How many Taoists are out there in the TTB....?

[Jetsun]

I don't see much difference between following the Tao of Taoism and following the Middle Way of Buddhism, or much difference between being in Wu Wei and being in the Christian concept of Grace, it's all talking about the same stuff as far as I can see, so there are probably many Christians and Buddhists who are more like real genuine Taoists that are talked about in the old texts than many people who try to be Taoists and try to follow the Tao Te Ching.

[zerostao]

last night with a strong lightning storm, strong winds, heavy rains. i was sitting on my front porch, and i noticed this sparrow, that was

riding the storm out, resting on top of a column that held up 2 main beams that met at the corner of the porch.

so this sparrow had a very safe dry spot shielded from the winds and rains. she didnt seem to mind my swinging on the porch swing. and we both just enjoyed natures wonderful storm together.

[Stosh]

last night with a strong lightning storm, strong winds, heavy rains. i was sitting on my front porch, and i noticed this sparrow, that was

riding the storm out, resting on top of a column that held up 2 main beams that met at the corner of the porch.

so this sparrow had a very safe dry spot shielded from the winds and rains. she didnt seem to mind my swinging on the porch swing. and we both just enjoyed natures wonderful storm together.

Now That sounds like a Taoist !

Stosh

[Marblehead]

Now That sounds like a Taoist !

Stosh

The sparrow or Zero?

[Brian]

last night with a strong lightning storm, strong winds, heavy rains. i was sitting on my front porch, and i noticed this sparrow, that was

riding the storm out, resting on top of a column that held up 2 main beams that met at the corner of the porch.

so this sparrow had a very safe dry spot shielded from the winds and rains. she didnt seem to mind my swinging on the porch swing. and we both just enjoyed natures wonderful storm together.

 

 

I suspect she'd read the TTC.

[Stosh]

The sparrow or Zero?

 

The vignette Zero described sounds like what

I would expect a Taoist perspective would be

 

It isnt really only the exclusive property

of any religion or faith but it does sound

like a perspective worth cultivating.

 

PS

It took me a bit to figure out

but I wasnt taking a cheap shot at your sparrows

It said Fh not Mh

He had recently posted to the thread

and I saw his hair color in that thing

He claims immortality in some form or other exists

Which I consider to be contraindicated to a

perspective conducive to achieving wu wei

but if he can manage that conundrum ,so be it.

Stosh

[Marblehead]

... I wasnt taking a cheap shot at your sparrows ...

I know that. Just messing with you and trying to add a little humor.

 

And BTW I just found out that some of my sparrows are actually wrens. Sure took me a long time to figure that out. I am sure the wrens knew it all along.

[Stosh]

I know that. Just messing with you and trying to add a little humor.

 

And BTW I just found out that some of my sparrows are actually wrens. Sure took me a long time to figure that out. I am sure the wrens knew it all along.

Ok

Carolina Wrens? Like my current avatar?

If another please post a pic if you have one

I know birds fairly well now, and am curious

Stosh

[Marblehead]

Ok

Carolina Wrens? Like my current avatar?

If another please post a pic if you have one

I know birds fairly well now, and am curious

Stosh

Yes, quite similar. From what I understand the males are more black/grey top side and very light grey bottom side whereas the females are mostly brown. The brown color was what wanted me to consider them sparrows. One that I saw that I am pretty sure is a wren had a vertical dark red stripe on its head.

 

I haven't considered taking pictures of the birds yet. Maybe one day after I finish with the daylilies. And BTW, two more opened last night that I took a picture of this morning after I watered the gardens.

 

I glad that this stuff is part of Tao so that we aren't actually getting off topic. Hehehe.

 

Another BTW - The hummers are coming around more often lately feeding at the coral trumpets and the red bleeding hearts.

[Stosh]

Yes, quite similar. From what I understand the males are more black/grey top side and very light grey bottom side whereas the females are mostly brown. The brown color was what wanted me to consider them sparrows. One that I saw that I am pretty sure is a wren had a vertical dark red stripe on its head.

 

I haven't considered taking pictures of the birds yet. Maybe one day after I finish with the daylilies. And BTW, two more opened last night that I took a picture of this morning after I watered the gardens.

 

I glad that this stuff is part of Tao so that we aren't actually getting off topic. Hehehe.

 

Another BTW - The hummers are coming around more often lately feeding at the coral trumpets and the red bleeding hearts.

 

I think the thread went to sleep over the weekend anyway.

Please take a pic for me, if they are still around that is

if you have a lens that reaches out.

It sounds like chipping sparrows,interesting, I wouldve thought theyd moved north

but identification of our little ditty-birds is tough without

a photo , field guide and experience.

I am a bit jealous of your hummingbirds though, I never have seen one up here!

