Religious Taoism & The Monkey King...

[donjitsu2]

So, here's a question for all of those who understand Religious Taoism and Chinese folk religion:

 

Where does Sun Wukong (Monkey King from Journey to the West) fit in? What are his associations?

 

You see, I'd like to put up a traditional shrine in my personal gym/kwoon at the house. But I don't really have much of connection with Guan Yu and would rather use Sun Wukong. I just don't want to get smacked with any negative ju-ju for doing so...

 

I know he has been "deified" and there are temples in China and Thailand (that I know of...) but there is little info on the net (at least in English). So, I come to you guys looking for help.

 

(I know it is an odd question, btw)

 

 

Train Hard,

Josh Skinner

[Marblehead]

 

(I know it is an odd question, btw)

 

Train Hard,

Josh Skinner

I know you will get some good answers if the right members read your post. Good luck!

[Andrei]

Hanuman in hindu religion.

 

 

[Stosh]

Very nice sutta!

Stosh

Edited June 11, 2012 by Stosh

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Josh,

 

In Journey to the West the original folklore surrounding Monkey is harnessed into a pro Buddhist/anti Daoist polemic, so for Daoist purposes he is not appropriate, though he is beloved in China, and so a part of Chinese popular religion, which could care less about theological niceties.

 

If you want to be proper, your choice would be Xuanwu:

 

 

This is one of my favorite pictures of him by the way.

 

The Wikipedia article is a fair introduction to him:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xuan_Wu_%28god%29

 

It is his temples which are on Mount Wudang and he is the patron of all purely Daoist martial arts:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wudang_Mountains

 

He is also very important in Daoist ritual and meditation, being one of the deities who rules the North of the five directions and the kidneys of the five yin organs. In internal cultivation the kidneys are the seat of original jing and qi.

 

In so far as Hanuman is trickster there is some correspondence, because above all else Monkey is a trickster.

 

On a purely personal note, I love Monkey and have since I was a boy and saw Alakazam the Great:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alakazam_the_Great

 

I sometimes even watch Dragonball Z because of its relation to Monkey, but it's not my favorite anime.

 

I wish you well in all your studies.

[donjitsu2]

Josh,

 

In Journey to the West the original folklore surrounding Monkey is harnessed into a pro Buddhist/anti Daoist polemic, so for Daoist purposes he is not appropriate, though he is beloved in China, and so a part of Chinese popular religion, which could care less about theological niceties.

 

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I'm going to be honest I didn't quite see the anti-Taoist themes in the story.

 

When I read it I can tell the author considers Buddhism to be superior to Taoism. However, I'm always left feeling that the author has a great deal of respect for Taoism and the Taoist pantheon.

 

Perhaps, I'm just missing something.

 

 

Thanks again,

Josh Skinner

[tccii]

Thanks for the reply.

 

I'm going to be honest I didn't quite see the anti-Taoist themes in the story.

 

When I read it I can tell the author considers Buddhism to be superior to Taoism. However, I'm always left feeling that the author has a great deal of respect for Taoism and the Taoist pantheon.

 

Perhaps, I'm just missing something.

 

 

Thanks again,

Josh Skinner

 

 

The story is not really ant-Taoist, but if you read the entire 100 chapter narrative it is easy to see how you could interpret it as ant-Taoist. Many of the villains are disguised as Quanzhen Taoist priests. The story is considered an allegory of the Nei Dan cultivation process. It is believed to be loosely based on the Qi Chu Ji's journey to the West to meet Genghis Khan. The semi-Buddhist theme in the work is more a reflection of the popularity of Buddhism at the time it was written.

 

At the end of the story Monkey gained full enlightenment which makes him equivalent of Buddha and Lao Zi, so if you like the concept, then go with it. Unless you aspire to be an orthodox Daoist priest (who might favor Xuan Wu or the Three Primordial Ones, as pointed out earlier) then don't worry about it.

 

What you put on your walls is a personal preference. At the end of the day, it is your own practice and attainment that matters.

 

 

[ChiDragon]

...deleted dup.

