John Chang video

[flowing hands]

I missed the great debate! But see it has been locked, but I wanted to add my observations, if that's ok by the mods?

Perhaps we can continue it without too many frayed tempers???

 

The one question I would like to put forward is what is he getting from this?

 

Personally speaking eighteen years of practice seems very little to develop oneself to the level he is showing he has achieved.

 

Is it a wise thing to show off in front of western vulnerable people?

 

Externally from what I can judge, he is issuing his power, but he makes far too much ceremony of the paper and making it into a ball for me to believe that he is really doing this. If you can really do this, get someone else to put the paper on the floor and do it, no ceremony or touching the paper, or stamping it out afterwards, which may conceal evidence of a trick. I have been in the presence of a magician who can do just as amazing things as John Chang, but they are only tricks. Personally I think there are people who can do this sort of thing, but I don't think we will see them demonstrate it without a very serious purpose for doing so.

[Apech]

The thread was not locked to prevent discussion of John Chang.

 

It was not locked because of the idea of scientific testing of such powers.

 

It was locked because bickering, insults and ad hominem attacks.

 

Please feel free to carry on.

[fizix]

John Chang did not go out of his way to 'prove' anything to anyone, he was not trying to prove the existence of powers, he was simply demonstrating for a documentary, he was approached by them, not the other way around.

 

"The one question I would like to put forward is what is he getting from this?"

 

What is he getting from what? His alleged powers? Demonstrating them on video? He regrets doing the documentary, if that implies anything... and many people don't understand, Mo Pai is a MARTIAL ART, not a spiritual path per se, the cultivation of yin/yang energies are in this path are utilitarian, Mo Pai is a "power path" not "wisdom path" so some may argue that it is irrelevant whether wise or not to display martial potential.. the perpetuation of misguided, cult-nature ideas could be a much more dangerous demonstration of 'power'...

 

"Personally I think there are people who can do this sort of thing, but I don't think we will see them demonstrate it without a very serious purpose for doing so."

 

What exactly/examples would be a very serious purpose for demonstrating such type of power?

Edited June 26, 2012 by fizix

[flowing hands]

John Chang did not go out of his way to 'prove' anything to anyone, he was not trying to prove the existence of powers, he was simply demonstrating for a documentary, he was approached by them, not the other way around.

 

"The one question I would like to put forward is what is he getting from this?"

 

What is he getting from what? His alleged powers? Demonstrating them on video? He regrets doing the documentary, if that implies anything... and many people don't understand, Mo Pai is a MARTIAL ART, not a spiritual path per se, the cultivation of yin/yang energies are in this path are utilitarian, Mo Pai is a "power path" not "wisdom path" so some may argue that it is irrelevant whether wise or not to display martial potential.. the perpetuation of misguided, cult-nature ideas could be a much more dangerous demonstration of 'power'...

 

"Personally I think there are people who can do this sort of thing, but I don't think we will see them demonstrate it without a very serious purpose for doing so."

 

What exactly/examples would be a very serious purpose for demonstrating such type of power?

Whoever one is we can all say "no". Don't get me wrong I'm not against him at all, but I am openly asking non emotive and where possible factual questions just like people have asked questions of me. He could have quite easily said no and refused to demonstrate. Such things will only cause great confusion of the heart. Everyone wants powers like John Chang, everyone is certainly not self resolved to handle such things wisely. The Dao is then forgotten and lost in such small talents compared to the Dao, but people are always fascinated and loose their way.

When looking at these things peoples own needs to believe in such things tend to blind them to what is actually happening. As I have already stated, there are so many holes especially in the lighting fire demo and that very clever magicians can do exactly what he can do without qi, one has to look at this openly and in actual fact he almost commits to an 'act' when he starts tearing the paper and preparing it, like it was a show, I get a very strong and distinct feeling. I don't think one should just take it at face value.

[Ish]

As far as i know there was a communication error when they said they wanted to make a documentary he thought it was filming it for the sake of documentation not to show to the public.

