Is all of this really true about QiGong?

[shaq786]

I want to know for real...I've done my own research and have read about 2nd hand stories about QiGong masters pushing away attackers without a single touch, you know what I'm talking about because all those videos are all over youtube. Even my own asian friend told me of a story where his grandfather and father sparred and the father could never touch the grandfather. But the grandfather never told him how to attain this power.

 

The only conclusions that I could come to from doing all this research is that yes this energy is real but you have to have some sort of rapport or connection with the person your are using it against in order for it to work. So for example, once I mastered it, I could use it against my friend, family member, coworker because they all know me, are close to me, or have some form of link to me. But if you put me up against Joe Schmo off teh street who doesn't know me, then he would not be affected by my QiGong energy. Tell me if this is true or not? Give me your take.

[ChiDragon]

But if you put me up against Joe Schmo off teh street who doesn't know me, then he would not be affected by my QiGong energy. Tell me if this is true or not? Give me your take.

 

I do not have such power but I understand that was not the case.

[dawei]

A few thoughts:

 

1. If they knew you (and potentially your idea of your power), then how did you separate out of your study the 'fear factor' they might possess?

2. Since you distinguish between those who know you and those who do not know you, how did you just your energy for such situations?

3. Do you have energy practices which deal with people you know vs people you do not know?

[shaq786]

I still dont understand either of your replies guys. I am asking a question. I am no expert here.

 

This is a question I am asking...

 

Does QiGong work against strangers like how it does in this youtube video?

 

[ChiDragon]

I still dont understand either of your replies guys. I am asking a question. I am no expert here.

 

This is a question I am asking...

 

Does QiGong work against strangers like how it does in this youtube video?

 

 

Yes, it does work against strangers or anybody. This is the way I understand it to answer your question.

[Jetsun]

I haven't seen any evidence that you can push people away with energy if they really want to attack you, I agree with your conclusion that the person has to be in rapport with the person. I have seen evidence of distance healing and energy transference but I haven't seen anything to say this can be used in a practical physical aggressive or defensive way.

[konchog uma]

empty force (lin kong jing) comes from standing practice (zhan zhuang) moreso than from qigong proper. I have heard stories of it that make it seem like it can be used by masters against their own students, or someone who their qi is familiar with, or who has some kind of condition of being affected <??>, but it doesn't work against joe shmoe on the streets, like in a brawl or something.

 

i am not an expert either, that is only a small answer that hopefully some more experienced bums can comment on.

 

thanks, more experienced bums!

[Jetsun]

cant link

Edited July 6, 2012 by Jetsun

[Mokona]

You can apply offensive energy techniques such as Dim Mak against anyone, it does not matter who, or the relationship they do or don't have with you. The problem your running up against on this board, is that it seems unlikely unless it has happened to you personally.

[z00se]

But if you put me up against Joe Schmo off teh street who doesn't know me, then he would not be affected by my QiGong energy. Tell me if this is true or not? Give me your take.

 

It is very real. You can see high level dans push over lots of people without touch. In a bbc documentry the guy does it to just joe blow on the street, just pulls him back. In aikido you can throw someone without touching them but this is a bit different. It's like you give them a hand to try to grab then you move it in a way that they're off balance and fall over. There is no chi in this.

[skydog]

Yeah its true but ask yourself..why you care so much? What is it you want?

 

I think special abilities all that are cool lol...but at the same time kind of leads to a "spiritual ego", In the end its impermanent and its only thought of as supernatural because we are tuaght theories of existence which imply the world is full of seperate unconnected things or created by one man which we are not a part of. Whereas if you believe in interconnection then this doesnt seem so weird.

[Protector]

You body doesn't end at your skin, you know

[Green Tiger]

It is very real. You can see high level dans push over lots of people without touch. In a bbc documentry the guy does it to just joe blow on the street, just pulls him back. In aikido you can throw someone without touching them but this is a bit different. It's like you give them a hand to try to grab then you move it in a way that they're off balance and fall over. There is no chi in this.

 

I wouldn't say there is 'no chi' in that sort of technique, just not the same sort of chi that is used when say, applying diagonal flying or brush knee and push.

