Burnings in Burma

[Maddie]

Nice, very informative. Wow I love listening to people of high cultivation talk. I was so relaxed just listening to her talk. She probably could have been talking about how to clean your toilet and I would have still found it soothing haha.

[Tibetan_Ice]

 

O.K. -- yeah -- it's just how much energy is stored up and purified.

 

I don't get it as much as I used to - but also external light - I lose my energy as chi or yin chi energy first before it gets built up enough. haha.

 

I mean sometimes I see light internally --

 

Hi Drew

Nimitta isn't about how much energy is stored up or purified. It's not a cultivation thing where you reach a certain threshold and then the nimitta appears. It has nothing to do with storing prana/chi/energy.

 

It's all about bringing the mind to stillness. The nimitta is actually a representation of the mind, one which you can 'see' when you drop the veils, the hinderences. The nimitta is a reflection of your own mind. Like looking into a mirror at yourself. The mind can't make sense of it so most of the time it appears as a very bright light, or a blotch of color, or architectural shape. If the nimitta moves around allot, that means your mind is not stable. If the nimitta appears and then disappears quickly, perhaps you got too excited and that stirred up the mind. In order to see and maintain a glorious nimitta, your mind has to be dead calm with no disturbances.

 

In a sense, too much energy cultivation (winds in Buddhism) is not what you strive for, because the stronger the winds, the harder it is to settle them. As a matter of fact, I have read in several Buddhist meditation manuals that you may do some controlled breathing exercises at the start of the meditations, but you do not control the breath in any way during anapanasati, because it only stirs up the winds (mind-thoughts). Some Buddhist practice manuals recommend not doing any forceful breathing practices before meditation for this reason.

 

I think this is counterintuitive for a 'cultivation' mindset, but the formula for anapanasati is 'directing focus, sustaining focus, experiencing the joy and happiness when you do succeed in sustaining focus, realizing the nimitta, building the nimitta (polishing the nimitta through ethical behaviour and techinique) and then entering jhana.

 

Here is my typical sequence for anapanasati practice.

1) Sit in meditative posture

 

2) Follow the breath, sense the sensations at the nostrils (very coarse) until the coarse mind starts to settle down a bit (4-5 minutes).

 

3) Focus on the in-flow and out-flow of the breath, become stable in that.

 

4) Start focusing to include the gap between the breaths. Gradually build to follow one complete breath cycle.

 

5) By focusing on including the gaps, the mind forms a knowing of the movement of the breath, it is

sort of like a dull white light going up and down. Up, and down. Keep focusing on that.

 

6) As you continue focusing on the up and down, after a while, the breathing slows right down. So, I adjust the up-and-down motion which is perceived by the inner-eye, to be very minute in motion.

 

7) In the background, behind where the up-and-down breath motion was occuring, the nimitta appears.

Sometimes it is like looking at the sun. It is so bright. Sometimes, it appears and then disappears right away (mind is too excited). I remain watching the breath motion and try to ignore the nimitta.

 

8) When the nimitta is stable, can be clearly seen, sustained and is not going away, I switch to the nimitta. (At this point it is actually called the counterpart sign).

 

9) Then the nimitta moves around a bit and starts to come closer and closer (or perhaps the "I" moves closer to it?) Then, it engulfs you. !!

 

Anyway, thank you for the link to the Sayalay anapanasati video. It was wonderful to hear someone else talk about the nimittas. One bone of contention that I have, though, is that she said that the nimitta will not appear unless you are focusing on the area by the nostrils. This is not entirely true. The counterpart sign does appear when you focus anywhere around the nose, because, when you are focusing on the mental representation of the breath, the motion appears to be up and down the whole nose (but at that point it is hard to gauge exactly where the nose is because you are focusing mentally internally). Also, if you fix your attention just below the navel (instead of at the nostrils, the learning sign (white light just below the navel) is very easy to see internally. Also, Ajahn Brahm says that you don't specifically locate the breath anywhere in the body. Again, there are variances in techniques. But I did enjoy her videos (and her serenity too).

 

Thanks.

 

TI

[Maddie]

 

Hi Drew

Nimitta isn't about how much energy is stored up or purified. It's not a cultivation thing where you reach a certain threshold and then the nimitta appears. It has nothing to do with storing prana/chi/energy.

 

It's all about bringing the mind to stillness. The nimitta is actually a representation of the mind, one which you can 'see' when you drop the veils, the hinderences. The nimitta is a reflection of your own mind. Like looking into a mirror at yourself. The mind can't make sense of it so most of the time it appears as a very bright light, or a blotch of color, or architectural shape. If the nimitta moves around allot, that means your mind is not stable. If the nimitta appears and then disappears quickly, perhaps you got too excited and that stirred up the mind. In order to see and maintain a glorious nimitta, your mind has to be dead calm with no disturbances.

