The Roman Catholic Church is in decline, but still VERY wealthy

[Wayfarer64]

Thank you all for this wonderous response... So much insight & wisdom on this site...For my way of thinking, it's the whole "Boss" idea that needs to be left behind... Going with the natural flow of nature is what we have been missing in our development - industrialization and dehumanization are rampant. I just wanted to note that there seems to be a geomorphic will that people pick up on that is changing how power is manifested through our various societies...

 

It may be that society's pendulum will swing farther to the Yin side of nurturing rather than subdueing...than will be uncomfortible for some... before a more natural balance is reached -but without the will to protect "Mother Earth" we have no sustainable future to fore-see...Patriarchy has failed us in almost every instance...

 

Also , as I've written here before I think it highly possible that Jesus was an incarnation of a Buddha, the 3 wise man story ties in with the searching for reincarnated Buddhas too...And the teachings of love and compassion are directly tied to Buddhism...

 

Thank you for these great insightful thoughts...

[Ulises]

Im just of an opinion that grouping things as yin or yang,is a false grouping.

Saying a man is part feminine is the idea I think confused.

 

Some men are aggressive, that doesnt make them more manlike.

Some women are aggressive, it doesnt make them more manlike either.

 

Men collectively , in the entire spectrum they span define what manlikeness is,

which includes gay , transgender, kind ,passive , nurturing men.

 

Leaders tend to be aggressive types, even if the leadership is matriarchal.

Yes, women as a whole (in the situation they hold now) tend to be less violent,

but again non-violent men are not womanly.

 

By telling folks that 'manliness is violent' then you perpetuate the

aggressive behavior of men who do not want to be labelled feminine.

Let women express thier true natures and you free them from subservience

(where that pervades ,, it aint here in the US!)

 

Drop the stereotypes and promote better behaviors.

Drop the lumping of yin things and yang things

and you get a clearer idea of what actually IS true.

 

If you did that ,, I am not sure what your conceptry would look like,

I might even agree with it.

 

Stosh

 

 

who said that "manliness is violent", that is an absurd cliche!!!

again, the (multifaceted) Femenine and Masculine are in all of us, as a palette of colors, a continuum each one (the name of the game is complexity...)but that dosen't mean that there aren't polarities...AND, let's not forget that polarities are part of an unbroken circularity (so we are not doing "groupings", just useful, operative distinctions of a seamless whole: "One Yin, one Yang, that's Tao")

 

http://ciis.academia.edu/RobinRobertson/Papers/146815/Something_from_Nothing_G._Spencer-Browns_Laws_of_Form_cybernetic_version_of_article_

Edited July 5, 2012 by Ulises

[Wayfarer64]

I'm seeing the Yin & the Yang also having a common state of being as if the two seperate are also always "two" united & create a triad in the realm of nature... able to function as sperate and united forces within each life form, as well as the geomorphic whole...Everything is all one thing... an expanding moment of life ever changing and becoming -the big bang is still happening, expanding every moment at a fantastic rate...

[Apech]

who said that "manliness is violent", that is an absurd cliche!!!

again, the (multifaceted) Femenine and Masculine are in all of us, as a palette of colors, a continuum each one (the name of the game is complexity...)but that dosen't mean that there aren't polarities...AND, let's not forget that polarities are part of an unbroken circularity (so we are not doing "groupings", just useful, operative distinctions of a seamless whole: "One Yin, one Yang, that's Tao")

 

http://ciis.academia...ion_of_article_

 

I think maybe the confusion comes when people mix up the idea of men and women (real complex beings) and male and female polarity e.g. yang and yin.

 

I don't see how here on a Taoist discussion board we can say that yin/yang is not a valid polarity - provided we understand it. But what for instance the I Ching points to is that 'old yang' ... that is very or completely yang and old yin are unstable and signify a condition which is about to change. Whereas young yin/yang is a stable condition which while being either yin or yang holds the opposite (complementary) within it.

 

The worst excesses of a patriarchy would be old yang ... and because of inherent instability bound to be temporary (although temporary might mean historically long period).

[Stosh]

I think maybe the confusion comes when people mix up the idea of men and women (real complex beings) and male and female polarity e.g. yang and yin.

 

I don't see how here on a Taoist discussion board we can say that yin/yang is not a valid polarity - provided we understand it.

 

Yin and yang are not forces.

Wood is not an element.

A person cannot make themselves literally invisible

one cannot astrally project themselves anywhere

a person cant throw chi around like a weapon

Nobody can levitate

Nobody can do telekinesis

Nobody is immortal

 

Science moved on in 2300 years ,

it is the way that folks found to ascertain ,what is true

from what is false ,in the objective realm of the world.

It doesnt work for the subjective realm of the mind

nor is it good at making spiritual conclusions very well at all,

but it does decribe the behavior of masses and energies very well

in the scenario of our daily lives.

 

And just because folks want to benefit from the wisdom

made available to them by their ancestors regarding their spiritual paths

doesnt mean they should ignore the progress of physics chemistry

psychology sociology etc that has marched onward in other venues.

