Commonality among all Spirituality

[Immortal4life]

You sometimes will see that there are people these days who always like to portray the past religions and past spiritual traditions in a negative light. They like to blame the stumbling blocks, limitations, and mistakes in human history on Spirituality and Religion. However, in reality humanity is simply growing and progressing over time. Ultimately, building on the foundations of the past, progress is always made, and greater and greater understandings towards a higher spiritual ideal are ultimately realized.

 

3 major paradigm shifts in Human History-

http://childrenofthe...lisone-paradigm

 

Glossary of terms for the new millennium and future paradigms-

http://thegreatwhite...org/Amenti.html

Edited January 13, 2013 by Immortal4life

[konchog uma]

i totally agree, although i am short on time and didn't read those links

 

i appreciate your brevity too

[ralis]

You sometimes will see that there are people these days who always like to portray the past religions and past spiritual traditions in a negative light. They like to blame the stumbling blocks, limitations, and mistakes in human history on Spirituality and Religion. However, in reality humanity is simply growing and progressing over time. Ultimately, building on the foundations of the past, progress is always made, and greater and greater understandings towards a higher spiritual ideal are ultimately realized.

 

3 major paradigm shifts in Human History-

http://childrenofthelawofone.org/cotloo/content/allisone-paradigm

 

Glossary of terms for the new millennium and future paradigms-

http://thegreatwhitelodge.org/Amenti.html

 

What you are talking about is not spiritual evolution. There is no evolution in the labyrinth which is a prison. Humans fail to recognize the very nature of the confines of the cage and therefor very few escape or see beyond the boundaries of their confinement. The only greater understanding is one of better familiarity with the cage!

 

The 'Great White Brotherhood' has obvious overtones of white supremacy.

[Immortal4life]

What you are talking about is not spiritual evolution. There is no evolution in the labyrinth which is a prison. Humans fail to recognize the very nature of the confines of the cage and therefor very few escape or see beyond the boundaries of their confinement. The only greater understanding is one of better familiarity with the cage!

 

What a bleak view of the universe and existence.

 

Of course there is constant spiritual evolution. All evolution is ultimately towards higher and higher understanding, experience, and existence. All vibration, everything that exists, eternally rises upwards, higher and higher, gradually, to higher expressions, throughout eternity.

 

Not only does every being and every human develop over every lifetime, humanity as a whole, interconnected as one, develop and spiritually evolve, over time throughout the ages in history.

 

Life and existence is not a cage! It is a creation, given birth to by each being experiencing it. The only limitation is in the mind, the mind is what traps itself, and creates illusions. This however does not mean it is useless, it is just backwards. It's just prone to ignorance. How is this corrected? Through higher understanding and higher evolution. Knowledge and Enlightenment is a vital component to evolution and ultimately extremely powerful when correctly applied.

 

The 'Great White Brotherhood' has obvious overtones of white supremacy.

 

LOL! Did you even look at the website? It seems obvious and clear that website using the title "Great White Brotherhood" is using the term white to mean Goodness, Light, Spiritual, etc. as opposed to what some people call "The Great Dark Brotherhood" or what some also call the "Illuminati" or "New World Order", meaning Evil, Dark, Selfish, etc. Kind like how a Jedi is a warrior of light and a Sith is of the Dark side.

 

It is not a KKK website or White Supremacy thing at all LMAO!

Edited June 9, 2012 by Immortal4life

[Aaron]

The Past Paradigms on the site weren't actual medieval paradigms, some were fairly modern paradigms that were proven to be wrong recently. The site on the whole seems wishy washy to me. I don't comment on these types of sites unless I feel they are grossly misleading people and I have to say I think this site is picking and choosing facts to come to their own conclusions.

 

Aaron

[Apech]

You sometimes will see that there are people these days who always like to portray the past religions and past spiritual traditions in a negative light. They like to blame the stumbling blocks, limitations, and mistakes in human history on Spirituality and Religion. However, in reality humanity is simply growing and progressing over time. Ultimately, building on the foundations of the past, progress is always made, and greater and greater understandings towards a higher spiritual ideal are ultimately realized.