 

In a sense, too much energy cultivation (winds in Buddhism) is not what you strive for, because the stronger the winds, the harder it is to settle them. As a matter of fact, I have read in several Buddhist meditation manuals that you may do some controlled breathing exercises at the start of the meditations, but you do not control the breath in any way during anapanasati, because it only stirs up the winds (mind-thoughts). Some Buddhist practice manuals recommend not doing any forceful breathing practices before meditation for this reason.

 

I think this is counterintuitive for a 'cultivation' mindset, but the formula for anapanasati is 'directing focus, sustaining focus, experiencing the joy and happiness when you do succeed in sustaining focus, realizing the nimitta, building the nimitta (polishing the nimitta through ethical behaviour and techinique) and then entering jhana.

 

Here is my typical sequence for anapanasati practice.

1) Sit in meditative posture

 

2) Follow the breath, sense the sensations at the nostrils (very coarse) until the coarse mind starts to settle down a bit (4-5 minutes).

 

3) Focus on the in-flow and out-flow of the breath, become stable in that.

 

4) Start focusing to include the gap between the breaths. Gradually build to follow one complete breath cycle.

 

5) By focusing on including the gaps, the mind forms a knowing of the movement of the breath, it is

sort of like a dull white light going up and down. Up, and down. Keep focusing on that.

 

6) As you continue focusing on the up and down, after a while, the breathing slows right down. So, I adjust the up-and-down motion which is perceived by the inner-eye, to be very minute in motion.

 

7) In the background, behind where the up-and-down breath motion was occuring, the nimitta appears.

Sometimes it is like looking at the sun. It is so bright. Sometimes, it appears and then disappears right away (mind is too excited). I remain watching the breath motion and try to ignore the nimitta.

 

8) When the nimitta is stable, can be clearly seen, sustained and is not going away, I switch to the nimitta. (At this point it is actually called the counterpart sign).

 

9) Then the nimitta moves around a bit and starts to come closer and closer (or perhaps the "I" moves closer to it?) Then, it engulfs you. !!

 

Anyway, thank you for the link to the Sayalay anapanasati video. It was wonderful to hear someone else talk about the nimittas. One bone of contention that I have, though, is that she said that the nimitta will not appear unless you are focusing on the area by the nostrils. This is not entirely true. The counterpart sign does appear when you focus anywhere around the nose, because, when you are focusing on the mental representation of the breath, the motion appears to be up and down the whole nose (but at that point it is hard to gauge exactly where the nose is because you are focusing mentally internally). Also, if you fix your attention just below the navel (instead of at the nostrils, the learning sign (white light just below the navel) is very easy to see internally. Also, Ajahn Brahm says that you don't specifically locate the breath anywhere in the body. Again, there are variances in techniques. But I did enjoy her videos (and her serenity too).

 

Thanks.

 

TI

would you mind explaining more about focusing on the gaps between breaths? Do you simply focus awareness that they are occurring? And what is the purpose of this?

[Tibetan_Ice]

would you mind explaining more about focusing on the gaps between breaths? Do you simply focus awareness that they are occurring? And what is the purpose of this?

Hi D

The goal is to focus on the "Whole body of the breath" or one complete cycle of breathing in, pausing (or little of no pause), breathing out, and the pausing (or little of no pause). Then, after one succeeds in paying attention to one complete cycle, you then strive to follow two complete cycles. (two complete breathing cycles)

 

You build like that without distraction. You really have accomplished something when you can follow the complete breathing cycles for 2 minutes without distraction and without controlling the breath.

 

The hard part is the gaps, or the pauses between the in-breath and the out-breath, because it is at those two points where the mind is most prone to stray. Probably because there is no longer any physical sensation at those points on which to focus. Or it may also be that the pauses are where either kundalini starts upwards or divine energy comes downwards and the extra juice makes it a little harder to control where the energy goes..

 

First you focus on the in-breath. It is easy because it is moving and it is all one motion. But then you hit the top of the in-breath and the mind has lost it's object. Then, the exhale starts and again, because there are sensations (you can feel the air moving) it is easy to focus on it. But, at the bottom of the out-breath, the sensations quit. The mind has lost it's object and you forget what you were doing. (or the mind is afraid to be without an object and it jumps on to the first thing it can find). (or, the extra juice gives life to a small subconscious thought that then takes over)

 

What I did for a long time was to pay particular attention to those gaps and I made a real effort to complete continous mindfulness on one complete cycle. The first time I succeeded, it took such an effort that I didn't think I could do it twice in a row.. But I kept at it..

