This is a good Tutorial Relates to Chi Kung

[ChiDragon]

If we understand the Cellular Respiration Theory, it will help us to clear the mist about Chi Kung and how the practitioners build up their energy for a healthier body.

 

Edited June 25, 2012 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

Ref-1: Lactic acid

1. Pyruvate or Pyruvic acid is the end product of the anaerobic portion of glycolysis. If the cell has enough oxygen to run aerobic respiration then pyruvate is converted into acetyl-CoA and carbon dioxide byt eh enzyme pyruvate carboxylase.

 

2. If there isn't enough oxygen in the cell, then pyruvate is converted to lactic acid in order to free up some of the required reactants(NAD+). This allows anaerobic glycolysis to continue.

 

 

Ref-2: Latcate threshold

The lactate threshold is a point during exhaustive, all-out exercise at which lactate builds up in the blood stream faster than the body can remove it. Anaerobic metabolism produces energy for short, high-intensity bursts of activity (lasting no more than a few minutes) before the lactate build-up reaches a threshold where it can no longer be absorbed and, therefore, accumulates. This point is known as the lactate threshold and is usually reached between 50 to 80% of an athlete's VO2 max.

 

During moderate exercise the lactate can be absorbed quickly, but with high-intensity exercise it is produced faster than the body can absorb it.

 

This lactate threshold is marked by a slight drop in pH (from 7.4 to about 7.2) that is thought to and cause fatigue and reduce the power of muscle contractions.

 

At this point the athlete is forced to back off or slow down. Presumably, having a higher lactate threshold means an athlete can continue at a high-intensity effort with a longer time to exhaustion. Because of this, many consider LT a great way to predict athletic performance in high-intensity endurance sports. LT is also used by many athletes to determine training plans.

 

For a Chi Kung practitioner, the pyruvate will not be converted to lactic acid because there was no hypoxia condition to reach a lactate threshold level.

[Protector]

The only actual qi gong form, if you can call it that, that I know has a goal of forcing oxygen into blood and organs faster, it's done mostly physically without much visualization

I would like to hear an opinion on doing that

[ChiDragon]

The only actual qi gong form, if you can call it that, that I know has a goal of forcing oxygen into blood and organs faster, it's done mostly physically without much visualization

I would like to hear an opinion on doing that

It was not forcing oxygen into the blood. There was only more oxygen provided to the blood due to the abdominal breathing. The oxygen does not have to go into the organs any faster. It is because the heartbeat is at normal due to the oxygen was not lacking. Visualization has nothing to do with breathing.

Edited June 23, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Informer]

ChiDragon,

 

Have you managed autonomous control of the thymus?

[ChiDragon]

ChiDragon,

 

Have you managed autonomous control of the thymus?

Have you.....???

 

Let's concentrate on breathing and oxygen for now. Then, it will lead to the other things later.

[Informer]

Yes, and pineal gland, pituitary gland, thyroid, solar plexus etc.

 

Do you know how inner fire and inner smile works?

Edited June 23, 2012 by Informer

[ChiDragon]

The only actual qi gong form, if you can call it that, that I know has a goal of forcing oxygen into blood and organs faster, it's done mostly physically without much visualization

I would like to hear an opinion on doing that

 

I would like to put more emphasis on this. We do not and cannot force oxygen into the blood and organs faster. However, we can only provide more oxygen into the body and the body will take care itself internally and maintain in a state of homeostasis. I can say how we can do this and why....!!!

 

When we breathe, we do it externally and internally. The external breathing was done by the respiratory system(RS) which is controllable directly and the internal breathing was by the circulatory system(CS) which is not controllable directly.

 

The body wants to convert all the glucose into energy instead of turning it into lactate or lactic acid. By now, we had learned from Cellular Respiration(CR) that we need lots of oxygen to convert glucose into body energy ATP. Otherwise with the lack of oxygen, which know as hypoxia, the glucose will be turned into lactate or lactic acid.

 

The are two ways that can cause hypoxia. One is breathing problem; and the other is due to strenuous excise but it is recoverable in an hour or two depends on the breathing condition of each individual.

 

PS...

Instead of making each post lengthy and boring, I will post the explanation of the external and internal breathing and their effects separately.

[Informer]

Yeah you guys, he has actual evidence why it does work . . . Not some mystical explanation of belief.

[Protector]

Actually in that form the breath is being held until the final move

Hard to explain without showing and there is no one showing it online

[ChiDragon]

The respiratory system(RS) was provided for External Breathing. External Breathing involves inhalation and exhalation to exchange gas between the body and the outside atmosphere by the lungs. The lung is the main organ in the RS. The ultimate goal in breathing was to fill the lungs to its full capacity when possible.

 

Let's look into what will happen in the condition of hypoxia by comparing the volume of air in the lungs.

 

If a person breathes and only fill the lung by a percentage by volume, we can determine one's health condition.

 

25% of its volume, this person is definitely very very sick.

50% of its volume, this person is in poor health.

75% of its volume, this person is somewhat healthy,

100% of its volume, this person is very healthy and a Chi Kung master.

 

As I said before, Chi Kung is the ultimate method of breathing. The ultimate goal in Chi Kung is have to ability to perform abdominal breathing. Only abdominal breathing will and can fill the lung to the 100% capacity.

 

Many people do not understand what it meant by "sink chi to the dan tien", 氣沉丹田. First of all, Chi means air or breath by the Chinese definition, not the western definition as 'energy'. Dan tien is just only a descriptive location where the abdominal is. What the Chinese meant by "sink chi to the dan tien", 氣沉丹田, was that when the abdomen was fully expanded during inhalation. We all knew that the breath does not get into the abdomen but only in the lungs.

 

What is happening in the abdominal breathing...???

Under the condition of abdominal breathing, the diaphragm will be flattened allowing the lungs to expand more downward to increase its volume. Thus more air can be filled in the lung. That is why it was called abdominal breathing or "sink chi to the dan tien"; 氣沉丹田.

 

One time I was in a Chinese herbal store, I saw a lady with a pale face was waiting to see a Chinese doctor. I walked to her and told her that she has a poor blood circulation. In addition, I told her she needs to practice Chi Kung because she has a breathing problem. Her response was how do I know that she has a breathing problem which she does. The lady owner of the herbal store gave me a dirty look; she was in fear that I might take her customer away.

Edited June 23, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Friend]

If a person breathes and only fill the lung by a percentage by volume, we can determine one's health condition.

 

25% of its volume, this person is definitely very very sick.

50% of its volume, this person is in poor health.

75% of its volume, this person is somewhat healthy,

100% of its volume, this person is very healthy and a Chi Kung master.

 

This looks useful. Master James Lu named his form 5 Elements Breathing and not

5 Elements Qigong and he told that most people only use 1/3 or less of their breathing. Since I exercise this Breathing Form I find that this is true.

And the form is a very advanced to make breath about 4-5 times higher and done as told still 2-3 times higher.

 

As I said before, Chi Kung is the ultimate method of breathing. The ultimate goal in Chi Kung is have to ability to perform abdominal breathing. Only abdominal breathing will and can fill the lung to the 100% capacity.

 

I would prefer you say that you "believe" and not "is".

I do not believe "Abdominal breathing is the ultimate goal" it is for me "a" stepstone- a very small step stone "in econmical use of resources of the human to express the potential a human has"

 

 

Many people do not understand what it meant by "sink chi to the dan tien", 氣沉丹田. First of all, Chi means air or breath by the Chinese definition, not the western definition as 'energy'. Dan tien is just only a descriptive location where the abdominal is. What the Chinese meant by "sink chi to the dan tien", 氣沉丹田, was that when the abdomen was fully expanded during inhalation. We all knew that the breath does not get into the abdomen but only in the lungs.

 

Nah, I practise and one can sink breath, one can sink internal breath, one can sink

heaven qi, one can sink local qi and can even sink sound. Breath is only a small part.

But if you would say getting 100% and expand this 100% then I would like to hear this

since this would be a good base to explore Qi and since one is in a high state of breathing one is familar and would not mistaking Qi for Breath.

 

In the 5 Elements Breathing "one can" build lots of energy in the particular organ

and it is necessary to be able to "sink Qi into the Dantien". For example I can build so much force in the lungs that they pain. And I can dislocate the pressure into the lower dantien without having any pressure in the lungs but the lower Dantien.

 

What is happening in the abdominal breathing...???

Under the condition of abdominal breathing, the diaphragm will be flattened allowing the lungs to expand more downward to increase its volume. Thus more air can be filled in the lung. That is why it was called abdominal breathing or "sink chi to the dan tien"; 氣沉丹田.

Well correctly for those only introduced into breathing. Words with double meaning are to camouflagge the meaning. Hunter X Hunter (Hiatus X Hiatus) author

had a scene where the teacher Wing was telling his future students Gon and Killua the theory of NEN.

He had not lied but result in "moral teaching". Later he told them the real meaning behind the obvious words which result in "princip".

Who knows maybe he is in some sort of japanese Taobums - who know what authors are here in this forum since people need inspiration, I must only mention Kungfu Panda and Avatar- for insiders.

 

Sink "Air" into the lower Dantien and Sink "Energy" into the lower Dantien are two different things which can run togehter but not necessary.

The first one you desribe is easier to aquirre- really easy with Hsin Tao by Ratziel Bandler and the second is an azzhole(how long it took personally) but can be figured out by the Water Path Breathing Method from Bruce Kumar Frantzis lineage.

 

One time I was in a Chinese herbal store, I saw a lady with a pale face was waiting to see a Chinese doctor. I walked to her and told her that she has a poor blood circulation. In addition, I told her she needs to practice Chi Kung because she has a breathing problem. Her response was how do I know that she has a breathing problem which she does. The lady owner of the herbal store gave me a dirty look; she was in fear that I might take her customer away.

good job. Teaching selfresponsibilty is good job."

[ChiDragon]

What is happening in the abdominal breathing...???

Under the condition of abdominal breathing, the diaphragm will be flattened allowing the lungs to expand more downward to increase its volume. Thus more air can be filled in the lung. That is why it was called abdominal breathing or literally was described as "sink chi to the dan tien"; 氣沉丹田. Actually, there was nothing sang in the abdomen or the dan tien but expansion.

 

 

 

PS...

My definition of Chi is 'air' or 'breath', hereinafter, in order to be valid in my discussion. If you are start arguing with the definition as 'energy', then it may be a waste of time. I do meant what I said, it is not wise to change my wording for your own beliefs. Wu Wei, Wu Wei, please.

Edited June 23, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Friend]

What is happening in the abdominal breathing...???

Under the condition of abdominal breathing, the diaphragm will be flattened allowing the lungs to expand more downward to increase its volume. Thus more air can be filled in the lung. That is why it was called abdominal breathing or literally was described as "sink chi to the dan tien"; 氣沉丹田. Actually, there was nothing sang in the abdomen or the dan tien but expansion.

 

This is what the physical body does. Chi is in small potion in the Air.

The lungs are filed and the whole respiration process one can see in the Wiki while energy is seperated from the air and run into the Dantien- if it ever come into the body and if the body is take it down to the Dantien and if the Dantien takes it.

Air do not pass the lungs, energy does.

 

Edit

And even when it is only air. Abdominal breathing gives you 1/5 of breathing and Chest breathing even less. As long the the breath is segmented it will not result in Full Body Breathing and hit 100%.

With abdominal breathing one only get 1/5=100%. 4/5 of the space are left out. When get better in abdominal breathing it is the growth of this 1/5 not of the rest of 4/5.

Edited June 23, 2012 by Friend

[ChiDragon]

The percentages were not the actual numbers, they were used in my scenario for easy understanding. Instead of using numbers to avoid confusion for argument sake, let's say we want to fill the lungs with air to its full capacity when possible.

 

PS...

I don't think that you have followed my concepts from the beginning. Otherwise, you wouldn't be presenting your arguments in such fashion as you are now. Anyway, I haven't gone into the internal breathing yet. Do you think you can hold off your comments before it was done....???

Edited June 23, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Friend]

The percentages were not the actual numbers, they were used in my scenario for easy understanding. Instead of using numbers to avoid confusion for argument sake, let's say we want to fill the lungs with air to its full capacity when possible.

That is understandable

 

PS...

I don't think that you have followed my concepts from the beginning. Otherwise, you wouldn't be presenting your arguments in such fashion as you are now. Anyway, I haven't gone into the internal breathing yet. Do you think you can hold off your comments before it was done....???

 

Oh I can do this from now on - I do practise a lot -a lot of things -read alot of things, watch a lot of things, experiment alot and discover a lot and I expirience enough and with the information I turn them to practise and some results are bitter earned that it is difficult to hold of comments and I do not have the patience from mjbecker or Taomeow yet.

 

I hope you tell then more about the practise part.

Also I hope we hear results from your training.

 

When you say "The ultimate goal in Chi Kung is have to ability to perform abdominal breathing" then this obviously wrong. From what I read, expirience from energy arts view/believe/expirience there are many goals and abdomial breathing is a tool and not the goal. Mostly from what I encountered ,Qigong is done for health, martial arts,sorcery and spiritual development to yield the best possible result one personal can gain in these areas.

[ChiDragon]

The purpose of the Circulatory System(CS) is to circulate blood, in the blood vessels, both the arteries and veins. The heart is the most important organ in the Circulatory System; it pumps blood to bring nourishment and oxygen to the body cells. The blood also remove waste products from the cells such as CO2 and the parts of the dead cells. The cells need oxygen to produce body energy and perform other functions. Literally, the cells are breathing oxygen. Hence, it was called the Internal Breathing or Cellular Respiration.

 

The heart is the most important organ in the Circulatory System. It pumps blood into the lungs to collect oxygen. The amount depends how much oxygen was available in the lung. The availability of oxygen can be control by the Respiratory System externally. If there are more oxygen in the lung, then the blood can collect more. How can we control the amount of oxygen in the lungs directly....??? That is where Chi Kung comes into the picture....!!!

 

How I had taught from whoever, a teacher or book, that breathing should be done as slow as possible in Chi Kung. The abdomen should expand while inhale; and compress while exhale. The ideal breathing rate is four times per minute. The reason for slow breathing was to give ample of time for the red blood cells to collect more oxygen molecules from the lungs for circulation.

 

The heart is the second organ to use the oxygen for cardiac muscle contraction. BTW The lung was the first organ to use the oxygen because it was the first organ come in contact with oxygen. If there was no oxygen provided for the production of ATP in the cardiac muscles, then the cardiac muscles will not and cannot contract to pump blood. As a result, the body cells are suffocated and the body ceases to function completely.

 

Needless to say, according to the Cellular Respiration Theory, each molecule of glucose will produce a maximum number of 36 molecules of ATP for the body to function at its peak. Can you imaging if all the cells produce the maximum number of ATP, do you see how strong your Jin(勁) is or can be...??? Doesn't that encourage us to practice abdominal breathing as a basic requirement for Chi Kung. Is it too shameful to say that Chi Kung is the ultimate method of breathing....???

Edited June 24, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Jetsun]

Nan Huai Chin (who has been recognised as being as master in a number of different Taoist and Buddhist lineages) suggests that the most important aspect of breathing is recognising the significance of what happens in the gap in-between the breath.

[ChiDragon]

I hope no one has to pay for this trivia......

[mYTHmAKER]

Nan Huai Chin (who has been recognised as being as master in a number of different Taoist and Buddhist lineages) suggests that the most important aspect of breathing is recognising the significance of what happens in the gap in-between the breath.

 

right on

it's the space between the breaths that leads to meditation and quiets ones mind

[Jetsun]

I hope no one has to pay for this trivia......

 

In all the lessons you have been trying to give us poor ignorant bums I haven't heard you mention the gaps in-between the breaths at all, the goal not being abdominal breathing as such (although that happens as a byproduct of calming the mind) but to cultivate the natural cellular expansion and contraction which occurs at the lower dan tien when the mind and breath becomes quiet.

 

"As I have said in the last session, a fetus does not breathe through its nose. It therefore does not have the in-and-out breath. Yet, the fetus has a “momentum” that continues to power life through a movement of expansion and contraction. This is the phenomenon of birth-and-death (生滅現象). If we have to use analogy it’s like the current of electricity … remember it’s just an analogy! The phenomenon of birth-and-death is not on-and-off, but continues seamlessly.

 

At birth, as the baby’s umbilical cord is cut and its mouth cleaned, it will first exhale with a crying outburst and then it inhales. From that moment on, the in-and-out breathing continues until the final moment of death and then the person breathes out their last breath. What the Buddhist sutras didn’t elaborate clearly, as was lacking in Tibetan Buddhism and Taoism literature, is this: the fetus does not breathe through the nose or pores; its life is sustained by a continuous movement of expansion and contraction, or how energy functions. The goal is to cultivate that “movement,” not to cultivate the in-and-out of the respiratory breathing. This has to be clear from the outset."

 

- The Anapana Chi Conversations of Master Nan Huai-Chin and Peter Senge

Edited June 25, 2012 by Jetsun

[ChiDragon]

What is Chi...???

 

Scientifically:

Based on the Cellular Respiration theory, a simple formula was derived as:

 

Glucose + Oxygen => H2O + CO2 + heat + energy(ATP)

 

Now, the problem we are having is what is Chi in the formula. Is Chi Oxygen or ATP....???

If we define Chi as a gas, then, Chi is oxygen.

If we define Chi as energy, then, Chi is ATP.

 

 

Based on mythical beliefs:

Most people have this in mind that...

 

Breathing => Air + Chi

 

Chi is energy from thin air.

 

This is where I stand right now....!!!

[spiraltao]

Ref-1: Lactic acid

 

 

 

Ref-2: Latcate threshold

 

 

For a Chi Kung practitioner, the pyruvate will not be converted to lactic acid because there was no hypoxia condition to reach a lactate threshold level.

 

 

While this is not related to taoism or chi gung, I seen this principle at work on an episode of fight science. The test subject was Randy Couture. The scientists monitored Randy's lactic acid build up while he was making his muscles tense and work. The researchers were stunned when they seen that the longer Randy worked his muscles, the longer the time, the LOWER the lactic acid concentration was! The scientists were stunned to see this.

 

I know this post is a bit late, but I felt it worth mentioning.

[spiraltao]

double post sorry

Edited June 27, 2012 by jaysahnztao

[ChiDragon]

While this is not related to taoism or chi gung, I seen this principle at work on an episode of fight science. The test subject was Randy Couture. The scientists monitored Randy's lactic acid build up while he was making his muscles tense and work. The researchers were stunned when they seen that the longer Randy worked his muscles, the longer the time, the LOWER the lactic acid concentration was! The scientists were stunned to see this.

 

I know this post is a bit late, but I felt it worth mentioning.

No, it was not too late as long you are presenting something scientific.

What else did he do besides working on his muscles....???

 

It would help me to give an analysis, if you can tell me how did he work his muscles also.

Edited June 27, 2012 by ChiDragon