Friend Posted December 15, 2013 (edited) Just got dvd-s recently ... I have been practicing the first 9 movementst from GOT1 dvd ... I feel the energy from the first day on ... seems really simple and powrfull practice to me ...   I know that SM & GOT is complete system, just courious, if anyone combine it with other practices. I primarly practice healing tao, and enjoy it really much ...  I will be glad to hear your esperiences ...   Peace, Jox Jox, the system is safe. You can do exercise whatever you want.  It is only overwhelming if you use a system that project energy on yourself (I have one, and that is too much since the orginal projection just calculate with personal energy)  The other is that when you exercise other techniques which does not have spontaneus movement it will cause spontaneus movement, especially if it is static exercise to regulate the posture and body allignment.  At times when one use visualisation one has also to watch out that at times the pictures are changing on its own and maybe showing colours and forms different than you imagine which is also part of Zifa - spontanues.   Zifa Gong is part of the Jing Dong Gong system that triggers on its own with long practise and especially of static exercise but can also happen in GoT.  The difference to Jing Dong Gong is that Zifa Gong can happen natural without doing nothing and allowing everthing and that time and practise expirience is needed until there is enough energy build to cause spontaneus movement.  A different thing is that also cause and triggers Zifa Gong is when one use movement. Such an example is Shaolin Whanam arcording Sifu Wong Kiew Kit. The movement triggers a Chi Flow. Best introduced and teached on the example of Lifting the Sky. What he passes on is a greater Chi Flow which reduce the repetition for movement to cause the Zifa and with his years of increasing practise it become that the student need to exercise less and less.  This is different than in Jing Dong Gong as here the great Quantity and Quality of Qi and the inherit energetics that cause the movement and is internal, the GoT comes from the Jing Dong Gong and is helping to manifest certain qualities of the Jing Dong Gong.  One can say the movements are in the beginning of JDG chaotic and mostly selfadjusting but with longer practise manifest the movements of the GoT on its own. By using GoT one smooths out and ease the manifestation and so shortening the time they have to appear in JDG.  The form goes from physical, energetical, mental result into without intent of Wu Wei.  GoT is a manifestation as a set of movements as the ancient found by doing their quit standing practise with Zifa in nature and this resulted in Primordial Tai Chi which later become Tai Chi Chuan in Zhang Lineage.  The aspect of GoT is that it is between the Primordial Tai Chi and the Zifa Gong. So the energetics are easier to manifest and turn back to the source of Zifa Gong, as in GoT it happens that one go into a different pattern of Zifa.  So the practise of Tai Chi Chuan may takes very long to develop energetics if one has heard of certain lineage approve it and Primordial has more the energetic aspect which I find after perfoming is indeed syncronize with Jing Dong Gong, the thing is Primodial and the Chuan are became linear.  Linearity cause stucking by loosing the Zifa aspect (which I seen that two school are try to avoid that- one hidden school I should not name and the other Shaolin Wahnam) by the intention behind the movements and its precision because of the gain of control. In Zifa one not control and ask for symmetric and body alignment  (So Tai Chi Chuan Reiki 2.0 isnt so far away. Only just Chuan is 4th generation as Reiki is also modern. The only mistake may come in the 2.0. It is as if one said a dinosaur is an offspring from something of our age. The answer is "What was before Tai Chi Chuan and Reiki?" Actually on can see this a flattery : "Oh you look so young like your nephews!") Edited December 15, 2013 by Friend 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jox Posted December 15, 2013 (edited) Jox, the system is safe. You can do exercise whatever you want.  It is only overwhelming if you use a system that project energy on yourself (I have one, and that is too much since the orginal projection just calculate with personal energy)  The other is that when you exercise other techniques which does not have spontaneus movement it will cause spontaneus movement, especially if it is static exercise to regulate the posture and body allignment.  At times when one use visualisation one has also to watch out that at times the pictures are changing on its own and maybe showing colours and forms different than you imagine which is also part of Zifa - spontanues.   Zifa Gong is part of the Jing Dong Gong system that triggers on its own with long practise and especially of static exercise but can also happen in GoT.  The difference to Jing Dong Gong is that Zifa Gong can happen natural without doing nothing and allowing everthing and that time and practise expirience is needed until there is enough energy build to cause spontaneus movement.  