dwai Posted July 5, 2012 It seems to me that everybody talks about the external and martial effects about Tai Ji Chuan. Surprisingly, I have not heard anybody ever talks about the breathing aspect in Tai Ji. Does anyone has encountered any breathing experience in the practice....??? When i first started learning, the focus was smooth,continuous breathing with inhaling while expanding and exhaling while contracting. Eg inhale while rising, exhale while sinking. Then my teacher said exhale while doing thing like ward off, press push, inhale while roll back etc. then he said inhale while doing entire single form, exhale while doing entire single form...so wardoff wasnt inhale and exhale but inhale and inhale then exhale and exhale or one continuous inhale or one coninuous exhale. Then he said forget about breathing....there is no rule for breathing during taichi...you should be able to wardoff diring inhale or exhale. The power issuance cannot depend on breath...otherwise combat cannot be possible. Hth Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mYTHmAKER Posted July 5, 2012 When i first started learning, the focus was smooth,continuous breathing with inhaling while expanding and exhaling while contracting. Eg inhale while rising, exhale while sinking. Then my teacher said exhale while doing thing like ward off, press push, inhale while roll back etc. then he said inhale while doing entire single form, exhale while doing entire single form...so wardoff wasnt inhale and exhale but inhale and inhale then exhale and exhale or one continuous inhale or one coninuous exhale. Then he said forget about breathing....there is no rule for breathing during taichi...you should be able to wardoff diring inhale or exhale. The power issuance cannot depend on breath...otherwise combat cannot be possible. Hth All my teachers have always said to relax and breath naturally - the breath will take care of itself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seekerofallthatislight Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) If you would like to be a wise and powerful Martial Artist focus less on how* you breath but on when you breathe. Focus on timing. Use your heart as a timer. Use your mind as a measure. Measure opponents time. Measure your own time. Measure your breath. There should be no static breathing as there should be no static movement. Every attack is different. Every motion of defense is different. However leave your breathing uncompromised by an opponents actions. Let it remain superior. Edited July 5, 2012 by Seekerofallthatislight Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) 1. When i first started learning, the focus was smooth,continuous breathing with inhaling while expanding and exhaling while contracting. Eg inhale while rising, exhale while sinking. 2. Then my teacher said exhale while doing thing like ward off, press push, inhale while roll back etc. then he said inhale while doing entire single form, exhale while doing entire single form...so wardoff wasnt inhale and exhale but inhale and inhale then exhale and exhale or one continuous inhale or one coninuous exhale. 3. Then he said forget about breathing....there is no rule for breathing during taichi...you should be able to wardoff during inhale or exhale. The power issuance cannot depend on breath...otherwise combat cannot be possible. Hth Very good... This is the best response so far. Most Tai Ji teacher don't talk about breathing in Tai Ji for beginners. It was not because breathing is not important. As a matter of fact, it is very important. However, a novice may not understand it at first if it was explained. A practitioner has to experience in breathing and grok it after a long time of practice. This experience cannot be transmitted by the word of mouth but experienced by the actual doing. The progressive level of breathing comes natural while performing the basal movements of Tai Ji. The level of progress in Tai Ji was not based on how long has one been practiced. It was determined by how well can one breathe after the practice. Please let me elaborate each numbered item on the breathing in Tai Ji Chuan. 1. This is the ultimate method of breathing in Chi Kung. It was also known as "Abdominal Breathing". Most people have breathing problem can either practice Chi Kung or Tai Ji to correct the problem. Abdominal breathing is the final goal for Tai Ji and Chi Kung practitioners. Thus Tai Ji beginners with a breathing problem were never told to breathe this way; or never taught them how to breathe. Period. 2. The breathing method was done by intermediate students because their breathing problem had been improved from the practice for a long period of time. It just comes in natural and spontaneous from doing the basal movements. 