 

A good way to practice just that (getting throught the gaps) is to practice the "one-breath" which is a Kunlun technique of not letting the breath pause, even for a second. You are paying close attention to when the gap should occur and just before the gap occurs, you kick in the next breath (in or out). Aside from the pauses, you don't control the rest of the breathing. This led to a sort of 'rounded mental representation of the breathing cycle'. You imagine you are turning a wheel in your mind (in front of your face or brow) with no pauses as you follow the breathing cycle, only intervening to prevent pauses.. What I learned from that practice was that, not only does the breathing slow down in that practice, but it forced me to pay particular attention to the gaps, helping form a mental represenation of the complete breathing cycle.

 

However, that is just for practising. During anapanasati, you don't control any aspect of the breathing at all.

 

TI

Edited May 19, 2013 by Tibetan_Ice

[Maddie]

 

Hi D

The goal is to focus on the "Whole body of the breath" or one complete cycle of breathing in, pausing (or little of no pause), breathing out, and the pausing (or little of no pause). Then, after one succeeds in paying attention to one complete cycle, you then strive to follow two complete cycles. (two complete breathing cycles)

 

You build like that without distraction. You really have accomplished something when you can follow the complete breathing cycles for 2 minutes without distraction and without controlling the breath.

 

The hard part is the gaps, or the pauses between the in-breath and the out-breath, because it is at those two points where the mind is most prone to stray. Probably because there is no longer any physical sensation at those points on which to focus. Or it may also be that the pauses are where either kundalini starts upwards or divine energy comes downwards and the extra juice makes it a little harder to control where the energy goes..

 

First you focus on the in-breath. It is easy because it is moving and it is all one motion. But then you hit the top of the in-breath and the mind has lost it's object. Then, the exhale starts and again, because there are sensations (you can feel the air moving) it is easy to focus on it. But, at the bottom of the out-breath, the sensations quit. The mind has lost it's object and you forget what you were doing. (or the mind is afraid to be without an object and it jumps on to the first thing it can find). (or, the extra juice gives life to a small subconscious thought that then takes over)

 

What I did for a long time was to pay particular attention to those gaps and I made a real effort to complete continous mindfulness on one complete cycle. The first time I succeeded, it took such an effort that I didn't think I could do it twice in a row.. But I kept at it..

 

A good way to practice just that (getting throught the gaps) is to practice the "one-breath" which is a Kunlun technique of not letting the breath pause, even for a second. You are paying close attention to when the gap should occur and just before the gap occurs, you kick in the next breath (in or out). Aside from the pauses, you don't control the rest of the breathing. This led to a sort of 'rounded mental representation of the breathing cycle'. You imagine you are turning a wheel in your mind (in front of your face or brow) with no pauses as you follow the breathing cycle, only intervening to prevent pauses.. What I learned from that practice was that, not only does the breathing slow down in that practice, but it forced me to pay particular attention to the gaps, helping form a mental represenation of the complete breathing cycle.

 

However, that is just for practising. During anapanasati, you don't control any aspect of the breathing at all.

 

TI

 

After you mentioned that I realized that I have very little pause in between my breaths. I just finished doing Samantha before I got back online. What I find challenging is sometimes (like in the case of this session) I have to constantly keep bringing my mind back to the present, breath, ect... as in like every second. It's not always that way, but it is frequently. Does this get easier with time?

[Simple_Jack]

Ajahn Brahm was saying something about seeing your Nimita or some kind of internal light once you reach a certain stage of Samantha.

 

When it comes to the criteria of jhana and how one enters those states: it is definitely not a good idea to rely solely on teachings from Ajahn Brahm. Most importantly, you should rely on your own experiences as well. It is a good idea to compare and contrast between what different people have to say on the subject (e.g. Ajahn Chah, U Pandita, Ajahn Sumedho, Thanissaro Bhikkhu, Leigh Brasington, etc.)

 

The degree of absorption into the object of meditation that he describes (where the 5 senses/sense impressions shut off), does not follow the traditional descriptions of the Nikayas. Practically speaking, this level of absorption isn't needed since an individual is unable to perform vipassana while in this degree of absorption.

 

Of course, it comes down to the choice of the individual on which method or approach is best for them.

[Maddie]

I've only recently begun to do Samatha meditation for any significant length of time. Is it normal for it to make you feel "weird" at first?

[Maddie]

Ok so a couple Vipassana sessions later I think I got a little insight into the weird feeling. Just Samatha uncovering more layers of the subconscious. One of the biggies is desire, and/or aversion (which is just anti-desire). So I looked into this desire more but what I eventually got to that stumped me was not the desire but the desierer.

 

With observation the desire settled down, and I was just left with the aspect of me (or what I call me) that does the desiring. The vague sense I got was that it was not really me, but this layer of wrong thinking (so yea I thought of the 8 fold path) that was covering up the real "me".

 

This of course led me to then ponder what this thing I call "me" is, so I just looked at that for a while, but didn't have any major breakthroughs in that regard, So I'm still a bit stumped about that one.