Looking for guidance in starting my spiritual journey

[AdrianC]

I am very interested in starting a spiritual journey but I am unsure whether Taoism or Buddhism is the right path for me.

 

My goal is to have a mind free of all negative thoughts. I don't want to think negatively of myself or others. At the same time, I'd like to be peaceful and calm. I emphasize being calm because I feel as if my mind sometimes goes 100 miles an hour and I'm not able to slow down and comprehend what is going on. I feel as if I may have ADHD because I have many of the symptoms but I have never been diagnosed.

 

Also, if anyone has knowledge on the subject, I'd like to train in a martial art that has philosophies related to Taoism or Buddhism (whichever is better for me) that is great for self defense. One that tries to subdue the opponent without causing bodily harm but is able to handle dangerous situations (such as a knife attach, possible multiple opponents) effectively.

 

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

No need to choose only one really. Lots of Taoist and Buddhist writing borrows from each other.

 

To avoid judging people all together I would say Buddhism is more geared towards that, especially in the Bodhisattva paths and writings such as from Shanti Deva. Studying with an experienced Taoist teacher could also be very humbling however, perhaps making one realize that they really aren't qualified to qualify anyone's worth, including themselves, and being rather content with such a position.

 

One martial art with which to apply Taoist philosophy while also having balance between offense and defense is Baguazhang. Chen Style Tai Chi as well.

 

Doing a search on "sitting and forgetting" or "zuowang" meditation might help quiet the mind.

 

For ADHD you could check out Synaptol, a homeopathic remedy without amphetimines, if it is seriously effecting your life. I would get a proper diagnosis first though, at least from an accredited Doctor of Naturopathy (ND).

[AdrianC]

It's funny you use the word judge because I did't think of it that way but now I realize I do that a lot.

 

I hate to ask the question because of the range of answers I can get but I'll try to make it as specific to me as possible. What is the main difference between what Taoism and Buddhism can do for me considering the mindset I'd like to achieve? I am not looking for a religion or God to follow, rather a path to a life of freedom. Can I go wrong with either one? If I could choose either, what will be the ultimate difference?

 

My possible ADHD is more of a situational problem. The best way I can describe it is that at times I try to fit a square into a circle and rather than paying attention to begin with or at the first sign of a problem, I try to jam it in. I want to clear my mind of all the clutter and learn to give all my focus to on one thing at a time.

 

I'll look into Baguazhang and Chen Style Tai Chi, the latter especially because I've read how it has been used as a way to calm down those with ADHD.

[ChiDragon]

Taoism is a free choice of life style to be blended in with Nature.

 

General speaking, Buddhism is a way to run away from society to have a different life style other than a materialistic one. Normally, a person had went through a bitter situation once in life and wanted to be detached from it all. Hence, one follows into the Buddhist path.

[AdrianC]

So if I wanted a nice car, a nice house, nice clothes and all that, would it conflict with Buddhist beliefs?

[Apech]

So if I wanted a nice car, a nice house, nice clothes and all that, would it conflict with Buddhist beliefs?

 

No. Buddhists I have come into contact with view wealth and success as evidence of previous good acts and a positive thing. Attachment to such things is a problem of course.

 

I would suggest you read round about Buddhism and Taoism to get a good idea about both ways.

[AdrianC]

I have this book as an audiobook , do you have any opinions on it? Feel free to give me advice on any readings that would enlighten me on the subjects.

[RiverSnake]

So if I wanted a nice car, a nice house, nice clothes and all that, would it conflict with Buddhist beliefs?

 

Both Buddhism and Taoism emphasize letting go of attachments because they cause suffering. An example would be that people work themselves to death so they can have a nice house and a nice car...and then need to keep working in order to keep them.

 

You can have material possessions without being emotionally and psychologically attached to them...however this is more the exception than the norm...once you realize how much pain desires cause you most people on the path readily give up there excess desires.

 

------------------

 

Personally i enjoy Taoism more because it emphasizes personal practice (Chi Kung) and experience more than it does dogma. In Taoism they say "stop asking questions, here is the techniques you need, go practice and see what the journey is like for yourself."

 

Buddhism although it has a lot in common with Taoism tends more towards scripture and dogma....meaning believing the 4 Noble Truths and following the 8 Fold Path.

 

There are tons of threads on Buddhism and Taoism on this site. Read to your hearts content.

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

[Harmonious Emptiness]

It's funny you use the word judge because I did't think of it that way but now I realize I do that a lot.

 

 

One practice for clearing the mind is to suspend any thought of good or bad, right or wrong, just take "as is" and enjoy the different colours. This is as important in Taoism as it is in Buddhism.

