Burnings in Burma

[Wayfarer64]

Dear Tao Bums,

 

This is a topic very important to me. I have spent several weeks in Burma and was always amazed at the depth of the Burmese people's good nature and compassionate undestanding of Buddhist practices.

 

These are remarkably kind and gentle people on the whole and deserve the eyes of the world to be upon them and the heinnous nature of their current illegal Government that usurped power from a democratically elected leader. In America there are companies such as UNICAL that are profiting from the Myanmar oppressions. Please let our leaders know that these corporations should be held acountable for their actions. And indeed that our governments should not be supporting this reign of terror!

 

Please take a moment to read this article-

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15757111/

 

Do what you will with the info.

[Smile]

Burma is one of only a few counries that kept Buddha's teachings as they are. I would say to the extent Laos and Indonesia kept some of it as well.

[Treena]

Thanks, Wayfarer.

[thelerner]

Good. Religious. Peaceful. Subjugated.

 

 

 

 

How often do deeply religious peaceable countries/areas lose everything to less peaceful neighbors? I'm particularly thinking of Tibet and Burma.

 

Were the Buddha's (2 generations later) family slaughtered?(which Buddha?don't know). Is the existence of pacifistic people (quakers, Amish, etc.) only assured by being within the boarders of fighters who tolerate them?

 

Sadly, I guess so.

 

Gandhi's success owes as much to the British conscious as his own iron will. Nazi's would of had him for lunch. Same with Martin Luthor King Jr.

 

You need a pretty moral group to use an argument like 'Let he who is without sin, throw the first stone'

 

Michael

[Wayfarer64]

Hey TL et al-

 

I'm not so sure we can bunch these players so readily. The Chinese went into Tibet, extending their military power... Ne Win took over Burma from the indiginous military and then his power structure enabled the current Junta to keep power. Also many who profess to be pacifists become militerists when confronted with the evils of despots and villany.

 

Once when sharing a shower with a Khmer woman who I loved dearly, I was killing mosquitos as they swarmed around us. Everytime I killed one, she said a prayer. After many prayers, she became annoyed with me for killing so many mosquitoes. I explained that they caused disease and that it was the same as if the communists were attacking us where we were in Thailand...[which they were threatening to do at that time (1982)]... I opined that most of the young men who were practicing as Buddhist monks would then take off their robes and fight the communists. She agreed- of course every Thai man would fight to keep the commies out. I said it was the same with the mosquitoes. She said no it was not because Buddha liked mosquitoes but didn't like communists!!!

 

I was not about to argue that the universal quality of Buddhist tolerance was possible while being extended to commies too. I would have soon seen her inner tigress! (her father had been a doctor & killed by the Khmer Rouge not so long before)...Nor was I about to defend my own slaughter of innocent life. I in fact just went into stealth mode with my self-defence and let her believe I had learned to tolerate the dangerous little bastards! So my cowardess in not risking a real arguement, made me a sneak while I kept killing in self defence!

 

So all of these reactions are possible in each of us...often enough our inner beliefs can be shunted aside when we find ourselves too angry for reasoning and compassion...As well as the case when those with more inner strength and inate compassion may quell their anger and not rise to the bait-as it were...Or a middle way of accepting that the need for self defence creates hateful conditions sometimes...

 

This is another reason for my holding to Taoism beyond my cherishing the Buddhist teachings and Christian teachings of pacifism, even through villany. I accept the will to fight as a terrible component of human life.

Still. I have seen that it is often the only thing that can stop the march of evil tides arrising...

 

I hold those who are unwilling to fight as beings who I am willing to protect if nessecary, be they Amish or Buddhist or even those who are just too freaking scared to confront the force of miscreant powermongers...

I'll take the "bad Kharma" of violence over the acceptance of real evils gaining real power over any of us...

[Peregrino]

I find it's best to be phlegmatic--slow to respond to provocation like a good Quaker or Buddhist--but *decisive* when it comes to the point of no return and action (even if it's violent action) is needed. Not sure how that translates into geo-politics these days, but it does make it easier to deal with mosquitos!

[Wayfarer64]

World News

Thousands flee junta attacks in Myanmar

 

 

Here's a follow-up to the original story-why isn't it in more newspapers? The forced labour in some cases is to build a pipeline for UNICAL.