3. This was told to beginners so they will not beware of their breathing habit but just concentrate on the basal movements. Then, they will be realized how their breathing had been improved tremendously after the practice for a long period. How can you tell have you been passed the first level or not..??? It was by how well can you perform items 1 and 2. At the same time, your physical strength had been increased greatly due to the jin(勁) built up in the muscles. inhale while doing entire single form. This is the key in Tai Ji to generate the body energy before one strikes. For example, when one does the repulsive monkey, inhale while the right hand moves backward and stepping back; exhale while the right hand moves forward toward the front again. However, this breathing precess does not have to be told; it just comes natural during practice. Edited July 5, 2012 by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Protector Posted July 5, 2012 Why doesn't anyone want to mention breathing as part of fa jin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted July 5, 2012 Why doesn't anyone want to mention breathing as part of fa jin 'cause it ain't At an advanced level you hide everything. The only reason to show something -- an eye movement, a breath, a flicker of intent -- is to lure the opponent into a trap. You inhale as though about to strike and cause the opponent to "prepare" for the blow -- by instinctively and involuntarily directing his awareness to the area where he anticipates being hit -- and that causes his root to weaken and get misplaced!! -- and you uproot him instead of striking, and you uproot on the inhale!!! -- with fajin!!!! And you send a man whose weight exceeds your own by over a hundred pounds flying like a balloon!!! Unforgettable!!!! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) Why doesn't anyone want to mention breathing as part of fa jin This is the key in Tai Ji to generate the body energy before one strikes. For example, when one does the repulsive monkey, inhale while the right hand moves backward and stepping back; exhale while the right hand moves forward toward the front again. However, this breathing precess does not have to be told; it just comes natural during practice. If one understood was this means, that was the fa jin application. Breathe before moving the hand to strike. 1. Inhale while the right hand moves backward and stepping back; suck in the oxygen for manufacturing ATP before a strike. 2. Exhale while the right hand moves forward toward the front again; release the energy by fa jin. PS... If one doesn't inhale again, then one cannot fa jin again. Edited July 5, 2012 by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Protector Posted July 5, 2012 Huh, sweet, good to know that even I know stuff you guys don't hehehe Though I heard the thing I'm talking about from a karate guy I thought kiai was basic knowledge Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted July 5, 2012 Huh, sweet, good to know that even I know stuff you guys don't hehehe Though I heard the thing I'm talking about from a karate guy I thought kiai was basic knowledge I know what you know by the way of your questioning. You sneaky guy...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted July 6, 2012 Very good... This is the best response so far. Most Tai Ji teacher don't talk about breathing in Tai Ji for beginners. It was not because breathing is not important. As a matter of fact, it is very important. However, a novice may not understand it at first if it was explained. A practitioner has to experience in breathing and grok it after a long time of practice. This experience cannot be transmitted by the word of mouth but experienced by the actual doing. The progressive level of breathing comes natural while performing the basal movements of Tai Ji. The level of progress in Tai Ji was not based on how long has one been practiced. It was determined by how well can one breathe after the practice. Please let me elaborate each numbered item on the breathing in Tai Ji Chuan. 1. This is the ultimate method of breathing in Chi Kung. It was also known as "Abdominal Breathing". Most people have breathing problem can either practice Chi Kung or Tai Ji to correct the problem. Abdominal breathing is the final goal for Tai Ji and Chi Kung practitioners. Thus Tai Ji beginners with a breathing problem were never told to breathe this way; or never taught them how to breathe. Period. 2. The breathing method was done by intermediate students because their breathing problem had been improved from the practice for a long period of time. It just comes in natural and spontaneous from doing the basal movements. 3. This was told to beginners so they will not beware of their breathing habit but just concentrate on the basal movements. Then, they will be realized how their breathing had been improved tremendously after the practice for a long period. How can you tell have you been passed the first level or not..??? It was by how well can you perform items 1 and 2. At the same time, your physical strength had been increased greatly due to the jin(勁) built up in the muscles. This is the key in Tai Ji to generate the body energy before one strikes. For example, when one does the repulsive monkey, inhale while the right hand moves backward and stepping back; exhale while the right hand moves forward toward the front again. However, this breathing precess does not have to be told; it just comes natural during practice. You reversed the seq,,,1 is for beginners,2 for intermediate & 3 for advanced... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) You reversed the seq,,,1 is for beginners,2 for intermediate & 3 for advanced... No. I did not. If you read the last part of no. 1 carefully, then it is not for beginners. Beginners with breathing problems cannot do abdominal breathing right away. Also, read no. 3 carefully. Edited July 6, 2012 by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ish Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) "The level of progress in Tai Ji was not based on how long has one been practiced. It was determined by how well can one breathe after the practice." No way, Taijiquan is a martial art, progress should primarily be based on martial ability. Of course good health & vitality are required and also develop. Edited July 6, 2012 by Ish Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted July 6, 2012 "The level of progress in Tai Ji was not based on how long has one been practiced. It was determined by how well can one breathe after the practice." No way, Taijiquan is a martial art, progress should primarily be based on martial ability. Of course good health & vitality are required and also develop. "good health & vitality are required and also develop." Some people are weak and in poor health to begin with. However, after practicing any form of martial art become healthy. That is the primary reason to practice any martial art, isn't it...??? Thus the part on martial art is secondary. How do you want to set up the priority in your thinking is up to you... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Protector Posted July 6, 2012 Sorry, I'm going to borrow some space now Read from the right panel to the left one, it's translated from Japanese Man, that's a lot of space 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ish Posted July 8, 2012 "good health & vitality are required and also develop." Some people are weak and in poor health to begin with. However, after practicing any form of martial art become healthy. That is the primary reason to practice any martial art, isn't it...??? Thus the part on martial art is secondary. How do you want to set up the priority in your thinking is up to you... No. It's called a MARTIAL art, do you understand what that means? Tai ji CHUAN, do you understand ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted July 8, 2012 (edited) No. It's called a MARTIAL art, do you understand what that means? Tai ji CHUAN, do you understand ? Sorry... What the hell do I know....!!!??? Thanks for your definition of Tai Ji Chuan....!!! Edited July 8, 2012 by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ish Posted July 8, 2012 Sorry... What the hell do I know....!!!??? Thanks for your definition of Tai Ji Chuan....!!! What are you apologising for i simply ask you a question but yet again you don't want to challenge your own beliefs/opinions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RobB Posted July 9, 2012 "The Tai Ji Quan of Li Fang Chen, who was a friend of Du Xing Wu, is a ancient boxing style whose founder was Yang Lu Chan (1799-1872). Yang Lu Chan, forced to teach his art to an imperial court that he abhorred (the Manchus), transformed it as to pass on his personal form only to his family. Yang Lu Chan had three sons and the youngest , Yang Jian Hou (1837-1917) who had Li Fang Chen as a disciple, learned the ancient form of boxing which remained alive but hidden. For his part, the third son of Yang Jian Hou, Yang Cheng Fu (1883-1917), popularized a health exercise based on the movements of the family art. What differentiates them is quite simple: In the modern form, you learn a choreography of martial inspiration that no longer relies on Nei Gong (internal power training), but only on the movement. In the old form, as in all the inernal school boxing styles, many Li Gong (strength training), Nei Gong (internal power training) and combat exercises were practiced before you even see the form. The health aspect of the form comes essentially from the practice of Nei Gong and it is important to know that the martial aspect is not contained in the form." From http://urbandaouk.blogspot.co.uk/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted July 9, 2012 Tai Ji is all in one. Period. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted July 15, 2012 No. It's called a MARTIAL art, do you understand what that means? Tai ji CHUAN, do you understand ? I do understand that any Chinese martial arts which involves with hand movements, a Character Chuan(拳, fist) was placed at the end of a style. BTW the character 'Chuan' doesn't necessary has an implication to encourage a fight in combat. Not in Chinese thinking anyway. People with poor health cannot go into combat. However, their health condition can be improved by practicing martial arts to bring their bodies back to normal condition again. Hence, while practicing martial arts, one can improve one's health and learn MA at the same time. Tai Ji Chuan maybe a form of martial arts, but its primary purpose was to enhance the functions of the body. It just happens to be building up the body in shape for combat if you're insist for that matter.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zerostao Posted July 27, 2012 hmmmmmmmmm so there's no tornado kick in tai chi IS THERE?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! yes there is but it is called sth different. what is the goal of taijiquan? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted July 27, 2012 (edited) what is the goal of taijiquan? To keep yourself in balance with the Yin and Yang consept. Edited August 16, 2012 by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nelida Posted September 2, 2012 I have not read through the entire thread yet, but... "Any force exerted by the muscles, of a long time Tai Ji practitioner, is Fa Jin." or I could underline the entire question... ??? ∞Nelida Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nelida Posted September 2, 2012 ok, forget I asked, I got to page 7 of this thread somehow, and I can see that my question will lead nowhere....I'm not getting into this... ∞Nelida Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