 

3 major paradigm shifts in Human History-

http://childrenofthe...lisone-paradigm

 

Glossary of terms for the new millennium and future paradigms-

http://thegreatwhite...org/Amenti.html

 

Those three paradigms are a complete mish-mash of different ideas. Your main point seems reasonable, that humanity is 'progressing' over time but the sites you linked to are just full of unsubstantiated and rather strange assumptions. Also in the ancient world and many extant traditions we are not progressing but either fallen from grace. Why do we have to believe in beings living inside the earth who are more advanced? By the way Amenti is just Ancient Egyptian for 'West' or 'hidden' ... because the sun becomes hidden when it sets in the west.

[Unseen_Abilities]

I had a look on that Great White Brotherhood website...Some of it was pretty convincing, up until I clicked the link to the "Best UFO Video Ever!", which I hope was a joke because it's so blatantly fake that it's funny...

[ralis]

Immortal,

 

This is what you have been looking for. The 'I Am Sanctuary of St. Germain' the immortal. As you can see on the Google map of the sanctuary, it's building and fence are all white. Very fitting for the 'Great White Brotherhood', don't you think? For massive amounts of money that the sanctuary charges, you to are guaranteed immortality. Here are just a few examples of ones that have achieved immortality just before dying. I just love that youthful glow!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=np&q=i+am+sanctuary+santa+fe&ie=UTF-8

 

http://users.on.net/~thefirstbruce/Ballards/index.html

Edited June 12, 2012 by ralis

[Stosh]

She looks startlingly like your avatar:)

[Jetsun]

What a bleak view of the universe and existence.

 

Of course there is constant spiritual evolution. All evolution is ultimately towards higher and higher understanding, experience, and existence. All vibration, everything that exists, eternally rises upwards, higher and higher, gradually, to higher expressions, throughout eternity.

 

Not only does every being and every human develop over every lifetime, humanity as a whole, interconnected as one, develop and spiritually evolve, over time throughout the ages in history.

 

According to the Law of Octaves life on earth can devolve as well as evolve, which is evidenced by there being previous cultures which had more advanced spiritual understandings than we have now; examples of this happening are the dark ages in Europe after the great advances of the Greek and Roman times, there have been many times in history where knowledge is lost and things go backwards like what happened after the burning of the Library of Alexandria and regressive ideologies became popular.

 

Maybe it is an assumption to assume things are spiritually evolving and there are some who say that if we don't have enough humans cultivating and linking up the energies of earth and heaven then the earth won't evolve and will die off, which is the the purpose of man on this earth and the reason for our existence, and at the moment things could go either way.

[Informer]

According to the Law of Octaves life on earth can devolve as well as evolve, which is evidenced by there being previous cultures which had more advanced spiritual understandings than we have now; examples of this happening are the dark ages in Europe after the great advances of the Greek and Roman times, there have been many times in history where knowledge is lost and things go backwards like what happened after the burning of the Library of Alexandria and regressive ideologies became popular.

 

Maybe it is an assumption to assume things are spiritually evolving and there are some who say that if we don't have enough humans cultivating and linking up the energies of earth and heaven then the earth won't evolve and will die off, which is the the purpose of man on this earth and the reason for our existence, and at the moment things could go either way.

 

I think much of the great works in the "Library of Alexandria" were preserved in different languages. Just as the preservation of Aristotle's work in Arabic, later to be translated after the dark ages. i think this could have occurred more than once, and may even be continuing to this day.

 

It seems like bits and pieces of a great book of truth is scattered about in different languages and entangled in beliefs from the ones who deem to own these parts of the great book.

 

Alexandria was fairly close to the pyramids, in which the Egyptians had the first known writings of internal alchemy.

 

Lao Tzu, Buddha, Mohammad, Jesus, all came after the existence of the Library of Alexandria, where the knowledge of the time was being stored like a central database and later burned of original copies. I think much of the great book was preserved in various other languages as well. A particular instance is when Aristotles works was translated back from Arabic playing a part in lifting the veil of the reigning "Dark Ages".

 

Buddhist gravestones from the Ptolemaic period have also been found in Alexandria, decorated with depictions of the Dharma wheel.[13] The presence of Buddhists in Alexandria has even drawn the conclusion: "It was later in this very place that some of the most active centers of Christianity were established".[14]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Buddhism

 

The Library of Alexandria suffered many burnings, and these burnings could have been destroying the original copies of the literature while only the translated ones remained, and became owned by certain religions or traditions.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Informer

[Informer]

MCO and the Chakra system could be closely related because they were translated from the same texts.

 

Same as "Inner smile", "Metta", "Accepting Jesus in your heart" etc . . .

