What is Tai Ji Chuan(太極拳) ...?

[Nelida]

woot, I'm with you Shanlung, ChiDragon really is a ********, but you could never make him believe that, the horse he sits on is so high, he simply is above humility and any martial morals, I think he trains alone because they got tired of him telling the master of the class he was wrong all the time, he doesn't even realize that nobody takes him serious anymore,

 

I would love to learn more from your experience with taijiquan and it hurts my heart to read of your little friend in the past tense it's good to see you here

 

∞Nelida

Edited September 9, 2012 by Nelida

[ChiDragon]

http://www.google.co...UbHc1l5df5v_v_g

 

Intermediate level fa jing...

 

By observation, the younger kid was Fa Li not Fa Jin because he has no Jin. If one know some basic physics, one can push anybody while standing to get one off balance.

 

The purpose of Fa Jin was to be able to Fa at any time at any position. The man has to breathe three times in the roll and move his body up and down to put all this effort to push a little guy. If you call that Fa Jin and learn it from that, go ahead.

Edited September 9, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Taomeow]

Notice that this is not some magical, imaginary, force field crap that you'll see in so many other videos. This is the real deal. No magic, just proper application of physics and anatomy. Oh, and decades of practice with proper instruction... That dedication and commitment as well as the absolute beauty and ingenuity of the method - THAT is the magic.

 

I wouldn't discount taoist alchemy leading to magic -- all masters of top fajin ability include it in their training. Proper application of physics and anatomy all the way to the logical infinity they invariably disappear into has magic as its natural outcome. Only limited applications of same and limited understanding of the immensity of the properties of the universe and the body alike are mundane, drummed into every common-denominator head, scientific or otherwise. Taoists simply don't limit themselves to what we are told to limit ourselves to in our expectations of what the universe and the human body are capable of.

 

For those who remember Castaneda (I've given some of his books a re-read recently, just to compare what, if anything, they have for me today vis a vis what they had at first encounter), high level fajin ability predicated on physics and anatomy is still on the "island of the tonal" in its entirety, or in our more proprietary terms, in taiji. But this is not the end of the story -- top level fajin and beyond, where there's no "levels," fajin arising in wuji, belongs to the infinite realm of the nagual. In fact, the very process of creation, wuji to taiji, happens via a fajin impulse arising from the third trigram -- not physical, not anatomical, just inherent in the nature of tao. One of its "virtues." Wuji fajins.

[Protector]

It does tell you where the Jin came from. If you have to move your arms and legs, then it has nothing to do with the muscles.....???? Do you think that Chi stuff people telling you is a miracle....???

 

A lot of baguazhang people try to get to the point where they move their arms without relying on the muscles.

Also, no one was ever telling me that the chi stuff was a miracle. There's nothing to tell to me, even right when I joined this place I was one of the strongest people here, if not the. aaaaaaaaaaah, the arrogance, everybody run.

[Nelida]

I wouldn't discount taoist alchemy leading to magic -- all masters of top fajin ability include it in their training. Proper application of physics and anatomy all the way to the logical infinity they invariably disappear into has magic as its natural outcome. Only limited applications of same and limited understanding of the immensity of the properties of the universe and the body alike are mundane, drummed into every common-denominator head, scientific or otherwise. Taoists simply don't limit themselves to what we are told to limit ourselves to in our expectations of what the universe and the human body are capable of.

 

For those who remember Castaneda (I've given some of his books a re-read recently, just to compare what, if anything, they have for me today vis a vis what they had at first encounter), high level fajin ability predicated on physics and anatomy is still on the "island of the tonal" in its entirety, or in our more proprietary terms, in taiji. But this is not the end of the story -- top level fajin and beyond, where there's no "levels," fajin arising in wuji, belongs to the infinite realm of the nagual. In fact, the very process of creation, wuji to taiji, happens via a fajin impulse arising from the third trigram -- not physical, not anatomical, just inherent in the nature of tao. One of its "virtues." Wuji fajins.

