Stillness and Movement Kung.

[ChiDragon]

Let's have another brainstorm. In you own words, do not cite any reference, what is the difference between Stillness and Movement Chi Kung....???

Edited June 9, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Protector]

Well... I have no idea what you're talking about

[mjjbecker]

Well... I have no idea what you're talking about

 

Don't worry about it. Neither does he. Being Chinese and having done some taijiquan, he has appointed himself to educate the poor deluded foreigners and save them from their ignorance. This despite there being non-Chinese on this forum that have considerably more knowledge and understanding on the subjects of martial arts and qigong than he does.

 

Specific practices are exactly that. They are not something to be speculated upon 'in your own words'. Understanding comes from doing something, not reading about it. 'Brainstorming' about something without correct understanding is simply idle speculation at best, and intellectual masturbation at worst.

[Protector]

Glad we could skip all the important stuff and get right to the bickering

[ChiDragon]

hehehe.....

 

Someone was being convicted before hearing the evidence. Everyone should have enough confidence to state "in your own words". This is the requirement of this thread. Why should anyone be offended...??? What are you afraid of....????

 

 

PS...

Sinfest..

I like you, you have lots of sense of humor.....

Edited June 10, 2012 by ChiDragon

[mYTHmAKER]

[thelerner]

I'm far from an expert but I don't see that much separation between them. Matter of fact I see them as complimentary. For example the Micro Cosmic Orbit, Michael Winn teaches a sequence of physical movements that augment the mental aspect. Even in stillness there are teachers who recommend moving the eyes up and down to help cycle it.

 

It goes the other way too, there are times I'll do a chi gung routine without motion (or very little motion); standing and doing it in my mind, there is flow going on, sometimes more profound then when I do the 'physical' motions.

 

In sitting meditation most of my training was to be motionless, but in the past few years I've been picking up rocking ala Michael Lomax's Stillness Movement system. When rocking in emptiness meditation is it moving or stillness? My mind is empty my body rocks.

[ChiDragon]

Thank you very much for all your participation. I like to begin my study with the most basic fundamental concepts. This way it will give me a good foundation for a better understanding and more appreciative and effective in my practice. As long I have the basic concepts down pack, then there is no need for me to rely upon someone to give me instructions constantly. In addition, I can always compare with other practices to pick out the similarities and distinguish the differences. What all this amounts to is comprehension to understand all aspects of the matter.

 

During the learning process, I must have the mental capacity to accept all the facts and eliminate any fallacies. Indeed, I must learn what it is instead of what others were telling me what it is. If I can put a most complicated concept as simply as possible in my own words, then I will know that I have grasp the gist of it. However, if I have found any error in the concept in the future, then I must correct myself instead of fanatically continue believing what I had learned before. I think this is the best police in learning. Don't you think...???

[mYTHmAKER]

Thank you very much for all your participation. I like to begin my study with the most basic fundamental concepts. This way it will give me a good foundation for a better understanding and more appreciative and effective in my practice. As long I have the basic concepts down pack, then there is no need for me to rely upon someone to give me instructions constantly. In addition, I can always compare with other practices to pick out the similarities and distinguish the differences. What all this amounts to is comprehension to understand all aspects of the matter.

 

During the learning process, I must have the mental capacity to accept all the facts and eliminate any fallacies. Indeed, I must learn what it is instead of what others were telling me what it is. If I can put a most complicated concept as simply as possible in my own words, then I will know that I have grasp the gist of it. However, if I have found any error in the concept in the future, then I must correct myself instead of fanatically continue believing what I had learned before. I think this is the best police in learning. Don't you think...???

 

You still haven't told us the difference IN YOUR OWN WORDS

[ChiDragon]

The most basic concept again is the Yin-Yang concept. My definition of Chi Kung is the ultimate method of breathing. It can be done statically and dynamically. The static practice is called Jing Kung(靜功); and the dynamic practice is Dong Kung(動功). The difference of the two is that the former is in stillness, the latter is in action.

 

Jing(靜) is stillness; calmness; quietness; tranquility.

Dong(動) is action; constantly in motion;

 

Jing Kung(static method) is to perform breathing exercise in a sitting, standing or lying position with no body part movement. Even though it is in stillness, but there are lots of activities inside the body. Stillness is not really stillness. The meaning of stillness was only simply implies no arms or legs movement. Thus this leads us back into the old Yin-Yang concept again. There is Yang within Yin which is analogous to "there is action within stillness".