Stosh

[ChiDragon]

 

And just because folks want to benefit from the wisdom

made available to them by their ancestors regarding their spiritual paths

doesn't mean they should ignore the progress of physics chemistry

psychology sociology etc that has marched onward in other venues.

Stosh

 

We are in resonance with the same wavelength........

[Ulises]

Yin and yang are not forces.

Wood is not an element.

A person cannot make themselves literally invisible

one cannot astrally project themselves anywhere

a person cant throw chi around like a weapon

Nobody can levitate

Nobody can do telekinesis

Nobody is immortal

 

Science moved on in 2300 years ,

it is the way that folks found to ascertain ,what is true

from what is false ,in the objective realm of the world.

It doesnt work for the subjective realm of the mind

nor is it good at making spiritual conclusions very well at all,

but it does decribe the behavior of masses and energies very well

in the scenario of our daily lives.

 

And just because folks want to benefit from the wisdom

made available to them by their ancestors regarding their spiritual paths

doesnt mean they should ignore the progress of physics chemistry

psychology sociology etc that has marched onward in other venues.

Stosh

 

 

the progress of science is leading to the vision of weird and weirder reality we live in, where the distinctions between the psychic and the "physical", the "objective" and the "subjective" are thinner and thinner...hyper-complexity, "information paradigm" (psychoid:including/trascending the dualism matter/psyche) and so forth and so on...the change of paradigm began a long time ago:

http://www.amazon.com/Atom-Archetype-Pauli-Letters-1932-1958/dp/0691012075

 

http://www.amazon.com/Quantum-Questions-Mystical-Writings-Physicists/dp/1570627681

 

...and more exciting paradigmatic change on the way...

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/QuantumJazzTaoofBiology.php

 

http://www.thepsilocybinsolution.com/darwins-unfinished-business.html

 

 

what was the most accurate predictive tool working with clients time and again that Stan Grof and Richard TArnas found...?: Archetypal Astrology!

 

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:-jbPlmXAn8AJ:www.stanislavgrof.com/pdf/Richard%2520Tarnas%2520and%2520Stan%2520Grof.pdf+archetypal+astrology+stan+grof&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiO40pIK3vUmHxOoVJFpTaJo0L_u6rxDvUTzuJISHWQtsMrSQjrPm8bkX09GrqvJXxcf1TY7rbXIUTskEcAUQ8n1P2cr_AIqfKIjOzwAsJe_NSNOcFSg1EATM4U3N8edtRWt80W&sig=AHIEtbTGnfMfSG-J5HYqwayHFcNkDJ8WYw

 

What happened to one of the most brilliant, ground breaking systemic/cybernetician psychologists in the world...?: "Magical" happenings that put Castaneda's to shame....

http://www.dailyom.com/library/000/002/000002572.html

 

We are re-discovering a world that is closer to the definition of "magical" that to any other definition...

Edited July 6, 2012 by Ulises

[Ulises]

"As children we are told/conditioned from very young age to dismiss our fantasies-to grow out of and grow up from such illusions and get with the "real world" (whose world?). Early educational and social-peer conditioning serves to wire our brain neurons into a particular set: a fixed pattern of receiving and interpreting the world. Thus we are literally hardwired into a specific reality paradigm and social operating system. Within this paradigm any thought of extrasensory perceptions are sneered at as childish nonsense (manufactured social peer pressure). Many of our early expressions of intuition are thus suppressed and stifled and replaced with "normal" thoughts and perceptions. Imaginative insights and visions are usually left to the eccentric artists, mystics, and fringe creative innovators. Much of our modern minds have been denied their left-right brain full function and pulled into a tight left-brain rational functioning that operates as mechanical, linear, competitive, and narrow.

 

The Modernity Project has fashioned a mind-set that is a highly focused and logical narrow-band receiver. This arrangement has been further strengthened by modern social institutions in order to suppress visionary and creative insights and our intuitive capacities. The abstract right brain, with its magical world of creative visionary thinking, has been sidelined. Much of this right-brain activity was the source for indigenous wisdom, shamanic practices, and similar traditions that modern materialism has mercilessly eliminated over the years. We have been conditioned to think of such "magical practices" as primitive, barbaric, and worthy of little more than Western colonialism and imperial rule.

 

The social institutions in our modern materialistic age act to influence us to reject anything extrasensory as a load of nonsense, wishful thinking, or New Age delusion. Thus with our left-hemisphere-dominated brain we live in the everyday world of matter: of material objects and external attractions. We are shown to exist as separate forces, as islands in a chaotic sea of physical and natural impacts, and at the whim of random neutral influences. Yet we now know that this is not the case...."

 

http://www.realitysandwich.com/quantum_consciousness_0

[Stosh]

"As children we are told/conditioned from very young age to dismiss our fantasies-to grow out of and grow up from such illusions and get with the "real world" (whose world?).'

 

My world and yours is the same objective reality.

