Mantak Chia - Looking For A Clear Picture

[Steven King]

Hello all,

 

I have read here and on other forums about how much of a fraud Mantak Chia is. Yet on this and other forums, people are passing along his works, so it's a bit confusing.

 

I have a great number of his books in PDF format and will soon be going through them. I'd like to get a clear picture, would like to know what teachings, if any, to look out for. Any feedback would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

Steven King

[onebir]

I don't think he's a fraud. But I'm not sure he's selective enough approving people to teach his material - in part thanks to the huge industry he's spawned. And I think the material in his books would be difficult to learn correctly on your own - at best many years work, at worst somewhat dangerous (there's some debate about "chi-packing" here somewhere).

[gendao]

Yet on this and other forums, people are passing along his works, so it's a bit confusing.

Lol, you do realize that this whole forum was founded by disaffected Mantak Chia "defectors?"

 

I think he does provide a lot of good theoretical info and reference material. However, I am skeptical of his own abilities and actual practices. But, it doesn't have to be all-or-nothing..

 

The key is to know what to take and what to leave from every source.

[Dragon X]

i have a large collection of Mantak Chia books. (as well as other books on taiji) And i was taught by one of his students (my sifu either was taught by Mantak Chia or 1 of his

senior students.) Yes, Mantak Chia books are very informative. But i doubt if Mantak Chia himself is all that good. i am no longer learning from my former Sifu cause he has a medical practice that takes up a lot of his time.

 

personally if i had to train with another sifu it would not be Mantak Chia i would rather

learn from one of his senior instucters. as far as i know he (Chia) teaches 2 taiji styles a long boxing yang style that resembles yang banhou form and a short fist called

the "13 movement fist" which is my favorite style and 1 i would like to persue under a good teacher or sifu

 

personally i feel Mantak Chia is sort of a rip off and not realli all that good. but his books are very very good. As for the packing it is part of iron shirt and part of my practice but without a teacher i would not advise anyone to try it

 

hope this helps if you have other question please ask ............

 

 

San Bao

Edited June 30, 2012 by Dragon X

[Trunk]

On 6/30/2012 at 12:41 PM, Steven King said:

.., would like to know what teachings, if any, to look out for. Any feedback would be appreciated.

Though there is a lot of hit 'n miss in that system, the most injury-prone parts of that system:

- Healing Love

- Iron Shirt

Check out those two sections in my website, alchemicaltaoism.com, where there are HT instructors warning about those two areas.

 

The rare part of that system that I feel comfortable recommending is Tao Yin. It is safe, therapeutic, effective.

 

- Trunk

 

~ edit 2018 ~

Website mostly down, above info is now available through this link:

 

Edited May 10, 2018 by Trunk

[thelerner]

I took a beginners class with him many years ago. I don't think he's a fraud. I think he'd be a great teacher, the problem may be he got so famous so fast, he not the guy teaching a weekly class in NY anymore. Learning esoteric energy meditations from books doesn't cut it, videos aren't much better. Most people lack foundational experience and the feedback only a live teacher can give.

 

People I respect say he has juice and have gone far with his methods. I find healing tao throws too many techniques at student too quickly, which may be my own bias towards simplicity. I also find it promises too much, though they may not be lying but rather basing the claim on there best students and not the average.

 

Chia was an early pioneer in showing the West taoist energy techniques. IMO his role should be honored, not chastened.

Edited July 1, 2012 by thelerner

[Sloppy Zhang]

I would definitely check out Trunk's Alchemical Taoism site.

 

The big critique that the site points out that I find spot on is there doesn't seem to be enough overt emphasis on the stillness/emptiness practice/meditations. They may very well be implied, but if you're just getting the practice from a book, you might not get that implication.

 

The stillness/emptiness aspect of practice is important to make sure all the energies you work with get balanced out after, and it helps make sure that, as you start working with energies, you don't blow out your system.

 

That said, there ARE a lot of details in Chinese energetic/medicine practice in general. The feeling I get from Chia's books is they can (CAN) tend towards encyclopedic. And it's easy for someone who's pretty analytic to get in there and try to analyze everything and do it all. So in the best case you're doing a bunch of mental stuff and effectively doing nothing, and in the worse case you are getting energetically all out of whack.

 

Some practices (especially the sexual ones) are pretty high energy, and they DO work, but only for people who are appropriately prepared for them. If you've done the work, you might be ready. If you haven't, then you might get hurt. If you're studying on your own, and you don't have a lot of experience, you might get yourself hurt.

