Anorgasmia and Taoist practices

[theurgy]

Dear Taobums,

 

(fyi: predominately sexually detailed post to follow)

 

Recently a dear friend confided in me that she has never experienced an orgasm with another person--ever. She has no problem achieving orgasms by herself with or without a vibrator. Her sexual history is odd in that she has slept with a decent amount of guys, lots of one night stands, etc but she reported that she has never really liked any of them. She also self-identifies as bisexual but hasn't had nearly as much experience with women. She has even participated in group sex and attended sex parties. I also suspect she watches a fair amount of porn.

 

Now I have some hunches as to what's going on psychologically but the odd thing is she comes from quite a good home despite parents divorcing at around age 8. Despite this, she is quite well-balanced and she also seems to be free of sexually traumatic events or abuse of any kind. What's interesting is the only other girl I know to have a similar condition (completely anorgasmic with vaginal stimulation even with clitoral stimulation at the same time), also did a lot of getting drunk and sleeping around. She on the other hand was most certainly sexually abused as a child. Yet she could still have orgasms from clitoral stimulation by either a man or woman.

 

So that's the background to this issue. I'm wondering if there are ANY Taobums out there who have encountered this type of female anorgasmia and if there are some specific Taoist practices you would recommend? I've seen a lot of advice advocating the use of vibrators during intercourse but to me this doesn't address the underlying energy blockages. Note: this is not a question of this woman being more clitorally stimulated: she cannot have an orgasm no matter what if someone else (male or female) is involved in any way. I've never heard of this before. I suspect there are some specific practices that can help but am not experienced enough in Taoist methods.

 

Thanks for reading.

[joeblast]

Is ther any depression? Endocrine imbalances can cause that...but other psychoses or abuse isn't necessarily going to cause that (an ex of mine was borderline personality disorder and sexually abused as a child, but she was...well, completely free of inhibition so perhaps that's some flip side manifestation.) From my observation and experience, depression, general unhappiness, fear, uptightness...and taking antidepressants are all things that seem to cause stuff like this, absent some formative trauma.

 

.02

[konchog uma]

meditation is generally the best tool to familiarize oneself with their own psyche.

 

my GF used to be promiscuous and anorgasmic, then when she started to have orgasms, a whole lot of crap arose for her to work on, psychologically and energetically. She feels that some of it does not originate in this lifetime, for what thats worth. I add that to introduce the idea that things might not be so linear, or tied to childhood experiences.. karma and unresolved traumas might be at play. But i am not trying to convince, just to explain her feelings on the subject.

 

But through meditation (she favors formless meditation, beyond any particular tradition, and defaults back to shamatha w/out support, focusing on the breath, when she can't sustain the formless meditative state) she has been able to resolve a lot of her issues and increase her connection with herself and with me, and with healthy pleasure and love.

[hieronimus]

edited: there are times when shutting my keyboard-mouth is better.

 

Blessings

Edited June 29, 2012 by hieronimus

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I wonder if it has something to do with a promiscuous person having highly revved up desires for this or that experience which they achieve in fantasy but cannot achieve in reality.

 

When they can come down and appreciate mundane reality they might be able to reach the heights and fulfillment that escaped them when they were chasing the clouds.

 

Also, being disconnected from partners, as in drunken one night stands when the guy might be such a porn addict that he's not even paying attention to her, could also make it difficult to find that presence and connection in most cases.

 

Meditation sounds like a very good approach, maybe Tai Chi with focus on presence?

 

 

$0.02

[thelerner]

As a third answer, I'd throw out maybe its not connected to the past and its not psychological at all. Its just the way she is and maybe its not so bad. Just include a vibrator and some extra time in the love making and there should be no problem for any party involved.

 

That's not to say other answers shouldn't be explored, but if they're not the solution, maybe there is nothing wrong, sexual responses vary greatly between people.

[Sloppy Zhang]

It could also be the type of lovers she's with, and the type of sexual acts they perform.

 

I don't remember the exact statistics, but the average time for a man to get aroused and orgasm is about 7 minutes. For women it's almost 14.

