Immortals and their magical powers

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

Does not insight, wisdom / meditation / contemplation - knowledge /awareness lead to anything?

 

 

Buddhism is all about being ok with this process, embracing and giving up and letting it happen. As far as I can tell there are no Buddhist teachings anywhere which deal with ending reincarnation specifically, just some vague promise that if enlightenment is ever attained that reincarnation will stop.

 

It sounds like their version of enlightenment is merely the snuffing out of yang consciousness.

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

Yin = unconscious mind? Yang = conscious mind?

 

 

Yes I believe this is correct.

[eye_of_the_storm]

hmm

 

Well I would like to become the fullness of my total experience and knowing thus far and move/ develop from that... as in the say 10'000 lives I may have lived or am living simultaneously into 1

 

as opposed to this cycle of forgetfulness... though something must accumulate otherwise nothing would progress... so the unconscious yin must in a subtle way drive/compel the conscious mind or yang?

 

I am not sure about making the me here now immortal... I'm not even sure there is a me here now...solid... you can never step into the same river twice kind of thing... I want to remember where I came from

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

Why isnt observation considered active? to observe is an active thing... which would be a yang attribute... to observe is to see... to see is to react/respond... you say passive observation, is there such a thing... one can choose how one sees?

 

Think of it like a camera, light enters the lens and is directed towards the film, where it exposes parts of the film that photons hit. This is all a passive process for the camera. At least this is my understanding.

 

Observation and memory will continue past death, ego, identity, emotion, willpower, active thought processes will not.

 

Spirits can be given some yang energy from living beings while they are in a deep trance state, to allow them to interact in a limited fashion, maybe with enough yang energy they can regain some human attributes temporarily.

[eye_of_the_storm]

I thought Yin and Yang = mutual arising interdependence / intertwined... even in the symbol the yin is within the yang and the yang within the yin... how to fuse that which is already inseparable

[Thunder_Gooch]

I thought Yin and Yang = mutual arising interdependence / intertwined... even in the symbol the yin is within the yang and the yang within the yin... how to fuse that which is already inseparable

 

Well it's more like hot and cold, even something we think of as cold is still hot relative to absolute zero, and something we think of as hot is still cold compared to the surface of the sun.

 

So it's all relative, to your perspective.

 

You can heat water and turn it to steam, and you can cool steam and condense it to water.

 

 

An internal combustion engine will only keep running so long as it has fuel, and air to fuse together to release energy to propel itself forward.

 

I wouldn't say fuel and air are inseparable, as is obvious to anyone who has run out of gas.

 

The yin spirit 99.9999% of people leave behind, as I understand it, is a car that isn't completely built yet, and has no gasoline at all to even try to move if it wanted to.

Edited August 22, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[Thunder_Gooch]

If all this troubles you here is some more info that might help:

 

 

 

“Yes,” he said. “I see. Sifu, what about what we are told about the afterlife—heaven and hell, reincarnation, that sort of thing?”

 

He was silent for a very long time and I thought that I had offended him. Finally he spoke. “I don’t know,” he said.

 

“But you have seen so many spirits, spoken with your Master after he died, and. . . .”

 

“I didn’t say that I haven’t had experience with life after death,” he interrupted. “What I said is that I don’t know what the final state of the afterlife is like.”

 

John lit up a cigarette. “I will tell you what I do know,” he said. “There appears to be an intermediate state between this life and the next. I call it the white wave and the black wave. The spirits of those who have been good in their lives go into the white wave, those that have been evil into the black wave.

 

It is very much like the concepts of heaven and hell except for one thing—neither condition is permanent. At some point all spirits shoot straight up to God.

 

What happens to them at that point, I don’t know. It depends on whom you ask, I suppose.”

 

“You mean to say that there is a heaven and a hell?” I asked, astonished.

 

“That’s not what I said, is it? I said that there seems to be an area characterized by a field of white yin energy into which the spirits with a positive karma enter. There they are given all that they desire, and they do desire. I have entered into the white field; people were gathered around celebrating, eating and drinking, only there was no food really present. It is all an illusion for their benefit; they just think that they are eating and drinking. Maybe they have to enjoy what they were denied in life in order to go on, I don’t know.

