Burnings in Burma

[eye_of_the_storm]

Correct NAJA

This is war... we just don't know it.

Most of the planet is under bio + chemical weapon attack (termed SOFT KILL)

+ Other more direct means...

The War on TERRA!

Cancer on the rise? how many 100s of million spent "looking for a cure" ... it's a scam.

Many cures already!

food, water, air, "medicine" + destruction of natural environment.

Our home is being turned into a waste land!

 

Nobody wants to hear it.

Edited May 16, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Maddie]

Fight, kill, attack! Ok consider this the people doing these bad things would not be doing them if they had more loving kindness, more compassion, more selflessness. So if you decide the answer is to kill these people, fight these people, attack these people then what do you replace them with? Someone else who lacks compassion, and loving kindness. That is why revolutions tend to replace one tyrant with another.

 

What is it that these people want? what do they care about? Money. They don't care if their own soldiers die cause they lack compassion, so fighting them won't make them care. But as Nelson Mandela understood if you focus on what they care about then you get their attention. They want money, that is why sanctions helped to end apartheid in South Africa. On that video the generals in charge of Burma want to develop tourism to get more money. Since its money they are after, then it would stand to reason that affecting their cash flow would be a better way to get their attention. Since they don't value human life, they don't care about people getting killed in a fight.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Fight, kill, attack! Ok consider this the people doing these bad things would not be doing them if they had more loving kindness, more compassion, more selflessness. So if you decide the answer is to kill these people, fight these people, attack these people then what do you replace them with? Someone else who lacks compassion, and loving kindness. That is why revolutions tend to replace one tyrant with another.

 

What is it that these people want? what do they care about? Money. They don't care if their own soldiers die cause they lack compassion, so fighting them won't make them care. But as Nelson Mandela understood if you focus on what they care about then you get their attention. They want money, that is why sanctions helped to end apartheid in South Africa. On that video the generals in charge of Burma want to develop tourism to get more money. Since its money they are after, then it would stand to reason that affecting their cash flow would be a better way to get their attention. Since they don't value human life, they don't care about people getting killed in a fight.

 

 

 

By not killing those who kill my peers, i treat them with love and compassion. "do unto others" rings true in my ears. poison monsanto.

 

Why do we have to replace the evils in the world? THAT is a dick move. good god.

 

 

The point is not to continue to perpetuate teh faulty paradigm, but to erradicate it and build one that WORKS FOR EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL PERSON OMNIVERSALLY.

 

 

 

"Shape up or ship out" also comes to mind.

 

 

 

Since they dont value human life, their own lives lack intrinsic value and therefore can be eradicated without any consequence.

 

Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. they WANT us to disregard their existence.

[Maddie]

 

 

Since they dont value human life, their own lives lack intrinsic value and therefore can be eradicated without any consequence.

 

Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. they WANT us to disregard their existence.

 

Who then makes the distinction as to when its ok to eradicate someone with out consequence? At what point is it ok, and at what point is it not ok, and how does one distinguish this point?

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

they, themselves do, by intrinsic expression. IF we can identify who-so-ever is responsible for the allowing of the poisoning of the population, they can be force fed their own poison on the spot.

At what point was it ever okay for them to dominate our resources and then subsequently poison us with them?


The victims are the sole authorities over their perpetrators. The victim is the only individual who CAN make a distinction as to weather or not it is okay to eradicate their oppressor.


If the victim is unwilling to act, they invalidate themselves and permit the continued negligent behavior which affects them.



Self defense. Are we really not ALLOWED to defend ourselves? are we really so invalid as individuals that corporations are correct in their behavior and so far above retribution that we are thereby invalidated forevermore?

If you are a mouse, and you are aware of a cat, are you going to stand still and allow the cat to eat you, or are you going to find safety?


I DONT EVEN KNOW WHERE ON EARTH IS SAFE ANYMORE! I HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO FIGHT, AND TO KILL, OR TO DIE.

If i dont at least fight, then i will die for NOTHING.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Northern Avid Judo Ant

[Maddie]

they, themselves do, by intrinsic expression. IF we can identify who-so-ever is responsible for the allowing of the poisoning of the population, they can be force fed their own poison on the spot.

