied Chinese 5 Element to show both aspects. Of course Ayurvedic is a whole science in itself and as Apech pointed out that Medicine is not only a science it is an art and understanding the depths of mulch-layered meanings requires deep contemplation. By the way Apech - I may have mentioned Paracelsus is in my book when Frances the Fragrance Fairy tells some of the history of Alchemy with the Beet Brothers, she speaks of Paracelsus as the Father of Modern Chemistry, but also very much into the Mystery Schools and Spiritual aspects of healing in Alchemy. Keep shining and thanks for all the feedback, links and ideas

 

Much Love,

 

Osalina