 

As vortex said: "The key is to know what to take and what to leave from every source."

 

And that just comes from experience.

 

If there's something in Chia's material that interests you, look it up. For instance, the microcosmic orbit is something lots of practices work with. Not exclusively, but they do recognize it as a very useful path to circulate energy along. So it'd be worth reading up on it. Maybe try it out in your own practices. The sexual stuff might also be good to know about, even if you don't use it.

 

If you're ever unsure, give it a read just to know. And if you're going to practice, practice a little less than a little more to avoid injury.

Edited July 1, 2012 by Sloppy Zhang

[dawei]

I have had very little direct experience or exposure to Chia's methods. Although I do have lots of his materials as e-books. While I do think some criticism and warning of some of his materials is warranted (particularly the semen practices), I also feel he is much more maligned then he deserves. He has dedicated his life to this art and whether he himself and/or the insatiable desire of practitioners for such stuff produced a media production craze, I don't know. But there is the law of supply and demand even in this.

 

I like his healing sounds and inner smile book. His Iron Shirt material seems good. He stirred the sexual pot and attracted much attention with both his semen retention and open love approaches. I think the former needs some due diligence of warning; Personally, I would not attempt what he writes. In the latter aspect, ask his ex-wife about his propensity for sexual energy; There is a reason they bitterly divorced. He is not a man of the cloth who took some vows, but she may of thought he was going to at least only use the Ox to plow her soil... he-said, she-said... as the sexual-energy-qigong-

 

Like with any energy work you read: It is just words, it is not a teacher at your side. And I don't mean a teacher to only direct you but to fix your bone-headed, self-determined, I-can-do-because-I-read-a-Chia-book energy problem which arises.

 

A confession: In my early days of too much exuberant excitement over the experience of Qi energy, I experimented a little too much... Without a Qigong master to 'right' the energy problems I created from reading books... well, maybe a few know my point. I just don't want future practitioners to learn it the hard way when there is really a much easier way...

[unmike]

Hello all,

 

I have read here and on other forums about how much of a fraud Mantak Chia is. Yet on this and other forums, people are passing along his works, so it's a bit confusing.

 

I have a great number of his books in PDF format and will soon be going through them. I'd like to get a clear picture, would like to know what teachings, if any, to look out for. Any feedback would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

Steven King

 

As the most thorough and through and through skeptic imaginable, completely disbelieving of anything "supernatural", imagine my surprise when after smoking cannabis one day a few years after reading Multi-Orgasmic man, qi sensations showed up in the exact manner described (though the sensations were surprisingly different than I had imagined). After playing with them for a few weeks and doing only a portion of the preparatory practices, I managed to utilize union with a lady to supercharge the process and achieve something I've only ever seen referenced in his book Dark Room Enlightenment and possibly Secret of the Golden Flower: endogenous synthesis of MAOIs and eventually DMT. For someone who had no conception of psychedelics at the time, it was an intense and mystifying process (I tripped BALLS on and off for multiple hours at the heights of multiorgasmic ecstasy, and wandered the bardo, and made contact with my higher self [All things I either specifically disbelieved in or had no notions of prior to that day]). The system works, even if people have beef with its flavor. Have genuinely good and pure intent and intentions, practice the foundation exercises extensively, tread slowly and cautiously upon the path, and SMILE.

[Age Sage]

I had already been training in internal MAs for some time before I read two of Chia's books, "Iron Shirt Chi Kung" and "The Internal Structure of Tai Chi." I am not a Taoist, so I tended to ignore the esoteric Taoist symbolism, but the descriptions and instructions in practical qigong principles were pretty straightforward and for the most part they complemented and mirrored things I already was training and doing.

 

So, no complaints about the practical stuff.

 

However, I did read that Chia's books are actually manuscripts he took from his teacher and published under his own name, and that he doesn't himself have the skills that the books' contents would imply. In fact, IIRC, one of the places I read that accusation was in a bunch of reviews of Chia's books on Amazon.com, from former students. Whether the accusation is true or not, I can't verify, and I thought maybe someone here would be closer to the source and able to comment.

[Cheshire Cat]

However, I did read that Chia's books are actually manuscripts he took from his teacher and published under his own name, and that he doesn't himself have the skills that the books' contents would imply.

 

If this is true, then I am grateful to Mantak for sharing his materials because I have the impression that some sort of ancient (yet distorted in hundred of years) knowledge was passed trough them.

 

If Mantak were one of those guys who refuse to share their knowledge by saying that it can be dangerous, then I would be very sorry.