Edited June 13, 2012 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

The monkey king, Sun Wu kong, was based on a fictional Buddhist story. There was no anti-Taoism in the story. Su Wu Kong was assigned by Kuan Yin to assist a high Buddhist monk, Tang Shan Zang(唐三藏), to go to the western region(India) to obtain the Buddhist sutra. During the journey to the west, the Monkey King was supposed to help to get rid of all the obstacles. However, this monkey was portrayed by the author that he was very untamed. Therefore, there was a head band placed on his head to control him. Every time when he disobey his orders, then the monk recites an incantation to cause him to have a headache to remedy his disobedience.

 

The Chinese do not worship the Monkey King as a deity. Perhaps some people outside of China do. It maybe in Thailand.

Edited June 13, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Informer]

Fairy tales used to entice children creativity to make them more pliable to conform to a specific mold.

 

The USA uses Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny to mold us towards christian consumerism.

Edited June 13, 2012 by Informer

[Walker]

The Chinese do not worship the Monkey King as a deity. Perhaps some people outside of China do. It maybe in Thailand.

 

I have personally visited an active temple devoted to the Monkey King in rural Fujian (Fukien) Province in China. I have also seen him placed on the shrine of a Daoist priest from Mainland China who has a temple in the United States. Many worshippers who visit that temple are first generation Chinese immigrants to the US. The rest are mostly American-born Chinese. I wish I could offer you more. I will admit that I can't recall seeing a Sun Wukong statue in any of the major Daoist temples I've visited in China, and I've been to a fair number--but the Daoist pantheon is huge and more colorful/flexible than Chi Dragon might have you believe (he has stated here before that Guanyin does not appear in Daoist temples--patently untrue). The O.P.'s is an interesting question that I have pondered in the past, but I have still yet to learn much.

[flowing hands]

So, here's a question for all of those who understand Religious Taoism and Chinese folk religion:

 

Where does Sun Wukong (Monkey King from Journey to the West) fit in? What are his associations?

 

You see, I'd like to put up a traditional shrine in my personal gym/kwoon at the house. But I don't really have much of connection with Guan Yu and would rather use Sun Wukong. I just don't want to get smacked with any negative ju-ju for doing so...

 

I know he has been "deified" and there are temples in China and Thailand (that I know of...) but there is little info on the net (at least in English). So, I come to you guys looking for help.

 

(I know it is an odd question, btw)

 

 

Train Hard,

Josh Skinner

The Monkey God, as in Chi Tien Da Shen, was formally a Daoist Immortal, but now is a Buddha. He has been revered for many many years and formed part of the folk religion of ancient China. His Temples can be found in all sorts of places even in South Korea. He is normally found together with two other Immortals who are his bond brothers. Huang Lo Xian Shi and Li Erh Xian Shi (Lao Tzu). If you go to the post about my video and watch this you will see a short clip of me practicing one of the Monkey Gods cudgel forms that he taught me 26 years ago. The Monkey God is a good statue to put in a place for martial practice, he is one of the best martial artist there is.

[ChiDragon]

I have personally visited an active temple devoted to the Monkey King in rural Fujian (Fukien) Province in China. I have also seen him placed on the shrine of a Daoist priest from Mainland China who has a temple in the United States. Many worshippers who visit that temple are first generation Chinese immigrants to the US. The rest are mostly American-born Chinese. I wish I could offer you more. I will admit that I can't recall seeing a Sun Wukong statue in any of the major Daoist temples I've visited in China, and I've been to a fair number--but the Daoist pantheon is huge and more colorful/flexible than Chi Dragon might have you believe (he has stated here before that Guanyin does not appear in Daoist temples--patently untrue). The O.P.'s is an interesting question that I have pondered in the past, but I have still yet to learn much.

Walker...

What the hell do I know...??? I am a atheist....

 

However, I know this much. At one time, a ruler was ordered the three religion to be combined together to avoid conflicts between the Taoism, Buddhism and Confucians. From then on, one religion worship the deities of the other.

Edited June 14, 2012 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

The monkey king, Sun Wu kong, was based on a fictional Buddhist story. There was no anti-Taoism in the story. Su Wu Kong was assigned by Kuan Yin to assist a high Buddhist monk, Tang Shan Zang(唐三藏), to go to the western region(India) to obtain the Buddhist sutra. During the journey to the west, the Monkey King was supposed to help to get rid of all the obstacles. However, this monkey was portrayed by the author that he was very untamed. Therefore, there was a head band placed on his head to control him. Every time when he disobey his orders, then the monk recites an incantation to cause him to have a headache to remedy his disobedience.

 

This story indicates that Sun Wu Kong was originally in the Buddhist religion.

[Friend]

Where does Sun Wukong (Monkey King from Journey to the West) fit in? What are his associations?

 

Josh,

 

I just understand Journey to the West as a text of person in confrontation with life situation, each of the group represents several main aspects of a whole person which influence each other. If Sun Wukong is Ego/Mind than he still try to serve Xuanzhang the true self is a point in the story and often it does rampage and shake the heavens,

break the rules and dissobey them.

 

Still he is loyal which I see with his own teacher who teach him the 72 Transformation (power)(able to learn this need great potential, even the test of knocking the back of his head is a test of perception) while Xuanzhang get him out of the mountain.

 

The Mind/Ego is surpressed by the 5 Elements and the true self is resucing him. In some way the story seem to tell that the true self- because its purity -do not understand it well if other things like demons want to trick and often it is Sun Wukong who see behind the scheme and try to warn especially after obtaining the fire eyes.

So the mind is need in times to perceive with clarity. So much about sharing one of many possible interpretation of part of this story.

 

One of the thing to worship the deity is not only to pay him respect with prayer, rituals and sacrifices but to have the virtue of this deity cultivated. So you will need to cultivate clarity, sharp senses, intelligence, loyality and cleverness for example- and stay out of things the deity dislike.

 

Best,

Q

[james liem]

Worship the deity like Sun Wu Kong ( the monkey King) :lol: :P .

There are many deities that we can Worship rather than just a monkey.....

[Walker]

The Chinese do not worship the Monkey King as a deity. Perhaps some people outside of China do. It maybe in Thailand.

 

 

Walker...

What the hell do I know...??? I am a atheist....

 

If you know that you don't know,

 

why do you make things up and pass them off as knowledge?

[ChiDragon]

If you know that you don't know,

 

why do you make things up and pass them off as knowledge?

That was something I didn't have full knowledge of at one time. If I don't stick my head out to have someone to correct me, then I will never know. Would I.....???

[Guest allan]

If you know that you don't know,

 

why do you make things up and pass them off as knowledge?

 

That was something I didn't have full knowledge of at one time. If I don't stick my head out to have someone to correct me, then I will never know. Would I.....???

 

ChiDragon,

 

With the several misleading statements you have made in your threads on Tao, and on Qi (Chi), it would be foolhardy and time consuming for anyone in the know to help clean up the mess so created.

 

Practice more, talk less could be appropriate for your further learning of Tao and of Qi.

[ChiDragon]

Yes, thank you for your advice.

BTW I am always ambiguous about superstitions but I have no problem with putting the facts together....

 

Practice without knowing is not a good idea in learning, IMO. I'm sorry that one cannot distinguish between the facts and fallacies. I do believe what I said and meant what I said without any reasonable doubts. If anyone have any legitimate and reasonable questions, I am willing to go into any discuss without any temperamental distractions. Peace....

Edited June 26, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Walker]

That was something I didn't have full knowledge of at one time. If I don't stick my head out to have someone to correct me, then I will never know. Would I.....???

 

妄想.

[ChiDragon]

妄想.

 

Yes, it is really immaterial to me for putting so much time and effort into a monkey character from a fictional story.

[Walker]

putting so much time and effort into a monkey character from a fictional story.

 

Haha, well, at any rate, you've managed to describe the average human life in a nutshell, which is redeeming enough!

Edited July 16, 2012 by Walker

[flowing hands]

Yes, it is really immaterial to me for putting so much time and effort into a monkey character from a fictional story.

The story of Hsi-yu Chi may be loosely based on a true story, but the Monkey God existed and was revered long before this.

[ChiDragon]

The story of Hsi-yu Chi may be loosely based on a true story, but the Monkey God existed and was revered long before this.

If he does, I'll be the monkey's uncle.....