Seeking Help: Qi-gong Zhan Zhuang

[Ryan McCoole]

I am in need of some guidance. My name is Ryan McCoole, I'm 20 years

old and have been practicing Chi-Kung for over two years now in

Michigan, specifically the Zhan Zhuang style ("holding thr balloon" or "standing like a tree".)

 

Anyways, the training has me, and it won't let me go, no matter what I do.

Every morning after practice I walk away sometimes sore, refreshed, and

completely energized. I can feel the refined Jing vibrate in my Dan

Tien, interacting with the rest of my body and the environment around

me.

 

But at times I fall. Being a college student there are countless

pressures for me to loose my Jing, mostly psychological and mental. So, ever since I began practicing,

I have limited myself, and tried to harness my sexuality continuously

everyday by using breathing techniques to harness the Jing in the Dan Tien.

 

But here's where I am having difficulty: I feel I have what some refer

to as the WILL to go all the way, and I greatly admire the practitioners here who have taken steps to enlighten other people

interested. I can go all the way, but sometimes *I don't feel I know

exactly where I'm going to*. Basically, I feel I am harnessing my

Jing, but struggle with how I can 'activate' the internal vibrations

that you talk about (I believe it is similar to opening a chakra by

flooding it with positive yang (refined Jing) energy. I think this

would be a wonderful experience, but I am alittle lost on what I can

do in my practice to get there, things I can do everyday to overcome

my cravings to loose my Jing and harness my sexuality at the same

time.

 

Here are a few questions I wanted to throw at us Tao bums

 

1.) I feel blessed to have discovered Chi-Kung, but my life

currently is a struggle between old desires and new spiritual

development. What techniques to you use everyday to overcome the

'urge' to loose your Jing? I struggle and fall many times, and after each time I reprimand myself

for just committing 'energy suicide'! I know the adverse affects, yet

sometimes I still let my focus slip into my lower energy centers and

loose the Dan Tien. What do you do, personally, to overcome this if

you choose to be celibate? This is my greatest enemy, the one

struggle my will deals with everyday.

 

2.) Is it possible (least of all healthy) to practice the day after

an ejaculation? I know you loose five days after and four before (the sources vary), so

I usually wait three days every time I 'give in' before

practicing…like I said the training has me, and it wont let me go!

 

Another note: Since I began practice I have learned so much about mysef and how my body, mind and spirit operate I am grateful for the oppertunity to practice qi-gong in general and hope to take it as far as I can.

Edited November 20, 2006 by Ryan McCoole

[Spectrum]

First off lighten up on yourself a bit, we're all human and you sound like a normal guy. There are beautiful women everywhere, and remember it's the light on the inside that shines, the outside will dwindle, the inside will shine through line fine wine w/ age. Look for that glimmer in the eyes.

 

Second off. Who taught or is teaching you? (I don't care really, but ask your teacher for advice no?)

 

For some reason this comes to mind:

 

Aikido has a wonderful saying in the book "The Dynamic Sphere" : "Vertical posture is the height of ones aspirations, horzonal posture is the source of their life... "

 

So what to do w/ the extra charge?

 

Depending on how often your standing, standing practice should be tempered w/ movement. At 20, it's no doubt that standing will produce a serious charge that will naturally flow to the path of least resistance.

 

No quite honestly that extra charge can be channeled into relationships seamlessly. But if a relationship doesn't exist and it's just a frustrating bother? I would recommend a regular workout regime that involves a variety of movements, cardio, etc, OR a martial art of the internal variety. Either way what you looking to do is give yourself a natural outlet and growth opportunity for the energy you are collecting and refining through pile standing. Finding a concrete method of 'burning off' through physical exercise or 'circulating' through a practice such as Tai Chi or various other internal arts is your best bet of discovering the next level of practice within yourself and discovering deeper levels of discipline to maintain your practice. As you've said the practice has gripped your consciousness and you don't feel like you can stop, that's a good indication that it is time to expand your boundaries and seek this next level your looking for.

 

I would not recommend standing meditation w/ no other practices simply because of the charge built up and the possibiity for psycological amplifications and imbalances. It's ok for health reasons, but if your healthy already I would say get a heavy bag and start practicing "discharging" (there is a reason this is called DIScharging) or find a gym w/ some cardio activities, grappling, gymnastics, ANYTHING.... Again, finding meditation practice partners, a Tai Chi group, Moving Chi Gung, etc etc might be another natural tangent for you at this juncture.