 

At what point was it ever okay for them to dominate our resources and then subsequently poison us with them?

 

 

The victims are the sole authorities over their perpetrators. The victim is the only individual who CAN make a distinction as to weather or not it is okay to eradicate their oppressor.

 

 

If the victim is unwilling to act, they invalidate themselves and permit the continued negligent behavior which affects them.

 

 

 

Self defense. Are we really not ALLOWED to defend ourselves? are we really so invalid as individuals that corporations are correct in their behavior and so far above retribution that we are thereby invalidated forevermore?

 

If you are a mouse, and you are aware of a cat, are you going to stand still and allow the cat to eat you, or are you going to find safety?

 

 

I DONT EVEN KNOW WHERE ON EARTH IS SAFE ANYMORE! I HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO FIGHT, AND TO KILL, OR TO DIE.

 

If i dont at least fight, then i will die for NOTHING.

wow. Go with in, let it go, relax

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

cycles. breath.


The time for relaxing must be appropriated. Now is not the appropriate time for the breath to autonomously respire, but for the cells to permanently expel all the poisons we've been inhaling, unawares, by forceful exhales and coughing.

We cannot inhale or relax again until the poisons are eradicated.

[Maddie]

So I'm wondering if there are any good relief or charitable organizations that help people and/or monasteries in Burma?

[voidisyinyang]

So I'm wondering if there are any good relief or charitable organizations that help people and/or monasteries in Burma?

 

Umm actually my Burmese friend kind of dropped out of the Free Burma Coalition and then he hooked up with a monk who spearheaded the main charity relief after the hurricane that was a total disaster for Burma. But this monk collaborates with the military so most of the monks don't support him. But my friend just appreciates that the monk actually is able to leverage Western monies or outside funds to help the people of Burma -- even if that means collaborating with the military regime.

 

So it's a bit of a condundrum because a lot of the normal charities can not access Burma since the military regime does not allow it.

 

Anyway this monk does not really focus on meditation mastery but instead on charity and teaching and having monks get Ph.Ds., etc. I can't remember his name - he is high profile. I could look it up via my friend's monastery which is part of the monk's network.

 

But yeah that Earth Rights International - after they won the lawsuit - I looked up their IRS 990 form on their website. So in 2005 they have a $50,000 budget and in 2006 their budget is over $2 million. haha.

 

So that is really awesome because they are putting that money to good use. I'm curious what happened to the "does" that where the victimized villages - did they move out of the area where they are from because the military harrass them still? Still sad if they had to leave but at least they got money to find better lifes in terms of basic needs, etc. Maybe they are now more homesick, etc. but a lot of people in Burma had to flee to Thailand to seek refuge status at the U.N.

 

My friend had to flee in 1988 which was the first big massacre against the nonviolent democracy movement - so he fled through the jungle and then into Thailand. Then he brought his family later.

[Maddie]

Umm actually my Burmese friend kind of dropped out of the Free Burma Coalition and then he hooked up with a monk who spearheaded the main charity relief after the hurricane that was a total disaster for Burma. But this monk collaborates with the military so most of the monks don't support him. But my friend just appreciates that the monk actually is able to leverage Western monies or outside funds to help the people of Burma -- even if that means collaborating with the military regime.

 

So it's a bit of a condundrum because a lot of the normal charities can not access Burma since the military regime does not allow it.

 

Anyway this monk does not really focus on meditation mastery but instead on charity and teaching and having monks get Ph.Ds., etc. I can't remember his name - he is high profile. I could look it up via my friend's monastery which is part of the monk's network.

 

But yeah that Earth Rights International - after they won the lawsuit - I looked up their IRS 990 form on their website. So in 2005 they have a $50,000 budget and in 2006 their budget is over $2 million. haha.

 

So that is really awesome because they are putting that money to good use. I'm curious what happened to the "does" that where the victimized villages - did they move out of the area where they are from because the military harrass them still? Still sad if they had to leave but at least they got money to find better lifes in terms of basic needs, etc. Maybe they are now more homesick, etc. but a lot of people in Burma had to flee to Thailand to seek refuge status at the U.N.

