Qi-Gong Starting Point?

[Ian]

 

Ian, when you do your standing practice, or whatever method you use to embody yourself, do you get any mental noise?

 

Loads, yes. My goal is to "take no active part in thinking", to be something else, the presence, the sensation, rather than to try and stop the noise.

 

Now just typing 'I want to be liked' makes me giggle, it seems so silly.

 

If you really reckon that this technique has resolved for you, once and for all, all isues about being liked or popular, then I'm truly impressed and will give it a go. Does it work in terms of the opposite sex? Do you really have no concerns about whether a pretty girl likes you or not?

 

When you are dismantling thought, where are you doing it from? What do you use? Can you break it down to baby steps or is it something you have to "get". Have you tried to teach it to people?

 

Barrage of questions. Better get back to work

[freeform]

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Edited December 18, 2019 by freeform

[QiDr]

Jordan,

If you want to begin Qi Gong practice, the begining is the Small Cosmic Orbit (also sometimes called the Minor Celestial Orbit). It is THE starting place of qi practices and I suggest you practice it daily for six months before you think about moving on.

[Jordan]

Jordan,

If you want to begin Qi Gong practice, the begining is the Small Cosmic Orbit (also sometimes called the Minor Celestial Orbit). It is THE starting place of qi practices and I suggest you practice it daily for six months before you think about moving on.

 

How do I find out how to do it? Can you give me a description? A google search came up with nothing.

[spyrelx]

How do I find out how to do it? Can you give me a description? A google search came up with nothing.

 

 

Jordan,

 

He's talking about the microcosmic orbit and I for one disagree with him. You can play around with it, but many would argue it's an advanced practice and not worth getting into until you are well along the path (personally, I fall somwhere in the middle).

 

In any event, I would agree with the advice you got in the first few posts and suggest you start there.

 

The Art of Chi Kung is a great book and, I think, a perfect introduction into Chi Kung, with simple practices that work and could keep you happy for years (it also discusses the microcosmic orbit). I've been around the block a number of times with Chi Kung and I'm currently using these practices. (See my discussion of Sifu Wong elsewhere on this board -- he's got a website and may have a teacher in your area. All you would need is one class to start you off).

 

The Way of Energy is largely about standing meditation. I also reccomend it but it's really not chi kung so much as meditating in a standing posture (one could have arguments about what the difference is but let's just say for now that one involves movement ond one doesn't). It's a nice compliment to a moving practice however.

 

If you're strapped for cash, look up the Art of Chi Kung in a book store. The first or second chapter has an exercise at the back called "lifting the sky". It will take you about 2 minutes to read. You could do that exercise for the next three months and be a much better person for it.

 

Good luck.

[hagar]

Spyrelx:

 

Do you define Qigong as based on movement per se?

That would probably mean that almost 80 % of my qigong practice is meditation. "The Way of Energy" is a book about qigong, not about meditation. Qigong is for most practitioners something that includes meditation. Meditating could be both standing and sitting, but holding the ball vs moving the ball is not meditation vs qigong. The word Qigong means literally energy-work, or more spesifically energy work accumulated over time. (Gong is the accumulated effort of whatever field you aspire to excell in) Now, meditation is a part of this definition, as energy accumulation and work is a part of meditation.

 

How to you define meditation?

 

h

[spyrelx]

Spyrelx:

 

Do you define Qigong as based on movement per se?

That would probably mean that almost 80 % of my qigong practice is meditation. "The Way of Energy" is a book about qigong, not about meditation. Qigong is for most practitioners something that includes meditation. Meditating could be both standing and sitting, but holding the ball vs moving the ball is not meditation vs qigong. The word Qigong means literally energy-work, or more spesifically energy work accumulated over time. (Gong is the accumulated effort of whatever field you aspire to excell in) Now, meditation is a part of this definition, as energy accumulation and work is a part of meditation.

 

How to you define meditation?

 

h

 

Hey Hagar,

 

I knew I was going to get into trouble with that. I agree with most everything you said. It's just that I was trying to answer the question of someone who just wanted to get started in chi gung.

 

In general, when people talk about chi gung, they are talking about some sort of moving form, and that's what I was addressing. Standing meditation isn't really a moving form, even though there are different positions (though the Way of Energy book also includes isntructions on a moving form -- 8 pieces of brocade).

 

Personally, I would consider sitting in lotus and running the orbit to be nie gung rather than chi gung, and standing meditation somewhere in the middle, but they all utilize the same principles and are meant to achieve many of the same things, so classifying them like that isn't really accurate.

 

I think terms like meditation, chi gung and nei gung mean different things to different people. For me, "chi gung" generally involves movement, and "nei gung" doesn't. It is, perhaps, an arbitrary classification, but it works for me.

 

"Meditation" is like "Art". I usually know it when I see it, but wouldn't dare define it.

 

spyrelx

[uroburro]

A couple more suggestions:

 

Awaken Healing Energy through the Tao by Mantak Chia

Ken Cohen's Qigong video, in addition to his book, the Way of Qigong.

 

Don't forget to search your library, it's the least expensive way to start out. It's likely that your local library is linked up into a wider network, so that if they don't have the book/video/CD/DVD you want, they can get it. A live teacher is by far the best, but a video, in combination with a book, can be a good way to get your feet wet.

 

Best of Luck

 

Michael

[hagar]

Hey Hagar,

 

I knew I was going to get into trouble with that. I agree with most everything you said. It's just that I was trying to answer the question of someone who just wanted to get started in chi gung.

 

In general, when people talk about chi gung, they are talking about some sort of moving form, and that's what I was addressing. Standing meditation isn't really a moving form, even though there are different positions (though the Way of Energy book also includes isntructions on a moving form -- 8 pieces of brocade).

 

Personally, I would consider sitting in lotus and running the orbit to be nie gung rather than chi gung, and standing meditation somewhere in the middle, but they all utilize the same principles and are meant to achieve many of the same things, so classifying them like that isn't really accurate.

 

I think terms like meditation, chi gung and nei gung mean different things to different people. For me, "chi gung" generally involves movement, and "nei gung" doesn't. It is, perhaps, an arbitrary classification, but it works for me.

 

"Meditation" is like "Art". I usually know it when I see it, but wouldn't dare define it.

 

spyrelx

 

If I may, this topic is not only of scholarly interest. It reveals some gateways into understanding what energywork and meditation really is. I agree that the demarcation of "qigong" ,as being based on movement is ad-hoc, but you touch on an important point that I am trying to understand in my own practice: The question of form vs spontaneity or formal practice vs "true" practice. In my experience, moving forms work very well at pushing your system into creating new habits and lift the energy body onto a new level. But they soon become the "end" instead of just being a manifestation of the cosmic energy. Its easy to forget that even a formal system of movement like the 5 animals, of the 8 piece Brocade, of even Tai Chi, once emerged spontaneously, due to one of several individuals tuning into the cosmic energy and letting it play itself out in form. And thus, it is important not to over-emphasize the importance of form, either static or moving. Sooner or later the cosmic chi will shift, and the forms will become only empty shells where the transmission of energy once showed itself.

So if we say that Qigong is mainly moving form, then what moves the form?

If standing in a position is meditation, then what is the real difference btw holding still and moving just a little bit?

 

My point is this: Is there really any qigong going on, or are we looking for something in qigong that is not there? Tuning into the cosmig qi has taught me how much of my own intentions and agendas I bring into it. Only now and then am I really able to tune in and reach the qigong-STATE. Then I sadly realize that I have wasted years of my life doing what I thought was qigong. I might as well have been playing soccer.

 

Sorry for the digression...

 

h

[Ryan McCoole]

Hagar,

 

I couldn't agree more. I also have the Way of Energy book practicing Zhan Zhuang qi-gong and the same moving forms as discussed. What I found was that positions and postures, whether standing or moving or sitting, shift with the cosmic qi as they will...it is our job not to force anything, but rather step back and let the qi guide itself through and around us, penetrating to our core and joining us with the eternal movement in the universe.

 

I wouldn't say that you time spent in the "wrong" frame of mind is a total waste though...everything is a test of greater Shen and spirit, as in the Dao De Jing, flowing water never grows stale.

[Spectrum]

Temper stillness with Movement.

 

Temper movement with Stillness.

 

Form and Emptiness balance.

 

Wu Ji (emptiness) is the connective structure holding together TaiJiQuan.

 

To focus on intent at the price of form is externaly meaningless.

 

To focus on form at the price of intent is internally meaningless.

 

True martial / healing art is neither internal nor external. There are arts which simply lead one to focus on natural attributes which make up only parts of the human whole.

 

The sum of the Whole... is greater than the parts.

 

Practice makes perfect.

 

Spectrum

 

PS- for some insight as to how much "form" matters, you should study the martial applications of any form. Also some simple practice at things like throwing & catching, golf, baseball, will amplify the importance of "form" in the "transmission of energy" which so many people love to make a mystical experience, but which in reality is the most natural normal thing in the universe for a human being. We should enjoy being One for as long as we can. Many movement arts are revealers of mysteries. Don't forget the power of a left jab.

 

PPS - From my perspective Chi Gung (Wai Dan) is moving except for using sound, which is simply movement on a smaller scale. Nei Dan is stillness (pile standing / whateva yawannacallit). There is a balance between and one leads to the other.

 

In the Taoist Arts when your doing moving chi gung there is stillness in the movement, which means externally you are moving, internally you are still. Again, when your being still, there is movement is your stillness, which means externally it looks as if you are being still, internally you are moving. Thus the Taoist saying "Stillness in Movement; Movement in Stillness."

 

Best Regards to your training,

 

Spectrum

Edited December 2, 2006 by Spectrum

[Spectrum]

"and go down into the earth"

 

Choose your ground carefully.

Edited December 2, 2006 by Spectrum