 

 

Friday December 1, 2006

 

 

NEW YORK - Some 3000 Burmese are trekking through Myanmar's Karen state to flee Army attacks and search for food, Human Rights Watch said.

 

It had received reports that more than 200 civilians had arrived at camps close to the Thai border after walking for 17 days while 3000 others were moving towards border settlements in Myanmar. "The military attacks villages, uses civilians for forced labour and steals their food and money, forcing people to flee," Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch, said.

 

The Karen National Liberation Army has conducted intermittent guerrilla warfare for some 58 years.

 

In the past year, a campaign conducted by the ruling military junta has displaced 27,000 villagers, with at least 45 civilians killed by government forces in Karen alone, HRW said. Across the country this year, more than 82,000 people have been forced to flee warfare and 232 villages have been destroyed.

 

- REUTERS

[Maddie]

Why are Buddhists so upset with Muslims in Burma?

[voidisyinyang]

Dear Tao Bums,

 

This is a topic very important to me. I have spent several weeks in Burma and was always amazed at the depth of the Burmese people's good nature and compassionate undestanding of Buddhist practices.

 

These are remarkably kind and gentle people on the whole and deserve the eyes of the world to be upon them and the heinnous nature of their current illegal Government that usurped power from a democratically elected leader. In America there are companies such as UNICAL that are profiting from the Myanmar oppressions. Please let our leaders know that these corporations should be held acountable for their actions. And indeed that our governments should not be supporting this reign of terror!

 

Please take a moment to read this article-

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15757111/

 

Do what you will with the info.

 

 

So what did you do in Burma? Did you meditate?

 

Do you know that some of the meditation centers were built by slave labor by the military regime?

 

Yes I protested at UNOCAL directly at their headquarters in L.A. - back in 1996.

 

We got L.A. to pass their own divestment law.

 

There was a lawsuit against UNOCAL but I think the judge threw it out.

 

I worked to get the U of MN to divest from Total Oil which is a Unocal partner. So that was a $1.5 million divestment.

 

I had to cry in public just to get the well-paid administrators at the University to even acknowledge and begin to take action on the issue.

Edited May 15, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[Maddie]

So what did you do in Burma? Did you meditate?

 

Do you know that some of the meditation centers were built by slave labor by the military regime?

 

Yes I protested at UNOCAL directly at their headquarters in L.A. - back in 1996.

 

We got L.A. to pass their own divestment law.

 

There was a lawsuit against UNOCAL but I think the judge threw it out.

 

I worked to get the U of MN to divest from Total Oil which is a Unocal partner. So that was a $1.5 million divestment.

 

I had to cry in public just to get the well-paid administrators at the University to even acknowledge and begin to take action on the issue.

So did the government just round people up and make them work?

[voidisyinyang]

So did the government just round people up and make them work?

 

yeah the military raids the villagers and they work chain gang.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g97dxvhDrjI

 

this doc gives the details. Watch out for the ad at the beginning - LOUD. haha.

[Maddie]

yeah the military raids the villagers and they work chain gang.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g97dxvhDrjI

 

this doc gives the details. Watch out for the ad at the beginning - LOUD. haha.

wow why isn't more being done about this?!?!

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

wow, why are people who care not involved? cuz we cant afford to be, thats why!


What, you want me to go covert and assassinate everyone who is responsible for the wrongs in the world? jsut hook me up with the equipment and it's done.
you're not going to, are you?
If we're not going to DO something about the world, we might as well close down all topics about the subjects!


Discussion time was over 40 years ago.
W A K E _ U P ! ! !

[voidisyinyang]

wow why isn't more being done about this?!?!

 

Yeah I was co-founder of the Minnesota Free Burma Coalition.

 

The Burmese refuge who was the other co-founder -- well we let in other people in the group and some of them took on "leadership" positions but not the way I would have done it. haha.

 

That's democracy though -- let other people take charge if they want.

 

When I teared up to get some action I told the University administrators that I had tons of other issues to volunteer work on but this one is so blatantly the worst yet people want to just ignore it. I started to tear up and they got all embarrassed. haha.

 

Anyway hey if that's what it takes - so be it. I mean my friend did some great guerrilla theatre for a front page protest news article while I did a megaphone.

