spiritual pursuit is escapism

[eye_of_the_storm]

Is the spiritual path escapism? not wanting to face this reality ... wanting to return back to the womb? or eternal womb?

 

all this talk of softness and nothingness etc? is everyone here in the fetal position sucking their thumb?

 

In ones short travels I guess I have come across a number of 'broken' folks hiding away seeking 'enlightenment' or whatever

 

damned if we do damned if we don't?

 

the meek (weak) shall inherit the earth?

 

the 10 commandments

 

coming from a Catholic background to be honest I didn't see much difference with say Buddhism

 

just a different skin perhaps

 

from what I can see for the most part all religions make people slaves + sinners more or less / very confused slaves haha

 

repent

 

Buddhists bows to golden statues

Muslims forehead to the ground

Christians to a bloody man nailed to cross

 

and so on

 

I think the Christian image - man nailed to a cross says it all

 

a fitting image i think for humanity in general // religions + corporations + governments = man nailed to a cross

 

like the inverted pentagram is actually Man inverted

 

Mans divinity beings stripped away ... hidden etc

 

Man being totally dis empowered

 

Yield MAN, yield to me forever

 

funny thing considering recent Queens UK 60th jubilee .... people celebrating? wtf - 'subjects' of her 'majesty' and they yell and cheer.... do people like being slaves?

Edited June 6, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Protector]

Wolfy, there is someone writing a huge article just for you explaining how backwards what you said is, so in expression of my ultimate laziness here's a word

 

 

This is the biggest hug you can give to anyone

[eye_of_the_storm]

Edited June 6, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[zerostao]

"Is the spiritual path escapism? not wanting to face this reality"

it is embracing reality not escaping it.

"the meek (weak) shall inherit the earth?"

the meek are not weak, this seems a common misconception

"religions"

not to be confused with spiritual

"Man being totally dis empowered "

talk to an immortal

[eye_of_the_storm]

"Is the spiritual path escapism? not wanting to face this reality"

it is embracing reality not escaping it.

"the meek (weak) shall inherit the earth?"

the meek are not weak, this seems a common misconception

"religions"

not to be confused with spiritual

"Man being totally dis empowered "

talk to an immortal

 

do you know of an immortal i can speak to? i would like to

 

why not the wise shall inherit the earth?

 

what is reality?

 

I dont think there are any answers so perhaps one shouldnt ask the questions

[Thunder_Gooch]

The reality is we are all going to die.

 

You can make peace with that, and live a good life.

 

You can refuse to think about it, and go to church and pretend it won't happen, and live in denial till your death.

 

You could also dedicate your life to trying to do something about it.

 

 

No matter what it is you do, as long as you are happy and try to be a good person I don't think it really matters what you do, or don't do.

[Fū Yue]

It's difficult to leave when you were never really here in the first place,

 

Most have no clue what it is that is happening right now, they think that their misinformed opinions of 'what is' - no doubt a recycled version of what their family, their friends, some pastor, some scientist says is true. They don't want to look past it, because they are afraid of the gap... They don't want to admit that maybe what they've always thought had meaning was really meaningless. So they let it get to them, and their minds are become full of hardened shells, the carcasses of imagination and whimsy struck down by their own depressions, impressions of wrong-doings ironically committed by them against themselves.

 

None of it is real, though. Whether it be violence against your own ego, or striking out against the universe that beget you, you are doing nothing but throwing stones at your own shadow. What is real is not in the past, because those are just stories now... Myth. What is real is not in the future, either, because it that just smoke and mirrors... Nothing more than a reflection of the past. Reading some thousand year old text will do nothing for you, it is not the spiritual path. Tradition is not the way. What is real right now, when you have not aged a day? The meek shall inherit the earth because they are wise enough to bend with the trees.

[thelerner]

It could be, but there are way worse kind of escapsism. Compare it to other escapsisms, TV, drugs, alcoholism, karaoke . Worse case scenario you could have equaled others and watched 4 hours of TV a day. Best case scenario, a quiet efficient mind, a strong healthy spirit, enlightenment??

 

Possible good seems to outweigh the bad. But balance is needed, it shouldn't be practice instead of life to keep you from what you're afraid of.

[eye_of_the_storm]

good point - thats what i was kind of figuring too

 

everything is escapism

 

so what isnt?

 

everything is desire

 

so what isnt?

 

those who say no desire = fail

[Thunder_Gooch]

If you have a dream, something you truly wish to accomplish before you die, and you work towards that with all your heart and effort, is that escapism? Even if you fail, you lived a meaningful life.