 

Perhaps they think that they are still human.” “But they are not?”

 

“No. The mental and emotional perspectives of the average spirit are very different from those of a human being.”

 

“But not your Master’s. He looked and sounded the same dead as he did alive.”

 

“Yes. A spirit with even a little yang energy is very different. A spirit like my Master retains all its human characteristics.”

 

I thought about the classic lines from the Tao Te Ching, lines that had caused so much controversy among scholars in the past: Those who retain their center endure. Those who die but continue to exist are immortal. Their meaning was clear to me at that moment. According to Taoist thought, to continue being human after death, you had to bring some of your yang energy with you. Was the “center” that the Lao Tzu referred to the dantien, which filled up with yang energy in Level One? And according to Chang Sifu, to remain completely human after death, you had to bring all your yang energy with you—that is to say, to complete Level Four. Like Liao Sifu. Like my Master.

 

A shudder ran through me. Was evolution at play here? Was humanity no more than the breeding ground for higher spirits? I thought about how an embryo came into being: Out of millions of sperm only one became a baby. Was this the case for us also, that from a million humans only one was destined to become a hsien? And was it for entities of this sort that all the fuss was about? Or were we evolving as a species to the point where all of us could live on without our physical bodies? I desperately wanted to change the subject, but there was no dodging the issue. I thought about the metaphysical “waves” of reward and penance John had spoken of. Concepts such as heaven and hell, the Elysian Fields and Hades, were as old as the human race. Were they real?

 

“And what about the black wave?” I asked.

 

“If you ever reach Level Four, remember that I said never to go into the black if you can help it. It is not a pleasant place. The spirits there desire, they hurt, they cry, and are denied everything; it is pitch dark, you cannot see a thing. The only good point about the black wave is that it does not last forever; after a time those spirits are freed, when their karma has been fulfilled.” “Sifu, what is karma?” “The consequence of their actions, thoughts, emotions, and desires—of their lives, if you want.” It was getting to be too much, too anthropomorphic for me to swallow, like something out of ancient mythology, or the most esoteric beliefs of the world’s major religions. He seemed to guess my thoughts. “I don’t have any final answers for you, Kosta, no dogma to respond to the questions people have about their existence. I can only tell you what I have seen; you can choose to believe me or not. Consider me a metaphysical scientist.

 

 

 

He looked puzzled. “I have already described the black wave and the white wave to you,” he said. “Yes, and you said that neither condition was permanent, that after a time all spirits went up to God.” “Yes.” “So what happens next? Do we reincarnate? Do we live only one life? Do we cease to exist? What’s the story?”

 

“I have already told you that I don’t know.” “But. . . .” “He never answered that question.” John pulled out a cigarette, lit it up, and leaned back. “I can tell you what I myself, as an individual, believe. This is not something that I teach; I have students who are Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, skeptics like yourself, and more. Neikung has no basis in religious theory. If you want my own opinions, you are welcome to them, but remember, they are nothing more than my own opinions.” “Okay.” “I believe that it is logical for reincarnation to exist, since God is very just and very fair. Why should someone suffer for something that they haven’t done? Why should one man be born a cripple and another with everything? It doesn’t seem fair or even logical. So either the universe is unjust or, if you believe in a just God, then He has planned for justice in our lives. So I believe in reincarnation.”

 

The Magus of Java: Teachings of an Authentic Taoist Immortal (p. 53, 126).

[RyanO]

Interesting MPG. My question I've been pondering is, what is the use of retaining your humanity after you die? I mean in an ultimate sense. Sure it sounds preferable, but is there a higher purpose beyond 'selfish' reasons?

 

I'm also trying to figure out what exactly it means, since we are not who we think we are anyway. What is this 'human self' that survives. It seems like we would become radically different to the point where we wouldn't be the same entity. The only thing that seem to link us to our human self would be our memories. But amnesia has been shown to be a biological issue, so with brain death, wouldn't memories cease as well?

