Merging the formless with the formed

[idiot_stimpy]

Merging the formless with the formed - Does this have any meaning to anyone?

 

Merging heaven and earth.

 

 

And when they have merged, what is there left?

[Jeff]

Merging the formless with the formed - Does this have any meaning to anyone?

 

Merging heaven and earth.

 

 

And when they have merged, what is there left?

 

It is integrating (being able to perceive) "layers" of consciousness. Form & formless or earth & heaven... All layers are always present (or merged), it is just a question of where your attention is...

 

[thelerner]

Merging the formless with the formed - Does this have any meaning to anyone?

 

Merging heaven and earth.

 

 

And when they have merged, what is there left?

The sacred.

 

Everything is the same,

and everything is sacred.

[konchog uma]

Merging the formless with the formed - Does this have any meaning to anyone?

 

Merging heaven and earth.

 

 

And when they have merged, what is there left?

 

cool thoughts... it means to me, even though objects exist, the underlying essence of them is pure energy. in the world of objects, there are all different kinds of objects, but in the world of energy, there are just a handful of kinds of energy. they are probably all one, but nobody really has proven that yet to my knowledge hopefully those physicists will get crackin on that

 

good thoughts, there is more in common with things than there will ever be different (just like people), all the way up to the oneness of everything. When our minds realize that, a lot of dualistic discursiveness stops, and a lot of comparison and competition based thought, and poverty mentality stops. So its a really useful thing to contemplate. lol hard to talk about tho

 

so what is there left? hopefully tranquility and insight, bliss and wisdom, and so forth. without all those opposites competing for "right" and "better" in your mind, there will hopefully be more room for all that stuff

[3bob]

Merging the formless with the formed - Does this have any meaning to anyone?

 

Merging heaven and earth.

 

And when they have merged, what is there left?

 

In a way the word "return" can be used for part of an explanation here along with the word "merge"; thus it could be said that there is a return through layers of permutations to the less permutated... yet it is important to realize that all layers and permutations are connected; - by the way and in relation to this we may hear someone say, "all is illusion" or "all is samsara" and ask ourselves what does that really mean or how can that be if all layers and permutations are connected? For example: - if we borrow some Buddhist terminology for a moment and overlay it with the ladder implications (which some may accept and others reject) it would mean that the "beyond the beyond" (which is sometimes intellectually obsessed upon by some at the expense of everything else) is also connected to the various "liberations" (as described by doctrine) back to the 1st jhana and also from that back to lesser states; - thus if the 1st jhana is connected to yet is obviously not the same as the "beyond the beyond" then is it correct to dismiss it as "illusion", or is such really samsara not fully understood which when understood is nirvana - as given by certain Buddhist teachings?

 

When the Earth (as a form of being or soul on a far different scale than us) returns to or evolves to only a heavenly vibration then she is become a heaven (!) or a heavenly realm of being, thus no longer in the state of an earth which includes lots of more varied permutations and or vibrations.

 

What is "left" is that which never really left nor ever changed although it is still connected to change... good luck with that one :-) What is "left" as you've asked can not be divided, broken or undone as compared to various permutations (or aggregates if you prefer) can and will be, sooner or later. Also it can not be limited by or over-ridden by any powers of mind, all of which are "born" - further it is only known by Itself as Itself, or in using a more personal variation, by yourself as yourself.

 

Have fun

 

Om

Edited May 28, 2012 by 3bob

[Apech]

Merging the formless with the formed - Does this have any meaning to anyone?

 

Merging heaven and earth.

 

 

And when they have merged, what is there left?

 

In Egyptian mythology when the heaven (Nut) merged with earth (Geb) everything returned to the great void or abyss (the Nun). It was the end of the cycle of creation.

[Vmarco]

Merging the formless with the formed - Does this have any meaning to anyone?

 

Merging heaven and earth.

 

 

And when they have merged, what is there left?

 

 

It is very important that you understand the Formless NEVER merges with Form,...such a concept is an egoic delusion.

 

Yes, Form is birthed from Formlessness, the Manifest from the Unmanifest,...but there is NEVER a unity between the two,....Conditions can NEVER enter or merge with the Unconditional.

 

Merging the Form of Heaven with the Form of Earth is a different matter. Merging Yin/Yang with the One can occur,...although understanding the result would be denied by ego. The Tao is neither One or Many,...even though the Tao gave rise to the delusion of the One and Many. The conditions of neither the One nor Many can enter the Tao.

 

The merging of Heaven and Earth is their dissolution. The image on a theaters screen cannot merge with the Light, Still in the projector,...however, the image can merge, so-to-say, with the film (celluloid),...which to Undivided Light, is as unreal as the image on the screen.