 

It took awhile but it's documented on public record. Of course they didn't divest Minnesota companies doing business in Burma since that would be politically too blatant. haha.

 

I would have done more but I basically - quite literally - devoted my graduate degree to doing activism. Not many students can take that privlege but my dad was paying for the degree so I could do that.

 

But I actually dropped out of school since when I did the sweatshop activism the corruption of the people controlling the professors, etc. was so blatant -- I was like - wow these people are in charge? And this is a university? They just resorted to stupid tricks to try to delay the truth but had sold out to Nike.

 

Anyway I was doing qigong by then and so I said I was going on unlimited hunger strike and then the University President personally emailed me, patronizingly stating that I should not go on unlimited hunger strike as I had done enough already. haha.

 

So then the school joined the Workers Rights Consortium - I think Burma apparel workers make something like eight cents an hour - it's by far the best -- I mean LOWEST wages for sweatshop workers worldwide....

 

Anyway so the Free Burma Coalition lost steam -- in legal struggles - I mean not directly - but the lawsuit against Unocal I think did not really go anywhere.

 

there was a lawsuit against Total Oil in Europe -

 

http://www.hrcr.org/hottopics/burmese.html

 

yeah not sure ...

 

http://burma.total.com/myanmar-en/faq/have-legal-proceedings-been-instituted-against-total-what-was-the-outcome-200235.html

 

So Total Oil says they're innocent then sets up some patronizing "help" fund for those who come forward claiming they have suffered.

 

Yeah like - hey if you can go through the legal hell that others went through then we might throw you some chump change.

 

Meanwhile the slave raids go on and Total oil claims to be the nice guy.

 

 

 

Oh I have not seen this yet!!

Edited May 16, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

lawsuits? that's the solution? a slap on the wrist?


God you're terrible at this too, arent you?

[Maddie]

lawsuits? that's the solution? a slap on the wrist?

 

 

God you're terrible at this too, arent you?

alright enlighten us with the solution then.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

You've got to be fucking kidding me.

[Maddie]

You've got to be fucking kidding me.

No I was being quite serious.

[voidisyinyang]

aRE YOU ALL watching the doc?

 

Mind control means no force is necessary to control people.

 

Welcome to the Matrix.

[eye_of_the_storm]

It's a fkd up world... that is one reason I never really liked Buddhism, it makes people totally defenseless.

Is it any wonder the major world religions all preach non violence, surrender etc? hmm I wonder who came up with that script.

These religions appearing around 2000 years ago?

Edited May 16, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[voidisyinyang]

Judge Chaney set a trial date for June of 2005 for a jury trial on the plaintiffs' claims of murder, rape, and forced labor.

In March of 2005, Unocal agreed to compensate the plaintiffs in a historic settlement that ended the lawsuit. Shortly thereafter, Unocal was acquired by Chevron.

 

http://www.earthrights.org/legal/doe-v-unocal-case-history

 

Wow this doc is amazing.

 

 

 

• News
• World news

Energy giant agrees settlement with Burmese villagers

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/dec/15/burma.duncancampbell

 

So now they have to go after CHEVRON.

 

https://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/10/04/4303

 

http://www.earthrights.org/blog

 

O.k. the updates there.

Edited May 16, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

No I was being quite serious.

 

If you cannot see that the only remaining solution, short of sticking our heads between our legs and kissing our asses goodbye, is to take up arms and eradicate the disease, then you're only fucking kidding yourself.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

aRE YOU ALL watching the doc?

 

Mind control means no force is necessary to control people.

 

Welcome to the Matrix.

 

 

And you're not up in arms, you're not inciting riots. fuck you, if i knew how to start a riot, i would be doing that all fucking day tomorrow.

 

 

 

The time to act is long since past, and we're jsut decomposing like fucking wussies and have already given up. god damn.

[Maddie]

 

 

And you're not up in arms, you're not inciting riots. fuck you, if i knew how to start a riot, i would be doing that all fucking day tomorrow.

 

 

 

The time to act is long since past, and we're jsut decomposing like fucking wussies and have already given up. god damn.

They already tried riots, it just got a lot of people killed. Gandhi and Mandela promoted change in their countries with out violence and more bloodshed. Violence begets more violence.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

right, and poisoning our food isnt an act of violence? wake up, they've already initiated first strike.