 

 

I hate to ask the question because of the range of answers I can get but I'll try to make it as specific to me as possible. What is the main difference between what Taoism and Buddhism can do for me considering the mindset I'd like to achieve? I am not looking for a religion or God to follow, rather a path to a life of freedom. Can I go wrong with either one? If I could choose either, what will be the ultimate difference?

 

 

I would suggest learning Taoist practices while studying Buddhist and Taoist writing. I find that Taoism and Buddhism sort of hold a couple of puzzle pieces of the other which make it much easier to understand and some of the others teaching.

 

I suggest picking up a copy of The Sutra of Hui Neng for the Buddhist side of things in your case since it has a lot that can be worked on by yourself.

 

Practicing Taoist martial arts can lead to freedom as the spirit follows the body and the mind learns to just sit back and watch. Starting with some basic Chi Kung breathing first is highly advisable.

 

 

My possible ADHD is more of a situational problem. The best way I can describe it is that at times I try to fit a square into a circle and rather than paying attention to begin with or at the first sign of a problem, I try to jam it in. I want to clear my mind of all the clutter and learn to give all my focus to on one thing at a time.

 

I'll look into Baguazhang and Chen Style Tai Chi, the latter especially because I've read how it has been used as a way to calm down those with ADHD.

 

Some vipissana practice can be good too, and practiced during Chi Kung or Tai Chi, just paying attention (just observing, not judging or trying to understand) all sensations, emotions, feelings etc. to paraphrase "when you take a large breath, you know that you take a large breath, when you take a small breath you know that you take a small breath. When you are starting to breath in, you know that you are starting to breath in. When breathing out... when you smell earth... when an emotion starts to rise...."

[Simple_Jack]

I am very interested in starting a spiritual journey but I am unsure whether Taoism or Buddhism is the right path for me.

 

My goal is to have a mind free of all negative thoughts. I don't want to think negatively of myself or others. At the same time, I'd like to be peaceful and calm. I emphasize being calm because I feel as if my mind sometimes goes 100 miles an hour and I'm not able to slow down and comprehend what is going on. I feel as if I may have ADHD because I have many of the symptoms but I have never been diagnosed.

 

Also, if anyone has knowledge on the subject, I'd like to train in a martial art that has philosophies related to Taoism or Buddhism (whichever is better for me) that is great for self defense. One that tries to subdue the opponent without causing bodily harm but is able to handle dangerous situations (such as a knife attach, possible multiple opponents) effectively.

 

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.

I recommend avoiding TTB's, if you want accurate information on Taoism and Buddhism (especially on the latter.) It's best if you do your research off of this website.

 

Unfortunately, I couldn't find any links on downloadable pdf's of books from Eva Wong, that weren't torrents; if I linked them, I'm worried they would be deleted by the moderators. I found a website with both basic and more advanced stuff to read on the topic of "Taoism" (www.daoistcenter.org;) I think you should start by reading this: My link (Common Misconceptions Concerning Daoism.)

 

As for Buddhism, there are a lot more websites (go figure, huh?) that have pdf's already online; that are provided without worry of copyright laws. I think it would be best to start out with Wapola Rahula's What The Buddha Taught. Here's a link to a pdf of the complete book: My link [An alternate in case that link isn't working My link]

 

It's linked from this website My link (it has a bunch of articles from talks given by different "venerables" of Theravada Buddhism.) This is also a good website where you can stream/download talks from different teachers from retreats spanning back to the 70's: My link.

 

This website I found has (mostly) Buddhist, Confuciast, and Taoist (mostly different translations of the Tao Te Ching) pdf's of books you can read: My link.

 

A good read on the basics of meditation instructions and philosophy of Zen: My link.

 

I also recommend Nan Huai Chin's The Story of Chinese Taoism from meditationexpert.com, if you don't mind shelling out $24 for an e-book. It goes over the history of Taoism and the philosophy of Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu among other stuff.

Edited May 27, 2012 by Simple_Jack

[ChiDragon]

So if I wanted a nice car, a nice house, nice clothes and all that, would it conflict with Buddhist beliefs?

 

Yes, you are. However, now-a-days, some of the modern Buddhists do not live up to their original believes.

 

The Chinese Taoist do abide by their own rules. That is why you never see a fat Taoist but a fat Buddhist monk....

Edited May 27, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Simple_Jack]

Both Buddhism and Taoism emphasize letting go of attachments because they cause suffering. An example would be that people work themselves to death so they can have a nice house and a nice car...and then need to keep working in order to keep them.

 

You can have material possessions without being emotionally and psychologically attached to them...however this is more the exception than the norm...once you realize how much pain desires cause you most people on the path readily give up there excess desires.