 

My friend had to flee in 1988 which was the first big massacre against the nonviolent democracy movement - so he fled through the jungle and then into Thailand. Then he brought his family later.

 

So then I'd assume a westerner wanting to go to Burma to study in a monastery like they do in Thailand would be out of the question then. What effect has the regime had on Buddhism there?

[voidisyinyang]

So then I'd assume a westerner wanting to go to Burma to study in a monastery like they do in Thailand would be out of the question then. What effect has the regime had on Buddhism there?

 

Actually there is a monastery in Burma that accepts and even is geared towards Westerners - and it is a forest monastery -- but you also have to deal with getting your visa renewed -- etc.

 

Anyway the thing about "forest" monasteries is that in Thailand the forest monks receive the regime support - because forest monks practice "power" meditation versus Vipassana which is mind yoga and therefore a slower practice in terms of results or fruits. So I am assuming is it the same in Burma - how else would the regime allow the Westerners there unless the monks of the monastery collaborate with the regime? At least they have to on some level.

 

 

Presently, there are in total over 280 kutis and other single lodgings, in addition to multiple lodgings and dormitories. Kuñis are continually being built to keep pace with the increasing number of residents.

There is electricity supply in every kuñi throughout the Monastery (Voltage is 220V AC). The quality and constancy of the water supply has also improved.

 

 

The monks who participated in the recent democracy demonstration got raided and attacked and imprisoned, tortured, killed, etc. There's an excellent doc on that called VJ Burma - video journalist Burma. It's on netflix I think.... hold on.

 

 

hmm the couple youtube uploads didn't seem to have the beginning. Maybe copyright issue - but anyway that's a great doc -- very intense as the journalists are getting shot at and arrested and raided, etc. along with the monks.

 

So yeah most of the monks in Burma are part of the democracy movement but so then probably not doing "power" meditation in the forest.

 

http://www.paaukforestmonastery.org/aboutUs.htm

 

That's the forest monastery

 

 

Please check with the Myanmar Embassy in your home country to see if they will issue a three-month meditation visa to you. If this is not possible, you may wish to check with another Myanmar Embassy – for example, the Embassy in Singapore – to see what type of visa they will issue to you. To apply for a meditation visa, you will need a Pa-Auk Sponsorship Letter, which can be obtained through a Pa-Auk Contact Person or by writing to the Monastery

 

Yeah so it's a three month meditation visa if you can get it.

 

This is probably what I was about to get - the monks had written up a sponsorship letter for me to mail to the monastery in Burma -- or maybe just to get me the visa.....

 

Anyway but I would have been teaching English since that is the type of monastery that the charity monk runs - I had told the monks I wanted to focus on meditation. haha.

 

So I know it sounds really selfish to not do charity work but instead want to meditate - but anyway.....

 

The monk who runs the forest monastery - he is also very high profile.

 

The place looks stunningly beautiful. There are females and males but I'm not sure how much interaction - like do they share the same meditation room when all the monks gather at the temple or do they split up time? Personally I would prefer split up time. haha. Because I know that even any visual interaction causes the light energy to exchange between males and females.

 

 

A large meditation hall for women, Mettavihari, has recently been completed.

 

 

So anyway I am wondering how Westernized this monastery is - super nice meditation huts are built - and all the food that has to be donated to feed the Westerners. It kind of creeps me out in a country with so much suffering and poverty run by a military regime and then these well-off Westerners fly in to get the red carpet meditation treatment.

 

I mean I was told that as a monk I would be treated really well since it's the wealthy of Burma who donate so much to the monasteries, etc. I suppose that is true.... but then the monks who protest for the rights of the poor -- those monks don't get much chance to meditate - at least not in very good conditions.

 

 

Following that, the yogi will be taught to prepare the way for Vipassanà meditation, which is to use the ‘light of wisdom’ to discern ultimate materiality and mentality. The yogi will also be taught to discern the workings of Dependent Origination (paññiccasamuppàda). This means he will discern a number of past and future lives, and to discern the causes for certain rebirths.

Edited May 17, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[Maddie]

Actually there is a monastery in Burma that accepts and even is geared towards Westerners - and it is a forest monastery -- but you also have to deal with getting your visa renewed -- etc.

