ChiDragon Posted September 4, 2012 (edited) No. Just be prepared to have your beliefs busted all to hell if they are chauvinistic and supremacist. One insisting to maintain the integrity of one pure idea was considered to be chauvinistic and supremacist. PS.... I do respect the decision of the MODs. However, if you are part of the loop, then please keep your statements as impartial as possible. Edited September 4, 2012 by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted September 4, 2012 Look up chauvinistic and supremacist in the dictionary, would you? My statements can't be impartial to our posted guidelines. I'm partial to following those both as a member and as a mod. If a conflict ever arises between my just-member functions and my mod functions, I'll promptly ask another mod to handle it, that's our drill. Don't worry. If you preach ethnic supremacy, sooner or later you'll get in trouble with each and every mod and the owner of the site too, doesn't have to be me. If you're in trouble with me personally, however, then someone else will be the judge of that. Enjoy! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted September 4, 2012 oh... Thanks....!!! I'm so sorry. My mind was not oriented with western thinking. One day I will figure out what your previous message meant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted September 5, 2012 I can try to explain better. You keep insisting that being Chinese guarantees proficiency in taoist arts, sciences and practices, and being a Westerner guarantees misguided cluelessness. This is chauvinistic and supremacist. You can't belittle someone who has invested study, practice, respect, awareness, yes money too, above all willingness to learn from the source -- which in the case of taoism happens to be Chinese in origins but has transcended the borders because teachers and masters who used to only have Chinese students and disciples now have students and disciples who are Westerners (or non-Chinese Easterners for that matter -- or Pacific Islanders or Eastern Europeans, you name it). These students and disciples are only inferior to others if they are not applying themselves, are stupid, lazy, or too arrogant to humbly learn what a genuine teacher has to offer and too eager to consider themselves experts long before it's warranted. They are NOT inferior for reasons of the color of their skin, the shape of their eyes, or the primary language in which mom sang a lullaby to them. Some Chinese taoist teachers speak excellent English, some speak excellent Russian (I've learned from both sources), and some don't speak English at all but have excellent translators -- and some don't need words to teach. Time to realize that a taoist is not born, he or she is cultivated, and the material out of which he or she is cultivated is ethnically neutral. Anyone who thinks otherwise is merely a sufferer of an inferiority complex defensively covered up by a superiority stance. This is bullshit, my friend. I only feel inferior to someone of superior skill, and rightfully so. No way in hell I will feel inferior to someone who had all the opportunities I didn't and yet failed to use them to really learn. So, that was the gist of it. Did I manage to make myself any clearer? 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted September 5, 2012 Thank you for the explanation. I never had anything in mind that a Westerner guarantees misguided cluelessness. I was only saying that they described in words are so differently than what I had been reading in my native literature. I think I said many times, practice is the key but the words don't count that much. I am sorry it came out to be so offensive. Anyway, let's put this aside now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted September 5, 2012 All right. That works. Thank you. Then back to the real discussion of taijiquan: I think one of the important factors is to learn from a teacher you admire. Mine has never said anything I would disagree with, or moved in a way I wouldn't want to emulate, but the main thing is his qi, the vibe. It energizes and vitalizes. I never feel as strong practicing by myself as in his presence. That's one thing, out of many, that I meant when I said that some teachers teach without words (and not necessarily because they can't read, write, or spell things out in another language.) Taiji is learned from the teacher's presence and touch -- as one (Western) source put it, "like a candle lit from a candle." Can't light a candle by telling it how to burn, you know... regardless of the language you use. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted September 5, 2012 (edited) Taomeaow.... I don't think that you are in China with your teacher right now. Do you still practice Tai Ji on your own....??? Do you think that "It energizes and vitalizes" was a psychological issue....??? I think self practice has a lot of self discipline and determination which trains the mind for mental and physical control or "Yi". Edited September 5, 2012 by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted September 5, 2012 ChiDragon, my taiji teacher is right here in California. He's been teaching here for over 20 years. I see him every week. Year after year. It's not psychological. Much less an "issue." (FYI, "a psychological issue," in English, is a euphemism that means "an emotional or mental problem.") My main taoist teacher is in China. Maybe that's the source of your misunderstanding of my ongoing vs. sporadic exposure to live instruction. With taiji, it's ongoing. With taoist cultivation, I'm on my own, after getting instructions and transmissions from the teacher. When I can, I'll see him again I hope. If I could, I'd see him all the time, like I see my taiji teacher. No such luck, alas. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted September 5, 2012 Taomeow.... So, how far are you in your Tai Ji lessons.....??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nelida Posted September 5, 2012 (edited) Taomeow said: "Taiji is learned from the teacher's presence and touch -- as one (Western) source put it, "like a candle lit from a candle." Can't light a candle by telling it how to burn, you know..." I love that! My teacher is just like that, an utter delight to know as a person and learn from, I don't know anyone who is so obviously crazy joyous and passionate about the things he does, and he has so much fun in working with us, and beside that, he is the real deal, in terms of the depth of the training that he gives, he is a generous, freely giving person who I hope to keep learning from for a very long time ∞Nelida Edited September 5, 2012 by Nelida Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted September 6, 2012 Taomeow.... So, how far are you in your Tai Ji lessons.....??? Behind everybody who started earlier than me under the same excellent teacher and practiced more. Ahead of everybody who started later and practiced less. Most importantly, WAY ahead of myself, the way my body and mind worked when I just started. Taiji is immense. A lifetime is not enough to grasp even a percentage of all it has. One of the people who told me this is 65, has been doing taiji for 40 years, can kick absolutely anyone's ass (I've seen it done, not a demo -- he regularly visits MA schools to check out who can do what, and no