You dont get one of your own to re-write.

Your subjective impression of it , however ,

is your own personal representation of it

and you can drag it as far away from

objective reality as you care to.

 

I do not see that escapism as indicative of acceptance.

But even if you prefer to not believe

the physical constraints of the objective world , you are still subject to them.

 

Stosh

Edited July 6, 2012 by Stosh

[Apech]

Yin and yang are not forces.

Wood is not an element.

A person cannot make themselves literally invisible

one cannot astrally project themselves anywhere

a person cant throw chi around like a weapon

Nobody can levitate

Nobody can do telekinesis

Nobody is immortal

 

Science moved on in 2300 years ,

it is the way that folks found to ascertain ,what is true

from what is false ,in the objective realm of the world.

It doesnt work for the subjective realm of the mind

nor is it good at making spiritual conclusions very well at all,

but it does decribe the behavior of masses and energies very well

in the scenario of our daily lives.

 

And just because folks want to benefit from the wisdom

made available to them by their ancestors regarding their spiritual paths

doesnt mean they should ignore the progress of physics chemistry

psychology sociology etc that has marched onward in other venues.

Stosh

 

I completely agree with most of what you are saying here. However I think all understanding is interpretive (hermeneutic) and so it is possible to examine reality through the lens of say yin/yang or the Wuxing and gain understanding.

 

I think the claims about siddhis ... levitation and so on are not worth focussing on for most of us ... they are fascinating of course but believing in them is a waste of time which brings no benefit ... it is better to focus on the idea that it is possible to develop higher/deeper levels of understanding of self and reality through spiritual practices... and from there just follow the path and see where it takes you.

 

I find science, particularly cutting edge stuff quite inspiring ... but it is good on 'how' but not good on 'why'.

 

 

[Stosh]

I completely agree with most of what you are saying here. However I think all understanding is interpretive (hermeneutic) and so it is possible to examine reality through the lens of say yin/yang or the Wuxing and gain understanding.

 

 

How do you think, considering yin and yang as 'forces'

sheds light on objective reality?

 

Yes things are defined to exist in part because they have limitations.

(if x then not y)

But folks group women with lakes and the moon etc etc

and there is no "force".

Its just a substitute paradigm for "good and bad" .

Science has not reached its zenith and pretending a 2300 year old

attempt at it was 'true' and everyone since then is deluded,,,

well it boggles me!

Im sure you already know the ancients of the west also had a similar stage

of development with their ideas of elements and virtues and the foundations of reason.

Its not like the east stumbled on some unusual jewels nobody else found.It is a stepping stone toward greater civilization thatn these subjects are encountered.

.but in the east there was more emphasis on looking

inward to the mind rather than outward to a humanlike god.

 

Stosh

Edited July 9, 2012 by Stosh

[Apech]

How do you think, considering yin and yang as 'forces'

sheds light on objective reality?

 

Yes things are defined to exist in part because they have limitations.

(if x then not y)

But folks group women with lakes and the moon etc etc

and there is no "force".

Its just a substitute paradigm for "good and bad" .

Science has not reached its zenith and pretending a 2300 year old

attempt at it was 'true' and everyone since then is deluded,,,

well it boggles me!

Im sure you already know the ancients of the west also had a similar stage

of development with their ideas of elements and virtues and the foundations of reason.

Its not like the east stumbled on some unusual jewels nobody else found.It is a stepping stone toward greater civilization thatn these subjects are encountered.

.but in the east there was more emphasis on looking

inward to the mind rather than outward to a humanlike god.

 

Stosh

 

Lot of assumptions in there ... including what I think. You seem to have made your mind up anyway and your first question appears rhetorical.

 

You are right in terms of history in that ideas like yin/yang and the elements are more or less universal in the ancient world. I take this to be more about a universal shared understanding than a grand delusion. But each to his own of course.

[michael245]

I like the the roman catholic church.All the rumours about the roman catholic church going around right now are untrue.I don't consider the sex energy as a symbol for a snake like the Indians do,their Indian culture is something seperate from European culture just like every culture is.

[Wayfarer64]

There are no true seperations in our shared reality, everything alive is part of the whole. Man made seperations have driven us apart.

 

The Roman Catholic Church is a manifestation of The Roman Empire. The bible was written hundreds of years after JC or his followers. It was created to promote the Empire not the teachings of The Rabbi Jesus - known as the Christ... WAKE UP!

 

And the internal rot of child-abuse is as real as a heart attack, as are the financial mis-dealings coming to light...

[Ulises]

[Protector]

Damn, Ulises, you just made this thread into a collection of people who suck at reading the Bible

 

BOTH READ BIBLE DAY AND NIGHT,

BUT THOU READ BLACK WHILE I READ WHITE

[markern]

http://www.menweb.org/femexpos.htm

[markern]

http://www.debunker.com/texts/goddess.html

 

http://www.debunker.com/patriarchy.html#goddess

 

Some realism about the claims of a matriarchal past.