[dawei]

One can read the book by Kosta Danaos for less then $5 from Amazon:

 

The Magus of Java

 

I recall that JC asked his spiritual teachers for permission so he did not make the decision himself on some level; but then he followed with stopping some things after he sensed spiritual dissent.

 

JC said he was not a Taoist, yet the author insisted on referring to him in the subtitle as "Teachings of an Authentic Taoist Immortal". So it is clear that even when people directly ask him questions and he gives straight answers, they still twist a label on him he denied. So I would carefully read the book as how Kosta saw JC but it may not be exactly who JC is or that he is properly portrayed. My Qigong master has said he hoped some day to find him over in Indonesia to have a chat.

Edited June 30, 2012 by dawei

[joeblast]

Personally I think there are people who can do this sort of thing, but I don't think we will see them demonstrate it without a very serious purpose for doing so.

Far as I'm concerned, if healing another, that's quite a serious and beneficial purpose

 

Wrt/ burning paper...anyone who's lit a fire before knows that certain configurations of paper and varying sizes of wood are more conducive to a good light and burn than others. There needs to be a proper balance between stuff and space

[Andrei]

Far as I'm concerned, if healing another, that's quite a serious and beneficial purpose

 

Wrt/ burning paper...anyone who's lit a fire before knows that certain configurations of paper and varying sizes of wood are more conducive to a good light and burn than others. There needs to be a proper balance between stuff and space

 

Here you can find a youtube video that it is showing how you can burn the paper. Even so my personal belief is that John Chang is authentic.

 

http://www.squidoo.com/john-chang-dynamo-jack-psychic-power

 

Stop the video with JC at 1:50, two things worth been noticed, one the paper folds and we can see the face of the paper that in a scam must be hidden from viewers, the second there is a man behind him.

Edited July 1, 2012 by steam

[NeiChuan]

I Find it interesting to mention that he also keeps his palm in the fire for a good while. or atleast close enough to get burned very harshly.

[joeblast]

I Find it interesting to mention that he also keeps his palm in the fire for a good while. or atleast close enough to get burned very harshly.

Funny, cuz I've held my palms up to heat or fire before and can 'push' w/ laogong to the point that heat isn't felt.

 

Steam, from the experiences I've had, I don't doubt Chang's abilities

[flowing hands]

Funny, cuz I've held my palms up to heat or fire before and can 'push' w/ laogong to the point that heat isn't felt.

 

Steam, from the experiences I've had, I don't doubt Chang's abilities

 

I would like him to repeat the same thing without paper and a thermometer placed under his hand with remote measuring device to see what happens. Many years ago I read of a man who could set fire to paper through his eyes. He had practiced to do this all his life. Ie he devoted his whole life's practice just to be able to do this. With the right practice I think it is possible to do many things, but there are many fakes out there.

From what I remember and I'm sure someone will correct my phraseology and terminology, he is practicing more of the Yang fa itzutan. Whereas I practice more of the yin fa itzutan.

[Chen]

As it concerns the story "paper on fire",I have to remind you that Danaos,in his first book "Magus Of Java",had pointed out that he was aware of the possibility of fraud,such as phosphor hidden in paper.It was very amusing for me to see in differend forums that a lot of people suddenly after so many years discover this possibility.

I will share with you an old story that happened more than ten years ago.

We were seating in John's leaving room,Sifu was wearing his ceremony Kung Fu uniform,t shirt ,shorts and flip flops,watching football on t.v.

For many hours we were talking with other students and after some hour the conversation turned to the fire ability stuff .

Then Sifu ,turned to us,it was late at night,and asked us if we want to see it again?

He picked up a tissue from a box in front of us,put it in an ashtray on the table and tensed hia palm over it.

After a while steam started to rise from the ashtray and a small flame for a short period.

He stopped the tension over the paper and the fire stopped after a while. The hlf ignited tissue smoked for a while.

He was looking disappointed,he said smthng like "no power, no power," and went back to his football Match.

The rest of us we were ready to kneel and thank him for the out of blue demonstration but he was back on his t.v

Of course the scepticals will say that he had a piece of phosphor in his shorts,or the tissue that was on the table available to everyone was trapped with smthng,or I was on drugs.