 

Anyway the thing about "forest" monasteries is that in Thailand the forest monks receive the regime support - because forest monks practice "power" meditation versus Vipassana which is mind yoga and therefore a slower practice in terms of results or fruits. So I am assuming is it the same in Burma - how else would the regime allow the Westerners there unless the monks of the monastery collaborate with the regime? At least they have to on some level.

 

The monks who participated in the recent democracy demonstration got raided and attacked and imprisoned, tortured, killed, etc. There's an excellent doc on that called VJ Burma - video journalist Burma. It's on netflix I think.... hold on.

 

 

hmm the couple youtube uploads didn't seem to have the beginning. Maybe copyright issue - but anyway that's a great doc -- very intense as the journalists are getting shot at and arrested and raided, etc. along with the monks.

 

So yeah most of the monks in Burma are part of the democracy movement but so then probably not doing "power" meditation in the forest.

 

http://www.paaukforestmonastery.org/aboutUs.htm

 

That's the forest monastery

 

 

 

Yeah so it's a three month meditation visa if you can get it.

 

This is probably what I was about to get - the monks had written up a sponsorship letter for me to mail to the monastery in Burma -- or maybe just to get me the visa.....

 

Anyway but I would have been teaching English since that is the type of monastery that the charity monk runs - I had told the monks I wanted to focus on meditation. haha.

 

So I know it sounds really selfish to not do charity work but instead want to meditate - but anyway.....

 

The monk who runs the forest monastery - he is also very high profile.

 

The place looks stunningly beautiful. There are females and males but I'm not sure how much interaction - like do they share the same meditation room when all the monks gather at the temple or do they split up time? Personally I would prefer split up time. haha. Because I know that even any visual interaction causes the light energy to exchange between males and females.

 

So anyway I am wondering how Westernized this monastery is - super nice meditation huts are built - and all the food that has to be donated to feed the Westerners. It kind of creeps me out in a country with so much suffering and poverty run by a military regime and then these well-off Westerners fly in to get the red carpet meditation treatment.

 

I mean I was told that as a monk I would be treated really well since it's the wealthy of Burma who donate so much to the monasteries, etc. I suppose that is true.... but then the monks who protest for the rights of the poor -- those monks don't get much chance to meditate - at least not in very good conditions.

Hmmm I wonder if I were to go there after I graduate if I would be able to put my TCM skills to use? I wonder if you can sort of split up what you do there, as in have part of your time go to meditation and part of it going to help people there in some manner. Seems like both would be mutually beneficial as in you cultivate and get good karma.

[voidisyinyang]

Hmmm I wonder if I were to go there after I graduate if I would be able to put my TCM skills to use? I wonder if you can sort of split up what you do there, as in have part of your time go to meditation and part of it going to help people there in some manner. Seems like both would be mutually beneficial as in you cultivate and get good karma.

 

yeah it's a good idea -- it would have to be volunteer I think since any foreign business has to be in partnership with the military regime.

 

If you watch that VJ doc - there was a Japanese journalist who was in the street videoing the nonviolent peaceful demonstration. The military goes up to him and shoots him point blank and -- in the head. Assassination. I mean obviously the Burmese Video journalist got in on film. But after that Japan pulled its funding for the Burmese military regime. Too bad it took such a drastic sacrifice.

 

But yeah there is a big increase in Western tourism - as this thread is a testimony to - that's why I was curious what meditation center or not if Wayfarer went to in Burma since I know some of them are built by slave labor for the unwitting Western tourists wanted to practice "Buddhist" meditation. Pretty messed up.

Edited May 17, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[Simple_Jack]

So yeah most of the monks in Burma are part of the democracy movement but so then probably not doing "power" meditation in the forest.

 

http://www.paaukforestmonastery.org/aboutUs.htm

 

That's the forest monastery

 

Yeah, that monastery emphasizes the development of "Visuddhimagga jhanas" over the "Sutta jhana" [http://www.leighb.com/Jhana_in_Theravada_Quli.pdf]. As you can see from their website: they don't even begin to teach vipassana until after a certain amount of progress.