one can do anything against him) -- but still thinks that his teacher is light years ahead of him and hopes to learn from him for the rest of his life. I think you are arguing a moot point. Without a good teacher, there's no taiji, no matter what you've been telling yourself. If a good teacher is not available where you live, people ISO real taiji who know how important one is sometimes travel very long distances to get to one. If he or she is available but you're convinced you don't need them and taiji can be successfully obtained as a do-it-yourself project, then you have no taiji and no hope of ever getting it. The minimal, tantalizingly slow progress one makes while learning the real thing may not seem as such a great deal... until you compare it to never getting it at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted September 6, 2012 Taomeow said: "Taiji is learned from the teacher's presence and touch -- as one (Western) source put it, "like a candle lit from a candle." Can't light a candle by telling it how to burn, you know..." I love that! My teacher is just like that, an utter delight to know as a person and learn from, I don't know anyone who is so obviously crazy joyous and passionate about the things he does, and he has so much fun in working with us, and beside that, he is the real deal, in terms of the depth of the training that he gives, he is a generous, freely giving person who I hope to keep learning from for a very long time ∞Nelida You are very lucky! Yes, that's another thing -- a good teacher's very life working as an involuntary ad for his art... what Castaneda's Don Juan called "impeccability." A real teacher is impeccable. Not in the sense he or she is a saint, but in the sense of "doing your absolute best in absolutely everything you do." This generates spontaneous joy emanating from his/her presence, and some extra energy to go around. Besides the practice, the source of extra energy impeccable teachers have is that they don't use up any of it on stupid "moods," false facades, straining to impress, etc.. They use energy only toward doing the real thing... impeccably. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mYTHmAKER Posted September 6, 2012 A good teacher is always learning. Is playing taiji for the joy of it. A good teacher is teaching you things you don't even know you are being taught Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted September 6, 2012 So, a Tai Ji student has to learn from a good teacher and always depends on having a teach and never be one's own.....??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted September 6, 2012 So, a Tai Ji student has to learn from a good teacher and always depends on having a teach and never be one's own.....??? It depends on how good he or she aims to get and what his or her purpose is. E.g., my own teacher was an indoor student of Li Deyin for ten years. (Li Deyin was the one who actually made taiji widely available to people in China, after decades of prohibitions and marginalization, and took it international -- see http://www.deyin-taiji.com/about-us/4-professor-li-deyin ). After that, he studied with other masters, notably with all the best Chen stylists, traveling to Chen village to learn from the old authentic lineage holders, studying with all the Four Tigers, and with Chen Fake/Hong Junsheng lineage folks in Beijing. And to this day, he uses every opportunity to learn something new from this or that master of great skill, organizing workshops every year so both he and his students can get exposure to all aspects of the power of taiji including the ones that he might not be teaching himself, traveling to China every year, and getting invited to many countries to do workshops spreading the art far and wide -- which is HIS goal, in accordance with the desire of his main teacher who transmitted the lineage in this manner, setting this particular task. He doesn't have a regular teacher of his own now because no one in the area is qualified to teach him, but based on what I know and have seen, if anyone was available whose skill is superior, he'd be learning from that person, no question. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nelida Posted September 6, 2012 Taomeow, impeccability yes!! Mythmaker said: "A good teacher is always learning. Is playing taiji for the joy of it. A good teacher is teaching you things you don't even know you are being taught " yep, so true!! 'remember, nothing is for nothing...everything I make you do has a purpose, even if you don't see it now." and people around me are starting to make wax on wax off jokes ah chenjiagou, hope to be able to go there soon ∞Nelida Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zerostao Posted September 6, 2012 it is most definately true that one learns better by playing than by practicing imo how do young animals learn? how do children learn? how do great taiji players learn? play plays playing playfully good insight there mythie lets play! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted September 6, 2012 Animals learn by natural instinct. Children learn to burn their fingers with fire. It is called the childish play. Practice is a more serious play if you want to call it play. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zerostao Posted September 6, 2012 animals natural instinct is to learn by playing. sorry to hear about your harsh childhood mine is (hehehe) was? spent playing and learning. practice is boring, serious or not. play is great fun and like mythie mentioned it is play becoz of the joy. maybe chidragon practices joyfully? if so , keep on keepin on easier to play when relaxed, right? right! i wish someone(qualified) would start a thread about the similarities of the internal martial arts anyways put me in the camp of the taiji player rather than the taiji practicer 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shanlung Posted September 7, 2012 (edited) Moved over to http://thetaobums.com/topic/24575-taijiquan-styles/page__st__32 Warmest regards Shanlung 山 龍 Mountain Dragon http://shanlung.com/ aka The Taoistic Idiot Edited September 10, 2012 by shanlung 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted September 7, 2012 Description of FaJin in Chinese TAI CHI FA JING THEORY Note: Only Tai Ji Practitioners have the Fa Jin ability. No other types of martial arts have this kind of ability. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mYTHmAKER Posted September 7, 2012 shanlung thank you for your input based on your experience Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Protector Posted September 8, 2012 Dragoon, Bajiquan is famous with their fa jin Ah wait, we already went over that in another thread Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted September 8, 2012 Dragoon, Bajiquan is famous with their fa jin Ah wait, we already went over that in another thread Okay, I wasn't exposed to that too much.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted September 8, 2012 Description of FaJin in Chinese TAI CHI FA JING THEORY Note: Only Tai Ji Practitioners have the Fa Jin ability. No other types of martial arts have this kind of ability. are you serious? you mean hsingyi, bagua players dont have fa jin? Fa jin is inherent to all internal martial arts! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
