Hand position in Zhan Zhuang

[yugenphoenix]

I came across this page with Xingyi information. www.smiliingtiger.net/xingyi.html Lots of cool info, but specially asking about the Xingyi basic skills article. It contains info on pangen which I can find nowhere else except as a mention in Dan Miller's Xingyi Neigung book. But anyway what I wanted to know in the basic skills article it states it is for health and the first standing posture to use that is listed is called Fixed Energy Standind post and it has your basic Zhan Zhuang advice but has one keep the palms facing forward as opposed toward your chest. I was wondering the significance of this and how it would affect ones energy. I tried it feels kinda of awkward compared to the palms facing inward. I really want to follow this article and practice all it says but starting with this posture seems/feels not right, so wanted some expert advice from you guys. Thanks for anything you can offer.

[寒月 Hanyue]

I'm no Xingyi expert,

 

There are LOTS of variations upon standing postures, they all have their nuances.

 

From a neigong pov, there is a yin/yang relationship between the way the winding/wrapping/spiralling of the arms as they grow from the back is being trained. There is also an energy aspect of yin yang. There is up/out and in/down. The holding the ball position can be trained in these two ways. Stand in the posture and play with these and you should find your arms move between the two extremes, palms facing 'in', or 'out'. Even with 'out' in the palms in posture there is more a feeling of containing inwards. While even when spirling 'in' with the palms out, there is more a feeling of holding at bay. Turning the palms facing out is (simplistically speaking) a more out and forward posture and has that feel to it, these are things you want to train in xingyi.

 

Play and see, you'll need time.

 

Best,

[Chang]

Whilst it is certainly possible in principle to learn Zhan Zhuang from a book or article the importance of proper posture and structural alignment cannot be over emphasised.

 

If at all possible find yourself a class to attend with a good teacher.

[joeblast]

and barring that, a full length mirror is indispensable

 

think of the yinyang of the arm channels - hold it one way, consider...hold it the other, consider...what is the difference in proprioception? have you done any laogong breathing before? that's another dimension of the concepts explore the different angles of it all from your own awareness' point of view, it helps make experiential gain more comprehensive.

[Trunk]

There are LOTS of variations upon standing postures, they all have their nuances...

Play and see, you'll need time.

Check it.

[Andrei]

Check my link from signature:Stand still

[ChiDragon]

Check it.

 

The ZZ position in the top middle picture is the most common and fundamental position. Putting the hands in the front gives more stabilization for the body to maintain balance. It seems like holding a tree. It was commonly known as "embracing an urn" to the Chinese.

 

You can try to bend your knees while having the hands held back; and see if you are off balance very easily. Now, put your hands in front as shown in the picture. Do you feel more stable with the hands in the front position....???

[Sloppy Zhang]

According to B.K. Frantzis, there are about 200 unique standing postures found in Daoist standing training.

 

Consider the fact that Daoism has been a part of Chinese culture for thousands of years, influencing hundreds of martial arts, and it's easy to understand how different martial arts began using different postures that helped them the most.

 

So one style of Xingyiquan might use certain standing postures because those postures work with energies in a certain way that said style of Xingyiquan likes the most.

 

Xingyiquan is typically very "yang" in the sense that it is very outgoing, attack first so you don't have to defend, always attack attack attack, always moving forward (even in retreat). So the postures it uses are probably less on the "neutral" side where you balance your energy, and even less so on the "absorb/harmonize" side, and more so on the "project your own energy" side.

 

If you're feeling awkward it might mean a few things...

 

1) Xingyiquan just isn't for you. Take up an art that is more about absorbing/redirecting, such as Tai Chi or Judo.

 

2) You've found a weakness, and Xingyiquan can help strengthen that weakness. Plenty of people take up practices that they do not feel affinity with. Maybe you are TOO withdrawn, TOO yielding, and xingyiquan can teach you how to be more projective and outgoing.

[joeblast]

The ZZ position in the top middle picture is the most common and fundamental position. Putting the hands in the front gives more stabilization for the body to maintain balance. It seems like holding a tree. It was commonly known as "embracing an urn" to the Chinese.

 

You can try to bend your knees while having the hands held back; and see if you are off balance very easily. Now, put your hands in front as shown in the picture. Do you feel more stable with the hands in the front position....???

Oh, my dear scholar