A different thing is that also cause and triggers Zifa Gong is when one use movement. Such an example is Shaolin Whanam arcording Sifu Wong Kiew Kit. The movement triggers a Chi Flow. Best introduced and teached on the example of Lifting the Sky. What he passes on is a greater Chi Flow which reduce the repetition for movement to cause the Zifa and with his years of increasing practise it become that the student need to exercise less and less.  This is different than in Jing Dong Gong as here the great Quantity and Quality of Qi and the inherit energetics that cause the movement and is internal, the GoT comes from the Jing Dong Gong and is helping to manifest certain qualities of the Jing Dong Gong.  One can say the movements are in the beginning of JDG chaotic and mostly selfadjusting but with longer practise manifest the movements of the GoT on its own. By using GoT one smooths out and ease the manifestation and so shortening the time they have to appear in JDG.  The form goes from physical, energetical, mental result into without intent of Wu Wei.  GoT is a manifestation as a set of movements as the ancient found by doing their quit standing practise with Zifa in nature and this resulted in Primordial Tai Chi which later become Tai Chi Chuan in Zhang Lineage.  The aspect of GoT is that it is between the Primordial Tai Chi and the Zifa Gong. So the energetics are easier to manifest and turn back to the source of Zifa Gong, as in GoT it happens that one go into a different pattern of Zifa.  So the practise of Tai Chi Chuan may takes very long to develop energetics if one has heard of certain lineage approve it and Primordial has more the energetic aspect which I find after perfoming is indeed syncronize with Jing Dong Gong, the thing is Primodial and the Chuan are became linear.  Linearity cause stucking by loosing the Zifa aspect (which I seen that two school are try to avoid that- one hidden school I should not name and the other Shaolin Wahnam) by the intention behind the movements and its precision because of the gain of control. In Zifa one not control and ask for symmetric and body alignment  (So Tai Chi Chuan Reiki 2.0 isnt so far away. Only just Chuan is 4th generation as Reiki is also modern. The only mistake may come in the 2.0. It is as if one said a dinosaur is an offspring from something of our age. The answer is "What was before Tai Chi Chuan and Reiki?" Actually on can see this a flattery : "Oh you look so young like your nephews!")  Thank you Friend for your comprehensive answer ... Now it is more clear to me ...  Peace, Jox Edited December 15, 2013 by Jox 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ya Mu Posted December 16, 2013 Thanks for sharing. I have been dense about this, and a similar realisation took a while for me. I am still learning about this.  I have felt how working with, mixing, and balancing Heaven & Earth can mean so many things, and I know I haven't even scratched the surface yet.   Indeed, when I first learned GoT I all too easily approached the practice from past experiences. Older habits/conditioning/teaching need time to fade.  I am still learning new layers to what Ya Mu told me the first time I met him when he took the time to explain aspects of the system. I understood what he was saying at the time, and today I understand what he said, and yet the two are worlds apart!   Even with the martial training, I started at age 8, I never developed strong intent. Though I have experienced and used strong intent in life, it was something I never really learned to bring forth into my martial art. And don't think I didn't try. At one point I went a little far, and with lets say an approach where I was becoming someone I didn't want to be. Some doors once open never fully close again. I realised I had been lucky enough to have a life where I hadn't needed to open those doors, so why do so for the sake of it. Soon after I was introduced to fighting without intent, and I found this made a world of difference. But I digress...  I appreciate more and more why the GoT movements are "simple" physically. Though I was talking with a fellow student the other day and saying how I can practice taiji walking and do one leg stepping exercises fine (not perfectly), but when it comes to the ones in GoT there is something else going on and finding 'balance' is a whole other thing! hahah   I have been feeling and to an extent pondering upon this recently as well. The relationship between your own state, how you feel and how much you can help others. There is the discernment which is in Ya Mu's book about being honest with yourself.  I had made a decision regarding this over the weekend. Come Monday, due to what I had on that day, I prayed and put it out that I was more prepared to help those that needed it.   Yes, it felt like assuming responsibility. The result? Three enquiries in 24 hours from as far away as India, all of a nature that was quite a leap for me! Talk about saying something and getting a response, I looked at this and thought, "right, what is the best way forward, how can I help, how can I help them BE helped".   