 

yes Taomeow, good reference!!

I have reread a lot of it too, recently, there is so much clarity there

 

∞Nelida

[ChiDragon]

A lot of baguazhang people try to get to the point where they move their arms without relying on the muscles.Also, no one was ever telling me that the chi stuff was a miracle. There's nothing to tell to me, even right when I joined this place I was one of the strongest people here, if not the. aaaaaaaaaaah, the arrogance, everybody run.

 

Yes, you are a strong guy physically and mentally indeed. You are a really cool guy as always.....

 

 

Edited to add:

"....... they move their arms without relying on the muscles."

 

I am contemplating on that ....is that humanly possible....!!!

Edited September 9, 2012 by ChiDragon

[spiraltao]

Yes, you are a strong guy physically and mentally indeed. You are a really cool guy as always.....

 

 

Edited to add:

"....... they move their arms without relying on the muscles."

 

I am contemplating on that ....is that humanly possible....!!!

Yes, you are a strong guy physically and mentally indeed. You are a really cool guy as always.....

 

 

Edited to add:

"....... they move their arms without relying on the muscles."

 

I am contemplating on that ....is that humanly possible....!!!

 

...of course, the waist is the yi that guides them!

[ChiDragon]

...of course, the waist is the yi that guides them!

 

Okay....I'll have to take your word for it....

[doc benway]

I wouldn't discount taoist alchemy leading to magic -- all masters of top fajin ability include it in their training. Proper application of physics and anatomy all the way to the logical infinity they invariably disappear into has magic as its natural outcome. Only limited applications of same and limited understanding of the immensity of the properties of the universe and the body alike are mundane, drummed into every common-denominator head, scientific or otherwise. Taoists simply don't limit themselves to what we are told to limit ourselves to in our expectations of what the universe and the human body are capable of.

 

For those who remember Castaneda (I've given some of his books a re-read recently, just to compare what, if anything, they have for me today vis a vis what they had at first encounter), high level fajin ability predicated on physics and anatomy is still on the "island of the tonal" in its entirety, or in our more proprietary terms, in taiji. But this is not the end of the story -- top level fajin and beyond, where there's no "levels," fajin arising in wuji, belongs to the infinite realm of the nagual. In fact, the very process of creation, wuji to taiji, happens via a fajin impulse arising from the third trigram -- not physical, not anatomical, just inherent in the nature of tao. One of its "virtues." Wuji fajins.

Very good points. I reread the entire Castaneda oeuvre about 3 or 4 years ago and really got a lot out of it.

It's also helpful to read some of the other Toltec authors to get a sense of Carlos' point of departure.

 

To be clear, I do not discount the possibility of magic. In fact, I think my very awareness/existence is more magical than anything my measly mind could dream up. It's just too close and familiar to be meaningful unless we make the effort to thoroughly investigate it (remember the admonition "to turn the light back on itself?"- mundane yet profound).

 

On the other hand, rather than believe in something that may be beyond my direct experience, I currently choose to focus on what I can experience directly. That is, I intend to put one foot in front of the other and continue to train and investigate in order to see if I can discover whatever there is that may transcend what I currently know and experience. If the magic is out there, beyond me, I intend to try and find it rather than simply believe something I read or am told.

 

I think it will be a better use of my time to focus on the day to day training. This is something I got from my teacher - very much a pragmatist. It's already paid off, in fact - big time. The methods work and you don't even have to believe, just practice... The reason I tend to emphasize the more mundane and approachable side of the arts is that I find that the majority of students will get distracted and waste way too much time looking for magic rather than developing the real magic through hard work.

[dwai]

By observation, the younger kid was Fa Li not Fa Jin because he has no Jin. If one know some basic physics, one can push anybody while standing to get one off balance.

