Breathlessness

[Tibetan_Ice]

Hi,

 

During last night's meditation I was practising Alan Wallace's stage nine shamantha technique and I discovered how to stop the breath. I don't mean holding the breath, or filling up with air until you no longer feel the need to breathe. I'm talking about simply stopping the breath with no need to breathe, no urge to breath. And, at the same time, a mysterious surge of fine energy comes out and seems to support the life function.

 

The technique that I was practising was this:

1) Sit in a meditative posture, with eyes closed.

2) Focus on the empty space before the face ( I extended it out about 1 foot)

3) After a while, turn your attention fully backwards and focus on whom is perceiving.

 

I started the meditation and focused on the space, noticed my breathing which was somewhat rapid and just relaxed my face. My breathing rate increased somewhat but that is normal. After a few seconds, I turned my attention directly backwards into the back of the head, to try to sense the watcher, or the perceiver. As I did this I noticed that my breathing slowed down quite a bit.

 

Now, I have done many hours of 'being in the self' or 'just being' and I think I am pretty good at isolating the 'ego' or the sense of small sense which resided in the back of the head around the medulla area. This time, I had a pretty good sense of 'me', and there was some golden light around 'me'.

 

I moved my attention back out to the space in front of my face. My breathing resumed it's normal pace.

 

I moved my attention backwards towards the self again. Well, I've always thought that God was looking through my eyes, so perhaps it isn't the self.. I don't know. Regardless, my breathing slowed right down and stopped!!! WHAT WAS THAT? I had no urge to breathe at all. I quickly brought my attention back towards the space in front of my face and my breathing resumed.

 

I moved my attention back inwards to that spot, where the medulla is and my breathing stopped again.

 

I went back and forth and I realized that when I was focusing outwards, the breathing occurs. When I was focused on the "i", my breathing stopped. There was no urge to breathe. There was no feeling of suffocation, or urgency. It was quite freaky and at the same time, awesome.

 

Then I noticed that when I was focusing inwards there was a fine current of energy coming out from the medulla and progressing into my head. I thought to myself, I have discovered Yogananda's secret about the medulla being the mouth of God!

 

I sat in the breathless state for 10 seconds or so and then decided to end it and go to bed. The whole meditation lasted only 10 minutes. I didn't want to push it nor overload anything..

 

Well, I could not sleep. I was so energized!!! Unbelievable. I could see the purple and green pulsing lights, many visions, the dream worlds, planes, nimittas; it was like my consciousness was on fire. This kept me up until around 5:00 am at which time I finally managed to fall asleep.

 

Today, I have lots of heat in the head, upper body and arms. I feel like I am sunburned inside. Despite getting only 2 hours of sleep, I still feel pretty good.

 

Now for the questions:

 

1) If I stay in the breathless state too long by focusing on that spot in the medulla (or that area), will I die? Is this a dangerous practice?

 

2) Is the energy that comes out of the medulla the energy that Yogananda talks about, from the mouth of God?

 

3) Is there mention of this phenomenon in Taosim or Buddism?

 

3) Have you ever experienced breathlessness by centering on the medulla? If so, for how long?

 

Any comments will be surely appreciated.

 

I feel like I've discovered the key to how the yogis who remain breathless for days, buried in air tight boxes underground, do it.

 

TI

[Ish]

In Taoist yoga- alchemy and immortality it refers to the original cavity of the spirit between and behind the eyes in the center of the brain as being the source of the immortal breath.

I've found similar result when doing this meditation, not to the level of control that you explained though.

[gatito]

My advice: contact Alan Wallace for clarification.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I've read of something about turtles in water and people in the womb where the breathing process, maybe the chemical transformation, takes place in the stomach and some infants have even remembered how to do this for a few of minutes, miraculously surviving a water accident, at 1 or maybe a few months old,

 

apparently without [much noticeable] damage from lack of oxygene even though it occurred at an age when even a short suspension of oxgene would normally cause some level of serious permanent, brain damage, serious developmental issues, or worse....

Edited June 26, 2012 by Harmonious Emptiness

[Boy]

...

Edited October 11, 2012 by Boy

[Tibetan_Ice]

Hi

Ish: Thank you! I will check into that.

Gatito: I wonder if that is possible.. It could be very interesting to see what he says..

Harmonious Emptiness: Thanks for the response. Yeah though I walk through the valley of darkness..

Boy: You said it. "I know nothing about this particular technique".. I think you should have quit at that point.

 

I don't mean to be rude, but, the breathless state is not 'stupid'. It is the goal of Kriya Yoga.