 

The Egyptians even had the foresight to preserve DNA in mummification.

 

Their understanding of objective and subjective realities far exceeded anything of the time, from Astronomy to Internal Alchemy, they had all this knowledge before it was as common as it is becoming today or 10,000 years later.

 

here is an essay on Egyptian Mysticism so you can find some correlations if you like:

 

http://svmmvmbonvm.org/kemetmysticism.pdf

Edited June 12, 2012 by Informer

[Apech]

...

 

Lao Tzu, Buddha, Mohammad, Jesus, all came after the existence of the Library of Alexandria, where the knowledge of the time was being stored like a central database and later burned of original copies. I think much of the great book was preserved in various other languages as well. A particular instance is when Aristotles works was translated back from Arabic playing a part in lifting the veil of the reigning "Dark Ages".

 

 

 

The Library of Alexandria suffered many burnings, and these burnings could have been destroying the original copies of the literature while only the translated ones remained, and became owned by certain religions or traditions.

 

The usual date for the founding of the library is under Ptolemy Soter around 290 BC. Some say the original library was burned down by Julius Cesar in about 48 AD but that is not certain and in any case at least part of the collection was retained at the Serapeum. This was prob destroyed around the end of the Roman Empire about 400 AD and probably by Christians (of course). So yes Mohammed and Jesus came after the library but I think Buddha and Loa Tzu before I think.

 

The Arabs did preserve a lot of Greek writing and this was then translated into Latin after the crusades which brought about the Renaissance. So a big thank you to the Muslims. ta.

[Informer]

Here are some more interesting correlations from another source:

 

For the past several years I have added to my path the concepts and rituals of Kabbalah (QBLH, QBL, Qabala, Cabala, etc.) and Hebrew Mysticism to help me understand how other cultures and scholars throughout history have interpreted the nature of creation, Divinity, and magic.

 

I was drawn to these practices because I was growing dissatisfied with the limits of Wicca as it was prescribed by its ancestry and modern founders such as the eccentric Gerald Gardener and the more so questionable Alex Sanders (of whose path I was formally trained by the way.)

 

Though I have become quite adept at the operations and rituals of classic and modern Wicca, as well as other forms of witchcraft, I needed something that was specifically geared to help me see how the ancients of other races developed their ideals.

 

A portion of Wicca and Ceremonial High Magick utlizes the archetypal symbology of the Tree of Life. This symbology has been used and adapted across different cultures including the Druids, the Norse, and even the Eastern European slavic shamans. There are indeed aspects of Egpytian Magick/Heka, Zoroastrianism, Sumerian Mysticism, and Eastern Asian mysticism in its concepts as well.

 

Kabbalah is a very complex system of understanding and is broken down into various aspects such as the symbols, the angelic correspondences, the meditations, Gematria (numerology), the use of Notaricons (mystical acronyms like our modern RADAR, MBA, USA, and SCUBA), and even---most importantly---the human condition and its psychological development!

 

The lore of Kabbalah finds itself rooted in the Genesis account of Creation, the concept of the Garden of Eden and the "fall" of man. The idea is that the universe is broken up into different spheres of creation, each a separate aspect of Divinity and its progressive (or regressive) transmutation of Light ("Ohr") into the material world that we perceive. Each of these spheres, or "Sephiroht (Sephiroth)" consists of angelic forces, planetary energies, and qualities of development that allow humans to microcosmically be forged in "God's Image" (The Macrocosm).

 

(Side note: Isn't it interesting how much the common representation of the Kabbalistic Tree of Life resemebles our modern day molecular models?)

 

The purpose of this page is not to educate the uninitiated in the Tree of Life or Kabbalah, however for the general viewer I will present below very fundamental ideas which I suggest you study in depth on your own. It is a complex system wrapped around these fundamental ideas.

http://www.mydarkcanvasdesign.com/kabalahpage.htm

[Informer]

So a big thank you to the Muslims.

 

Agreed.

 

The Royal Library of Alexandria, or Ancient Library of Alexandria, in Alexandria, Egypt, was the largest and most significant[1] great library of the ancient world. It flourished under the patronage of the Ptolemaic dynasty and functioned as a major center of scholarship from its construction in the 3rd century BC until the Roman conquest of Egypt in 30 BC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria

[Informer]

So yes Mohammed and Jesus came after the library but I think Buddha and Loa Tzu before I think.