 

Still surfing the wave between science and spirituality...

[Thunder_Gooch]

Interesting MPG. My question I've been pondering is, what is the use of retaining your humanity after you die? I mean in an ultimate sense. Sure it sounds preferable, but is there a higher purpose beyond 'selfish' reasons?

 

I'm also trying to figure out what exactly it means, since we are not who we think we are anyway. What is this 'human self' that survives. It seems like we would become radically different to the point where we wouldn't be the same entity. The only thing that seem to link us to our human self would be our memories. But amnesia has been shown to be a biological issue, so with brain death, wouldn't memories cease as well?

 

Still surfing the wave between science and spirituality...

 

For me it is in hopes of preventing rebirth. There may be infinite pain and infinite pleasure awaiting infinite future lives, but really for me I'm done with it. I want out.

[RyanO]

For me it is in hopes of preventing rebirth. There may be infinite pain and infinite pleasure awaiting infinite future lives, but really for me I'm done with it. I want out.

 

Interesting then that you view Buddhist enlightenment the way you do, as that seems a more direct path to "getting off the wheel" than immortality. Not that I think it's any better, just different.

 

What do you think the difference is between 'snuffing out the yang shen' and fusing yin and yang shens? According to your goals, why do you prefer the latter?

[zerostao]

Yes I believe this is correct.

mpg , these are insights of yours obtained from your qigong and meditation experience?

or from what you have read from books?

it is true that in every age, philosophers and scientists have used the prevailing technologies of their time as analogy to describe

what is going on.

the watchmaker analogy, the i am machine idea, we are magnetic ink, or some computer/program, or we are in some simulator, and now this analogy using information to capture layman's imaginations.we are in the so called information age. some use the car has fuel/has no fuel analogy.analogies are useful for a conceptual perspective but they are not giving the true view.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Interesting then that you view Buddhist enlightenment the way you do, as that seems a more direct path to "getting off the wheel" than immortality. Not that I think it's any better, just different.

 

What do you think the difference is between 'snuffing out the yang shen' and fusing yin and yang shens? According to your goals, why do you prefer the latter?

 

 

If there are Buddhist teachings which deal with ending rebirth I have found no information on them. Maybe something like Phowa from the yogas of naropa but I don't have instruction on that, and unsure if it is a valid teaching even if I did.

 

Mostly it seems to me Buddhism is a philosophy that helps make people be ok with the situation they are in rather than try to do something about it. It's a big give up and embrace your fate sort of thing, and I dislike that a lot.

 

I don't think moving into your yin consciousness will prevent rebirth, I think that is what most people call enlightenment in a Buddhist sense. It might help prevent psychological suffering in this lifetime, and it might help improve chances of a better life next go around via good karma, but ultimately it I think it's a futile and pointless endeavor leading to no real gain or advantage in the long run if ending rebirth is the end goal.

[Thunder_Gooch]

mpg , these are insights of yours obtained from your qigong and meditation experience?

or from what you have read from books?

it is true that in every age, philosophers and scientists have used the prevailing technologies of their time as analogy to describe

what is going on.

the watchmaker analogy, the i am machine idea, we are magnetic ink, or some computer/program, or we are in some simulator, and now this analogy using information to capture layman's imaginations.we are in the so called information age. some use the car has fuel/has no fuel analogy.analogies are useful for a conceptual perspective but they are not giving the true view.

 

Most of them are my own, the bits I quoted from the magus of Java are not. I believe his observations are accurate though based on my own experiences in meditation.

 

I believe this is some sort of simulation, based on my own experiences. I don't know exactly what it is or its purpose however.

 

An experience I had once, when I was meditating daily: I was at a doctors office and remarked to the nurse how old I was getting, she looked at me and kept laughing this loud obnoxious laugh, and she looked at me all crazy eyed and said "Your still a baby", and kept cackling as I walked out even.