And the mouth of God is a spiritual term for the medulla:

 

link: http://www.kheper.net/topics/chakras/Mouth_of_God.htm

 

The Mouth of God Centre

 

Called in Chinese the "Jade Pillow" (Yu Chen), and referred to by Mantak Chia as the Small Brain (Cerebellum) Centre, this chakra lies at the opening of the base of the skull, above the first cervical (neck) vertebra. It is part of a pump that draws spinal fluid and chi energy upwards, as well as promoting yin energy and helping to balance the yang energy of the Large Brain (Cerebrum).[Chia, p.214].

 

This very important centre connects with the Crown Chakra at the top of the head [Paulson, p.70]. Ann Ree Colton calls this the "Mouth of God" or "Bindu" Center, and identifies it with the Medulla oblongata at the base of of the skull, in the proximity of the brain stem. This is the centre where one connects with the cosmic mantra or "logos" [Colton, Colton, The Third Music , p.272]. It also controls the in-and out-breath, hence the association of breathing, sound, and mantra [Colton, Kundalini West, p.38].

 

But no hard feelings

 

I have been doing some research:

 

link: http://www.ananda.org/ask/342/achieving-the-breathless-state-in-meditation/

 

The "breathless state" is something that happens naturally as people have deeper experiences of meditation. It can happen for short periods (minutes) or much longer. Paramhansa Yogananda said that when one goes into the highest state of samadhi, the breath and heart can both stop for a prolonged amount of time.

 

 

link: http://www.ananda.org/meditation/support/articles/yogananda.html

 

 

Master, said a disciple, I am afraid to go breathless in meditation. What can I do to overcome this limitation?

 

What you are facing is a normal obstacle on the path, replied Yogananda. 'False notion,' it is called. You are fearing something that, to the soul, is perfectly natural: deep stillness within.

Your mind is like a bird that has been locked in a cage for many years. It fears liberty. Yet, freedom is its birthright.

 

Someone opens the door to let the bird out. It may hop outside a short distance, but then suddenly it thinks, 'Oh, this vast world!' Terrified, it hops hurriedly back into its cage again.

 

Gradually, then, by repeated sorties, the bird becomes accustomed to being outside its cage. Then at last, one day, it spreads its wings and soars up into the sky, free at last! And why is it free? Quite simply, because it has finally accepted freedom as its natural state.

 

So it is with the devotee when he first experiences soul-freedom. But remember, as it is natural for the bird to fly up into the sky, so is it natural for the soul to soar in omnipresence.

 

link: http://www.kriyayoga-yogisatyam.org/Articles/Praanayama.htm

 

According to Maharshi Patanjali, Praanayama is a state of cessation of breath, the discontinuance of inhalation and exhalation, which is the state of higher consciousness, known as the state of breathlessness. At this stage we are perfectly united (one) with the praana. We realize that we can live without breath. We are not bound or controlled by breath but we are controller of breath. Kriyayoga practice calms the storm of breath and retires our consciousness in the brain and spine to awaken the dormant power in the chakras (the hidden infinite treasure of wisdom).

 

Realized master Sri Paramahansa Yogananda has clearly explained that breathlessness is the higher state of realization known as Samadhi (perfect union with God). We cannot perceive Truth until we have attained full mastery over breath, as explained below in a passage from Autobiography of a Yogi.

 

Gyanavatar Swami Sri Yukteswar Giriji explains - The ancient yogis discovered that the secret of Cosmic Consciousness is intimately linked with the breath mastery. This is Indias unique and deathless contribution to the worlds treasury of knowledge. The life force, which is ordinarily absorbed in maintaining the heart pump, must be freed for higher activities by a method of calming and stilling the ceaseless demands of the breath. The state of breathlessness (gradual, unforced cessation of breathing) is the state of deathlessness where we behold our eternity.

 

link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahiri_Mahasaya

 

Lahiri Mahasaya:

He often exhibited the breathless state of superconscious samādhi.

 

 

 

link: http://srfglassonion.blogspot.ca/2011/12/flicker-shows-strongmen-and-yogis.html

 

The rishis, however, have pointed out that the acid test of a master is a man's

ability to enter at will the breathless state, and to maintain the unbroken samadhi of nirbikalpa.

 

link: http://www.crystalclarity.com/yogananda/chap12.php

 

"Those who are too good for this world are adorning some other," Sri Yukteswar remarked. "So long as you breathe the free air of earth, you are under obligation to render grateful service. He alone who has fully mastered the breathless state16 is freed from cosmic imperatives. I will not fail to let you know when you have attained the final perfection."