 

Certainly, there are different types of chi that come with different circumstances and effects. The root is all the same though.

 

Good chi comes from being relaxed and firmly rooted, breathing deeply and evenly, moving gracefully from the center, and having a strong intention. If you have those factors working for you, whatever you do will have chi.

[Qigong15]

Shaq786 - I think we've all heard those stories. I've certainly heard my fair share of them.

 

But, have I ever witnessed it? Do I have direct experience of it?

 

No.

 

Personally I think there's a LOT of hot air in the martial arts, Qigong, energy arts world. Take what others tell you (including me!) with a pinch of salt.

 

One of the best examples of this can be seen here:

 

 

Trust your own experience...

 

Marcus

[thelerner]

I want to know for real...I've done my own research and have read about 2nd hand stories about Even my own asian friend told me of a story where his grandfather and father sparred and the father could never touch the grandfather. But the grandfather never told him how to attain this power.

In Ki-Aikido we'd work with touchless throws, done when an attacker was coming full force. Note the full force was a needed ingredient and not necessarily one that happens in a 'real' fight. It honestly worked on us, there was specific simpatico motion that was needed. In some ways its a matter of timing; a mundane explantion is its a powerful fake, yet there has to be something behind it, spirit/ki and that not so secret ingredient, experience.

 

With my instructor for example when touchless failed, within the same motion, the attacker would be clobbered because behind the fake was his ability to transfer the power of his whole body into his fingers. Thus his fingers would touch you with amazing force. In essence, you'd drop before touchlessly or get wiped out seemingly by fingers.

 

From my experience people didn't use touchless techniques in free style sparring. Its an interesting thing to learn but in most schools its a teacher on student kind of phenomena. Don't expect to see it in the MMA or on the streets.

[Stosh]

I think its untrue altogether, you cant throw energy bolts.

(Science has come a long way in 2300 years.)

 

But I might cooperate with an 'old man'

because I didnt want to endanger my grandfather.

 

Stosh

[orb]

I want to know for real...I've done my own research and have read about 2nd hand stories about QiGong masters pushing away attackers without a single touch, you know what I'm talking about because all those videos are all over youtube. Even my own asian friend told me of a story where his grandfather and father sparred and the father could never touch the grandfather. But the grandfather never told him how to attain this power.

 

The only conclusions that I could come to from doing all this research is that yes this energy is real but you have to have some sort of rapport or connection with the person your are using it against in order for it to work. So for example, once I mastered it, I could use it against my friend, family member, coworker because they all know me, are close to me, or have some form of link to me. But if you put me up against Joe Schmo off teh street who doesn't know me, then he would not be affected by my QiGong energy. Tell me if this is true or not? Give me your take.

 

There are 2 different situations:

1st category - is the psychological type of trick where the modern qigong masters can only do it to their students - btw the video that you mentioned shows exactly that. Although there are 2 non students watching it - the master never really shows them anything under the pretext that the energy is too powerful and they couldn't handle it. That is the most common pretext that you will find when dealing with these masters.

 

2nd Category - The real skill that works against Joe Schmoe and against anybody else. That's the kind that John Chang has and he is the only one that for some reason made it opened for a while to anybody and then changed his mind and doesn't teach it to non-asians anymore. There should be a few more guys like him in the world but we don't have access to them - in terms of learning the skill - you can still go and get a good demo but it would cost you an arm and a leg.

 

Conclusion - here on the taobums (and lots of other forums) if anybody claims that they have the power - they are refering to the 1st category - although they might try to assure you that it's the real deal. And they are not lying to you - the actually "believe" in that bs - that's why it works on them

[Sloppy Zhang]

I think there are different levels and different situations. Perhaps one thing a good master can do is obfuscate the situation. A scared opponent can also not perceive things clearly. Wide eyed gullible students are the same. Untrained third parties even more so.

 

There are certainly masters who have achieved a high level of physical skill. This can be seen in Judo and Aikido. For instance, look at Kyuzo Mifune:

 

 

Truly effortless throws which seem on par with Aikido. This level of skill only comes from practice and LOTS and LOTS of real experience. Any chi necessary? Doubtful.