 

This sort of stuck with me, I wonder if right now we are unborn beings in an intermediate realm of sorts, waiting to be born, just a simulation to keep us occupied.

 

I don't really know to be honest.

Edited August 22, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[zerostao]

@Ryan

"Still surfing the wave between science and spirituality"

cool

[Fū Yue]

If there are Buddhist teachings which deal with ending rebirth I have found no information on them. Maybe something like Phowa from the yogas of naropa but I don't have instruction on that, and unsure if it is a valid teaching even if I did.

 

Mostly it seems to me Buddhism is a philosophy that helps make people be ok with the situation they are in rather than try to do something about it. It's a big give up and embrace your fate sort of thing, and I dislike that a lot.

 

I don't think moving into your yin consciousness will prevent rebirth, I think that is what most people call enlightenment in a Buddhist sense. It might help prevent psychological suffering in this lifetime, and it might help improve chances of a better life next go around via good karma, but ultimately it I think it's a futile and pointless endeavor leading to no real gain or advantage in the long run if ending rebirth is the end goal.

 

The 'end goal' of all the Buddha's practices on enlightenment is the ending of the transmigrating mind, rebirth. Tummo, illusory body yoga, dream yoga, mahamudra et al. can all be used to reach the point where the 'ground of all phenomena' can be breached and liberation attained. Most, if not all, of them have the very same roots as the Taoist methods which are in turn deeply related to the Indian and Egyptian methods, all the way back through time and cultural mythology, stretching across the whole world.

[Thunder_Gooch]

The 'end goal' of all the Buddha's practices on enlightenment is the ending of the transmigrating mind, rebirth. Tummo, illusory body yoga, dream yoga, mahamudra et al. can all be used to reach the point where the 'ground of all phenomena' can be breached and liberation attained. Most, if not all, of them have the very same roots as the Taoist methods which are in turn deeply related to the Indian and Egyptian methods, all the way back through time and cultural mythology, stretching across the whole world.

 

I've found no clear instruction for any of them anywhere, tummo was the only practice I was able to find a small amount of training info on.

[Fū Yue]

I've found no clear instruction for any of them anywhere, tummo was the only practice I was able to find a small amount of training info on.

 

The true lineage of the Buddha is all wrapped up and hidden in dogma and tradition. Generally if you were to ask someone practicing such things, you would only receive a message like 'find a teacher' or 'get an empowerment', right? The archetypal Buddha himself though, considered all beings his children and did not discriminate between 'insiders' and 'outsiders', so these practices are much more open than people would like to admit or acknowledge.

 

Actually, the symbolism used by the monks is a practice manual in and of itself, mandalas and all. Thus facing the Buddhas themselves in concentration and contemplation has very powerful influence in purifying perception and 'seeing' the practice intuitively.The figures of mythology and their battles are reflections of inner and outer alchemy, and in application the truth shines.

 

I would say that the articles written by deci belle in the Contributed section of the forum are a very very good read, if you decide to study the Buddha's method. His original teachings were very frank and cut to the very heart of the matter... the infinite potential of being and it's role in releasing conditioned consciousness from itself, completely sidestepping the energies and movements of the manifest. Calm abiding, Anapasati, the Jnanas and such. All of the later teachings do largely deal with the same topic but in a slightly different, perhaps more (or less) 'traditional way each time. Vajrayana is very eclectic in this regard. There's lots of good info about it all on scribd and the standard dharma is probably everywhere on the internet now.

 

In any case, and on a different note, time must stop moving forever in order to leave rebirth behind. Sublimating the primal desire of the universe is necessary in order to quench the thirst of all potential and actualized incarnations of yourself right now by becoming as pure freedom, the unfettered unborn. You have to re-assimilate the senses and the consciousness which sent them out, thus becoming liberated from biologic and free from the endlessly refracting sound of circles within circles. This is the basis of the illusory body yogas found in many traditions, in my opinion.

 

Hopefully that was at least interesting to read.