 

Yes, I think you are correct: BC 483 - Gautama Buddha, Date of death (source: google.com)

 

So the original hypothesis seems to be incorrect.

 

Here is some mor info in regards to the timeline and history of thing:

 

Oldest Known Religion:

Religion goes back at least as far as human civilizations. Nobody knows what the first religion was. The Egyptians predate the Jews, The Mesopotamians predate them. The Chinese predate them...

 

Religions with a creation story often claim to be the oldest, since the world began with that creation and with the god or gods of that religion.

 

Hinduism: Since Sanskrit is the oldest written language, as far as religion being written down, and as far as organized religion is concerned, it would be Hinduism. It is said that when Rama appeared, according to our calendar, was a million or so years ago (not sure of the exact date, but it's a long time!) And Krishna, God himself according to the Vedic scriptures, appeared here 5,000 years ago. Buddha, about 500 B.C., Jesus, about 2,000 years ago. If you go through the different religious book and study this question deeply, you will find out that Hinduism is the oldest religion of the world. There are no dates and facts, but its history is about more than 50000 thousands years ago.

 

Additional input from our users:

 

Others say that animism would be the oldest known type of religion. This is a primitive religion, which sprang up independently in many areas of the world, but in most countries has mainly been replaced by more formal religion. In animism, spirits are considered to inhabit familiar objects in the landscape. For example, Australian aboriginal beliefs probably go back 60,000 or more.

 

Remnants of animal worship survived in Judaism and Christianity. Satan was a serpent; Jehovah, like Osiris, was worshiped as a bull; Christ was the lamb of God, and the Holy Ghost appeared in the form of a dove. However, these are only symbols of the worshiped object, and are not worshiped in themselves.

 

The Egyptian religion can also be considered the oldest religion. Its origins date back beyond 3000 BCE.

 

First off, this is a very general question. Religion comes from "religare," which is to bind, or have union with, etc. so humans throughout our history have been seeking this union. Yoga, in Sanskrit, means union. This longing for connection to God, to worship God, is innate in most all human beings.

 

Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are all Abrahamic religions. Abraham dates back to 1800 BC.

 

This also depends on religion - my personal belief is Judaism, since Adam and Eve, and then through Noah. Many people don't believe that nature or sex worship, solar worship, or worship of elements or forces of nature are technically religions. Most such people believe that a polytheistic worship of gods that represent the values of the people was the first religion (gone from today's world).

 

From a Biblical perspective, undoubtedly many of the religions of the world are very ancient, and no doubt included what is known today as various 'animistic' elements. Such worship is, according to the Biblical view, the worship of the creature rather than the Creator who made the particular object, whether it be the sun, or a tree etc. It would be akin to us worshiping and adoring a technological invention, instead of praising the inventor, as we know that everything has a maker. In the same way the Bible records these religions as a degeneration from the original monotheism we find in the beginning. The Bible also records the first type of religious ceremony in Genesis 3:3-6 where Cain and Abel both made offerings unto the Lord, the Creator of all. According to the Biblical view, all other religions would have come after this time and developed from it, essentially as creations of man. Genesis 4:3-5 (King James Version)

 

"And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell."

 

Even before this religious ceremony of the offering of the sacrifice, it is recorded that Adam had a form of open fellowship with God as He had spoken to him and received and understood God's instructions. This simple understanding and fellowship between persons, which in a sense transcends all religious practice as man meets personally with His maker, is what is restored to a degree when a person becomes a "new creation" in Christ and receives the in-dwelling Holy Spirit. This requires no religious ceremony, can occur anywhere and anytime, and is open to everyone who wishes to worship "in Spirit and in truth." It also has the assurance that everything has already been done and completed through the finished work of Jesus Christ, not through any amount of religious works which the devotee can do.

 

Worship of Animals and Plants - In the infancy of the world animals were deified and adored, and trees and plants were regarded as sentient beings and received the homage of man. Nearly every animal has been an object of worship. This worship flourished for ages in Egypt and India. In Egypt the worship of the bull (Apis) was associated with that of Osiris (Serapis). The cow is still considered sacred in India. Serpent worship has existed in every part of the world.

 

Australian aboriginal religion began about 6,000 years ago, not 60,000. However, the age of ancient religions predate Christianity's claim of a young earth.