 

I've been with girls who almost take the better part of an hour to reach orgasm even when they are masturbating (they know how it feels and where exactly to touch). Now imagine having a partner, who can't feel what she feels, try to do the same thing.

 

If she's with a guy and they are engaging in sexual activity, even in intercourse, if that's not what she's needing that night to orgasm, or if that's not what she's used to, then she isn't going to orgasm.

 

Everyone is different and has different needs and different things feel good to them, even on a day by day basis. Some women can get off without penetration. Some can't get off without it. Sometimes it depends on how they feel at that moment.

 

If a woman doesn't orgasm just because she's being penetrated, even if there's clitoral stimulation too, there's nothing necessarily wrong with her. Maybe it just takes longer for her (14 minutes is a long time to do something, even on a good day, and that's assuming you know what you're doing, it can take two or three times as long since you can't feel what she feels).

 

It takes time to know someone and know what they like in an intimate encounter. If you're doing one night stands, or heat of the moment sex, it might feel good, but might not necessarily result in orgasm. Especially if the guy pounds away and cums when she's only halfway to getting fully aroused!

 

A series of one night stands is hardly enough time to get to know someone. Maybe she'll run into a guy who's highly experienced and knows how to please different women, so he can try different things. Or guess what? Maybe he won't care if she gets off, and just cares about him.

 

Sometimes it takes a long time, a lot of failure, and a lot of embarrassment to get to know what someone likes sexually. It requires opening up to someone in a VERY intimate space. Sometimes it requires you to verbalize things you never have had to verbalize (you don't have to explain to yourself what feels good and why when you masturbate, but you do have to explain that to your partner).

 

If you're trying to get your partner to open up sexually, and compound this if they DO have issues, it might take a LOT of time to get them to be open, and a lot of time to verbalize, and a lot of time to experiment. And fail. And be embarrassed. And get frustrated. And get angry.

 

Buuuuuuuuuut it's worth it. I think. Because orgasms are fun, and it's great when both partners can enjoy as many as they want from their partner

[thetaoiseasy]

When your energy levels are low, its hard to orgasm. Period. When your energy levels are high, everything is stimulating and you easily orgasm, because you are sensitive to changes in energy.

 

Even a girl's smile will be enough to satisfy a guy with high energy levels. Similarly, a shoulder to lean on will be enough for a girl with high energy levels.

 

She should quit masturbation and sex and dump that porn for awhile. Let the sexual energy build up. She has become too insensitive.

 

That is the most natural practice and the best practice. I don't think any esoteric tantric or taoist sexual practices are necessary -- that just causes attachment to sex even more, and ironically, causes even greater desensitization.

 

But for someone who you described as promiscuous and uses porn a lot, do you think that's a feasible proposition? No, she won't take the suggestion. Her sensitivity to these issues are too low, as are her energy levels. How many days has it been since she didn't have or think about sex? Probably very few.

 

That's my honest answer. I respect her complex history and variability in this matter, however.

Edited June 29, 2012 by thetaoiseasy

[mike 134]

She has no problem achieving orgasms by herself with or without a vibrator.

 

That says it right there. It's 100 % psychological, not physiological. Otherwise she would not be able to orgasm at all. Counseling may help. I suspect she may have control issues. She is in control by herself, but she feels she loses this sense of control around others. If she opens herself more, learns to trust and love, then maybe that might solve her problem. Her promiscuity is not the problem. Rather it is a symptom of unfulfilled love. It's an attempt at compensation.

 

I don't remember the exact statistics, but the average time for a man to get aroused and orgasm is about 7 minutes. For women it's almost 14.

 

That is also a possibility. Again, its not physiological.

Edited June 29, 2012 by mike 134

[Birch]

Counterpoint. No diagnosis. Get her to check out the 'Sexual Teachings of the White Tigress', not because of practices to adopt but about a perspective. Different.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Counterpoint. No diagnosis. Get her to check out the 'Sexual Teachings of the White Tigress', not because of practices to adopt but about a perspective. Different.