No matter what....this man has the power.

Tnx.

[Sifu ReL]

As it concerns the story "paper on fire",I have to remind you that Danaos,in his first book "Magus Of Java",had pointed out that he was aware of the possibility of fraud,such as phosphor hidden in paper.It was very amusing for me to see in differend forums that a lot of people suddenly after so many years discover this possibility.

I will share with you an old story that happened more than ten years ago.

We were seating in John's leaving room,Sifu was wearing his ceremony Kung Fu uniform,t shirt ,shorts and flip flops,watching football on t.v.

For many hours we were talking with other students and after some hour the conversation turned to the fire ability stuff .

Then Sifu ,turned to us,it was late at night,and asked us if we want to see it again?

He picked up a tissue from a box in front of us,put it in an ashtray on the table and tensed hia palm over it.

After a while steam started to rise from the ashtray and a small flame for a short period.

He stopped the tension over the paper and the fire stopped after a while. The hlf ignited tissue smoked for a while.

He was looking disappointed,he said smthng like "no power, no power," and went back to his football Match.

The rest of us we were ready to kneel and thank him for the out of blue demonstration but he was back on his t.v

Of course the scepticals will say that he had a piece of phosphor in his shorts,or the tissue that was on the table available to everyone was trapped with smthng,or I was on drugs.

No matter what....this man has the power.

Tnx.

 

so you actually met JC??.....i use to be a little skeptical some years back but after i watch the video like 1000 times and advance in my on martial art training. i concluded that the human potiental is not being tapped by the general public , who find more ways of geting out of doin things for themself...Example. alot of people would rather watch football on tv , then to go out an play football. hence we see great skill but dont think its possible for us.

i think JC powers are real...and its not meet for everysingle person to learn easy and fast. so for him to give us the little hope and demotrations. is for those who are devouted and real to everyone and themself to learn and cultivate for themselfs.

if you really belief and train in what JC's Powers are and represent you will learn them. but dont exspect to fly tommorro just cuz you believe in JC's...

 

Ive manage to shock people, not everyperson on my first try like JC. but i have mange to shock them useing JC's technique explain in the vid. which is very clear if you know basic qi -gong breathing.

 

now what i would really like to learn is the Weight reduction, i cant find a manuel on that type of meditation.

i think more people need to practice there Foundation in martial arts..but most of you on here study Tao & meditation only, hoping to achieve powers...when your really pose to have a goal of Enlightenment.

 

 

-you do not have a soul,

you are a Soul & you have a BODY.

[Sifu ReL]

As it concerns the story "paper on fire",I have to remind you that Danaos,in his first book "Magus Of Java",had pointed out that he was aware of the possibility of fraud,such as phosphor hidden in paper.It was very amusing for me to see in differend forums that a lot of people suddenly after so many years discover this possibility.

I will share with you an old story that happened more than ten years ago.

We were seating in John's leaving room,Sifu was wearing his ceremony Kung Fu uniform,t shirt ,shorts and flip flops,watching football on t.v.

For many hours we were talking with other students and after some hour the conversation turned to the fire ability stuff .

Then Sifu ,turned to us,it was late at night,and asked us if we want to see it again?

He picked up a tissue from a box in front of us,put it in an ashtray on the table and tensed hia palm over it.

After a while steam started to rise from the ashtray and a small flame for a short period.

He stopped the tension over the paper and the fire stopped after a while. The hlf ignited tissue smoked for a while.

He was looking disappointed,he said smthng like "no power, no power," and went back to his football Match.

The rest of us we were ready to kneel and thank him for the out of blue demonstration but he was back on his t.v

Of course the scepticals will say that he had a piece of phosphor in his shorts,or the tissue that was on the table available to everyone was trapped with smthng,or I was on drugs.

No matter what....this man has the power.

Tnx.