[Jetsun]

If you have a dream, something you truly wish to accomplish before you die, and you work towards that with all your heart and effort, is that escapism? Even if you fail, you lived a meaningful life.

 

Unless there was something you were here to do which you didn't get round to because you were too busy with your own dream

[eye_of_the_storm]

ok - i made a mistake

 

it would seem not everything is escapism

 

I had some trance music on sometime ago which i neglected / paused for a couple hours

 

after this^^^ i just pressed play and just felt like dancing

 

and it was fun to dance / move

 

therefore fun joy celebration in movement

 

'spontaneous arising'

 

everything is spontaneous arising which includes desires

 

why is one so compelled to move to the beat? to the rhythm etc?

 

it would seem the self is an obstruction to spontaneous arising aka the rhythm of life?

 

because self doesn't trust in the rhythm of life and fights it

 

no self self finds joy in getting out of the way or flowing with the river

 

i am going to change "no self"

 

to pure self

 

as opposed to

 

obstructed self

Edited June 6, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[eye_of_the_storm]

so pure self recognizes that everything is true and false = unlimited

Edited June 6, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[eye_of_the_storm]

Unless there was something you were here to do which you didn't get round to because you were too busy with your own dream

 

I think everything is where it needs to be as it is and as it will be

[eye_of_the_storm]

we think we should do this or we should do that or we should not be this or not be that... but what is it that thinks these things? where do these thing come from in the first place?

[Jetsun]

I think everything is where it needs to be as it is and as it will be

 

Perhaps it is, but as long as people believe otherwise there will be problems and imbalance at least in human relationships with each other and the planet.

 

Freud would agree that all spirituality is escapism and people like Chogyam Trungpa wrote books on it as it is a common occurance. At the moment my personal thinking is that real spiritual growth may have to involve suffering of some sort and willingly suffering or consciously suffering isn't escapism if it is the right sort of suffering, so it all depends on what sort of spiritual pursuits you are engaged in.

[Mokona]

I found that ignoring that which doesn't effect or work for you and moving on to be very effective. That includes religion and New-Age BS. Now I am enjoying the results of Chi Kung, becuase it is real; and so is my buddy Matt, who makes twice the progress I do. That SOB! J/k.

 

 

 

Is the spiritual path escapism? not wanting to face this reality ... wanting to return back to the womb? or eternal womb?

 

all this talk of softness and nothingness etc? is everyone here in the fetal position sucking their thumb?

 

In ones short travels I guess I have come across a number of 'broken' folks hiding away seeking 'enlightenment' or whatever

 

damned if we do damned if we don't?

 

the meek (weak) shall inherit the earth?

 

the 10 commandments

 

coming from a Catholic background to be honest I didn't see much difference with say Buddhism

 

just a different skin perhaps

 

from what I can see for the most part all religions make people slaves + sinners more or less / very confused slaves haha

 

repent

 

Buddhists bows to golden statues

Muslims forehead to the ground

Christians to a bloody man nailed to cross

 

and so on

 

I think the Christian image - man nailed to a cross says it all

 

a fitting image i think for humanity in general // religions + corporations + governments = man nailed to a cross

 

like the inverted pentagram is actually Man inverted

 

Mans divinity beings stripped away ... hidden etc

 

Man being totally dis empowered

 

Yield MAN, yield to me forever

 

funny thing considering recent Queens UK 60th jubilee .... people celebrating? wtf - 'subjects' of her 'majesty' and they yell and cheer.... do people like being slaves?

[eye_of_the_storm]

Perhaps it is, but as long as people believe otherwise there will be problems and imbalance at least in human relationships with each other and the planet.

 

Freud would agree that all spirituality is escapism and people like Chogyam Trungpa wrote books on it as it is a common occurance. At the moment my personal thinking is that real spiritual growth may have to involve suffering of some sort and willingly suffering or consciously suffering isn't escapism if it is the right sort of suffering, so it all depends on what sort of spiritual pursuits you are engaged in.

 

hmm - good point

 

see a lot of conflicting statements in my own ^ though I think this conflict will eventually lead somewhere haha this suffering though willed as i asked for the Truth and what ever that would take sooo ... just have to keep breaking it down I guess EDIT: see... why must one suffer for the truth? what is with that... maybe thats what it takes to wake us up // shake us up but from what? meh haha

 

is it super ego to think one can even reach enlightenment or even realize any kind of ultimate truth haha

 

to even pursue such things say ego EDIT: but fk ego I dont even care for this BS concept of what should and shouldnt be real or not real

 

uno I think enlightenment is more about peoples desire for power

 

the concept of enlightenment really is about power

and why shouldn't is be?