Discernment is right. I contacted Ya Mu, since I wasn't sure if I'd be biting off more than I could chew. Happy to help, to do (there is no try right ?) to listen, but as he says above and reminded me, you can't help everyone.  The e-mail about that also came at an auspicious time for me, I received it shortly after getting back from clinic with a tough patient. It was like receiving an indirect confirmation. Sometimes there is more that needs to be learned for them. Will of the Light/Dao indeed.  I have dipped into it, but not re-read the book since Hilton Head. I KNOW I will understand things quite differently.    Curiouser and curiouser, just how deep does the rabbit hole go?...   Best,  "Curiouser and curiouser, just how deep does the rabbit hole go?..." 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ya Mu Posted December 16, 2013 Just got dvd-s recently ... I have been practicing the first 9 movementst from GOT1 dvd ... I feel the energy from the first day on ... seems really simple and powrfull practice to me ... Â Â I know that SM & GOT is complete system, just courious, if anyone combine it with other practices. I primarly practice healing tao, and enjoy it really much ... Â I will be glad to hear your esperiences ... Â Â Peace, Jox I was just gonna say "No Problem", but see Friend went into detail. Â A thing to consider, when choosing which practices to do, is efficiency. I have learned and discarded quite a bit of qigong. Gift of the Tao has an extremely high efficiency as it goes direct to the energy itself. About the only thing I don't like is forced methods. 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tendou Posted December 18, 2013 Can you guys explain a little bit on intent? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ya Mu Posted December 18, 2013 Can you guys explain a little bit on intent? THAT through which manifestation occurs utilizing energy. Differs from the linear concept of intention and is potentially instantaneous (bypassing linear space/time paradigm). 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiverSnake Posted December 19, 2013 (edited) I have noticed for awhile that when doing S-M.....even though my awareness will be on my LDT it sometimes feels like there is a Chi Kegger going on in my forehead. The depth of clarity in which you perceive things from the stillness of this state is pretty awesome. Â But at times it can be a bit disorienting and although I am experiencing things in clarity I can be "zoning out" at the same time if that makes any sense. Was wondering if anyone could give any tips for this? Â My 2 cents, Peace Edited December 19, 2013 by OldChi 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted December 19, 2013 Don't try to fight it or force it or analyze it. Bask in the awareness of the entire experience, allow it to simply happen, and then give yourself time after practice to assimilate, integrate and shift back into the mundane. You are altering yourself energetically and the ripples continue to radiate and reflect for a while. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnC Posted December 19, 2013 I have noticed for awhile that when doing S-M.....even though my awareness will be on my LDT it sometimes feels like there is a Chi Kegger going on in my forehead. The depth of clarity in which you perceive things from the stillness of this state is pretty awesome. Â But at times it can be a bit disorienting and although I am experiencing things in clarity I can be "zoning out" at the same time if that makes any sense. Was wondering if anyone could give any tips for this? Â My 2 cents, Peace Huh, this is my experience as well. That as I hold my awareness on my ldt it's almost like there is a buzzing or increasing of light in my head or something. Â I don't have the zoning out experience, but I do notice what feels like energy in my head or third eye area. Â Thanks, John Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted December 19, 2013 (edited) Keep passive awareness on dantien and energy will flow where it is needed when it is needed, overflowing dantien and activating/opening other gates and centers in turn. Take care to not focus on any of those energy centers too much, though -- you aren't trying to lead the energy. Â Be sure to do your closings -- each component of the system (meditative or moving) has a closing for a reason... Â Yes, dan mo is definitely one of the energy centers jing dong gong awakens. Â Edited December 19, 2013 by Brian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiverSnake Posted December 19, 2013 (edited) give yourself time after practice to assimilate, integrate and shift back into the mundane.Yeah.....the only time this experience has bothered me was when I am practicing during the day outside of a formal session (in class, at a meeting....etc) it can make perceiving the particulars of what's occurring around you a bit difficult to grasp. Shifting on the