[deci belle]

Hello all,

 

I have read here and on other forums about how much of a fraud Mantak Chia is. Yet on this and other forums, people are passing along his works, so it's a bit confusing.

 

I have a great number of his books in PDF format and will soon be going through them. I'd like to get a clear picture, would like to know what teachings, if any, to look out for. Any feedback would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

Steven King

 

I wonder where these rumors come from. How much of a fraud must one be before one is really a fraud. I attribute these lingering odors to those who have left the scene. If in doubt, study the books he wrote while he still had a day-job.

 

I suppose some people felt competitive or incompetent in light of his teaching.

 

I would consider practicing his most basic, non-martial subject-matter to start with. I doubt anyone chose to have issues with those books. I studied and practiced his basic book about refining vitality which included opening the active and passive channels.

[Age Sage]

Maybe the fraud part isn't in the contents of his books, but in the allegations that those contents are not his to give, but stolen from his teacher. Then he would be a fraud because he does not himself have the knowledge and skill, and because he took and published something, under his own name, that was not his.

 

No one has addressed that question, yet, as to whether it is true that he did that (stole manuscripts).

[Bubbles]

No one has addressed that question, yet, as to whether it is true that he did that (stole manuscripts).

 

I can't say about all his books. What I know is that his Cosmic Healing I and II books are said to be plagiarism. A lawsuit has been filled by Choa Kok Sui.

For your information : My link

 

As a side note and in case someone has missed it, Trunk's alchemical taoism website is a mandatory ressource for anyone willing to have a informed and at-your-own-risk practice of Mantak Chia's "system". I know it has been repeated ++ times here, but the more, the better.

[Age Sage]

Thanks, bubbles. That was informative.

 

I can't say about all his books. What I know is that his Cosmic Healing I and II books are said to be plagiarism. A lawsuit has been filled by Choa Kok Sui.

For your information : My link

 

As a side note and in case someone has missed it, Trunk's alchemical taoism website is a mandatory ressource for anyone willing to have a informed and at-your-own-risk practice of Mantak Chia's "system". I know it has been repeated ++ times here, but the more, the better.

[Dr. Dcup]

Hi all,

 

I don't frequent here much but I wanted to add my 2 cents. Master Chia in my experience and opinion is a very talented, skillful, and smart teacher. I have personally witnessed him manipulating chi in different ways. I do not doubt his skills. If you want to really find out he usually does world tour workshops once a year and is in the States on both coasts during those times.

 

Master Chia learned from his teacher from a long traditional line. He undertook the task of bringing the traditional teachings to the west. Before his books came out (1982) the only thing around was Charles Luk's Taoist Yoga and that is not easy to practice from. There was nothing else, so he was a pioneer in the west. That being said alchemy and for that matter I would say life is an experimental science. Master Chia besides also having other yogic teachers that he learned from decided to improve on his learning (most would want to too)and accumulate and experiment with new teachings that work and fit well from other different sources.

 

So as for his books, well his English grammer isn't the best. Usually he has an editor/collaborator that does his books with him. Are there dangerous techniques in some of the books, yes. The power lock comes to mind as dangerous. Is all of the material in all the books original from him, no but most is. As to the Cosmic Healing books being plagirized, maybe or it may be so. If it is so it is not right but it still doesn't detract from him being a skillful teacher, etc.

 

"You can make up your own damn mind."

 

Regards.

[EagleShen]

IMO be very careful using his books, it's really easy to get a lot of energy stuck in the head and/or cause blockages in the perineum with his approach, especially in regard to sexual cultivation.

 

His approach is very Yang, and doesn't have anywhere enough of the foundational Yin aspect of daoist practice. There's a lot of doing and moving Qi rather than being and allowing Qi. Perhaps it's different learning from him.

 

I had a lot of problems learning his stuff, the main one being a lot of energy stuck in my head - it did inspire me to spend 7 years doing martial arts to egt grounded tho. I've worked with a number of guys who have had similar problems.

 

If you do dealt want to do his stuff, learn some good taoist meditation too. Some martial arts practice wouldnt hurt either.

[Chi Boy]

So I ordered The MultiOrgasmic Man by Chia.

 

Yall think Ill be okay to just get to work on it when it comes in. Im gonna be doing doorknocking for my job this summer so I was aslo wondering if there is a better exercise to begin with like the inner smile. Please help

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

"If you do dealt want to do his stuff, learn some good taoist meditation too. Some martial arts practice wouldnt hurt either."