 

V

[Vmarco]

[Fū Yue]

It is very important that you understand the Formless NEVER merges with Form,...such a concept is an egoic delusion.

 

I disagree. I think your idea that there can never be a consummation between the formless and the form is an egoic delusion.

[Vmarco]

I disagree. I think your idea that there can never be a consummation between the formless and the form is an egoic delusion.

 

Of course you do,...the majority of folks believe that they can bring their conditions into the Unconditional, as if the Unconditional could remain Unconditional with their conditions. Talk about delusion!

[Informer]

As if your thoughts of disillusionment are not a form of the formless.

 

Humans are like a nexus where form meets formless imo. Within formlessness is the ability to be every form, in infinite potential.

 

To be formless is like in meditation (empty), to give the formless a form is to give it a shape or sort of mold for it to form too, in most cases I refer to the functional channel (MCO) as these molds that can shape the formless to forms of energy.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Informer

[idiot_stimpy]

Thank you everyone, you have given very good pointers.

[Fū Yue]

Of course you do,...the majority of folks believe that they can bring their conditions into the Unconditional, as if the Unconditional could remain Unconditional with their conditions. Talk about delusion!

 

I've done it. Or rather, it was done. I've entered the mysterious pass and have given birth to an unspeakable existence, but it was premature. I'm sure there are others on this very forum that have done it, that are doing it. Your own beliefs are the only thing holding you back. What do you think the sole 'agenda' of the spiritual embryo is?

 

To endlessly shed conditions like a snake sheds it's skin, the form-mind will become married to the formless, it is only a matter of time.

 

From that point on you are no longer simply a man. You are undivided light, being whatever it is you wish to be in ecstacy. Such bliss comes from touching the abyssal Tathagata and knowing that you are not touching any thing at all. The endless intercourse between light and emptiness, the wisdom eye... at the center of it all, there is the Buddha, and he will accept whatever you give to him. Virtue arises spontaneously. The rays of sunyata shine forth..

[Aaron]

Merging the formless with the formed - Does this have any meaning to anyone?

 

Merging heaven and earth.

 

 

And when they have merged, what is there left?

 

The formless and formed are already merged, no merging needed. Heaven is the unseen, the mystery, earth is the seen. When they talk about merging the two, it's really meant to indicate that the person needs to become aware of their connection.

 

Aaron

[mYTHmAKER]

The formless and formed are already merged, no merging needed. Heaven is the unseen, the mystery, earth is the seen. When they talk about merging the two, it's really meant to indicate that the person needs to become aware of their connection.

 

Aaron

 

HEAVEN above

Man

EARTH below

[Vmarco]

I've done it. Or rather, it was done. I've entered the mysterious pass and have given birth to an unspeakable existence, but it was premature. I'm sure there are others on this very forum that have done it, that are doing it. Your own beliefs are the only thing holding you back. What do you think the sole 'agenda' of the spiritual embryo is?

 

To endlessly shed conditions like a snake sheds it's skin, the form-mind will become married to the formless, it is only a matter of time.

 

From that point on you are no longer simply a man. You are undivided light, being whatever it is you wish to be in ecstacy. Such bliss comes from touching the abyssal Tathagata and knowing that you are not touching any thing at all. The endless intercourse between light and emptiness, the wisdom eye... at the center of it all, there is the Buddha, and he will accept whatever you give to him. Virtue arises spontaneously. The rays of sunyata shine forth..

 

A Tathagata is merely that which is beyond Going and Coming,...that is the agenda of Spirit,...to lead you to the threshold of the Present, where Spirit cannot exist. Ego's journey is to return to Source,...which it can NEVER do,...the spiritual journey is profoundly abandoned when the 6 senses take the wheel of the illusory vehicle called the self.

 

Upon realizing Undivided Light, there is no you, no other, no center of it all. The Center is the One, and the Boundary is Yin/Yang. There is no Center within Undivided Light, nor a boundary. There is no Wisdom Eye, or other constructed conditions.

 

It is awesome that you had a premature, mysterious pass that gave birth to an unspeakable existence, with rays of sunyata shining forth. However, that is not Undivided Light. That is not the Tao.

 

Lao Tzu correctly said, "The Tao gives birth to One. One gives birth to yin and yang. Yin and yang give birth to all things." Yet the Tao is not One or Yin/yang. To realize the Tao, there is a going beyond One and Yin/Yang. That going beyond is going beyond the 6 senses. As Lao Tzu said, "Recognize that eveything you see and think is a falsehood, an illusion, a veil over the truth."

