Why is Chi Kung Practitioners are healthier and stronger breathing the same air....?

[Informer]

That's not the chi I mean, it's like an endorphine release or something comes from the brain and crown area and travels through the entire energy body/nervous system.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Informer

[astralc]

ChiD, interesting question indeed, what I think is that the breath is not the air, it is chi. Chi kung practitioners breath, yes, but the process of breathing is to draw chi into and thru the body, breathing is just a means to another end - chi flow.

[ChiDragon]

astralc...

Welcome back...!!!

 

Have you read this:

Scientific approach in Chi Kung

 

Please read and give me some feedback. Thanks.....

Edited June 25, 2012 by ChiDragon

[astralc]

astralc...

Welcome back...!!!

 

Have you read this:

Scientific approach in Chi Kung

 

Please read and give me some feedback. Thanks.....

 

ChiD, have been flat out, got court on Friday as expert witness so have been busting my butt researching, so will need some time to get through your material, catch ya soonest.

[astralc]

"As I said before, Chi Kung is the ultimate method of breathing. The ultimate goal in Chi Kung is have to ability to perform abdominal breathing. Only abdominal breathing will and can fill the lung to the 100% capacity.

 

Many people do not understand what it meant by "sink chi to the dan tien", 氣沉丹田. First of all, Chi means air or breath by the Chinese definition, not the western definition as 'energy'. Dan tien is just only a descriptive location where the abdominal is. What the Chinese meant by "sink chi to the dan tien", 氣沉丹田, was that when the abdomen was fully expanded during inhalation. We all knew that the breath does not get into the abdomen but only in the lungs.

 

What is happening in the abdominal breathing...???

Under the condition of abdominal breathing, the diaphragm will be flattened allowing the lungs to expand more downward to increase its volume. Thus more air can be filled in the lung. That is why it was called abdominal breathing or "sink chi to the dan tien"; 氣沉丹田."

 

ChiD, back on track, so air is not chi, OK I can get that, but it's also not ATP's, so, what is it? I think of it as nerve energy, but then, ATP's are necessary for nerve impulses so they must be added to the mix. I am glad you briefly discussed the dan tien and abdominal breathing, it is central to all our chi work, is not the dan tien the major generator of power in TCM? - JMHO.

 

I studied biology when I was studying as a food technician, but that was almost 30 years ago, I have forgotten almost everything about it, since moving to psychology I am lucky to even know anything at all

Edited July 2, 2012 by astralc

[ChiDragon]

ChiD, back on track, so air is not chi, OK I can get that, but it's also not ATP's, so, what is it? I think of it as nerve energy, but then, ATP's are necessary for nerve impulses so they must be added to the mix. I am glad you briefly discussed the dan tien and abdominal breathing, it is central to all our chi work, is not the dan tien the major generator of power in TCM? - JMHO.

 

I studied biology when I was studying as a food technician, but that was almost 30 years ago, I have forgotten almost everything about it, since moving to psychology I am lucky to even know anything at all

 

Chi is a very peculiar character in the Chinese language. We have to be very careful how to interpret it. In a phrase, we must interpret it within context from inside out rather than outside in.

 

In Chi Kung, Chi is 'air' or 'breathing'.

In TCM, Chi is the essential substance of the body or the universe or the functional activities of the internal organs.

In biochemistry, ATP is Chi which is energy.

 

If we go from outside in by assuming that Chi is 'energy', then we have lost the whole battle.....

Edited July 24, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Protector]

Chi is the energy that powers intention

 

PEACE OUT!!!

[ChiDragon]

Chi is the energy that powers intention

 

PEACE OUT!!!

 

Chi is a very peculiar character in the Chinese language. We have to be very careful how to interpret it. In a phrase, we must interpret it within context from inside out rather than outside in.

 

Actually, it would be meaningless without context.

[ChiDragon]

If we are allowed to speculate, I think many people could be noticing their blood flowing in their veins and calling it chi. Like you you intentionally hyper-ventalite (which increases oxygen in your blood), you start to feel more chi?

 

The oxygenated blood flows in the arteries not in the veins. FYI The blood in the veins is full of carbon dioxide, CO2, returning the heart to send to the lungs to be released by exhalation.

 

Yes, you start to feel more energetic is because the more oxygen which helps to generate more ATP in the cells.

[Protector]

Ki is the energy that powers intention

Whew, that was a close one, good thing I got that all cleared out

 

PEACE OUT!!!

 

 

Also it's not a tangible specific thing but it's distinguishable enough to be called something

I hear one name for chi is pressure, there is air pressure water pressure and all sorts of different pressure, but it's all same in a way that makes them be called pressure

People can make themselves feel warm chi or cold chi and give different feelings to it

Still talking about the same thing

[ChiDragon]

Ki is the energy that powers intention

Whew, that was a close one, good thing I got that all cleared out

 

PEACE OUT!!!

 

 

Also it's not a tangible specific thing but it's distinguishable enough to be called something

I hear one name for chi is pressure, there is air pressure water pressure and all sorts of different pressure, but it's all same in a way that makes them be called pressure

People can make themselves feel warm chi or cold chi and give different feelings to it

Still talking about the same thing

 

The character 氣(chi) alone does not mean pressure. It has to compound with another character 壓(ya) to mean pressure.

 

氣壓(chi ya): pressure

 

 

Ki is the energy that powers intention

 

Ki is the Japanese pronunciation for 氣(chi) in Chinese. Actually Ki = Chi.....

[Protector]

ACTUALLY, KI IS KOREAN

Just correcting because I don't know of any crazy place called Japan and any of their tentacle exports

[astralc]

ChiD, but, ATP's are the outcome of a chemical reaction, how can you link chi to it besides as an energy within cells powering the cells to do their job?

 

I was thinking more like in nei gung, where the mind moves the chi. I can feel the chi moving through my body without the breath, just the mind, directing it, now I don't think that this is ATP activity at the cellular level.

 

He he, I think I got you thinking now

[ChiDragon]

No problem....
All the answers are there to be found.

The mitochondria are the production centers for ATP. They do their hardest work inside the brain. As a matter of fact, the brain consumes 20% of the body's oxygen and 50% of the sugars we get from our diet. The brain is unable to store ATP and the mitochondria are unable to share ATP from other mitochondria that exist in other organs. In other words, if the mitochondria in your brain stop producing ATP, the ATP produced by the mitochondria in your heart cannot help out.
Ref: ATP in the brain

Edited March 8, 2013 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

ATP & Brain fog A common part of the CFS experience and that of other neurological illnesses is 'brain fog', which is characterised by difficultly thinking clearly (i.e. difficulty processing, storing and retrieving information). Whilst there may be many mechanisms mediating the expression of brain fog, I personally think one major common mechanism is likely to be altered purinergic signalling, due to low ATP levels. This may be of particular relevance to the increasing brain fog experienced with increasing energy expenditure, as a patient goes out of their 'energy envelope'. In these situations ATP shortage would promote accumulation of the inhibitory ATP derivatives: AMP and adenosine, which would promote cognitive suppression in accordance with the energy-sleep model [3,4,10,11]. I think brain adenosine accumulation may well accompany the already reported lactate increases in CFS [12,13] and also correlate symptoms of brain fog. Notably, the association of CFS with raised CSF lactate probably suggests energy malfunction in CAC (citric acid cycle) and ETC (electron transport chain), which contrasts the age-related energy deficits implied above.

 

Your brain on ATP

[astralc]

Ah, interesting turn here to be looking at the brain, ChiDragon. If I may add some of my research, each brain cell has many mitochondria which produce ATP's to power and run the cell activities. These mitochondria require certain components to function efficiently, namely iodine and thyroid hormone. Interestingly, the mitochondria have special receptors for thyroid hormone, namely T3 which is the active principal hormone.

 

If a person is unwell the thyroid produces a hormone called Reverse T3 (RT3), which is like the left handed shape of the active right handed T3. This inactive RT3 will sit in the same receptor reserved for the active T3, and do nothing, it does not power the cells at all, which is what the active T3 usually does.

 

We see mammals who hibernate, produce massive amounts of RT3 prior to hibernating, it shuts down the ATP production in the mitochondria putting the animal to sleep. In humans if we produce too much RT3 we feel groggy, sleepy and very unwell, we are basically starting to enter hibernation. We see RT3 produced when people get sick, it slows us down to make us sleep to recover. But it also makes life terrible for sufferers who just get sicker and sicker instead of falling into a hibernation state.