 

so you actually met JC??.....i use to be a little skeptical some years back but after i watch the video like 1000 times and advance in my on martial art training. i concluded that the human potiental is not being tapped by the general public , who find more ways of geting out of doin things for themself...Example. alot of people would rather watch football on tv , then to go out an play football. hence we see great skill but dont think its possible for us.

i think JC powers are real...and its not meet for everysingle person to learn easy and fast. so for him to give us the little hope and demotrations. is for those who are devouted and real to everyone and themself to learn and cultivate for themselfs.

if you really belief and train in what JC's Powers are and represent you will learn them. but dont exspect to fly tommorro just cuz you believe in JC's...

 

Ive manage to shock people, not everyperson on my first try like JC. but i have mange to shock them useing JC's technique explain in the vid. which is very clear if you know basic qi -gong breathing.

 

now what i would really like to learn is the Weight reduction, i cant find a manuel on that type of meditation.

i think more people need to practice there Foundation in martial arts..but most of you on here study Tao & meditation only, hoping to achieve powers...when your really pose to have a goal of Enlightenment.

 

 

-you do not have a soul,

you are a Soul & you have a BODY.

[Humble]

 

Ive manage to shock people, not everyperson on my first try like JC. but i have mange to shock them useing JC's technique explain in the vid. which is very clear if you know basic qi -gong breathing

Can you expand on that a bit? I'm awful curious about that particular method of energy projection.

[Phantom]

so you actually met JC??.....i use to be a little skeptical some years back but after i watch the video like 1000 times and advance in my on martial art training. i concluded that the human potiental is not being tapped by the general public , who find more ways of geting out of doin things for themself...Example. alot of people would rather watch football on tv , then to go out an play football. hence we see great skill but dont think its possible for us.

i think JC powers are real...and its not meet for everysingle person to learn easy and fast. so for him to give us the little hope and demotrations. is for those who are devouted and real to everyone and themself to learn and cultivate for themselfs.

if you really belief and train in what JC's Powers are and represent you will learn them. but dont exspect to fly tommorro just cuz you believe in JC's...

 

Ive manage to shock people, not everyperson on my first try like JC. but i have mange to shock them useing JC's technique explain in the vid. which is very clear if you know basic qi -gong breathing.

 

now what i would really like to learn is the Weight reduction, i cant find a manuel on that type of meditation.

i think more people need to practice there Foundation in martial arts..but most of you on here study Tao & meditation only, hoping to achieve powers...when your really pose to have a goal of Enlightenment.

 

 

-you do not have a soul,

you are a Soul & you have a BODY.

 

Hello!! doyou participate in the forum twilightzone?

[Meroe]

i personally believe that the reason that he has attained to such a level, he also elaborates on this in his book. is that, for the majority of Qigong practitioners, they cultivate the yang chi mostly, which is more of a flowing, radiating energy. whereas, he trains with yin chi as well, which is the agent of condensing the yang. which is kind of like pushing a river into a small tube instead of just the river itself, if that makes much sense lol. so basically he takes whatever yang that others cultivates, but instead he compresses it with yin. obviously the flow will be of a much higher strength than with the same amount as most others cultivate. but in all, yin chi isnt whats used for building spirit, because its the yang that creates similar awareness as living after death, which is was taught by my teacher, which correlates really well with what chang says. its basic concepts within the science of neidan.

[GrandmasterP]

There is a pathway between Grandmaster John Chang's undoubted cultivation and the agenda of the 'documentary' makers responsible for the YouTube clips.

[Meroe]

There is a pathway between Grandmaster John Chang's undoubted cultivation and the agenda of the 'documentary' makers responsible for the YouTube clips.

 

There's a few people who have met him here, and everything he says and demonstrates aligns perfectly with the potential within the internal science of neidan. what lineage do you practice?

Edited September 16, 2012 by Meroe

[GrandmasterP]

"Undoubted Cultivation" Grandmaster John Chang is recognised as such, there is no issue here.

Some of the ways in which he has been presented have given rise to heated debate. A middle path has yet to emerge.

Your personal question clearly indicates your stance on lineage and it is a commendable one

It is not my intention to challenge the belief system of anyone any more than one would engage in the fru fruitlesss discourse..

Your faith is an issue for yourself alone.

May it confer comfort and assurance to your path and my warmest best regards to your continued cultivation..

[flowing hands]

I think that he is frying up from the inside!