[zerostao]

The true lineage of the Buddha is all wrapped up and hidden in dogma and tradition. Generally if you were to ask someone practicing such things, you would only receive a message like 'find a teacher' or 'get an empowerment', right? The archetypal Buddha himself though, considered all beings his children and did not discriminate between 'insiders' and 'outsiders', so these practices are much more open than people would like to admit or acknowledge.

 

Actually, the symbolism used by the monks is a practice manual in and of itself, mandalas and all. Thus facing the Buddhas themselves in concentration and contemplation has very powerful influence in purifying perception and 'seeing' the practice intuitively.The figures of mythology and their battles are reflections of inner and outer alchemy, and in application the truth shines.

 

I would say that the articles written by deci belle in the Contributed section of the forum are a very very good read, if you decide to study the Buddha's method. His original teachings were very frank and cut to the very heart of the matter... the infinite potential of being and it's role in releasing conditioned consciousness from itself, completely sidestepping the energies and movements of the manifest. Calm abiding, Anapasati, the Jnanas and such. All of the later teachings do largely deal with the same topic but in a slightly different, perhaps more (or less) 'traditional way each time. Vajrayana is very eclectic in this regard. There's lots of good info about it all on scribd and the standard dharma is probably everywhere on the internet now.

 

In any case, and on a different note, time must stop moving forever in order to leave rebirth behind. Sublimating the primal desire of the universe is necessary in order to quench the thirst of all potential and actualized incarnations of yourself right now by becoming as pure freedom, the unfettered unborn. You have to re-assimilate the senses and the consciousness which sent them out, thus becoming liberated from biologic and free from the endlessly refracting sound of circles within circles. This is the basis of the illusory body yogas found in many traditions, in my opinion.

 

Hopefully that was at least interesting to read.

 

yep, thanks fu yue

[Thunder_Gooch]

The true lineage of the Buddha is all wrapped up and hidden in dogma and tradition. Generally if you were to ask someone practicing such things, you would only receive a message like 'find a teacher' or 'get an empowerment', right? The archetypal Buddha himself though, considered all beings his children and did not discriminate between 'insiders' and 'outsiders', so these practices are much more open than people would like to admit or acknowledge.

 

Actually, the symbolism used by the monks is a practice manual in and of itself, mandalas and all. Thus facing the Buddhas themselves in concentration and contemplation has very powerful influence in purifying perception and 'seeing' the practice intuitively.The figures of mythology and their battles are reflections of inner and outer alchemy, and in application the truth shines.

 

I would say that the articles written by deci belle in the Contributed section of the forum are a very very good read, if you decide to study the Buddha's method. His original teachings were very frank and cut to the very heart of the matter... the infinite potential of being and it's role in releasing conditioned consciousness from itself, completely sidestepping the energies and movements of the manifest. Calm abiding, Anapasati, the Jnanas and such. All of the later teachings do largely deal with the same topic but in a slightly different, perhaps more (or less) 'traditional way each time. Vajrayana is very eclectic in this regard. There's lots of good info about it all on scribd and the standard dharma is probably everywhere on the internet now.

 

In any case, and on a different note, time must stop moving forever in order to leave rebirth behind. Sublimating the primal desire of the universe is necessary in order to quench the thirst of all potential and actualized incarnations of yourself right now by becoming as pure freedom, the unfettered unborn. You have to re-assimilate the senses and the consciousness which sent them out, thus becoming liberated from biologic and free from the endlessly refracting sound of circles within circles. This is the basis of the illusory body yogas found in many traditions, in my opinion.

 

Hopefully that was at least interesting to read.

 

I still haven't found any clear instruction, Daniel Ingrams book was about as no BS of a book on Buddhist practice as I've found, but even then I question what is the point, it seems these practices produce realization in this life, but when this life ends rebirth still continues. If Buddha did teach how to end rebirth that practice is lost or at least kept secret, from lay people.

[Fū Yue]

I still haven't found any clear instruction, Daniel Ingrams book was about as no BS of a book on Buddhist practice as I've found, but even then I question what is the point, it seems these practices produce realization in this life, but when this life ends rebirth still continues. If Buddha did teach how to end rebirth that practice is lost or at least kept secret, from lay people.