 

Where are the actions...??? Well, besides the breathing activities, there are activities in the internal organs. While we are breathing the oxygen, the heart was very busy pumping the oxygenated blood to the body cells to produce the body energy. All other internal organs are performing their vital functions for the body holistically. During Jing Kung, please keep in mind that the speed of the metabolism rate is at minimal. However, the speed of the metabolism rate will be increased at Dong Kung(dynamic method).

 

Sometimes, you will hear people say after performing the Jing Kung that they felt much more refreshing. It is because the body cells had went through a cell respiration process which involves self repair and help all the other organs to fine tune their vital functional activities. It took a lot shorter time to do so as compared to the normal time it took to do all that in our sleep.

Edited June 10, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Friend]

Being Chinese and having done some taijiquan, he does.

 

He is no chinese.

[Informer]

Where are the actions...???

 

I think they are within will / intent.

[ChiDragon]

Dong Kung(dynamic method) is to perform breathing exercise with slow body movements in a sitting, standing or lying position. However, it is more effective while standing with the legs moving from point to point such as Tai Ji Quan or other similar Chi Kung methods. While moving, all the muscle are slightly contracted, the speed of the metabolism rate will be increased. That means the body energy will be generated to a maximum much faster than normal. That is why you felt much stronger and with lots of endless potential energy that you cannot dissipate all at once. It is because the body energy was constantly being generated while you are doing the Dong Kung. At the same time, your body will be going through a healing process if there an area needs to be repaired. Otherwise, all the potential energy are being utilized to fine tune the body to its optimum state of homeostasis.

[ChiDragon]

Where are the actions...???

I think they are within will / intent.

 

Where are the actions...???

Well, besides the breathing activities, there are activities in the internal organs. While we are breathing the oxygen, the heart was very busy pumping the oxygenated blood to the body cells to produce the body energy. All other internal organs are performing their vital functions for the body holistically.

 

The action or activities of the internal organs are not under control by will/intent. They are operated on their own by a monitoring system with lots of sensors. Hence, the mind doesn't handle that.

 

Edited to add:

The only things, here, by will/intent is breathing. The goal is to be able to perform abdominal breathing. It is the ultimate goal in Chi Kung and martial arts.

Edited June 10, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Ya Mu]

In the interest of clarity, Chidragon's views here are his interpretations of static qigong and dynamic qigong, and have absolutely nothing whatsoever in common, or to do with, the neigong system of Jing Dong Gong; Stillness-Movement Neigong most definitely does not have as its goal "the goal is to be able to perform abdominal breathing."

[ChiDragon]

Yes, thank you for pointing this out.

 

Please remember, this is Stillness(靜功) AND Movement Kung(動功) are two different methods.

 

I am not describing Stillness-Movement Kung(靜動功) yet...

Edited June 10, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Friend]

Please remember, this is Stillness(靜功) AND Movement Kung(動功).

 

I am not describing Stillness-Movement Kung(靜動功) yet.

 

As if you are able to describe- yet.

[ChiDragon]

As if you are able to describe- yet.

Yes, please do not underestimate your counterpart....

[寒月 Hanyue]

I am not describing Stillness-Movement Kung(靜動功) yet...

 

Yes, please do not underestimate your counterpart....

 

ChiDragon,

 

Having listened to your "theories" and ideas over the last year, and having watched your videos of what you call taiji and qigong as it has grown from a few years instruction decades ago, I don't think anyone with any sense is underestimating your knowledge and experience, let alone your abilities.

 

Especially when it comes to your comments regarding methodology, systems and lineages you have no connection with, no learning within, no experience of whatsoever.

 

So please carry on, I'm sure Yamu would love you to explain his lineage to him

 

Best,

Edited June 10, 2012 by snowmonki

[ChiDragon]

Thank you...

 

Is there something wrong with understanding the theory in advance before any practice....??? Based on the understanding of the basic concepts and applied efficiently may have the same result with less effort. Of cause this is only my experience and humble opinion.

 

So please carry on, I'm sure Yamu would love you to explain his lineage to him

I do appreciate that...

 

PS...

I did not make all these up. I do have my sources to back me up. Unfortunately, the problem is nobody can read them for verification. It would be biased on my part if I translate them. Do you see my dilemma...???

 

Perhaps there is no need for the translation since they had been spoken and repeated here for many times already.

Edited June 10, 2012 by ChiDragon

[寒月 Hanyue]

Let's have another brainstorm. In you own words, do not cite any reference, what is the difference between Stillness and Movement Chi Kung....???

 

I wonder why you ask, because based on previous threads you don't want to hear what others say. Rather you want to tell them what it "really" is all about.

 

Specific practices are exactly that. They are not something to be speculated upon 'in your own words'. Understanding comes from doing something, not reading about it.

 

Yes jing 靜 translates to 'tranquility' or 'stillness' in English, and as such can be applied in a variety of ways in the same way that the English terms could be. As Mike points out, specific practices will apply the term in their own way to explain certain parts of that whole.

 

Outside specifics its like saying, what does 'red' mean in painting? Though that doesn't stop many an art critic/enthusiast

 

Personally I found the roots of the word 靜 jing very intriguing in regards Daoist practice. Dong 動 is also interesting in its roots and relationship with jing and where is emerges.

 

Best,

[ChiDragon]

Specific practices are exactly that. They are not something to be speculated upon 'in your own words'. Understanding comes from doing something, not reading about it.

 

How about understanding comes from doing something AND reading about it. Is it more complete...??? Doing it sometimes doesn't know why, but from the readings written by knowledge people may tell you why.

[寒月 Hanyue]

Thank you...

 

Is there something wrong with understanding the theory in advance before any practice....??? Based on the understanding of the basic concepts and applied efficiently may have the same result with less effort. Of cause this is only my experience and humble opinion.

 

 

I may have to send you the bill for a new keyboard all the tea I keep snorting all over it when I read stuff like this

 

I'm going to be direct and as polite as I can be with you Chidragon.

 

You wouldn't understand even if I took the trouble to explain it to you. I know this because I have watched you ignore ALL the attempts made by a wide spectrum of members of this forum to help you in your practice and understanding of qigong or taiji.

 

This is of course your perogative.

 

You have developed your own way based on years of playing with the little you were taught and from what you have read. Good on you for that time and effort, but it is what it is and isn't what it isn't, can't say more than that. While you may not be able to recognise this, others on this board do, hence their attempts to nudge you.

 

Your cup seems quite full. Just don't be surprised when people with more experience than you pipe up to give their opinion and disagree with you.

 

I do appreciate that...

 

PS...

I did not make all these up. I do have my sources to back me up.

 

Make what up? The Chinese language?

 

You are supplying basic definitions of Chinese words and your interpretation of how they apply to nothing in particular but things very broadly. What is there to make up? There is also little revelation in your posts.

 

Its like saying 'yao' (waist) is referenced in the taiji classics, therefore your waist is used in taiji. It is used because it connects your pelvis to your ribcage, when one moves both move. So the waist is important..... Its true but beyond obvious.

 

What you are ignoring is that you think by knowing the basic concept behind common words you can unpack the methods of lineages you do not know, have no experience of, and in the case of jingdonggong had not heard of until recently on this board.

 

So please do explain it, by all means. Unless of course you mean a different jingdonggong?

 

Unfortunately, the problem is nobody can read them for verification. It would be biased on my part if I translate them. Do you see my dilemma...???

 

What dilemma? Why can't people read them? Do you think there aren't Chinese reading people on this board

 

And I thought you said;

In you own words, do not cite any reference,...

 

Most people on this board can back up what they post, either with direct teaching from a decent teacher, from a repuatable source they've read, or even both. Though I have a feeling these won't be good enough somehow

 

Anyhoo, I have practice to do.

 

Best,

[寒月 Hanyue]

Doing it sometimes doesn't know why, but from the readings written by knowledge people may tell you why.

 

Feeding the mind/ego's need to intellectually grasp something so you can tell others about it, is not the same thing as deeply understanding something inside which does not require you to be able to verbalise it.

 

Being in love does not compare to reading about it, and will always elude the words used to describe it, even Shakespeares.

 

Reading knowledgable people who have written from direct experience from cultivation is always good. You should try posting some from someone sometime.

 

Best,

Edited June 10, 2012 by snowmonki

[ChiDragon]

1. Yes jing 靜 translates to 'tranquility' or 'stillness' in English, and as such can be applied in a variety of ways in the same way that the English terms could be. As Mike points out, specific practices will apply the term in their own way to explain certain parts of that whole.

 

2. Outside specifics its like saying, what does 'red' mean in painting? Though that doesn't stop many an art critic/enthusiast

 

3. Personally I found the roots of the word 靜 jing very intriguing in regards Daoist practice. Dong 動 is also interesting in its roots and relationship with jing and where is emerges.

 

Best,

 

1. Exactly. I intended to "specific practices will apply the term in their own way to explain certain parts of that whole."

 

2. Exactly. I have no intention to go outside the scope of my explanation to avoid any ambiguity.

 

3. The roots of the word 靜 jing and Dong 動 to all fields in the Marital Arts industry. It was not limited to just Taoist only. As I had pointed out before, 靜 jing and Dong 動 are a dyadic Yin-Yang duality.

Edited June 10, 2012 by ChiDragon