 

According to AFROL.com:

 

"Archaeologists have discovered what seems to be remains of the world's earliest religious worship site in the remote Ngamiland region of Botswana. Here, our ancestors performed advanced rituals, worshiping the python some 70,000 years ago. The sensational discovery strengthens Africa's position as the cradle of modern man. ... While, up until now, scholars have largely held that man's first rituals were carried out over 40,000 years ago in Europe, it now appears that they were wrong about both the time and place. Associate Professor Sheila Coulson, from the Oslo University, however claims to have proof that modern humans started performing advanced rituals in Africa 70,000 years ago. She discovered mankind's oldest known ritual in Botswana.'

 

No doubt it's Islam. The first man also the the first prophet was Adam on the Earth, Adam(Peace be upon him) taught that Allah is the name of the God and follow the commands of Allah was the religion.

 

Vedic Hinduism and Zoroastrianism are considered the oldest organized religions.

 

I would place Hinduism as the first known religion, although it is not strictly a religion in the formal sense of the word, but a spiritual Tradition.

 

The origins of Hindu tradition have been traced as far as the ancient Vedic civilization (2nd and 1st millenia BCE up to 6th Century BCE) and ancient Indus Valley civilization (c3,000- 1500 BC) although there are archaeological indications that strongly suggest such spiritual Traditions whether Hinduism or not existed long before that - into pre-history

 

I'm sure neolithic man and even earlier Species of Mankind had their form of Ritualistic Worship or Traditions. It's possible we might never discover the first true religion and still others may wish to express their points of view or further this question based on their knowledge or expertise on the subject.

 

The practice of seeking and sharing (or hoarding) scarce resources, or alternately, practices and traditions that strengthened clan loyalty.

 

The oldest documented religion still in existence today is a form of paganism, believing in a god and goddess, it is over 40,000 years old, and was once practiced everywhere, though loosely, by Native Americans, Celts, and ancient Romans and tribal Africans. However, it is not as strong because of conviction and genocide by the catholic church.

 

The oldest known religion is shamanism, examples of this date back to when Neanderthals still accompanied us on the planet. The wisest and usually the oldest of a tribe would be appointed the Shaman. Responsible for guidance and medical treatment the Shaman defined religious rites and practices for his tribe. This is only one step away from the family unit which is usually not described as a religious group. Shamanism is found in the all parts of the world. An interesting note, a tribe that was expelled due to religious persecution from Egypt, migrated west and carried their religious practices and some Egyptian traditions with them, they still practice that same religion to this day in Mali. The Dogon? worship Ama, a god who came down on an ark and a wave of fire and landed in a storm who came from the Star Sirrus B, a star that is too far for the naked eye to see, yet they know exactly where it is using a special tool and information given to them by their god more than a thousand years ago.

 

This is easy to answer, Sumerians have the oldest KNOWN religion.Known is the key point, Sumerians have the OLDEST form of communication that told about their religion. Therefore, Sumerians have the oldest KNOWN religion.

 

Animism is believed to be the oldest religion on earth. Animism has been practised by Australian aborigines for at least sixty thousand years. There is also early evidence of animism in European cave art.

 

 

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_oldest_known_religion_in_the_world#ixzz1xbZwGj1z

[Brian]

Yes, I think you are correct: BC 483 - Gautama Buddha, Date of death (source: google.com)

 

So the original hypothesis seems to be incorrect.

 

Here is some mor info in regards to the timeline and history of thing:

 

Wow! A lot of internal conflicts in that quote...

[Informer]

Maybe each culture simply discovered it in their own way, by seeking through questioning. What began all of this questioning becoming questing within?

 

Religions do seem extremely similar at certain points, maybe it is simply describing an actuality in subjective terms and different languages. It seems like some are designed as fables (exercising creativity) while others have a more philosophical inclination(exercising logic). Some grasp the entirety of the situation describing and utilizing both aspects. Some have bits and pieces of original truth that became mangled in vying for power and control and even reasoning for expansion and conquest.

 

I think that being open to all of them without adhering to one allows us to further evaluate the subjective actuality each one attempts to describe in its own way.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Informer

[Brian]

Here's an interesting little time-waster related to the Library:

 

Who burned it?

[Informer]

Wow! A lot of internal conflicts in that quote...

Yeah, I think it is one of the main reasons I'm so bad at History, lol. A lot of it requires accepting a belief or hypothesis as fact, heh.