 

You will not find any clear instruction on how to 'end rebirth', because the final life to be lived is that of a Buddha or an Immortal, though an immortal never 'ends' while a Buddha never 'begins'. Thus you will see practices aimed at 'Buddhahood' and not specifically ending rebirth, which is really just 'Buddhist-speak' for 'He's done with this crap and he's not here anymore, but his power remains forever active by his sheer accomplishment in space-time, forever altering the structure of reality as we know it'. Becoming the inevitable conclusion of all possible life is achieving the singular goal of that which continually subjects itself to rebirth in the first place, which is really Buddha-nature . In truly 'realizing' the Buddha as yourself, everything which you could have ever become is burned away. There are no more doubts or uncertainties which would cause you to ask the question, 'What am I?' and so spark the flame of restlessness which causes rebirth, because what was seen can not ever be unseen, seared into your awareness by the mind annihilating clear light of the moment it is then seen everywhere and it's truth unavoidable. The remnants of desire are slain sacrifices to the wrathful deities.

 

This is why they call the Vajrayana the 'lightning vehicle'. The practices are really the same as generating the 'body of Ra' or 'birthing the spiritual fetus' or even 'Zeus overthrowing Chronos' or the Celtic 'Ragnarok'. All the practices are the same, though the end goal may appear to be different at first glance, and in knowing the underlying mechanisms of the universe, utilized by the Sages, the Way is as clear as the Obstacle.

 

It is all really just about getting you to fully and vividly light up your own universal hologram, completing the real human body, the universe as a whole, which is the end of duality (light within light, no more unconsciousness). This they call 'stream entry', and creating a third force - a true will, 'holy spirit', which is, as Taomeow said in a post I read a long time ago, 'darkness within darkness'. This they call 'No-Self'. Then you must give up your hard-earned golden self to pure nothing, absolute poverty, the ever-hungry core of existence, and in doing so satisfy it with the only thing that could ever be, other than it - You. True selflessness. The circle of life has been completed in the grandest sense that could ever be possible in any way, it is no longer a circle but a single sun of absolute genius blazing it's mark, redefining being completely in just a single moment which lasts only as long as a blast of lightning in a storm that never was.

 

Essentially, to become the Buddha you must sacrifice everything to gain nothing, and you must do it without sacrificing anything, for death has no dominion. This is why virtue is a seen as a requirement, and why all of the Buddhist lamas stress accumulating merit and being inoffensive in life. It is a truly harrowing task and we need all the help we can get!

 

That's my view on 'Buddhist enlightenment'. As to methods, make use of any and all tools possible and whatever is necessary, that's skillful means. Make every day you wake up your last, attaining buddhahood as you go to sleep at night. Kill doubt through unbend-able willpower born of every-day, raw awareness. The real magic is the miracle of the moment as it is - without thought-clothes or appearance-jewelry, completely naked.

[zerostao]

not trying to go too off topic. but as some things are never gonna be alowed to be translated into english,

somethings were never written down at all even in chinese ever and can only be passed oin person to person

and face to face.

so some things you just aint gonna find in any book or manuscript.or on dvd.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Thank you for your posts MPG, Fu Yue and Zerostao! + Others! not present on this page... hah

 

Excellent read thus far

Edited August 23, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Jeff]

You will not find any clear instruction on how to 'end rebirth', because the final life to be lived is that of a Buddha or an Immortal, though an immortal never 'ends' while a Buddha never 'begins'. Thus you will see practices aimed at 'Buddhahood' and not specifically ending rebirth, which is really just 'Buddhist-speak' for 'He's done with this crap and he's not here anymore, but his power remains forever active by his sheer accomplishment in space-time, forever altering the structure of reality as we know it'. Becoming the inevitable conclusion of all possible life is achieving the singular goal of that which continually subjects itself to rebirth in the first place, which is really Buddha-nature . In truly 'realizing' the Buddha as yourself, everything which you could have ever become is burned away. There are no more doubts or uncertainties which would cause you to ask the question, 'What am I?' and so spark the flame of restlessness which causes rebirth, because what was seen can not ever be unseen, seared into your awareness by the mind annihilating clear light of the moment it is then seen everywhere and it's truth unavoidable. The remnants of desire are slain sacrifices to the wrathful deities.