go....can be a bit haphazard I guess. Â My 2 cents, Peace Edited December 19, 2013 by OldChi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted December 19, 2013 Disclaimer: Always shift responsibly. Do not operate heavy machinery after shifting until you know how it will affect you. Exercise caution while shifting in public. Â 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiverSnake Posted December 19, 2013 Disclaimer: Always shift responsibly. Do not operate heavy machinery after shifting until you know how it will affect you. Exercise caution while shifting in public. Â Â Â Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Green Tiger Posted December 19, 2013 I have a few prayers I say every morning as I walk into work. It's an old habit I've had for several years. I've often noted the distinct difference I feel when I'm really with the words as I speak them, when my intent and attention is fully present, as opposed to when I just say the words in a mechanical way. Â I try to always be fully with them, but sometimes distractions get the better of me or my mind wanders. Â As I was reading this thread today, I thought of those prayers and the difference I feel. It occurred to me that the feeling of being with the words is the same as being with the movements in GOT I. Sometimes I'm really with them, sometimes I'm not fully there. As an experiment, I went and did a few movements on my lunch break. WOW! It's amazing how powerful the movements can be when you're really fully involved with them. Fully present. Â I only did the first three movements of GOT 1, but I went back to my desk feeling much more energized. When I sat down, I could tell a huge difference in my posture from before I went on break. Really amazing. Can't wait to get off work and practice some more. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
寒月 Hanyue Posted December 19, 2013 (edited) But at times it can be a bit disorienting and although I am experiencing things in clarity I can be "zoning out" at the same time if that makes any sense. Was wondering if anyone could give any tips for this?  The zoning out is an expansion of the shen, it is part and partial of shifting and dimension expansion, you aren't doing anything wrong. Follow Brian's advice, allow but don't indulge.  There is a reason it can be hard to speak, let alone interact with others after practice.  I'm sorry folks, but I'm going to be pernickity.... its 單目 dan mu, not dan mo  It is a most interesting term, and after Hilton I understood its relationship to Hawks and some other things.  Best, Edited December 19, 2013 by snowmonki 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted December 19, 2013 (edited)  The zoning out is an expansion of the shen, it is part and partial of shifting and dimension expansion, you aren't doing anything wrong. Follow Brian's advice, allow but don't indulge.  There is a reason it can be hard to speak, let alone interact with others after practice.  I'm sorry folks, but I'm going to be pernickity.... its 單目 dan mu, not dan mo  It is a most interesting term, and after Hilton I understood its relationship to Hawks and some other things.  Best,  ^^^ Thank you, snowmonki! That was my mistake.  EDIT: Wow! Suddenly that makes sense. Thanks again! Edited December 19, 2013 by Brian 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiverSnake Posted December 19, 2013 The zoning out is an expansion of the shen, it is part and partial of shifting and dimension expansion, you aren't doing anything wrong. Follow Brian's advice, allow but don't indulge.  There is a reason it can be hard to speak, let alone interact with others after practice.  I'm sorry folks, but I'm going to be pernickity.... its 單目 dan mu, not dan mo  It is a most interesting term, and after Hilton I understood its relationship to Hawks and some other things.  Best,  Thanks for the additional insights. Cool stuff.  My 2 cents, Peace 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
寒月 Hanyue Posted December 19, 2013 ^^^ Thank you, snowmonki! That was my mistake.  EDIT: Wow! Suddenly that makes sense. Thanks again!  Not at all, there's a reason I know. Correct Chinese pronouciation is hardly important, except when you talk to Chinese people regularly  Learning Mandarin still doesn't help when your inlaws gossip round the dinner table in Cantonese though!  