 

Also any repetitive conscious activity will give yourself a practical energetic 'wedge' between behaviors non-condusive to your psycho-physical-spiritual well being and behaviors that are! Of coarse limiting exposure to "stimulating" media is also an option if your feeling "overstimulated". Of coarse Taoists strive to release their attachments to such things, so the 'urge' has it's associations, but is also an engine and motivation for a spectrum of energetic to physical activitivities, arts, practices and disciplines. Again what comes to mind is Tai Chi or a Martial Art w/ true fighting Merit.

 

Rest knowing it's far better to have excess and not know what to do w/ it then not have any and be scratching your head at what all this 'vibration' talk is about. Your way ahead of the game. Some folks wait until their life friskiness isn't there before they undertake the work of the gung, some people never realize anything and walk about in the dark concerning the sources of their own meditations in life. You don't sound like that at all.

 

Regards to your quest for the Tao - and welcome to the forum:

 

Spectrum

[Owl]

Ryan,

 

Over the years, as a community, we have seen a fair share of young men who face the same dilemma as you do now. Trunk, one of our most experienced and wise practitioners, has written some very pertinent essays to address the very questions that you have posed. I believe you can find much guidance in his writings.

 

I must warn you of the dangers of forcibly holding back hot yang energy in your body when it is perfectly necessary and healthy to let it go. Many have been burnt (literally) by this misguided practice. Please be extra careful and critical of what you've learned so far.

 

You might want to re-read the Dao De Jing. Water doesn't struggle.

[Todd]

Ryan,

 

Here's a link to the opening pages of a book that describe a couple've practices that might be right up your alley. I haven't done the first one much, though if I were intensely trying to be celibate I would. I have been doing the massage practice after standing and I have noticed a very significant difference in the length of time I can go without feeling presure to ejaculate. It also has cosmetic benefits for the skin around the eyes, though you're probably not worried about that right now.

 

Also I second Owl's comments about forcing the issue, though to each their own.

 

 

Todd

[hagar]

Ryan.

 

One deep misunderstanding about practice is that you are an energy "container". If you relax and let go if this view of practice, the tensions regarding sexuality falls away. The subtle nuances relating to "losing" energy is a matter of decades of study. We are much more like conductors than containers. If you are doint the standing exercises, like holding the ball, you may experience that only after "standing back" and watching the chi manifest can you truly practice qigong. THis is approaching what all qigong is aiming at on a basic level: entering the Qigong State. Try to aim for that. This experience is the starting of true qigong, and where all future aspirations with practice should start. Many questions relating to life and practice will either become clear or fall away while in this state.

 

Sex is a matter of very little importance in true practice. If you give yourself a hard time with "failing" because you give in, or if you blame yourself for not being able to be strong enough to "resist" urges and so on, the problem is not to find ways to harness your Jing, but to hold on to a view of reality that is not fruitful to you.

I have been there for sooo many years myself, that I can truly understand where you are coming from.

Sex is natural, but how we experience arousal, or what we choose to focus on, or further how we interpret our feelings are the core of the problem. There is not much energy loss to worry about in a sound, healty relationship with a partner, where sex is an expression of sharing and openness.

If you read the Thomas Cleary anthology; "Energy Vitality, Spirit" the Daoist Immortal Chang Po Tuan points the finger at what is the true cause of our suffering and energyloss: The emotions. Learn to understand, accept and transform your emotions, and the root of the problems fall away.

 

Energy wise, we are all like waning comets. We lose energy all the time, because our Shen, or spirit is not contained in our bodies, but are out, or leaking out by our misuse of mind or emotions. We leak our Shen, and this is 100 000 times more important to work with than Jing. Jing is by far the least potent energy in the system. Meditate, and be mindful, and things like sex or other life issues will resolve themselves.

 

As to practicing after ejaculation, I hold the view that you may practice as much as you want nomatter how much you ejaculate. The only thing to keep in mind is that there is a time for transformation, and there is a time for "watering the plant". After sex, I tend to do the latter. Find restful, rejuvenating practices that will help you recover much faster. I tend to do a sitting meditation called the sitting Deer. It restores my energy after sex after about 2 hours of sitting.

