How many Taoists are out there in the TTB....?

[Stosh]

The whole theme of the Tao Te Ching was based on the concept of Wu Wei. Here are the steps of the logic:

1. Take no action

2. Take no abusive action

3. Take no abusive action to interfere

4. Take no abusive action to interfere with the course of Nature.

 

Now, back on course.......

 

Before you get back to the main point , I gotta ask

do you contend that the final line of this

( and other passages ) is the culminating aspect?

It makes sense to me if thats the case

line four bearing the greatest degree of freedom

behaviors one two and three are also allowed under it

But .. if line one was the culminating aspect of the lesson

then lines two three and four are obviated

Stosh

Edited July 25, 2012 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

It would be quite unusual for the immatures to bully the adults ,

you sure they werent begging to be fed?

Up here the cardinals are working on a second brood, (theres a nest outside the door)

and they may be letting the first fend for itself.

Stosh

Yeah, pretty sure they were playing at being big birds. The young ones are too big to be begging to be fed.

 

I don't have any nests on my property. No trees. Don't even know if they do two hatchings down here.

[zerostao]

up in my neck of the woods, it is a better service to stop filling up the hummingbird feeders soon after labor day.

that way they will head on down and visit MH for the winter.

but it is great to put out bird seed here in the winter , that way local birds i never knew exisited show up and hang out.

and the birds behave in the most polite manner with each other around the seed.

birds are really very personable and friendly, their presence and company is very enjoyable.

i never understood how some folks viewed sparrows and wrens as some sort of pests.

they are both truly amazing and fascinating creatures.

wu wei has been brought up a few times on this thread but i didnt notice if ziran had?

[Marblehead]

 

wu wei has been brought up a few times on this thread but i didnt notice if ziran had?

No, we haven't talked about ziran (TzuJan) yet in this thread.

 

I think that ziran is the purest form of being (becoming), more so than wu wei perhaps.

 

Actually, ziran gets a little tricky if we add human morality in the discussion.

 

BTW Yes, up north it is good to stop feeding the hummers in fall otherwise the birds will stay and freeze to death.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Marblehead

[ChiDragon]

Before you get back to the main point , I gotta ask

do you contend that the final line of this

( and other passages ) is the culminating aspect?

It makes sense to me if thats the case

line four bearing the greatest degree of freedom

behaviors one two and three are also allowed under it

But .. if line one was the culminating aspect of the lesson

then lines two three and four are obviated

Stosh

 

Stosh...

You are a gentleman and a scholar. You have my highest regard.

 

Yes, I am contend that the final line of this ( and other passages ) is the culminating aspect.

 

If I revise the following you will know what I meant.

1. Wu Wei

1. Take no action

2. Take no abusive action

3. Take no abusive action to interfere

4. Take no abusive action to interfere with the course of Nature.

 

You see there is a tremendous language barrier here. If we keep the Chinese term as Wu Wei, then there is no problem. We must treat the term Wu Wei as the name of the philosophy. The philosophy is "Take no abusive action to interfere with the course of Nature."

 

The translation in English as "take no action" is the closest translation but it is the worse. Hence, the complete philosophical meaning of Wu Wei was lost in the translation.

 

What was the hidden meaning for Wu Wei is to "let Nature take its course". Thus Wu Wei means to be "natural", ziran(自然) .

 

 

That line number four is at least a followable suggestion

It does still require decipherment as to what abusive means

and the course of nature

1. Abusive: Anything that is negative causing an adverse effect of the outcome.

2. Course of Nature: Natural occurrence without interference; ziran(自然)

Edited July 26, 2012 by ChiDragon

[kundakiss]

1 .What are the qualities of a Taoist....???

2. What is the first quality to be expected in a Taoist...???

3. If you want to be a Taoist, what do you need to do to become one...???

4. If you think that you are a Taoist now, what makes you think that you are one...???

5. Since you have thought that you are a Taoist, did you follow all the principles or have you ever violated any of these principles....???

 

You may respond by answering anyone of the question.

 

The definition of Taoist exists only in the external world to create a sense of relativity. That's how labels and mental constructions came to exist. If you attach yourself to thinking of yourself or others as Taoists or anything else, then you do not directly connect to reality with your being and experience, but go through your mental process. It is the habit of the mind to ask such questions, because it can only rely on perceptions. The personality develops a spiritual ego through this self identification, and abides there. It is stuck. It is the worst type of ego in my opinion. It is the one that THINKS it knows, and therefore closes all doors to criticism.

 

A Taoist master cannot, in any way, identify himself to any mental construction, including Taoism. He is outside of the mind. He cannot be anything other than that - being. Only others will identify him as a Taoist. But he has turned inwards. So he does not care. Of even further, he has merged both inner and outer, and has become completely transparent. At which point, forget about trying to figure him out.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Peace

 

Eugene

Edited July 26, 2012 by oodjee

[kundakiss]

I accidentally created another reply, how do I delete this post?

Just joined this forum yesterday. =P

Edited July 26, 2012 by oodjee

[ChiDragon]

The definition of Taoist exists only in the external world to create a sense of relativity. That's how labels and mental constructions came to exist. If you attach yourself to thinking of yourself or others as Taoists or anything else, then you do not directly connect to reality with your being and experience, but go through your mental process. It is the habit of the mind to ask such questions, because it can only rely on perceptions. The personality develops a spiritual ego through this self identification, and abides there. It is stuck. It is the worst type of ego in my opinion. It is the one that THINKS it knows, and therefore closes all doors to criticism.

 

A Taoist master cannot, in any way, identify himself to any mental construction, including Taoism. He is outside of the mind. He cannot be anything other than that - being. Only others will identify him as a Taoist. But he has turned inwards. So he does not care. Of even further, he has merged both inner and outer, and has become completely transparent. At which point, forget about trying to figure him out.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Peace

 

Eugene

 

Here are the true Chinese Taoists. They had labeled themselves as a Taoist by their attires.

 

A Young Martial Arts Taoist

 

A Elder Taoist with a fan in his hand

Edited July 27, 2012 by ChiDragon

[kundakiss]

Here are the true Chinese Taoists. They had labeled themselves as a Taoist by their attires.

 

A Young Martial Arts Taoist

 

A Elder Taoist with a fan in his hand

 

Ok, so you still want to focus on someone who is still in "role" play.. All active spiritual identifications are simply stepping stones to higher realizations. At some point, they are abandoned. But yes, in that case, I suppose you can go ahead and dress up, and sincerely follow all the teachings and principles, and lead a specific "lifestyle", and then yes, you could label yourself as Taoist. I guess I was speaking for those who would at least enter into a transcendent state in their lives. In which case, labels would only bind them in their progress, because the higher the consciousness, the more organic one becomes. Just a being. An animal. A divine creature. No name. No identity. Nothing. Freedom is the only thing that is sought, and rules and traditions don't really complement it.

 

But see, these transcendent beings, would also be seen as master initiate monks, or gurus, in the outside world. Except people may mistaken them for Buddhists, Taoists, Yogis, whatever. The essence of Taoism is not about clothing or lifestyle, my friend. It's about who you are. Those people in those Taoist clothes in your pictures would still revere and recognize the high attainment of a non-Taoist, because he would still embody all Taoist principles, by default. Basically, beings in a permanent state of higher consciousness cannot be categorized.. they can even contradict themselves depending on the situation.

 

Anyway, I always advise people to let their personal experience be their guide. Not a mental idea or belief they hold on to. Feel life. Don't think it. From my experience, the above is the only personal answer than can come out.

 

Peace.

 

Eugene

Edited July 27, 2012 by oodjee

[ChiDragon]

oodjee....

Welcome aboard to the TTB. I am convinced that you have learned the purest philosophy of a guru and an enlightened wise one. We need more members like you to engage in our conversations for enlightenment.

 

BTW You have my highest regard too.....

Edited July 27, 2012 by ChiDragon

[kundakiss]

oodjee....

Welcome aboard to the TTB. I am convinced that you have learned the purest philosophy of a guru and a enlightened wise one. We need more members like you to engage in our conversations for enlightenment.

 

BTW You have my highest regard too.....

 

Thank you for your warm welcome ChiDragon

[julianlaboy]

oodjee, I don't know if you read the entire thread. If you did you may have noticed that you and I share some thoughts.

 

Welcome to the Forum and peace to you too.

[Ya Mu]

Bizarrely - or maybe not - every time I read the title of this thread I see "How many Taoists can you fit on the head of a pin?"

[Marblehead]

Bizarrely - or maybe not - every time I read the title of this thread I see "How many Taoists can you fit on the head of a pin?"

Hehehe. Wouldn't it depend on how large the pin is?

[ChiDragon]

Hehehe. Wouldn't it depend on how large the pin is?

 

The pin is very flexible as allowable as Tao....

Edited July 29, 2012 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

Bizarrely - or maybe not - every time I read the title of this thread I see "How many Taoists can you fit on the head of a pin?"

 

Anyone who talks about the "pin"... is 'pinned' to constructs about Taoist. Lost in explanation.

Edited July 30, 2012 by dawei

[Marblehead]

I have never been lost in my entire life. I have always been 'right here'. Now true, I might not have been where I wanted to be but that doesn't count because I am told that I am supposed to reduce my desires.

[mYTHmAKER]

How many Taoists can fit through the i of a needle?

Yes i

[Brian]

A needle doesn't have an i.

[mYTHmAKER]

A needle doesn't have an i.

 

Neither does a Taoist

[Ya Mu]

Anyone who talks about the "pin"... is 'pinned' to constructs about Taoist. Lost in explanation.

I would bet that if someone stuck you with a pin you would talk about a pin (I know I would), as in "Get that pin out of me!" NOT "Oh that is a construct so it doesn't bother me cause I am a Taoist." So would you then be a Taoist or not? HA HA The answer is a question: Is a "Taoist" practical or lost in (idea of what is meant by something read in a book) never-never land?

 

My remark was leaning more to the "This thread makes as much sense as" line of thought. Guess I shouldn't think out loud, but I do see that question every time I see this thread.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Ya Mu

[Marblehead]

Neither does a Taoist

Of course we do. Hehehe.

[mYTHmAKER]

Of course we do. Hehehe.

 

Yes you do

[Marblehead]

Yes you do

I'm glad we got that clarified. Hehehe.

[zerostao]

i prefer the sparrow,wren, and the hummingbird to pins and needles,

but that is just me, i reckon.

 

 

or golden pins and silver needles , you choose