 

The Mitochondria also have special receptors for iodine, however, with so much iodine deficiency in the world (and even in 1st world countries) these receptors do not fill, there is not enough iodine in the blood to fill every mitochonrial receptor, thus the mitochondria die off, Mitochondrial Disease, or called something like that.

 

These receptors also have the problem in that they will allow the toxic halides to sit in the iodine site. Thus we get fluoride, chlorine and bromine taking iodine's place. These are toxic and make us crook. They also give us, 'Brain Fag'. One way to reduce brain fag is to up our iodine intake, thus eventually we detox our cells and clear our head.

 

So, in terms of mental health, my field, a healthy thyroid is essential - however, an unhealthy thyroid is implicated in Bipolar disorder and schizophrenia, plus all the anxiety and depression disorders. Poor thyroid function is one of the first things I ask my patients to get checked, and many will have low thyroid, hypothyroid. Fix that and most of their symptoms disappear.

[astralc]

CFS, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, is one of the hardest disorders to treat, it also contributes to their mental health decline in a big way. Again Thyroid can be involved, but I have found that the main cause of CFS is Glandular Fever, Mononucleosis, a very nasty virus that attacks the nervous system, primarily the CNS, the brain. Scans show it causes lesions to develop in the lower brain, at the back of the head. Other contributors are Ross River Virus, Brahman Virus, etc. many of the mosquito born virus's can contribute to this.

 

This will of course contribute to the mitochondria performing less efficiently than it should severely interfering with brain function.

 

OK, end of science lecture and back to work

[Brian]

Here's an alternate rabbit-hole, ChiDragon -- abdominal (and especially sacral) breathing has a pumping effect on spinal fluid, thereby increasing the rate of circulation through cord & cranium...

[ChiDragon]

Here's an alternate rabbit-hole, ChiDragon -- abdominal (and especially sacral) breathing has a pumping effect on spinal fluid, thereby increasing the rate of circulation through cord & cranium...

Thanks. I have found the source to back up your claim. I will add the info to my mental department...

 

Ref: Abdominal Breathing

You know, this process is not something that should be thought out and it is intended to be automatic, BUT our lifestyles, posture, stress levels all affect our breathing. We were not intended to carry our stresses with us throughout the day either, but life happens. Your breath is something to be mindful of. I encourage you all to take at least 100 thoughtful deep abdominal breathes throughout the day. This deep abdominal breathing (as nature intended) promotes healthy circulation (with blood, spinal fluid, and oxygen) throughout the body, it encourages you to maintain proper posture, increases digestion, and as a residual effect it can help de-stress your daily tasks.

 

Edited July 3, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Brian]

Thanks. I have found the source to back up your claim. I will add the info to my mental department...

 

Ref: Abdominal Breathing

 

See if you can learn about experiments to find out what happens when a person's skull is phyiscally/mechanically prevented from expanding for a little while...

 

[Seekerofallthatislight]

That still did not answer my question....

The art of breathing relaxes the body. By relaxing the body you may open your channels for qi to flow more readily and easily.

 

When you are relaxed you may gather the qi inside of you. Pool it. Focus it.

When I breathe I breathe through the stomach first and slowly both the stomach and chest in one breath. I fill my entire being as I breathe and also fill my entire being full of qi. When I exhale, I do out of both chest and stomach simultaneously, thus relaxing my body, willing it to be calm and comfortable. There the channels will open for you. Your energy shall flow there. In a state of peace, happiness, goodness.

 

I have noticed that thinking of your love for someone will also increase your ability to channel qi as love is the purest of emotions and all energy is attracted by the code of the universe through this. Think of stroking his/her hair, telling them you love them. Fill your being with goodness and kindness and you will fill yourself with much more positive qi than if you had just breathed.

 

The culmination of qi and health are done on all Spiritual, Physical, Mental, Astral and Etheric planes. There is more as well, but these are the ones I find most useful.

 

I hope I have helped.

Amen.

[teknix]

I like this thread as a good example to think about phenomena rationally.