[Maddie]

Yeah, that monastery emphasizes the development of "Visuddhimagga jhanas" over the "Sutta jhana" [http://www.leighb.com/Jhana_in_Theravada_Quli.pdf]. As you can see from their website: they don't even begin to teach vipassana until after a certain amount of progress.

Is there an advantage or disadvantage to this approach?

[Simple_Jack]

Is there an advantage or disadvantage to this approach?

 

It really depends on the individual and what works best for them or what approach they most prefer.

 

IMO, the disadvantage to that approach, would be the amount of time it takes to actually start applying vipassana. The advantage to it, theoretically, would be that the individual has a clearer, purer state of mind from which to apply vipassana to gain the insight knowledges.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Simple_Jack

[Simple_Jack]

Is there an advantage or disadvantage to this approach?

 

Something of relevance from dharmaoverground:

 

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/3539206:

 

"While at Chanmyay Yeiktha, I talked to a Chinese monk about my interest to go to Pa Auk. He told me he met people with experience at Pa Auk and they told him they didn't progress very fast. He said that Pa Auk ask of people to master the 4th Jhana before they start Vipassana. I also remember stumbling on a youtube video of a Western monk criticizing Pa Auk, arguing that the approach was based on sub-sub-commentaries, or something to that effect. I'm just repeating what I heard."

 

 

Mastery of jhana would be the ability to enter, abide, exit the jhana at will. In this case that would be a "Visuddhimagga jhana".

[Maddie]

Something of relevance from dharmaoverground:

 

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/3539206:

 

"While at Chanmyay Yeiktha, I talked to a Chinese monk about my interest to go to Pa Auk. He told me he met people with experience at Pa Auk and they told him they didn't progress very fast. He said that Pa Auk ask of people to master the 4th Jhana before they start Vipassana. I also remember stumbling on a youtube video of a Western monk criticizing Pa Auk, arguing that the approach was based on sub-sub-commentaries, or something to that effect. I'm just repeating what I heard."

 

 

Mastery of jhana would be the ability to enter, abide, exit the jhana at will. In this case that would be a "Visuddhimagga jhana".

You mentioned the monk you spoke to was Chinese. That is another place I have pondered going to for meditation purposes, as I am in TCM school and know a lot of Chinese people. What do you know of monasteries there?

[Simple_Jack]

You mentioned the monk you spoke to was Chinese. That is another place I have pondered going to for meditation purposes, as I am in TCM school and know a lot of Chinese people. What do you know of monasteries there?

 

That quoted text wasn't from me. You should pose your question on either Dharmawheel.net or zenforuminternational.org.

[voidisyinyang]

Yeah, that monastery emphasizes the development of "Visuddhimagga jhanas" over the "Sutta jhana" [http://www.leighb.com/Jhana_in_Theravada_Quli.pdf]. As you can see from their website: they don't even begin to teach vipassana until after a certain amount of progress.

 

yep -- that's actually the traditional definition of Vipassana from what I read somewhere - Oh actually my Burmese friend told me this - that real Vipassana is only the advanced level - or what would be in Nirvikalpa Samadhi meditation.

 

So yeah first concentration.

 

Actually with the whole Vipassana mind yoga deal that is big in the West -- people seem to forget about the importance of mind concentration.

 

I had that discussion with my friend at the Level 3 Spring Forest Qigong class - after meditation. I said - so do you stop your thoughts?

 

He said - I go so deep that I don't even notice my thoughts - they are just on the surface, floating by.

 

I said - well to develop concentration the first thing to do is stop the thoughts.

 

Personally I like the concentration approach because it's too easy for the mind to fool itself thinking it has "gone deep."

 

The technique to stop the thoughts is the means to go deep in the meditation.

 

But still there are various techniques obviously.....

[Simple_Jack]

yep -- that's actually the traditional definition of Vipassana from what I read somewhere - Oh actually my Burmese friend told me this - that real Vipassana is only the advanced level - or what would be in Nirvikalpa Samadhi meditation.

 

In the Pali Nikayas, samatha-vipassana isn't described as two separate meditations. Realistically, you alternate between the two in each individual session, until they are indivisible. Vipassana can be used to enter each individual jhana.