This is why they call the Vajrayana the 'lightning vehicle'. The practices are really the same as generating the 'body of Ra' or 'birthing the spiritual fetus' or even 'Zeus overthrowing Chronos' or the Celtic 'Ragnarok'. All the practices are the same, though the end goal may appear to be different at first glance, and in knowing the underlying mechanisms of the universe, utilized by the Sages, the Way is as clear as the Obstacle.

It is all really just about getting you to fully and vividly light up your own universal hologram, completing the real human body, the universe as a whole, which is the end of duality (light within light, no more unconsciousness). This they call 'stream entry', and creating a third force - a true will, 'holy spirit', which is, as Taomeow said in a post I read a long time ago, 'darkness within darkness'. This they call 'No-Self'. Then you must give up your hard-earned golden self to pure nothing, absolute poverty, the ever-hungry core of existence, and in doing so satisfy it with the only thing that could ever be, other than it - You. True selflessness. The circle of life has been completed in the grandest sense that could ever be possible in any way, it is no longer a circle but a single sun of absolute genius blazing it's mark, redefining being completely in just a single moment which lasts only as long as a blast of lightning in a storm that never was.

Essentially, to become the Buddha you must sacrifice everything to gain nothing, and you must do it without sacrificing anything, for death has no dominion. This is why virtue is a seen as a requirement, and why all of the Buddhist lamas stress accumulating merit and being inoffensive in life. It is a truly harrowing task and we need all the help we can get!

That's my view on 'Buddhist enlightenment'. As to methods, make use of any and all tools possible and whatever is necessary, that's skillful means. Make every day you wake up your last, attaining buddhahood as you go to sleep at night. Kill doubt through unbend-able willpower born of every-day, raw awareness. The real magic is the miracle of the moment as it is - without thought-clothes or appearance-jewelry, completely naked.

 

Beautifully said. Worth repeating again...

 

:-)

[Aetherous]

When talking about whether you will keep rebirthing or not, consider the state of your mind...

 

Do you think about the future (afterlife) or the past (how much this life has sucked)?

Are you able to stop going back and forth, and just exist in the present moment only, for extended periods?

 

Is your mind constantly chattering about this or that?

Are you able to silence your mind, and exist in the silence of the present moment for extended periods?

 

Are you attached to the 5 senses?

Are you able to detach from the world, in meditation, for extended periods of present moment stillness devoid of the senses?

 

Are you experiencing the results of negativity and not so virtuous living?

Are you able to be absolutely virtuous, even in the face of negativity, so that your life flows smoothly and easily most of the time?

 

Do you constantly battle with your self, and wish for an end to your self existence?

Are you able to let the sense of self be as it is, and exist free of it; are you able to distinguish what you ultimately are and are not and live as such?

 

The way I see things, you have to completely pacify the mind if you want any chance at ending rebirth (for those who believe in such things). The first step hasn't even been taken...after that it's still a long walk. Buddhists speak of 4 levels of enlightenment...at the final level, after this life you are absolutely gone. That is the only way "out", as far as I know.

 

Phowa is opening the crown so the spirit can leave that way...but, wherever you go, there you are. It's not liberation. I think this is what they were referring to when they said Buddhists simply become yin ghosts after death.

 

Taoist immortality is like making yourself into a stronger spirit. This also opens the crown like in Phowa. There is so much about Taoism and immortality that we don't know, or is at least for me, impossible to discuss. Buddhism on the other hand is well laid out...so many books on the subject.

[Starjumper]

The stuff that John Chang does takes enormous amount of time, and what do you get in the end?

 

Bliss