Best, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted December 19, 2013 The real value came from the characters themselves, and in plugging them into a translator or two. The pronunciation just helps me not look any more foolish than I otherwise would... Â Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ya Mu Posted December 20, 2013 "WOW! It's amazing how powerful the movements can be when you're really fully involved with them. Fully present." Yes, it is the energy itself in which we stay in the moment of the moment. Good realization! "The zoning out is an expansion of the shen, it is part and partial of shifting and dimension expansion, you aren't doing anything wrong. Follow Brian's advice, allow but don't indulge. There is a reason it can be hard to speak, let alone interact with others after practice...." Very good! "Keep passive awareness on dantien and energy will flow where it is needed when it is needed, overflowing dantien and activating/opening other gates and centers in turn. Take care to not focus on any of those energy centers too much, though -- you aren't trying to lead the energy.Be sure to do your closings -- each component of the system (meditative or moving) has a closing for a reason... Yes, dan (Mu) is definitely one of the energy centers jing dong gong awakens." Great advice! My Chinese language abilities are terrible, despite having attempted to learn the language. Every few years I get my Chinese terms mixed up as I don't practice the language anymore. So no worries on what you call it as long as you understand what it is. In the way we use it, the interpretation can mean "Single Eye", "Spirit Eye", "True Self Eye". In our system the development of this is concurrent with the development of ALL the energy centers. I do caution anyone against "playing" with this as you would be "playing" with fire in the sense that very few people even need to be concerned with this. In fact, in medical qigong there are only a few people in our system that have reached the level of doing so and even they (myself included) approach with extreme caution. In medical qigong it is more of "is this your talent" sort of thing, although indirectly and subconsciously it is utilized in our learning to "dance in wu wei"; hence the concurrent development. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wayne R. Tucker Posted December 20, 2013 I have found that my CHI level can be drained by over use. Under highly controled experiments and changing circumstances I found that I could do anything I wanted with my CHI but only for about three minutes of continuous use. This experiment was conducted 6 times at varying times of the day and under different circumstances. After my CHI was used up it took about half an hour to restore. I have tried the same experiment on several of my students with the same result. After the cut off point in the controlled environment the attempts were scored as that of pure random chance. Anybody know why the CHI flow was diminished like that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ya Mu Posted December 20, 2013 Hi Wayne, Are you practicing the Gift of the Tao I and II movements? If so, how long per day? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted December 20, 2013 I have found that my CHI level can be drained by over use. Under highly controled experiments and changing circumstances I found that I could do anything I wanted with my CHI but only for about three minutes of continuous use. This experiment was conducted 6 times at varying times of the day and under different circumstances. After my CHI was used up it took about half an hour to restore. I have tried the same experiment on several of my students with the same result. After the cut off point in the controlled environment the attempts were scored as that of pure random chance. Anybody know why the CHI flow was diminished like that? Â I'm not SM person, but I'd say 6 times is not very many, or long enough to tell anything. Try everyday for a month or few. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ya Mu Posted December 20, 2013 Wayne, "Are you practicing the Gift of the Tao I and II movements? If so, how long per day?" In addition, did you attend the applications 3rd day of a workshop or are you doing something else? If something else, I suggest you practice for another while before attempting qi projection and learn the medical qigong aspect of that "something else". If you are daily practicing Stillness-Movement and Gift of the Tao and have been doing so for a year there is no reason you should feel drained unless you project for several hours a day. If this is the case then email me and lets discuss. I don't recall you from a class but I cannot remember everyone. Your "6 times" try does not take into account oh so many other variables. There should be many months/years of effort to make any conclusions. I always suggest that taking a class and practicing daily for 3-6 months is the time to ease into qi projection, and not before. If a person is not adequately cultivating and utilizing the qi projection methods within a system I suggest to not attempt it at all - it CAN be very draining! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiverSnake Posted December 22, 2013 (edited) With assuming responsibility our own abilities increase. Hesitating at an open door may hinder growth.Been experiencing a bit of this lately. I can see now why Buddhists have devotional prayers in which they dedicate themselves and there practices to the benefit of all sentient beings. It helps avoid lots of traps, gives clarity in ones direction and is quite freeing on a variety of levels. Â My 2 cents, Peace Edited December 22, 2013 by OldChi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites