Old neigong manual

[YMWong]

For those eventually interested our new issue 6 of JOCMS is now available with the full translation on an early republican era neigong illustrated instructional manual.

 

www.martialstudies.com.hk

 

Best

 

YM

[Friend]

No PDF Version? Would also pay only for the Neigung part the amount.

[Thunder_Gooch]

No PDF Version? Would also pay only for the Neigung part the amount.

 

Does this manual speak of meditation in addition to physical exercises?

[YMWong]

I am afraid we don't sell PDF version of the Journal which is a 140 pages, no advertisement, full-color, printed-only magazine.

 

Neigong always includes practice of both the mind ("meditation") and the body. As a a matter of fact most so-called "martial" neigong are not originally martial in nature, they are usually simply sets which have been introduced to a specific martial curriculum to enhance certain body/mind qualities.

It is the case of this set too, which was introduced by the present manual author (Bao Ding) in his xingyi curriculum after having learned it in the 20s.

 

Most of what is taught, or better to say 'sold', nowadays is not neigong but in fact in the best cases just various forms of qigong.

 

YM

[tumoessence]

For those eventually interested our new issue 6 of JOCMS is now available with the full translation on an early republican era neigong illustrated instructional manual.

 

www.martialstudies.com.hk

 

Best

 

YM

Do you have anything on the Wu family 24 exercise nei gong set in the archived articles?

Edited June 24, 2012 by tumoessence

[YMWong]

Do you have anything on the Wu family 24 exercise nei gong set in the archived articles?

 

No we don't, I am sorry

 

That is another set introduced into Wu style which you can find in other styles/curriculums

 

YM

[tumoessence]

No we don't, I am sorry

 

That is another set introduced into Wu style which you can find in other styles/curriculums

 

YM

Yeah that's what I was thinking. Do you understand it to be a set handed down through taiji lineages or broadly through internal schools and families? Or even "hard" style schools?

[YMWong]

Yeah that's what I was thinking. Do you understand it to be a set handed down through taiji lineages or broadly through internal schools and families? Or even "hard" style schools?

 

The specific set you are talking about only exists in some Wu style schools, so it must have been included at some point in that lineage. I seem to recall that the same practice was passed down by Frank deMaria (not sure about the name) in his shuaijiao curriculum in the US, there was an old video with his performance which was exactly the same as the one in Wu style.

 

More in general, different schools have included existing neigong sets or have created their own.

These are meant to develop some body or mind qualities which can be used in different settings, and of course a martial artist use them to help him/her with his goals

 

YM

[Thunder_Gooch]

Could you quote a sentence or two from the manual that deals with meditation?

[YMWong]

Could you quote a sentence or two from the manual that deals with meditation?

 

What do you mean by 'meditation'?

 

YM

[Thunder_Gooch]

What do you mean by 'meditation'?

 

YM

 

 

Sitting practice, slowing the mind and metabolism, focusing on absorbing energy. Or something similar.

[YMWong]

Sitting practice, slowing the mind and metabolism, focusing on absorbing energy. Or something similar.

 

MPG,

 

"meditation" does not necessarily happen in sitting position and does not necessarily "slows down the mind and metabolism". Even "focusing on absorbing energy" is not necessarily related to "meditation", thou it is usually one of the concerns of neigong.

 

Anyway, here is for you:

 

Dantian is the sea of “qi”(energy), the basis of “qi” practice. If the “qi” energy in your dantian is not full nothing else could be achieved. To practice dantian “qi” the body must be naturally straight, feet parallel at a distance of about four inches. The right hand holds the left hand with both arms stretched out and both hands close to dantian, as in picture 1. Then close your mouth and hold the breath (this “breath” refers to one’s regular breath and not to extra air breathed-in on purpose) for about two minutes. Then raise your head and start to swallow bringing down [saliva/qi] to the dantian with the mind, following with your eyes and head while at the same time bending your knees as in picture 2.

 

Best

 

YM

Edited June 25, 2012 by YMWong

[Thunder_Gooch]

Awesome thanks.

[YMWong]

[宁]

I am afraid we don't sell PDF version of the Journal which is a 140 pages, no advertisement, full-color, printed-only magazine.