 

------------------

 

Personally i enjoy Taoism more because it emphasizes personal practice (Chi Kung) and experience more than it does dogma. In Taoism they say "stop asking questions, here is the techniques you need, go practice and see what the journey is like for yourself."

 

Buddhism although it has a lot in common with Taoism tends more towards scripture and dogma....meaning believing the 4 Noble Truths and following the 8 Fold Path.

 

There are tons of threads on Buddhism and Taoism on this site. Read to your hearts content.

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

Personally i enjoy Taoism more because it emphasizes personal practice (Chi Kung) and experience more than it does dogma. In Taoism they say "stop asking questions, here is the techniques you need, go practice and see what the journey is like for yourself."

Go tell that to the people over on dharmaoverground (My link)

 

Buddhism although it has a lot in common with Taoism tends more towards scripture and dogma....meaning believing the 4 Noble Truths and following the 8 Fold Path.

It should be about proving the teachings instead of just accepting them on blind faith (at least that's how I look at it and how I eventually accepted the teachings for myself.)

 

Also, how is the 1st of 4 noble truths not already self-evident?

 

My link

The four truths are presented within the Buddha's first discourse, Setting in Motion the Wheel of the Dharma (Dharmacakra Pravartana Sūtra). An English translation is as follows:[web 3]

 

"This is the noble truth of dukkha: birth is dukkha, aging is dukkha, illness is dukkha, death is dukkha; sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair are dukkha; union with what is displeasing is dukkha; separation from what is pleasing is dukkha; not to get what one wants is dukkha; in brief, the five aggregates subject to clinging are dukkha."

"This is the noble truth of the origin of dukkha: it is this craving which leads to renewed existence, accompanied by delight and lust, seeking delight here and there, that is, craving for sensual pleasures, craving for existence, craving for extermination."

"This is the noble truth of the cessation of dukkha: it is the remainderless fading away and cessation of that same craving, the giving up and relinquishing of it, freedom from it, nonreliance on it."

"This is the noble truth of the way leading to the cessation of dukkha: it is the Noble Eightfold Path; that is, right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness and right concentration.

 

EDIT: There is more than one way to translate "dukkha." 'Dukkha (Pāli; Sanskrit: duḥkha; Tibetan phonetic: dukngal) is a Buddhist term commonly translated as "suffering", "stress", "anxiety", or "dissatisfaction". Dukkha is identified as the first of the Four Noble Truths' (My link.)

Edited May 27, 2012 by Simple_Jack

[mjjbecker]

I am very interested in starting a spiritual journey but I am unsure whether Taoism or Buddhism is the right path for me.

 

My goal is to have a mind free of all negative thoughts. I don't want to think negatively of myself or others. At the same time, I'd like to be peaceful and calm. I emphasize being calm because I feel as if my mind sometimes goes 100 miles an hour and I'm not able to slow down and comprehend what is going on. I feel as if I may have ADHD because I have many of the symptoms but I have never been diagnosed.

 

Also, if anyone has knowledge on the subject, I'd like to train in a martial art that has philosophies related to Taoism or Buddhism (whichever is better for me) that is great for self defense. One that tries to subdue the opponent without causing bodily harm but is able to handle dangerous situations (such as a knife attach, possible multiple opponents) effectively.

 

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.

 

Keep in mind your goal-peace of mind. That is fundamental, not the means. Reaching peace of mind through a religion may, or may not, be the right path for you. Personally, I would recommend you try the Sedona Method, as it works on exactly what you are seeking but has no religious leanings. There is a comprehensive book available for a very reasonable price. Larry Crane also has some good information on this.

 

As for martial arts, there are some commonly held myths to be addressed. Firstly, not many instructors are capable or qualified to teach 'self defence'. It goes way beyond simply learning a martial art-and it is questionable how many martial arts are appropriate-or effective-for modern day use. If you are attacked by multiple opponents, or someone with a knife, you may well be lucky to escape with your life, never mind being concerned about trying to subdue them. And, if you do escape relatively unharmed, there are the legal issues-you might find the police and local authorities trying to have you locked up.

 

Let me be blunt. Lose whatever fantasies you might have in regards to martial arts masters effortlessly dispatching attackers. Such things are for the movies. In reality classical Chinese martial arts worked on killing and maiming the attacker as effectively as possible. Taijiquan is as vicious a martial art you could hope to find, with numerous methods of seriously injuring/killing a person.

 

If you are serious about self defence, then you need to educate yourself with sensible advice, and lose the preconceptions you've formed. Some starters for you:

 

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/

http://massadayoobgroup.com/

http://www.cnsds.com/

 

These are just the tip of the iceberg. If self defence is a real issue for you, then you owe it to yourself to do some serious investigation into the issue. That means seeking out advice and information from those who really know. Forums are not the place on the whole, as they are more populated with opinion than experience.