 

H

[Ryan McCoole]

First off I would like to thank Spectrum, Owl, Todd, and Hagar for their advice, guidance and critiques. Haha, yes I definitely seem way to hard on myself (and I am at times), but I wanted to get everything into the first post. It is ironic: I read about truly letting go and flowing with the Tao, yet every now and then I desperately hold onto some form or idea with dear life thinking I’m doing myself a great service, when this couldn’t be further from the truth.

 

Spectrum, you are right, I found that Qi-gong has a wonderful compliment in cardio vascular work, Tai Chi, or some form of balanced movement. I myself practice shadowboxing 2-3 times every week, and find that the energy generated through Qi-gong actually helps my movement, balance and positioning, as well as my perception of reality (I even find at times while shadowboxing that I can expand my awareness to outside the room, to the trees outside, and however far I allow myself to relax in the Tao.) Indeed, I have always felt better having more of a “charge” and not knowing how to harness it then being energetically depleted, and it has only been in the past few months that I’ve truly allowed myself to breathe and BE in the Tao.

 

Owl, sometimes one needs to be reminded of the basics: Balance is the foundation of everything. I re-read the entire Dao De Jing (via your suggestion) and was reminded yet again of how important Wu wei is, the concept and practice of “not forcing”. Its not just living in an aimless state of ignorance waiting for things to happen top you, but rather a supreme “letting go” of your ego, concept of polarity (good v. bad) and an enforcement of Harmony and Oneness. I also read Trunks links, and they shed an illuminating light on classic studies.

 

Todd, I read the first few pages of the book, and will finish the other few pages in the next few days. Indeed, I re-read my post and saw how utterly desperate it seemed! I wouldn’t be surprised if you imagined a young man sitting pensively in full lotus waiting for the Tao to bestow him with unutterable joys and enlightenment. Water flows wherever it is, and it last because it has nothing to hold onto or to slow it down. For me, these barriers were are the artificial constructs of polarity, ego, and doubt.

 

Hagar, I agree completely (although I forgot it): How can a thing as powerful and wonderful as Qi be contained? It’s honestly like trying to squeeze the sun in a fluorescent bulb! Not that we can’t refine our vessels in our own bodies, but we refine them to help the FLOW of Qi, not squeeze it up until we can’t hold anymore and call it enlightenment.

 

It was also great to meet someone who has walked the same path I am on right now, and knows the difficulties of such an undertaking. Yet, in reality, there are no difficulties are there? The only difficulty is in getting our perceptions of events and experiences to unclench itself from our constricted Shen, so that we may simply Be, pure and simple.

 

Thomas Cleary’s “Energy, Vitality and Spirit” is one of my favourite anthologies on classical Taoist thought, because it synthesizes both the historical and practical aspects of Taoism, in prose that really penetrates your psyche when you really listen. I revisited the passage you cited, and realized that not only do misguided emotions lie at the root of all disharmony, but that even if we hold onto our emotions or take them at face value, we are already entering a static or “non-water-like” state! Thank you also for your guidance on post-ejaculation practice, as it illuminated what was a gray area for me.

 

All in all, I am very glad that I stumbled upon the Tao bums, and I regret to inform you that I’ll be here for quite a while Your speedy responses prompted me to return the favor, and I hope to be there for others and share whatever experiences I have that may help them on their path of the Tao. *bows*

 

 

-Ryan McCoole-

 

“We shape clay into a pot,

but it is the emptiness inside

that holds whatever we want.”

 

-Dao De Jing, chapter eleven

Edited November 20, 2006 by Ryan McCoole

[Trunk]

Ryan,

 

Welcome!

In addition to the already good advice given..

 

A couple of very unusual and very worth-while dvd products that you should consider buying at some point (or maybe suggest someone give them to you as Christmas presents ):

- Kurz's Secrets of Stretching

- Sonnon's Intuflow

You can use TTB's search feature to read previous discussions we've had on these products. They'll go a fair way toward opening up your physical structure properly to integrate the forces you're accessing, and as a result can save you from much trouble.

 

(I know it's already been mentioned, ...) Tinker through AlchemicalTaoism.com, take your time. It's a community project, a compilation of many of the 'greatest hits' from discussion threads over the years. Every few months look in the "updates" section to see what's new.

 

Hang out here, and read through the archives. Many good posts spoken from (often decades of) experience, with a variety of voices to cover the angles.