 

link: http://yogasutras.com/Chidakasha_Gita_of_Nityananda_Julian_Lee.html

 

The Mystery Of Kumbhaka

 

A great deal of the Nityananda material speaks directly about the breathless state called kumbhaka. In minimalist or introductory terms kumbhaka refers to any retention of breath. It thus refers, also, to the natural moment when the breath is not moving in or out but has stopped moving briefly. When anybody holds their breath, whether to swim underwater or practice pranayama techniques that is kumbhaka in the most basic terms.

 

But the yogic state of kevali kumbhaka is the pleasant, blissful, easy cessation of the breath for extraordinarily long periods in normal human terms, even indefinitely. In yogic terms it could also be called a natural cessation of breath. It develops by inner cultivation of processes of pranayama combined with mind. Indeed the yogic axiom is true: Mind is breath and breath is mind. Have no doubt whatsoever that the goal and purpose of all pranayama exercises or techniques is the breathless state of kumbhaka.

 

The skeletal and terse Yoga-Sutra of Patanjali, one of the most important and authoritative religious books in existence, devotes three direct verses to pranayama. It's final verse on pranayama refers precisely to the breathless state (a state of inner breathing) that Nityananda mentions so often below.

...

Yukteswar's own guru L. Mahasaya was reported to be living -- and functioning -- in a state with no heartbeat or pulse. Nityananda himself, we have record, mentioned once that he was rejected as a young man from military service because the doctor could find no pulse or heartbeat in him.

 

So the state of kumbhaka was a state that Nityananda had accomplished early in his wandering sadhana, and a literal breathless state is indeed what he is referring to in his statements about the "inner breath" below. His talk about the "inner breath" that goes on entirely within "like the wheels inside a clock" with no movement of air and "nothing taken from outside" -- is not a metaphorical or "poetic" interpretation of the ordinary breath. He is speaking literally about an inner, sustaining pranic breath that involves no physical substances, no movement of airs in or out of the body, and no oxygen.

 

...

The "breathless state" only refers to the gross breath that involves the lungs and the movement of air. The yogi actually does continue to breathe with an inner breath. So the inner breath is an accompanying aspect of kumbhaka. It is also the prelude to pratyahara or reversal of life force (really, full reversal of attention). This is a siddha's meditation technique.

 

The state of kumbhaka centers around gradual cognition of an internal breath based on two inner attitudes or inner positions. The normal gross outer breath is also based on these same two inner attitudes. Whatever is effected or received during conventional breathing is effected only by these two inner postures and attitudes. These are the reality-kernel of earthly breathing, now obscured and tricked up by the fanciful notions and embellishments of "air," "lungs," mouth and throat, etc.

 

The utterances of Nityananda below are large and highlighted by yellow, which is a color associated with knowledge as well as the glow of the sun, the "golden egg" of Hiranyagharba (first manifestation of the Creator God), and the glow of creation.

...

 

They concentrate their breath in the brahmarandhra where the ida and the pingala meet. They have realized the Paramatman;

 

This practice progresses best when visualizations concerning it take place up in the head, a the devotee aspires for God as prana, bindu (light), sound, all-sufficiency, all healing, all-provision, all grace, purity, and bliss.

 

 

 

It is kind of neat to think that through developing the various stages of anapanasati, combining it with Nisargadatta's "focus on the sense of I AM" which led me into the golden egg at the medulla, and by learning about how to calm the body and mind through different stages of Shamatha learned by studying and practising "Alan Wallace's Stilling the Mind book", I would eventually discover exactly how to cause the breathless state willfully. And it has nothing to do with controlling the breath, pranayama, or forcing the breath in any way. It is like touching a switch and the breath just shuts off. It's like withdrawing your awareness or lifeforce back into the center of your being.

 

If there are any Kriya Yoga experts out there who have experienced, I would love to hear from you.

 

Thanks again for the comments so far..

 

TI

Edited June 27, 2012 by Tibetan_Ice

[thelerner]

My first thought is its a meditative illusion. Like when a long session of meditation seems to pass very quickly, I wonder if this non breath is simply a very very slow one. When I do long meditation and its going well my breath cycle gets longer and subtler.

 

When it does thats some of the deepest state I fall into.

 

 

Food for thought.. maybe fast food.

[Creation]

[Subtle]

In meditation that is referred to as 'hsi.' Provided that you are not forcing a breathless state you should be fine. It occurs naturally in meditation with enough practice.