-----

 

That's interesting.

 

Because in my recent review of several of Mantak Chia books, these things also seemed obvious to me.

 

That he didn't really have a heavy gongfu or taoist background, per se.

 

So, even in the photos, I see that some parts of postures look different than when gongfu trained people do them, etc.

 

But I have no bad or good opinion of him, and his books and materials would certainly provide thinking material for people new to the subject, and are very comprehensive in their own way.

 

In terms of learn from books and video, I feel that the most important point is for someone involved to understand the basic principles of whatever is being learned.

 

This is not always clear in books or videos, for various reasons.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Trunk]

So I ordered The MultiOrgasmic Man by Chia.

 

In a system that is full of land mines, that book is often considered to be more disconnected from principle than most.  Not recommended.  imo, You'd do yourself a big favor if you throw Chia's sexual book/s and iron shirt book/s in the trash.  More info at the link:

 

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/30784-healing-tao-cautions/

[Jox]

If you stay in HT, go slow ... maybe just inner smile, healing sounds, LDT breathing and simple standing tree for the first year ... Maybe to learn five animals and Wu Ji gong form ...  And ... instructions from an experienced teacher will help a lot ...  

 

My two cents ...  

Edited May 3, 2016 by Jox

[Starjumper]

Some of Moretalk Chia's stuff is just plain stupid and a lot of the rest is dangerous.  A lot of his material was 'stolen' from other teachers by a couple of his students who visited for a couple of weeks and then who wrote the books, which were then published using Moretalk's name.  He got popular writing books about sex, always a popular subject, with a lot of colorful illustrations.  I went to one of his seminars and it was 98% blah blah and 2% practice, which is how he actually teaches very little, not to mention, what he does teach is mostly useless or dangerous.  I've seen one of his victims, whose health was ruined by doing what was in one of his books, and I've heard of others.

 

Some of his stuff is not dangerous, like the six healing sounds and the Zhan Zhuang.  His inner smile is actually a fundamentalist bastardization of the real thing.  In any case, those practices did not originally come from him, he passes them along for money.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Starjumper

[ChiForce]

I read his Awaken Healing Energy Through the Tao.  This was when I have already awakened my Kundalini energy years ago.  I was wondering why I could not get my kundalini energy to arouse up again.      There are reasons which are beyond here.  Anyway, the first time I followed his instructions, I managed to complete the MCO.  The sensation was very strong.  Then, on the third and fourth days, it wasn't doing anything.  Conceptually, he wrote them simple enough to give you some general ideas and framework to conceptualize your MCO energy pathways. 

 

His other works are too overly complicated and to the point being useless.......  The best approach for me to complete the MCO and to generate my Chi is just being mindfulness and to rest my mind on my various chakras locations.  The key here is being effortless.....is even better when you can complete the MCO in your sleep...through your dreams....hehehehe 

Edited March 20, 2018 by ChiForce

[Wells]

2 hours ago, Starjumper said:

Some of Moretalk Chia's stuff is just plain stupid and a lot of the rest is dangerous.  A lot of his material was 'stolen' from other teachers by a couple of his students who visited for a couple of weeks and then who wrote the books, which were then published using Moretalk's name.  He got popular writing books about sex, always a popular subject, with a lot of colorful illustrations.  I went to one of his seminars and it was 98% blah blah and 2% practice, which is how he actually teaches very little, not to mention, what he does teach is mostly useless or dangerous.  I've seen one of his victims, whose health was ruined by doing what was in one of his books, and I've heard of others.

 

Some of his stuff is not dangerous, like the six healing sounds and the Zhan Zhuang.  His inner smile is actually a fundamentalist bastardization of the real thing.  In any case, those practices did not originally come from him, he passes them along for money.

 

 

 

Old boy, but young chicks still pay good money to get sexual massage by Multiorgasmic Master Mantak, how about you?

Everybody finds the right master for himself/herself and the fools find Mantak Chia...so it's no miracle that he likely makes more money than all the other masters on the market combined!

The guy is probably some sort of a genius and he seemingly mastered something that the other masters didn't!

 

Edited March 20, 2018 by Wells

[Starjumper]

16 minutes ago, Wells said:

so it's no miracle that he likely makes more money than all the other masters on the market combined!

 

Hmm, lucky guy, sexual massage on cuties.  What red blooded man wouldn't want to do that?

 

... but then, there's no follow through, thats's the tough part.

 

Yep, that's what he's a master of, making money, he's da man for that.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Starjumper