 

and i think power is about freedom

 

thats why I laugh at this meekness ... are people deluding themselves? or pretending? its all about power and the power to be free

 

as above stated something about being meek and bending trees... that is power that is not meekness

 

I think everyone is feeling guilty for wanting to be powerful... wanting to be divine... too sacred / edit scared LOL to realize their godliness ... oh little me... poor me etc etc what are we playing at?

 

EDIT: hah interesting "mistake" are we too scared to be sacred? whats in a word? scared or sacred?

 

as Alan Watts said "Come off it SHIVA!" who are you kidding?

Edited June 6, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[eye_of_the_storm]

I found that ignoring that which doesn't effect or work for you and moving on to be very effective. That includes religion and New-Age BS. Now I am enjoying the results of Chi Kung, becuase it is real; and so is my buddy Matt, who makes twice the progress I do. That SOB! J/k.

 

[Fū Yue]

uno I think enlightenment is more about peoples desire for power

 

the concept of enlightenment really is about power

and why shouldn't is be?

 

and i think power is about freedom

 

thats why I laugh at this meekness ... are people deluding themselves? or pretending? its all about power and the power to be free

 

I disagree...

 

I think, really, people want to be free from power. People don't want force, they want ease. They want softness, they want light. They don't want to fight any more, they don't want to struggle; and it makes sense, too. If you're constantly chafing against bondage, of course you will never be free - you aren't giving yourself room to breathe!

 

Trying to wrench the secrets of life, from life, with weapons or tools... it wont work, right? You just think yourself in circles with the sixth sense, you try to trace all the conflicting opinions back to the source and you don't find anything, you just become more confused. You look into the mirror with the sight and all you see is a fiery reflection. You can only taste hues, you can only hear the variant twang of one sound.

 

You already said it, this "spontaneous arising" only occurs when effort is abandoned. When you give up contrived power and yield to the flow of the silent being, then you become the river of life itself. You can't own freedom! It defies all attempts to seize, to reach or to 'have power over', by virtue of it being you.

 

It is not complicated. It's the simplest thing in the world, that's why so few people attain it. They see the truth everywhere, completely naked... and they're dumbstruck, they think, "That can't possibly be all there is, there's got to be something else"

 

Gods are just puppets of the buddha-nature. Freedom is being them, not the other way around. It is being you, too. It is everywhere, it is being everything. No reason, why not? That's all there is to it.

[michael245]

I'm quite surprised on how far christianity spread,it's insane that colored people would want to worship a white skinned god man,lol.So,I can understand where China is coming from when they regulate on christianity in China. Personally I think the gnostic and mormonism scriptures are phonie just like the islamic jesus version.

[eye_of_the_storm]

I'm quite surprised on how far christianity spread,it's insane that colored people would want to worship a white skinned god man,lol.So,I can understand where China is coming from when they regulate on christianity in China. Personally I think the gnostic and mormonism scriptures are phonie just like the islamic jesus version.

 

Well Christianity is not a white mans religion... Christianity came out of the middle east a branch off the Jewish tradition.

 

The European 'white' people followed similar shamanic traditions 40'000+ years old as what would now be considered 'native' cultures

 

though the white man is no longer native to anywhere, no roots, no culture, no ancestors etc

 

truth be told the white mans culture has been completely wiped off the face of the earth

 

a number of folks here have even tried to look back to the ways of their ancestors finding only fragments ... everything burned + under the threat of death some converted... some fought to the death

 

what ever came out of the middle east was intent upon destroying all true knowledge / parasitic thing that it is... ate away the soul of the white man and replaced it with Christianity + a large portion of the globe

 

other cultures talk about genocide etc...the white culture was destroyed so long ago now its completely forgotten

 

I think the only reason the white man believes this stuff is because everything else has been stripped away

 

though the seems to be a pagan/ shamanic revival happening you can't suppress whats in the blood for too long... or an attempt of sorts

 

I think the Chinese have made a good decision in regards to that

[eye_of_the_storm]

I disagree...

 

I think, really, people want to be free from power. People don't want force, they want ease. They want softness, they want light. They don't want to fight any more, they don't want to struggle; and it makes sense, too. If you're constantly chafing against bondage, of course you will never be free - you aren't giving yourself room to breathe!