 

Send the meditation expert (www.meditationexpert.com) an email for further information.

[gatito]

Hi

Ish: Thank you! I will check into that.

Gatito: I wonder if that is possible.. It could be very interesting to see what he says..

Harmonious Emptiness: Thanks for the response. Yeah though I walk through the valley of darkness..

Boy: You said it. "I know nothing about this particular technique".. I think you should have quit at that point.

 

I don't mean to be rude, but, the breathless state is not 'stupid'. It is the goal of Kriya Yoga.

And the mouth of God is a spiritual term for the medulla:

 

link: http://www.kheper.ne...outh_of_God.htm

 

 

 

But no hard feelings

 

I have been doing some research:

 

link: http://www.ananda.or...-in-meditation/

 

 

 

 

link: http://www.ananda.or.../yogananda.html

 

 

 

 

link: http://www.kriyayoga.../Praanayama.htm

 

 

 

link: http://en.wikipedia....Lahiri_Mahasaya

 

Lahiri Mahasaya:

 

 

 

 

link: http://srfglassonion...-and-yogis.html

 

 

 

link: http://www.crystalcl...anda/chap12.php

 

 

 

link: http://yogasutras.co...Julian_Lee.html

 

 

 

It is kind of neat to think that through developing the various stages of anapanasati, combining it with Nisargadatta's "focus on the sense of I AM" which led me into the golden egg at the medulla, and by learning about how to calm the body and mind through different stages of Shamatha learned by studying and practising "Alan Wallace's Stilling the Mind book", I would eventually discover exactly how to cause the breathless state willfully. And it has nothing to do with controlling the breath, pranayama, or forcing the breath in any way. It is like touching a switch and the breath just shuts off. It's like withdrawing your awareness or lifeforce back into the center of your being.

 

If there are any Kriya Yoga experts out there who have experienced, I would love to hear from you.

 

Thanks again for the comments so far..

 

TI

 

Hi TI

 

• It's always best to check understanding with the teacher directly, I think (and in person ).
• I've never found you to be in the least bit rude. In fact, the opposite. I also agree that manners maketh the man.
• While not an expert kriyaban, I have experienced breath cessation myself.

G

Edited June 27, 2012 by gatito

[Boy]

...

Edited October 11, 2012 by Boy

[joeblast]

Don't discount the tremendous amount of prior effort to get there For if it may come at will, it happens because the vehicle is prepared for it. I would be careful not to do this too often, the extended periods. Not more than once or twice a month perhaps, but that is of course dependent on your circumstances.

[konchog uma]

"There is a fascinating relationship between the perception of timelessness and the cessation of breath. In Taoist meditation practice this suspension of the breath is often encountered when entering the deeper states of mental quiescence."

 

from Taoist Stillness Practices by Tom Kenyon

http://tomkenyon.com/taoiststillness

 

My ninja teacher has talked a little about drawing the winds to the central channel in order to breathe energetically instead of physically. I don't claim to understand it, but he does.. as i recently mentioned, i have talked to people who have seem him sit underwater (icy water!) for more than 30 minutes.

 

I am not here to judge, but i would just like to say that Boy has a lot of negative commentary for someone who claims to know "nothing about this particular technique". What one says to others about something is most helpful when it is a reflection of what they know about it.

[Boy]

...

Edited October 11, 2012 by Boy

[Ish]

"There is a fascinating relationship between the perception of timelessness and the cessation of breath. In Taoist meditation practice this suspension of the breath is often encountered when entering the deeper states of mental quiescence."

 

from Taoist Stillness Practices by Tom Kenyon

http://tomkenyon.com/taoiststillness

 

My ninja teacher has talked a little about drawing the winds to the central channel in order to breathe energetically instead of physically. I don't claim to understand it, but he does.. as i recently mentioned, i have talked to people who have seem him sit underwater (icy water!) for more than 30 minutes.

 

I am not here to judge, but i would just like to say that Boy has a lot of negative commentary for someone who claims to know "nothing about this particular technique". What one says to others about something is most helpful when it is a reflection of what they know about it.

 

I agree, it would be a different matter if he was a novice meditator and forcefully holding his breath but that's clearly not the case at all.

[RiverSnake]

Interesting stuff. Thanks for the post TibetanIce.

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

[Tibetan_Ice]

[Tibetan_Ice]

In meditation that is referred to as 'hsi.' Provided that you are not forcing a breathless state you should be fine. It occurs naturally in meditation with enough practice.