 

 

I had that discussion with my friend at the Level 3 Spring Forest Qigong class - after meditation. I said - so do you stop your thoughts?

 

He said - I go so deep that I don't even notice my thoughts - they are just on the surface, floating by.

 

I said - well to develop concentration the first thing to do is stop the thoughts.

 

Personally I like the concentration approach because it's too easy for the mind to fool itself thinking it has "gone deep."

 

The technique to stop the thoughts is the means to go deep in the meditation.

 

But still there are various techniques obviously.....

 

It's not always as black and white as that, at least when it comes to the experience of jhana's.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Simple_Jack

[Maddie]

yep -- that's actually the traditional definition of Vipassana from what I read somewhere - Oh actually my Burmese friend told me this - that real Vipassana is only the advanced level - or what would be in Nirvikalpa Samadhi meditation.

 

So yeah first concentration.

 

Actually with the whole Vipassana mind yoga deal that is big in the West -- people seem to forget about the importance of mind concentration.

 

I had that discussion with my friend at the Level 3 Spring Forest Qigong class - after meditation. I said - so do you stop your thoughts?

 

He said - I go so deep that I don't even notice my thoughts - they are just on the surface, floating by.

 

I said - well to develop concentration the first thing to do is stop the thoughts.

 

Personally I like the concentration approach because it's too easy for the mind to fool itself thinking it has "gone deep."

 

The technique to stop the thoughts is the means to go deep in the meditation.

 

But still there are various techniques obviously.....

 

Yea its for this reason that I am now doing totally Samantha now because when I was trying to do Vipassana as well I had this sneaking feeling that what I thought was Vipassana was probably not, and that rather it was more of my mind wondering.

 

Another clue is that I'm finding pure Samantha very challenging and that in doing it I am becoming aware of how much and strongly my mind protests it haha. It seems to not like having its "entertainment aka various wandering thoughts" taken away from it. Yet the more I do it the more I'm finding it to be calming.

 

So I figure I'll do Samantha until I get to a jhana or samadi or something like that and then I'll have the focus needed to really do Vipassana, or at least that is the hope.

[voidisyinyang]

Yea its for this reason that I am now doing totally Samantha now because when I was trying to do Vipassana as well I had this sneaking feeling that what I thought was Vipassana was probably not, and that rather it was more of my mind wondering.

 

Another clue is that I'm finding pure Samantha very challenging and that in doing it I am becoming aware of how much and strongly my mind protests it haha. It seems to not like having its "entertainment aka various wandering thoughts" taken away from it. Yet the more I do it the more I'm finding it to be calming.

 

So I figure I'll do Samantha until I get to a jhana or samadi or something like that and then I'll have the focus needed to really do Vipassana, or at least that is the hope.

 

right the Pa Auk teachings say that first the "light of wisdom" should be developed. Ummm. I don't know if that means seeing light externally which is indication of the third eye opened up or just seeing light internally.

 

But if it's Nirvikalpa Samadhi as Vipassana as they indicate then it means seeing light externally.

 

the mind definitely gets tired from concentration meditation but as my dad used to say "I like to exercise my mind." haha.

 

I changed that to "I like to exorcise my mind."

[Maddie]

right the Pa Auk teachings say that first the "light of wisdom" should be developed. Ummm. I don't know if that means seeing light externally which is indication of the third eye opened up or just seeing light internally.

 

But if it's Nirvikalpa Samadhi as Vipassana as they indicate then it means seeing light externally.

 

the mind definitely gets tired from concentration meditation but as my dad used to say "I like to exercise my mind." haha.

 

I changed that to "I like to exorcise my mind."

 

Ajahn Brahm was saying something about seeing your Nimita or some kind of internal light once you reach a certain stage of Samantha.

[voidisyinyang]

Ajahn Brahm was saying something about seeing your Nimita or some kind of internal light once you reach a certain stage of Samantha.

 

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/2055634

 

O.K. -- yeah -- it's just how much energy is stored up and purified.

 

I don't get it as much as I used to - but also external light - I lose my energy as chi or yin chi energy first before it gets built up enough. haha.

 

I mean sometimes I see light internally --

 

Edited May 18, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus