Biomehanical relationsip between stances and 8 extraordinary channels / 12 meridians

[Jox]

My question on another forum...

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1173643&postcount=208

I didnt get answer there... Can anyone answer my question in that post?

 

I would like to know, what is the relationship between stances and 8 extraordinary channels / 12 meridians. 50/50 bodyweight distribution in YJKYM and 100/0 bodyweight distribution in side and advancing stances? Does our left and right trusting channels switch on/off when we changes our body weight from left to right leg? Etc...?

 

 

Jox,

 

P.S.

YJKYM = Yee Jee Kim Yong Ma - basic, horse stance in wing chun

Edited June 15, 2012 by Jox

[64changes]

Your questions a bit complicated, but here goes.

The channels you're referring too run slightly differently in everyone, as such, a precise answer is difficult.

However, your own perception of those channels and how they work is as valuable as anyone else's.

The point of this stuff is to learn & refine knowledge surely?

 

So, my answer is really to stand still, zhan zhuang like, and feels the channels, experience them, and tally that to what you're taught, read, learn.

Oh, and train more.

 

Just my interpretation of the situation.

Edited June 15, 2012 by 64changes

[寒月 Hanyue]

My question on another forum...

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1173643&postcount=208

I didnt get answer there... Can anyone answer my question in that post?

 

I would like to know, what is the relationship between stances and 8 extraordinary channels / 12 meridians. 50/50 bodyweight distribution in YJKYM and 100/0 bodyweight distribution in side and advancing stances? Does our left and right trusting channels switch on/off when we changes our body weight from left to right leg? Etc...?

 

 

Jox,

 

P.S.

YJKYM = Yee Jee Kim Yong Ma - basic, horse stance in wing chun

 

Simple answer, there isn't one.

 

People argue over the bio-mechanical reasoning behind different martial styles postures. And that is something tangible. The qijingbamai (8 vessels) are largely ignored even amongst many TCM practitioners thesedays.

 

Please be aware that Chinese medical channel theory is a multi-layered textured weave of a pattern system for understanding the body and its functions. They are meant to be understood together as a whole system. These days people bang on about the jingluo ("primary" channels) because of the predominance of acupuncture.

 

There are different ways of stimulating the jingluo (channels) via the musculo-skeletal system, but I'm sure there will be a variety of opinions on the reasons why certain styles use certain postures and the subsequent effects. You then get into understanding why certain postures should be used by people to improve, balance, and strengthen THEIR bodies, qi and blood. One posture does not fit all. So we know martial postures have other reasons for being the way they are.

 

Going back to the qijingbamai, simplistically they are very 'old' channels that develop early in embryology, they support the jingluo and everything else. Again simplistically to make a parrallel think of the old parts of our nervous system that underlie everything else. They go from very deep (bone marrow) and emanate outside the body. The 'routes' often depicted on the body are just a guide to the 'pathway'.

 

The qiao mai run up along the outside (yang) and inside (yin) of the leg, the yang continues up the side behind the shoulder and goes to the head, the yin continues up the front of the body, neck and face. Qiao 跷 is sometimes translated simply as "heel", but actually means more "to raise the foot" and so some translate it as "motility", they are considered related to the ability to move and use the legs.

 

The yang (outside) and yin (inside) qiao vessels work in harmony, if one is overactive you will have trouble in your legs, usually showing up as an inside/outside muscular imbalance potentially causing alignment issues due to the excess tension on one side. Why the poster highlights the yin qiao over anything else is beyond me, but they could simply be giving a short quick answer or wanting you to think about that part of the picture.

 

So while in gongfu you want to train the legs correctly and well, and the qiao vessels can be understood to relate to the proper functioning of the legs. Saying your gongfu leg training or postures are about training the qiao vessels, is like saying it is about training your neuro-muscular control. It is, but it is not only that. I'd be just as if not more concerned with the jingjin (sinew channels), it is this layer that gongfu trained in specific ways connecting the body in ways unusual to other physcial disciplines.

 

Now in Daoism they do say there is a big difference to the way you'll stand and move once the leg qimai (qiao & wei) are fully open, but the way you cultivate that would have little to do with specific postures in my opinion.

 

I am no expert on wingchun, but I can see a large variety of reasons for that posture both from a training the tissues and joints to be springy, and a strategic perspective. Though I also feel that there are others ways to train essentially the same thing.

 

Switching off chong mai?? Have no idea what you are talking about sorry.

 

50/50 usually helps train the leg-hip-spine connection, whilst 100/0 strengthens it further while improving range of motion and providing a 'buffer zone' as big as possible to allow freedom of movement, though the full range will usually not be used but kept spare.

 

As for the comments about qihai, laogong and jianjing etc I think you'd need to ask the person who mentioned it. I don't know enough about wingchun to even bother speculating.

 

Hope this helps,

[joeblast]

My question on another forum...

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1173643&postcount=208

I didnt get answer there... Can anyone answer my question in that post?

 

I would like to know, what is the relationship between stances and 8 extraordinary channels / 12 meridians. 50/50 bodyweight distribution in YJKYM and 100/0 bodyweight distribution in side and advancing stances? Does our left and right trusting channels switch on/off when we changes our body weight from left to right leg? Etc...?

 

 

Jox,

 

P.S.

YJKYM = Yee Jee Kim Yong Ma - basic, horse stance in wing chun

Perhaps a bit tangential, but here's a link to a similar idea from the ymaa board, I related a teaching session where we were given some instruction on differentiating between grounding vs rooting.

 

http://ymaa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5050&p=29134#p29134

[Jox]

 

Switching off chong mai?? Have no idea what you are talking about sorry.

 

 

Snowmonki thank you for your explanation.

 

 

I read somewhere (can not find the source...), when we stand for example only on the left leg our left trusting channel is active or more active than right and vice versa... So the question was, if the left and right trusting channels "switch" on/of, but not the core channel.

 

Jox,

Edited June 15, 2012 by Jox

[Jox]

Your questions a bit complicated, but here goes.

The channels you're referring too run slightly differently in everyone, as such, a precise answer is difficult.

However, your own perception of those channels and how they work is as valuable as anyone else's.

The point of this stuff is to learn & refine knowledge surely?

 

So, my answer is really to stand still, zhan zhuang like, and feels the channels, experience them, and tally that to what you're taught, read, learn.

Oh, and train more.

 

Just my interpretation of the situation.

 

Agree with you..., but still good to have proper info.

 

Jox,

[Jox]

Perhaps a bit tangential, but here's a link to a similar idea from the ymaa board, I related a teaching session where we were given some instruction on differentiating between grounding vs rooting.

 

http://ymaa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5050&p=29134#p29134

 

Will take a look, thnx...

 

Jox,

[unmike]

My question on another forum...

http://ezine.kungfum...3&postcount=208

I didnt get answer there... Can anyone answer my question in that post?

 

I would like to know, what is the relationship between stances and 8 extraordinary channels / 12 meridians. 50/50 bodyweight distribution in YJKYM and 100/0 bodyweight distribution in side and advancing stances? Does our left and right trusting channels switch on/off when we changes our body weight from left to right leg? Etc...?

 

 

Jox,

 

P.S.

YJKYM = Yee Jee Kim Yong Ma - basic, horse stance in wing chun

 

Because the meridians have a correspondence to the chains of piezoelectric, collagen based connective tissues that unite our muscles, tendons, ligaments, bones, and organs, the answer to your question is a qualified yes. Each and every movement or micromovement you perform, be it blinking an eye or throwing a punch, throws switches and induces currents in your internal electrical network. Different stances lead to different pressures lead to different electrical patterns, the diagrams for which are generally felt out through practice rather than drawn. The horse stance of wing chun, with its pigeon toes, tucked pelvis, and clenched knees and fists probably has an interesting electrical profile. The shifts between positions create changing polarities and currents, the likes of which most martial practitioners rarely consider.

[spiraltao]

I found these vids very helpful.

 

Kind of off topic I suppose. ...but this should give you a better understanding of standing, I hope.

 

 

Edited June 18, 2012 by jaysahnztao