 

Send the meditation expert (www.meditationexpert.com) an email for further information.

Hi Subtle

Thanks for the link. I checked it out.

I also found this about hsi:

link: http://taoism.about.com/od/meditation/a/Embryonic_Breathing.htm

3) Hsi. Through the highly advanced refinement of meditation the breath becomes so slight that it almost stops. At this stage the inward and outward movement of the respiratory system ceases to function. Breathing through other parts of the body, however, is not completely stopped. A natural breath starts to function from the lower abdomen to the lower Tan Tien. This is Hsi. Later, the Taoists call it Tai Hsi (the breathing of an embryo in the womb). Some schools of thought even believe that mind and Hsi are interdependent.

 

Somehow I don't think that that is what is happening. How I would describe it is that the out-going life-force is reversed and goes back to the medulla. The breathing just stops and there is a flow of something coming out from the medulla.

 

But that is interesting.

Thanks.

 

TI

[joeblast]

Please elaborate.

Sooner or later in practices like these hypoxia will result. Of course when the juice is flowin good, it will take much more time. All with the intent of not straining the body too much, physical or energetic. It was a general cautionary guideline I received on some other breath hold practices - while those seemed a tad more yang than this, there were enough similarities that it seemed like a good idea to relay 'em. As they're not entirely congruent, there may be more accurate guidelines from teachers of the practice TI is doing. (I'd surmise that there's some sort of similar guideline...)

Edited June 28, 2012 by joeblast

[konchog uma]

Thanks for that bit of info. In the past few weeks I have noticed deepening of a wringing sensation from ldt to mdt, sometimes noticeable along my whole spine during meditation. My breath slows way, way down as I increasingly allow myself to sink into my ldt. 'Ordeal' is a word that came to mind the other day, as I was experiencing this super intense 'wringing' physical & energetic sensation. Maybe this is why joeblast issued his warning.

 

btw - I <3 that you have a ninja teacher.

 

sounds like some intense stuff RV! i wish you the best with your 'ordeal'.

 

i love that i have a ninja teacher too!! I love him. Its a really cool relationship. I wish he had more students who just wanted to learn the meditations and internal cultivations, but he runs into a lot of meatheads who want to learn how to kill people better, and he is always kind of at odds with that part of his past so he doesn't really teach it.

 

He has never charged me a cent for teachings either. Not one thin dime. I help him out all the time, financially, and in other ways, but it is amazing to have someone like that in my life!

[Marks of Glory]

[thelerner]

I also found this about hsi:

link: http://taoism.about.com/od/meditation/a/Embryonic_Breathing.htm

 

Nice link. Good articles.

[Marks of Glory]

Don't discount the tremendous amount of prior effort to get there For if it may come at will, it happens because the vehicle is prepared for it. I would be careful not to do this too often, the extended periods. Not more than once or twice a month perhaps, but that is of course dependent on your circumstances.

 

maybe if you try it once... wait for a while for your nervous system adapt to the new shock... then again a little... and so forth... that's kind of the rule for every practice isn't it?

 

and oh.. about the heat... it is said in some alchemical/ hermetic texts, as well as tantric, that "once you find the inner fire, and it is firmly established, the completion of the great work is guaranteed the Adept must only take care not to let the mixture BURN, just like a cook takes care of his food"..

 

some say you can even stop some practices, I mean.. if you feel the heat continuosly even without practicing.. it means it's firmly established.. so you don't practice any more... control the heat by eating some "heavy" (not junky) food... such as ghee.. of some good quality meat, etc... in intervals not greater than 2 and half hours (Gopi Krishnas case)

 

I f you stay too long without eating, having the inner fire established... you will get very ill, and not want to eat at all, getting even to feel alot of pain when you eat... but the trick.. gopi krishna said... is to eat any ways.. forceyourself... until the fire is controlled...

 

When I was studying in a naturopathic hospital in India, I yogin arived one day.. he said he was practicing kundalini yoga, and he was burning on the inside.. he was in shock.. could'nt eat and was pretty insane... died a few days lattter... (don't want to scare you.. hehe... I actually think that you should try out for your own.. ask questions, search for spirituality - if something inside you tells you to - and, as Tolkien says in the Hobbit "Hope that Luck was born beside you") I think you should be more carefull with the inner heat, than with the actual breath suspention...

 

 

best wishes

[joeblast]

Imho, more robust to make the breath so fine, drop below threshold of turbulence...smooth transition between inhale exhale until it truly becomes "the one breath" and some if these same things happen... "breathless"...yet still respirating...