 

Yin/Yang does not integrate with the Tao,...nor the One. The One does not integrate with the Tao. Yin integrates Yang,...the integration of Yin with Yang is their dissolution. When Yin and Yang dissolve, like all positives dissolve when added to all negatives, the One simultaneously dissolves,...because there is no One without Yin/Yang, nor Yin/yang without One.

 

Sounds as if you had a wonderful, conditional experience,...if you become attached to it, and attached to some meaning attributed to it,...a barrier is manifested that obscures Undivided Light. Undivided Light NEVER marries the divided light of duality. Lao Tzu said, "Dualistic thinking is a sickness. Dualistist thinking thinks it can merge with non-duality. There is no merging of conditions with the Unconditional. Just as there is no Mass, Energy or Time beyond the threshold of the so-called speed of light.

 

All Mass, Energy or Time, and all that arises from Mass, Energy or Time, does not, and cannot, exist in the Tao.

 

Lao Tzu said, "the Tao doesn't come and go."

 

V

Edited May 29, 2012 by Vmarco

[Fū Yue]

A Tathagata is merely that which is beyond Going and Coming,...that is the agenda of Spirit,...to lead you to the threshold of the Present, where Spirit cannot exist. Ego's journey is to return to Source,...which it can NEVER do,...the spiritual journey is profoundly abandoned when the 6 senses take the wheel of the illusory vehicle called the self.

 

Upon realizing Undivided Light, there is no you, no other, no center of it all. The Center is the One, and the Boundary is Yin/Yang. There is no Center within Undivided Light, nor a boundary. There is no Wisdom Eye, or other constructed conditions.

 

It is awesome that you had a premature, mysterious pass that gave birth to an unspeakable existence, with rays of sunyata shining forth. However, that is not Undivided Light. That is not the Tao.

 

Lao Tzu correctly said, "The Tao gives birth to One. One gives birth to yin and yang. Yin and yang give birth to all things." Yet the Tao is not One or Yin/yang. To realize the Tao, there is a going beyond One and Yin/Yang. That going beyond is going beyond the 6 senses. As Lao Tzu said, "Recognize that eveything you see and think is a falsehood, an illusion, a veil over the truth."

 

Yin/Yang does not integrate with the Tao,...nor the One. The One does not integrate with the Tao. Yin integrates Yang,...the integration of Yin with Yang is their dissolution. When Yin and Yang dissolve, like all positives dissolve when added to all negatives, the One simultaneously dissolves,...because there is no One without Yin/Yang, nor Yin/yang without One.

 

Sounds as if you had a wonderful, conditional experience,...if you become attached to it, and attached to some meaning attributed to it,...a barrier is manifested that obscures Undivided Light. Undivided Light NEVER marries the divided light of duality. Lao Tzu said, "Dualistic thinking is a sickness. Dualistist thinking thinks it can merge with non-duality. There is no merging of conditions with the Unconditional. Just as there is no Mass, Energy or Time beyond the threshold of the so-called speed of light.

 

All Mass, Energy or Time, and all that arises from Mass, Energy or Time, does not, and cannot, exist in the Tao.

 

Lao Tzu said, "the Tao doesn't come and go."

 

V

 

You completely misinterpreted everything that I just said. You took it all at face-value rather than looking toward what I was pointing at. It sounds to me that you yourself have a barrier you've made with all these preconceived absolutes.

[3bob]

The formless and formed are already merged, no merging needed. Heaven is the unseen, the mystery, earth is the seen. When they talk about merging the two, it's really meant to indicate that the person needs to become aware of their connection.

 

Aaron

 

Yes, as to the connection(s), although the term merging is not a full anology imo; for instance electrical energy does not always exist in the same form, nor does it always have the same type of connections. For instance it can flow in copper wire and it can also flow through a transformer (the core of which has no wire) as an eletromagnetic field after which it can then be changed back again to flow through wire; in that sense an electromagnetic field can not directly "merge" with a wired electrical device which it can not make a connection to although it can and does make connection(s) via various types of transformers. I believe such is alluded to in TTC 43 with the saying of, "Only Nothing can enter into no-space".

(being that the 'transformation' which enables that type of 'connection' or entry to take place has been made)

 

Further, this anology above could be used with the idea/fact that a Great Sage has in place, operation and mastery all levels of transformers from the Tao to the One and on to the Ten Thousand and is thus able to connect or maintain connection to or with all levels of being with optimum and beneficial effect... (whereas "plants" in comparison, which were mentioned in another string, only have a few such transformer possibilities)

Edited May 29, 2012 by 3bob