 

Trunk

[Yoda]

Ryan,

 

Welcome to tao bums! Another great thread!!

 

The jing as the least potent system... Cool angle.

 

-Yoda

[Wayfarer64]

I agree that "forcing the issue" is not a wholesome way to get anywhere that can be seen or experienced as helpful/healthful...The way is your own way, not a contrived manifestation of learned practices. Be yourself as a genuine being of spirit having a human experience and make the best of what becomes yours.

 

That being said - I believe that simple and pure hatha yoga is the easiest way to become aware of your breath and how to coordinate your movements with your breathing. It is extremely easy on the uninitiated's system and can be developed to very intense degrees after some years of practice. I have found it a great help to me that it was my first introduction to mind/body synchronization. It's origin is arguably more of Indian than Chinese derivation-but who knows if that is so or if any of that matters?

 

In any case Hatha Yoga is a practical start as well- there are many compitant teachers available and the initial stretches, meditation and breathing exercises are easy to learn from video. In the long ago early seventies I taught simple Hatha yoga to other high-school students - and a few teachers too -where I was at school in England. So I know it is not very difficult to get started. I still do many of the stretches and breathing techniques daily, as a way to start the day off right!

[Ian]

..... the true cause of our suffering and energyloss: The emotions. Learn to understand, accept and transform your emotions, and the root of the problems fall away.

 

Energy wise, we are all like waning comets. We lose energy all the time, because our Shen, or spirit is not contained in our bodies, but are out, or leaking out by our misuse of mind or emotions. We leak our Shen, and this is 100 000 times more important to work with than Jing. Jing is by far the least potent energy in the system. Meditate, and be mindful, and things like sex or other life issues will resolve themselves.

 

Wonderful, thank you. Nice to be reminded.

 

If people don't mind me going sideways, two quick thoughts about tailbone, which you asked about a while back.

 

1- It often seems to me that good posture for opening the front of the hips has the side effect of closing the back of them because it's a little overdone. And pushing the back of the heels of the feet out sideways a little tiny bit can help.

 

2 - I've had it suggested that if you can't get into an area, just run the attention repeatedly over the space just beyond it, i.e. above the skin.

 

Regards to Lukas, enjoy the season of glug.

I

[hagar]

Wonderful, thank you. Nice to be reminded.

 

If people don't mind me going sideways, two quick thoughts about tailbone, which you asked about a while back.

 

1- It often seems to me that good posture for opening the front of the hips has the side effect of closing the back of them because it's a little overdone. And pushing the back of the heels of the feet out sideways a little tiny bit can help.

 

2 - I've had it suggested that if you can't get into an area, just run the attention repeatedly over the space just beyond it, i.e. above the skin.

 

Regards to Lukas, enjoy the season of glug.

I

 

Cheers Ian

 

Wonderful analogy about stopping mind in the other post btw.

 

As you said, I do have the experience of closing at the tailbone when opening the front. Good idea to work more with the foot stance. I did try to emphasize this before, but felt the alignment at the lower back became off. But that is probably due to bad posture and old spine injuries.

 

As to moving the attention above the skin, please feel free to elaborate.

 

Lukas is the boss of the household, and will definately be so in the future too. Cheers

[GrandTrinity]

I was in this spot just like you a couple years ago. Do not force yourself to reatian jing. We are very young. If you let it go out, dont be mad at yourself. Many many many wise teachers say that people our say can and should emit one every few days. If you can healtfly go a a couple weeks or more? thats great, more power to you - I have done that. At the same time, be aware not to feel bad and to know that yes, after age 65 it is reasonable never to emit. For now? Keep the virtue high and do what feels right, make a balance between emission and retention. Dont kick yourself for emitting bro. Also, not need to be celibate if you dont wnat to. What do you study in college? I dropped out and studied qi gong full time, now Im working to get credit for all that research I did, and it looks like I just may very well get 45 cedits and graduate next semester.

[Ryan McCoole]

Yeah, everyone's advice had really shed some new light on what i thought was an exhausted topic...I feel more ready than ever to just "let go" and ride with the Tao.

 

I am going to graduate with a degree in journalism and arabic as a minor, hopefully working for radio news or production (although being a qi-gong instructor woudl be amazing).

 

Jing or no jing, the real truth is found in your ability to let go and be like water with the Tao.

 

 

-Ryan McCoole=