 

Neigong always includes practice of both the mind ("meditation") and the body. As a a matter of fact most so-called "martial" neigong are not originally martial in nature, they are usually simply sets which have been introduced to a specific martial curriculum to enhance certain body/mind qualities.

It is the case of this set too, which was introduced by the present manual author (Bao Ding) in his xingyi curriculum after having learned it in the 20s.

 

Most of what is taught, or better to say 'sold', nowadays is not neigong but in fact in the best cases just various forms of qigong.

 

YM

 

Hello YM,

 

could you elaborate a bit on the difference between qigong and neigong? I know qigong is quite a modern term, and these kind of practices were once gathered under the umbrella-term yangsheng. As such, it seems most of them are part of China's popular cultural heritage, however we sometimes see people mentioning various forms of qigong taught in monasteries and temples in Asia. I must say that the subject seems a bit fuzzy.

Furthermore, do qigong and neigong complement?

 

Probably most of us have their own ideas about the subject... just curious about a traditional perspective.

 

Thanks!

 

E.

[YMWong]

Hello YM,

 

could you elaborate a bit on the difference between qigong and neigong? I know qigong is quite a modern term, and these kind of practices were once gathered under the umbrella-term yangsheng. As such, it seems most of them are part of China's popular cultural heritage, however we sometimes see people mentioning various forms of qigong taught in monasteries and temples in Asia. I must say that the subject seems a bit fuzzy.

Furthermore, do qigong and neigong complement?

 

Probably most of us have their own ideas about the subject... just curious about a traditional perspective.

 

Thanks!

 

E.

 

The term qigong has been widely used to cover all "energetic" practices, including in most cases "athletic-only" ones, since the 50s but it is not a new terms.

I have a few manuals dealing with "qigong" (in the title) from Republican era and many others which discuss "qigong" in their content, long before the 50s then.

 

Historically speaking, as everything else in Daoism and in the Chinese Tradition in general, there is not ONE single interpretation of a subject or a term but different schools see and believe in different ideas often at the exact opposite side of the spectrum. This does not mean that "everything works" or that everything is true, of course, but schools with a history of accomplished masters can practically testify to the goodness of their theories/believes/practices.

 

Nowadays, for as much as it is my experience, most schools and traditions labelled as "qigong" transmit either a void kind of gymnastic or at best a form of 'tuna' which is meant to balance the flow of "qi" already existing in the pratictioners' body. No matter what the advertisement say, this is used at best to produce balance of the body functions and therefore health.

 

The term "neigong" has now been used in place of "qigong" in many schools because it sells better, but in the vast majority of cases they still teach some kind of qigong.

This practice should allow for the absorption of "qi" from outside and the usage of it to strengthen the body, the mind or to be used for any purpose the pratictioner has as its goal.

 

Needless to says there is some little overlapping between the two practices but in general they are very different. A typical "neigong" usually looks like the practice you can see on the documentary "secrets of the yogis" or whatever it is called (I think there is a thread open here on Thetaobums).

 

Finally, for what concerns your question about the possibility for qigong and neigong to complement each other, it very much depends on the specific practice but in general I would say no, they don't. As a matter of fact many or most (actual) qigong can be practiced together since they work energies already existing in the body. Neigong, on the other side, creates, builds and generate a new kind of energy from the outside. The energy thus created has a "frequency" and characteristics peculiar to the system (the way it is created) so mixing this system with another would create huge problems as you would be mixing TWO different kind of energies.

 

Best

 

YM

Edited June 27, 2012 by YMWong

[Cat Pillar]

Thanks for that description of qigong and neigong, YM.

 

I find it interesting, because that's the opposite of how it was explained to me by my teacher. Qigong was described as working with external energies, and neigong as working with internal energies.

[YMWong]

I find it interesting, because that's the opposite of how it was explained to me by my teacher. Qigong was described as working with external energies, and neigong as working with internal energies.