 

Wait, is that the one where a White Tigress gets a bunch of Jade Dragons to feed off of that caused a bit of a stir a while back?

 

Never read the book, but remember a couple of people talking a lot about it.

 

Certainly sounds different

[theurgy]

Dear Taobums,

 

Some great thoughts and advice on this thread. Knowing this individual as I do, I feel it is mostly a control issue. I'm going to suggest meditation to her as a means of letting go and surrendering to emptiness. I will also look into the books recommended.

 

+theurgy+

[Birch]

Wait, is that the one where a White Tigress gets a bunch of Jade Dragons to feed off of that caused a bit of a stir a while back?

 

Never read the book, but remember a couple of people talking a lot about it.

 

Certainly sounds different

 

If you're intrigued, have a look:-) It is different, which is why I suggested it in this thread:-)

[Sloppy Zhang]

Dear Taobums,

 

Some great thoughts and advice on this thread. Knowing this individual as I do, I feel it is mostly a control issue. I'm going to suggest meditation to her as a means of letting go and surrendering to emptiness. I will also look into the books recommended.

 

+theurgy+

 

Don't take this the wrong way, but....

 

Sounds to me like you've got some control issues yourself. Like a need to "fix" someone so they operate how you think they "should"... in this case, being able to orgasm with a man rubbing/penetrating her.

 

Just let her go at her own pace. Meditation isn't always the answer and even if it is, it's not always for everyone. If she's really wild and crazy and masturbates like a fiend, meditation might not be interesting enough for her.

 

Maybe it'd be better to work on the types of relationships she forms. For instance, a series of one night stands isn't going to give her the opportunity to find another person to connect to and learn to trust. Instead, it'll give her reasons why NOT to trust someone, continue to fuck whoever comes along and to finish herself off before or after the fact.

 

 

Or hey, maybe the med will help her and she'll really enjoy it and she'll be "fixed".

[suninmyeyes]

I know a young woman who is in a 4 year ongoing relationship and has never had an orgasam with the man she is with. She has admitted to be naturally quite tense and has history of depression.

Her explanation is that she cannot relax and her partner is rather inexpirienced/insensitive to her needs sexually. She is his first partner ever .

 

About the girl in OP.

As Sloppy said 'maybe its the type of the relationships she forms'. Loads of cold one night stands will harden her emotionally eventually .

Once she manages to feel relaxed , secure , loved , manages to trust her partner she will have better chance to orgasam with the man. Loving partner can help a lot by learning different ways on how to sexually please a women and be patient and perserviring.

She could work on her personality and looking deeply and honestly to any issue she may have in relationships and any possible patterns that are occuring and what can she do about it.

There must be a form of fear involved , prehapes manifesting under guise of something else, as fear causes tension - which will cause inability to orgasam.

 

PS the urgy - no dont tell her to surrender to emptiness, it is more important to learn to comunicate with her lover deeply and learn to form a trusting, loving relationship. This is a base - one cannot run before one can walk.

 

Wishing best.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I know a young woman who is in a 4 year ongoing relationship and has never had an orgasam with the man she is with. She has admitted to be naturally quite tense and has history of depression.

Her explanation is that she cannot relax and her partner is rather inexpirienced/insensitive to her needs sexually. She is his first partner ever .

 

On that note it might also be hard for the guy to open up too. For the girl I'm with now, she was really hard get to orgasm. She masturbated a lot and had never gotten off with a guy (I'm the third she's been with). There were a lot of times when she just didn't cum, or after a while, she just got frustrated sexually and didn't want to do anything at all.

 

There is a lot of pressure on the guys' end to "be a good lover" and to "have the experience" to please women. So it might be easier for a guy to just bang her and be like "well you didn't cum, that's your problem." It's an ego saving counter to admitting the fact that you don't know what you're doing, that you're inexperienced, or that you don't know your partner well enough, all of which can be pretty embarrassing or depressing.

 

So it might also help to tell the girls to tell the guys what they like and what they don't like. Which, again, requires opening up and putting things into words you've never had to put into words before. And guys need to not be so afraid of failure. But hey...