The purpose of Fa Jin was to be able to Fa at any time at any position. The man has to breathe three times in the roll and move his body up and down to put all this effort to push a little guy. If you call that Fa Jin and learn it from that, go ahead.

 

Fa jing is preceded by condensing...when my teacher does it, i can feel the energy condense but his muscles dont tense...

For intermediate level peope its not easy to condense and release...so i get it when these guys in the vid do what they were doing.

 

They will only get better with time. But those who think they know Fa jing but develop muscle tone instead, end up carrying tension in their bodies and will inevitably present a surface for their opponent or training partners to push against...

 

O well...looks like you are digging a nice big hole you can crawl into...

 

[ChiDragon]

Muscle tone is only a modern term that maybe contradictory to ancient thinking.

 

PS....

I love to discuss in more detail but my understanding is so different than others. Further discussion will turn this thread into a battlefield. Therefore, I choose not to proceed any further. Thanks....

Edited September 10, 2012 by ChiDragon

[GrandmasterP]

Very good points. I reread the entire Castaneda oeuvre about 3 or 4 years ago and really got a lot out of it.

It's also helpful to read some of the other Toltec authors to get a sense of Carlos' point of departure.

 

To be clear, I do not discount the possibility of magic. In fact, I think my very awareness/existence is more magical than anything my measly mind could dream up. It's just too close and familiar to be meaningful unless we make the effort to thoroughly investigate it (remember the admonition "to turn the light back on itself?"- mundane yet profound).

 

On the other hand, rather than believe in something that may be beyond my direct experience, I currently choose to focus on what I can experience directly. That is, I intend to put one foot in front of the other and continue to train and investigate in order to see if I can discover whatever there is that may transcend what I currently know and experience. If the magic is out there, beyond me, I intend to try and find it rather than simply believe something I read or am told.

 

I think it will be a better use of my time to focus on the day to day training. This is something I got from my teacher - very much a pragmatist. It's already paid off, in fact - big time. The methods work and you don't even have to believe, just practice... The reason I tend to emphasize the more mundane and approachable side of the arts is that I find that the majority of students will get distracted and waste way too much time looking for magic rather than developing the real magic through hard work.

..........................................................................

Magic may or may not get you very far but you know where you stand with training. Cultivation progress can be measured.

It's almost like magic.

[shanlung]

login > arrow next to nic > Manage Ignore Prefs > Add a new user to my list > ChiDragon > Save Changes.

 

That was exactly what I have done.

 

I found a better thread on taijichuan, with more knowledgable folks there, than the starter of this thread.

 

I moved my entry post on taijichuan over there.

 

This is the last time folks will see me in this thread.

I will talk of my taiji experience in that other thread.

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/24575-taijiquan-styles/page__st__32

[ChiDragon]

I hope you all continue to have a great heart in your long term cultivation. May Tao be with you....!!!

Edited September 10, 2012 by ChiDragon

[spiraltao]

Okay....I'll have to take your word for it....

Okay....I'll have to take your word for it....

 

I suppose shen would have been the correct term, I associate yi with will, but i guess it takes the shen to create the jing to change it from will to action. This is a very simple concept, does it make sense.

 

In the songs it says the yi is the general. That could be my mis understanding.

[ChiDragon]

I suppose shen would have been the correct term, I associate yi with will, but i guess it takes the shen to create the jing to change it from will to action. This is a very simple concept, does it make sense.

 

In the songs it says the yi is the general. That could be my mis understanding.

 

These are TCM terms. Never mind. It's confusing enough....!!!

[ChiDragon]

...of course, the waist is the yi that guides them!

 

I suppose shen would have been the correct term, I associate yi with will, but i guess it takes the shen to create the jing to change it from will to action. This is a very simple concept, does it make sense.

 

In the songs it says the yi is the general. That could be my mis understanding.

 

Now, I have some time to respond to this. FYI Yi(意) is the intend of the mind. Actually, Yi is your thinking which tells the body what to do.