 

If you want to practice a martial art for the personal benefits it can give you, that is certainly worthwhile. In that case, you need to look for something that suits you on a physical and psychological level. If you have physical limitations this is going to be important in regards to what you choose. On a psychological level, you need something that fits you also. Muay Thai vs aikido for example. An instructor and training group that you are happy with is also fundamental.

 

Internet forums may provide a few pointers, but you need to do the hard work and do the real research and testing for yourself. You cannot-and must not-allow others to dictate this for you. You have to find what is right for you, and you will need to do the leg work.

[AdrianC]

Wow I didn't expect such feedback, I really appreciate all the input.

 

I'm going to check out the books mentioned and look into Eva Wong. I can learn about both subjects regardless of which I decide to choose anyway.

 

As for the self defense martial arts, I'll definitely take mjjbecker's advice and give it some more research as well as checking out those sites. I've done some reading on Tai Chi and the health benefits really appeal to me.

 

I know there are some Buddhist "retreats" where you spend upwards of 6 months at a monastery and you learn the practices. I've read that it is an incredible spiritual journey but I was wondering if there is the same for Taoist?

[Protector]

They're building a fancy hotel for tourists right next to the Wudang mountain, might be what you're looking for but I find it hilarious

[ChiDragon]

They're building a fancy hotel for tourists right next to the Wudang mountain, might be what you're looking for but I find it hilarious

 

Westerners are crazy to go to China to learn the Taoist stuff and spoil the Chinese. The Chinese developers saw that is coming and why not build hotels to accommodate them...

[Wayfarer]

Hey Adrian,

 

Although I don't practise either of these any longer I think they would suit you based on what you have said.

 

1) Whichever country you are in see if there is a local Thich Nhat Hanh group. In the UK it is called the Community of Interbeing and the HQ for Europe is called Plum Village and there is also a large following in the States. Google/You Tube any of those to see more. You will find a practice based on compassion, dealing with negativity, nature and calmness. It focuses much on dealing with our suffering and sharing the wisdom of the Sangha.

 

2) Aikido. It has some long winded moves that are practised mainly to maintain the history of the art but it also has some useful stuff. Mainly arm locks, pins and throws. Punches etc are mainly as a distraction to help secure a hold. You will also likely get much spiritual benefit from the founder's books and writings Morihei Ueshiba. I'll leave you to do the research. It is rooted in Aikijutsu which was a Samurai art and was mainly used if the warrior dropped his weapon during a fight - so lots of the moves are based on open hand against Katana (Samurai sword), knife and Jo.

 

Main differences between Taoism and Buddhism: Essentially they are the same teaching at their core. What Buddha witnessed under the tree was Tao and what Lao Tsu noticed in forests and mountains was Buddha-Nature. Same could be said of all religions - Christ is no different than Tao. Where the differences occur is in how each religion has been interpreted over the years. Buddhism focuses a lot on the idea of suffering and mindfulness of being in the moment however Zen focuses mainly on noticing true-nature. If anyone here can say what Taoism is they are a better person than me! It has its root in nature and stillness but then cosmology and ritual - depends which tradition. If you follow the main Quanzhen, Longmen (Dragon Gate tradition) the teachings combine Taoism, Buddhism and Confucianism and you can recognise each in its approach and teachings. To decide which is best comes down to what you prefer. A focus on nature, simple living and settling/quieting your energy (more likely Taoism), engaging with suffering, interactions with people, loving-kindness etc Buddhism.

 

Hope this helps. Don't forget, nothing you choose has to be forever, take a look, much of what you decide will come down to whether you like the people who you practise with and how the teacher interprets that particular style, rather than the tradition itself.

 

Heath

 

 

 

 

I am very interested in starting a spiritual journey but I am unsure whether Taoism or Buddhism is the right path for me.

 

My goal is to have a mind free of all negative thoughts. I don't want to think negatively of myself or others. At the same time, I'd like to be peaceful and calm. I emphasize being calm because I feel as if my mind sometimes goes 100 miles an hour and I'm not able to slow down and comprehend what is going on. I feel as if I may have ADHD because I have many of the symptoms but I have never been diagnosed.

 

Also, if anyone has knowledge on the subject, I'd like to train in a martial art that has philosophies related to Taoism or Buddhism (whichever is better for me) that is great for self defense. One that tries to subdue the opponent without causing bodily harm but is able to handle dangerous situations (such as a knife attach, possible multiple opponents) effectively.

 

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.