 

Trying to wrench the secrets of life, from life, with weapons or tools... it wont work, right? You just think yourself in circles with the sixth sense, you try to trace all the conflicting opinions back to the source and you don't find anything, you just become more confused. You look into the mirror with the sight and all you see is a fiery reflection. You can only taste hues, you can only hear the variant twang of one sound.

 

You already said it, this "spontaneous arising" only occurs when effort is abandoned. When you give up contrived power and yield to the flow of the silent being, then you become the river of life itself. You can't own freedom! It defies all attempts to seize, to reach or to 'have power over', by virtue of it being you.

 

It is not complicated. It's the simplest thing in the world, that's why so few people attain it. They see the truth everywhere, completely naked... and they're dumbstruck, they think, "That can't possibly be all there is, there's got to be something else"

 

Gods are just puppets of the buddha-nature. Freedom is being them, not the other way around. It is being you, too. It is everywhere, it is being everything. No reason, why not? That's all there is to it.

People don't want force, they want ease. They want softness, they want light

 

ease comes with power ... how ever you define power... you missed my last sentence...about the 'meek' bending trees... and myself considering that as power

 

if i practice one pointed concentration that is power growing in concentration = concentrated awareness = bending 'reality' mind over matter = power and after awhile effort becomes no effort... force becomes ease... concentration becomes 'softness' ... as light is soft? but it can also burn like a laser or fire... water is soft but its power is in it flexibility and persistence etc ... ive seen water cut through steel

 

the rest, all good points

Edited June 7, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Fū Yue]

People don't want force, they want ease. They want softness, they want light

 

ease comes with power ... how ever you define power... you missed my last sentence...about the 'meek' bending trees... and myself considering that as power

 

if i practice one pointed concentration that is power growing in concentration = concentrated awareness = bending 'reality' mind over matter = power and after awhile effort becomes no effort... force becomes ease... concentration becomes 'softness' ... as light is soft? but it can also burn like a laser or fire... water is soft but its power is in it flexibility and persistence etc ... ive seen water cut through steel

 

the rest, all good points

 

Well, the thing about your last sentence is that it was a misquote of me. That was my post, 'something about meekness and bending trees'.

 

I originally said "because they are wise enough to bend with the trees". You were born soft and malleable. Your mind is still soft and malleable at it's core.

 

If you practice one pointed concentration that is paying attention, yielding, bowing yourself to accommodate awareness. That awareness takes the forefront, you get out of the way. Eventually there is just that awareness. Just as through meditating on the elements you take on their characteristics, or seeing bitterness and hate in the world you take on that despair. Everything that appears difficult is secretly easy, everything that appears hard is secretly soft.

 

I suppose I just can't understand why people want to take the long way around, when they can just cultivate spontaneity right now and be free or 'powerful'. The n/om doesn't come to those that don't know how to let go, whether it be letting go of power or practices. It's all a dance, all music already. All you have to do is tune in, listen to the sweet sound of silence and let it move you.

[Lucky7Strikes]

I suppose I just can't understand why people want to take the long way around, when they can just cultivate spontaneity right now and be free or 'powerful'. The n/om doesn't come to those that don't know how to let go, whether it be letting go of power or practices. It's all a dance, all music already. All you have to do is tune in, listen to the sweet sound of silence and let it move you.

There are conditions that bind you beyond your mere decision to "let go." Letting go is a practice and shouldn't be mistaken for a state to rest in. You have layers of conditioning including the physical body itself that are at the mercy of death and old age. Merely "flowing" with the winds will get you somewhere but it will leave the practitioner often complacent, or their practice of surrender will become compromised. They will accept life merely for what it is without pondering into deeper layers of their identities.

 

It is very difficult to let go and let that force unbind you deeper conditions. People of these traditions don't just sit in caves all day for nothing. They are unbinding each karmic root within them. They say "do nothing and rest in the natural states." But this is difficult. If you think it's easy you haven't faced your attachments to phenomena fully for what they are.

 

All is music and dance...ok, it's all good until your personal demons and fears are encountered. Suddenly you don't "let go" but cower in safety of habits believing it is a let go. Or maybe a sudden tragedy strikes. Or you are at your death bed not knowing who you are or what will greet you beyond the body. At that point you just have faith and accept your conditions for what it is.

 

Spirituality is escapism. No doubt about it. It's escaping from your own ignorance and the pain of cyclical existence and life and death. People who look down on this are merely speaking from their own attachments to this society.