 

There doesn't seem to be a lot of actual knowing, yet there are elements of historical texts which coincide with each other and with both mystical and subjective phenomena.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Informer

[Apech]

Maybe each culture simply discovered it in their own way, by seeking through questioning. What began all of this questioning becoming questing within?

 

Religions do seem extremely similar at certain points, maybe it is simply describing an actuality in subjective terms and different languages. It seems like some are designed as fables (exercising creativity) while others have a more philosophical inclination(exercising logic). Some grasp the entirety of the situation describing and utilizing both aspects. Some have bits and pieces of original truth that became mangled in vying for power and control and even reasoning for expansion and conquest.

 

I think that being open to all of them without adhering to one allows us to further evaluate the subjective actuality each one attempts to describe in its own way.

 

I think that different religions are actually (partly) codified ancient wisdom ... when I say ancient I mean well beyond recorded history say 150,000 to 200,000 years old. The differences reflect the way the same knowledge was expressed in different places, terrains, social conditions and so on. So after the last ice age maybe 10 - 12,000 years ago mankind started to settle and move to arable farming in fixed locales instead of hunter gatherer nomadic style ... then maybe 6,000 years ago we start to get the beginnings of recorded 'civilisation' and then history as we know it from 3000 BC (roughly) and then the beginning of extant religions maybe 2000 - 1000 bc eg. Vedic in India and Shamanistic Taoism in China and so on. Then a lot happening about 300 - 500 BC (Buddha, LZ, Greek pre-socratics like Heraclitus) ... then of course JC ... well you know the rest.

 

Point being ... for over 100,000 years mankind was naturally spiritual along shamanistic lines and had 'easy' access to spirit world and so on. This access got less and less and more exclusive to particular people and grous as time went on ... and techniques to regain what was once natural had to be developed e.g. yoga, meditation, shaman using drugs, chanting, etc. etc.

[Birch]

I do think there are commonalities but to approach each religion (and religious practice) as if they were ALL simply different versions of the same thing is IMO both valuable and dangerous. 'Valuable and dangerous to whom' are IMO up for discussion at every point, place and time, this question arises.

 

No doubt IMO however that when it comes to 'beliefs', the latter are more fixed and more subject to degradation due to context, time, people,... anything really that pushes beliefs (and as a consequence all that stems from them) into a fixed position relative to actual living reality which is much more dynamic (one could reflect here on 'dynamic religions', or 'system-thinking' and why the latter - such as Taoism might 'live on' beyond other systems which need much more forceful impressions upon people for the latter to take them on (fire does burn wood;-)).

 

What are you taking as 'baseline' for 'same'? - IMO/IME it's tempting to take a very broad brush from one's own background and forays into other 'very different' practices (like Westerner practicing 'Eastern' stuff for example) and say 'that over there in that place and time is 'the same' as what I'm practicing now'. One, it can't be 'the same' as the person practicing now is not the same person as was practicing in that other time, place, space. And IMO and small experience, doing so, one may miss out on something critical to spiritual development.

 

Assuming that's the goal of spiritual practice - and not anything like I mentioned in the other thread (like current socioeconomic-sexual-political agendas)

[Informer]

One, it can't be 'the same' as the person practicing now is not the same person as was practicing in that other time, place, space.

 

Why is that? They seem to be pointing at very similar phenomena over a very long time span. Even in the present day, and always NOW, one can still see for oneself what they are pointing at. It was as NOW to the originators of the text as much as it is NOW to us.

[Birch]

One, it can't be 'the same' as the person practicing now is not the same person as was practicing in that other time, place, space.

 

Why is that? They seem to be pointing at very similar phenomena over a very long time span. Even in the present day, and always NOW, one can still see for oneself what they are pointing at. It was as NOW to the originators of the text as much as it is NOW to us.

 

It's tough IMO to take a 'present day' (whatever that is) stance from our current (conditioned) perspective on something in the past or elsewhere and 'retro-understand it' or 'here-understand it' relative to current expressions and understandings and practices. Are the contexts really the same? I mean in some texts they are explicitly described in ways we reckon we recognize (and I have personally enjoyed and found damn useful doing so myself) or just interpreted as such?

 

The devil is (thankfully) in the details. Obviously I congratulate you on your NOWness :-) I'm just up for examining it.

[ralis]

All spiritual systems and religions are based solely on 'belief systems', which are impediments to what is real. Believing in a belief system is all you get.