 

Sounds like you know your plants pretty certain, do you know the native flora

Im starting to take pix of the local flowers and could use help learning the IDs.

Stosh

[Marblehead]

Yes, the thread did go to sleep.

 

Actually, the only flora I know anything about are the varieties I try to grow around my place. I really don't have any indigenous plants growing in my gardens except for those things I consider to be weeds. My summer plants are mostly tropicals and my winter plants are from further north.

 

Yeah, this is only the second year for me seeing hummers in my gardens. Last year only a few sightings but this year many, almost daily.

 

I will try to get a pix of what I am calling a wren if I can. My camera does zoom but it will be a challenge getting a clear shot through the foliage of all the vines. Hehehe. It would be a jungle out there if I didn't keep the vines under control and growing only where I want them to grow. (No, that's not very Taoist. Hehehe.)

 

I do feed the birds so they have a good reason to stick around. But, the feeder is on the opposite side of a trellis for the passion vines and then a trellis for the bleeding hearts. But I will try to get the pix.

[Stosh]

Yes, the thread did go to sleep.

 

Actually, the only flora I know anything about are the varieties I try to grow around my place. I really don't have any indigenous plants growing in my gardens except for those things I consider to be weeds. My summer plants are mostly tropicals and my winter plants are from further north.

 

Yeah, this is only the second year for me seeing hummers in my gardens. Last year only a few sightings but this year many, almost daily.

 

I will try to get a pix of what I am calling a wren if I can. My camera does zoom but it will be a challenge getting a clear shot through the foliage of all the vines. Hehehe. It would be a jungle out there if I didn't keep the vines under control and growing only where I want them to grow. (No, that's not very Taoist. Hehehe.)

 

I do feed the birds so they have a good reason to stick around. But, the feeder is on the opposite side of a trellis for the passion vines and then a trellis for the bleeding hearts. But I will try to get the pix.

 

Ok great

Ive been told the hummingbirds may return for many years sometimes accurate to within

a day or two but you gotta keep them fed "religiously" as long as they stay

(and its a very conscientious thing to do, theyve been having difficult times

and serve the same purpose as bees , to a degree)

 

I am pretty sure theres a line or two

about doing what needs to be done

and to handle things before they get out of control

(such as smother the life around them which isnt

very harmonious either.)

 

Stosh

Edited July 23, 2012 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

Ok great

Ive been told the hummingbirds may return for many years sometimes accurate to within

a day or two but you gotta keep them fed "religiously" as long as they stay

(and its a very conscientious thing to do, theyve been having difficult times

and serve the same purpose as bees , to a degree)

 

I am pretty sure theres a line or two

about doing what needs to be done

and to handle things before they get out of control

(such as smother the life around them which isnt

very harmonious either.)

 

Stosh

Hehehe. But yes, Chuang Tzu speaks to dealing with problems while they are small.

 

And that reminded me that one of my projects for tomorrow is to refill the hummingbird feeders. I am going to try adding a little sugar to the mix this time just to see if it makes a difference for them. And I agree that hummers do a lot of pollenating those flowers that they visit.

[龙Dragon龍]

The whole theme of the Tao Te Ching was based on the concept of Wu Wei. Here are the steps of the logic:

1. Take no action

2. Take no abusive action

3. Take no abusive action to interfere

4. Take no abusive action to interfere with the course of Nature.

 

 

I would like to point out that logically this quote can be reduced to:

 

1. Take no action

2. Take no abusive action

3. Take no abusive action to interfere

4. Take no abusive action to interfere with the course of Nature.

 

For without any action non of the other can take place.

 

I know I'm a Taoist because I can see what is being pointed at with the words, rather then take the words too seriously or stare at the finger that is pointing. Being a Taoist is something to realize and experience, not something to understand or know. I think even by calling yourself a Taoist you are taking on a label of whatever you think is a Taoist, but even that is not what you really are because it is dependent upon what you think is a Taoist.

Edited July 24, 2012 by 龙Dragon龍

[ChiDragon]

I would like to point out that logically this quote can be reduced to:

 

1. Take no action

2. Take no abusive action

3. Take no abusive action to interfere

4. Take no abusive action to interfere with the course of Nature.

 

For without any action non of the other can take place.

 

I know I'm a Taoist because I can see what is being pointed at with the words, rather then take the words too seriously or stare at the finger that is pointing. Being a Taoist is something to realize and experience, not something to understand or know. I think even by calling yourself a Taoist you are taking on a label of whatever you think is a Taoist, but even that is not what you really are because it is dependent upon what you think is a Taoist.

 

Yes, exactly, very good...!!! I do agree it was understood. However, for discussion sake, it was impossible not to mention them to bring out the true Taoists. A Taoist was judged by his/her character not by the label. Even though you had labeled yourself as a Taoist, but I am not judging you by the label to agree that you are a Taoist. Indeed, I do agree that you are a Taoist by the revelation of your words.

[Stosh]

It is possible ....

 

Posting anything is taking an action

So everyone who posts has lost the way

if the way is not to take action

They have bound themselves to thier action

 

Realization is true understanding

So everyone who realizes Tao has lost the way

in their understanding they bind themselves

to believing in what they understood

 

Anyone who has labeled themself a Taoist

has lost the way, for they try to fulfill a label

or has taken ownership of the label

and have bound themselves

 

Anyone who hands out labels for who is a Taoist

is wrong, for the label is not the Taoist.

For the label will not bind them

 

.............

 

But I dont think so.

Does my not thinking so threaten the ego of

those who do think so?

I do think so

Ironically

this means that those who think they are Taoists,

and are threatened by the idea that they may not be,

are possibly not, in their own opinion, Taoists

Though I never rendered an an opinion that they were not.

 

Stosh

Edited July 24, 2012 by Stosh

[mYTHmAKER]

So the subject title of this thread is non Taoist i.e a Taoist would never - one can never say never - start this thread.

Unless of course he/she was a religious Taoist which a Taoist would never be

[Protector]

Time for another song then

[Marblehead]

If it is time for a song then a song should be sung.

 

We need be careful when talking about wu wei (no action).

 

For one to sit on their behind, suck off the efforts of others, and do nothing themselves is not being a Taoist. Far from it, I would suggest.

 

And when it is time to dance then dance!

 

How does that go? To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose ...

[ChiDragon]

The whole theme of the Tao Te Ching was based on the concept of Wu Wei. Here are the steps of the logic:

1. Take no action

2. Take no abusive action

3. Take no abusive action to interfere

4. Take no abusive action to interfere with the course of Nature.

 

Now, back on course.......

[Marblehead]

Okay. Now I feel a little better.

 

However,

 

4. Take no abusive action to interfere with the course of Nature.

 

even this could be argued if we consider the nature of an evil person or an evil dog wanting to do harm to others.

 

Just saying, it is hard to make universal statements and be correct within all conditions.

 

But still, #4 is the closest to 'it' based on my understanding.

[Stosh]

Okay. Now I feel a little better.

 

However,

 

4. Take no abusive action to interfere with the course of Nature.

 

even this could be argued if we consider the nature of an evil person or an evil dog wanting to do harm to others.

 

Just saying, it is hard to make universal statements and be correct within all conditions.

 

But still, #4 is the closest to 'it' based on my understanding.

 

That line number four is at least a followable suggestion

It does still require decipherment as to what abusive means

and the course of nature ,, that inherent flexibility

should could be investigated in its limitation and expanse

but it does service to the intent of Lao (I think)

but negating it all down to doing nothing ..that needs fixing!

And I dont care how it get fixed!

Rare as it is , I am literally offended that the work and

wisdom of those classical brilliant men would be boiled down

to an injunction against doing anything!

 

(I need to take a breath and get to an even keel.)

 

Stosh

[Stosh]

So the subject title of this thread is non Taoist i.e a Taoist would never - one can never say never - start this thread.

Unless of course he/she was a religious Taoist which a Taoist would never be

I think that is a fair description of the 'side debate'the main thread spawns.

Stosh

[Marblehead]

Getting back to the way off side topic of this thread;

 

I did remember to clean and fill the hummer feeders yesterday. And as nature would have it, this morning while sitting out front having my coffee and smoke two hummers (likely a mated pair by the way they moved together) came up and had breakfast. One of them just couldn't get enough and actually perched a couple times and drank and drank and drank.

 

Later while I was taking a break from working in the gardens a bunch of male Cardinals came over to the feeder they eat from and the young males were showing off trying to intimidate a couple mature males. It was actually a little funny watching them.

 

The Ways of Tao.

[Stosh]

Getting back to the way off side topic of this thread;

 

I did remember to clean and fill the hummer feeders yesterday. And as nature would have it, this morning while sitting out front having my coffee and smoke two hummers (likely a mated pair by the way they moved together) came up and had breakfast. One of them just couldn't get enough and actually perched a couple times and drank and drank and drank.

 

Later while I was taking a break from working in the gardens a bunch of male Cardinals came over to the feeder they eat from and the young males were showing off trying to intimidate a couple mature males. It was actually a little funny watching them.

 

The Ways of Tao.

It would be quite unusual for the immatures to bully the adults ,

you sure they werent begging to be fed?

Up here the cardinals are working on a second brood, (theres a nest outside the door)

and they may be letting the first fend for itself.

Stosh