 

It's good; if we all were in agreement on everything sharing here would make no sense

 

YM

[宁]

so, if my understanding is correct, the neigong energy can be used for various purposes, meanwhile qigong energy focuses on health. to your knowledge, to what other purposes, other than martial, can real neigong energy be used for. it kind of makes sense that nowadays the focus on martial goals should not be as important as in the past. which means today most practitioners use it for other practical purpose. how can that be done specifically? does it happen by itself as the amount of energy grows, or does intent, yi, play an active part. just share what you can.

 

thanks!

 

E.

[宁]

Edited June 27, 2012 by 宁

[宁]

Edited June 27, 2012 by 宁

[YMWong]

so, if my understanding is correct, the neigong energy can be used for various purposes, meanwhile qigong energy focuses on health. to your knowledge, to what other purposes, other than martial, can real neigong energy be used for. it kind of makes sense that nowadays the focus on martial goals should not be as important as in the past. which means today most practitioners use it for other practical purpose. how can that be done specifically? does it happen by itself as the amount of energy grows, or does intent, yi, play an active part. just share what you can.

 

Neigong is a tool and it can be used for many different purposes, martial been only one.

 

Just like having and learning to use a car: you can use it to race (as in martial) but also to pick up your kids from school, to go to work, to actually get a good job, to travel at leisure and visit new places or even to repair yourself from the rain

 

It is just a basic tool, then the lineage and personal preferences will direct one with time toward different goals.

Those goals may need additional instructions or not, depending on where one is in terms of development and where he wants to go.

 

Everything is always done one step at the time

 

YM

Edited June 27, 2012 by YMWong

[ChiDragon]

Neigong is a tool and it can be used for many different purposes, martial been only one.

 

Really! It is a tool.....???

[doc benway]

For comparison purposes, in my system we tend to use Qigong to refer to a combination of physical movement and breath work where work with the Yi is relatively rudimentary (e.g. sinking Qi to Dan Tian). We use Neigong to refer to 'exercises' that primarily work with Yi and have little or no external physical movement. In our Neigong, breathing is generally allowed to occur naturally, without intentional intervention whereas in Qigong, the breath is generally linked to the physical movement.

[Meroe]

The term qigong has been widely used to cover all "energetic" practices, including in most cases "athletic-only" ones, since the 50s but it is not a new terms.

I have a few manuals dealing with "qigong" (in the title) from Republican era and many others which discuss "qigong" in their content, long before the 50s then.

 

Historically speaking, as everything else in Daoism and in the Chinese Tradition in general, there is not ONE single interpretation of a subject or a term but different schools see and believe in different ideas often at the exact opposite side of the spectrum. This does not mean that "everything works" or that everything is true, of course, but schools with a history of accomplished masters can practically testify to the goodness of their theories/believes/practices.

 

Nowadays, for as much as it is my experience, most schools and traditions labelled as "qigong" transmit either a void kind of gymnastic or at best a form of 'tuna' which is meant to balance the flow of "qi" already existing in the pratictioners' body. No matter what the advertisement say, this is used at best to produce balance of the body functions and therefore health.

 

The term "neigong" has now been used in place of "qigong" in many schools because it sells better, but in the vast majority of cases they still teach some kind of qigong.

This practice should allow for the absorption of "qi" from outside and the usage of it to strengthen the body, the mind or to be used for any purpose the pratictioner has as its goal.

 

Needless to says there is some little overlapping between the two practices but in general they are very different. A typical "neigong" usually looks like the practice you can see on the documentary "secrets of the yogis" or whatever it is called (I think there is a thread open here on Thetaobums).

 

Finally, for what concerns your question about the possibility for qigong and neigong to complement each other, it very much depends on the specific practice but in general I would say no, they don't. As a matter of fact many or most (actual) qigong can be practiced together since they work energies already existing in the body. Neigong, on the other side, creates, builds and generate a new kind of energy from the outside. The energy thus created has a "frequency" and characteristics peculiar to the system (the way it is created) so mixing this system with another would create huge problems as you would be mixing TWO different kind of energies.

 

Best

 

YM

 

So basically what youre saying is neigong has more of a alchemical/ harnessing outer energy notation rather than just balancing and accumulating. that exactly what my teacher said good to see theres some kind of concensus accross different lineages