 

It's physical skill and lots of experience. Now an older fellow who's good at misdirection can make it seem like he's using some mystical power when he's not. And can probably fool a lot of young people.

 

 

There are also masters who have developed powerful energy and can use this to augment their skills. For instance, at internal martial arts.

 

But there is a bit of a caveat too, because a lot of internal martial arts also have a HUGELY refined level of physical skill. Like, even if you JUST looked at their physical refinements, not even looking at chi, they are still HUGE steps beyond many less developed physical forms.

 

So when you combine that, again, you are looking at something very impressive. And again, with a little misdirection and some talking up, it can seem a lot more mystical than it is.

 

 

Then there are the truly mystical skills. Do I believe they are possible? Yes. Do I believe they are being used at any given moment by any given "master"? Not so sure.

 

There are the kinds where they work more on someone who is more "open" to them. A student, or an energetically aware person might be more susceptible.

 

But I also believe there are mystical powers that can be used on unaware, unwilling opponents. A discussion from long ago on this topic about Max doing it had a post, if I recall correctly, that this type can actually cause damage to the energetic structure of a person, so the demonstrations were always done on students. Maybe that's true maybe not. But it sounds reasonable enough if you believe it. Unfortunately means it also can't be tested outside of a real encounter, but then it's not a "test".

[z00se]

I think its untrue altogether, you cant throw energy bolts.

(Science has come a long way in 2300 years.)

 

But I might cooperate with an 'old man'

because I didnt want to endanger my grandfather.

 

Stosh

 

This is similar to somebody 50 years ago saying 'You can't use silicon to do math'. Now silicon can create life like experiences all within a computer game.

 

If you can shoot the energy out of your fingers, then you can just increase it more and more until eventually you can make holes in things without touching them. I definately believe it's possible.

 

Science is so far backward that it was only recently that it understood how a bee could flight. For many years a bee was scientificially unable to fly, yet there it was flying around.

[z00se]

 

2nd Category - The real skill that works against Joe Schmoe and against anybody else. That's the kind that John Chang has and he is the only one that for some reason made it opened for a while to anybody and then changed his mind and doesn't teach it to non-asians anymore. There should be a few more guys like him in the world but we don't have access to them - in terms of learning the skill - you can still go and get a good demo but it would cost you an arm and a leg.

 

Conclusion - here on the taobums (and lots of other forums) if anybody claims that they have the power - they are refering to the 1st category - although they might try to assure you that it's the real deal. And they are not lying to you - the actually "believe" in that bs - that's why it works on them

 

Thats not true.

 

There are lots of people you can learn from, and the best teacher is yourself. Wim hoff is the real deal and he has cheap classes. You can do a 10 day vipassana retreat with free food and accomadation for free. There are lots of cheap and accessable very powerful 'REAL DEAL' training centres but everyone is seeking difficulty, the training thats very expensive, far away in another country and is inaccessable to them. Become enlightened enough to see what is around you and that there are very great teachings offered freely.

[thelerner]

You're probably more likely to get in trouble if you're too believing; searching for the super powered master who'll give away secrets like M&M's. As if the nature of ability can be given without being earned through long hard study.

 

But there's also the problem of being too skeptical. Your wallet will be safe but you'll miss some of the most amazing people in this world, dismissing them and lose a chance to see and possibly learn something.

 

Meeting them, the living saints, the high masters, won't give you any powers, but it'll show you whats possible and inspire.

 

How sad it would be,

to miss whole dimensions of life,

because we dismissed them

out of hand.

 

Use your brain; think, compare, learn. But for gods sake shut it down every now and then and take leaps of faith.

Edited July 6, 2012 by thelerner

[z00se]

You're probably more likely to get in trouble if you're too believing; searching for the super powered master who'll give away secrets like M&M's. As if the nature of ability can be given without being earned through long hard study.

 

But there's also the problem of being too skeptical. Your wallet will be safe but you'll miss some of the most amazing people in this world, dismissing them and lose a chance to see and possibly learn something.

 

Meeting them, the living saints, the high masters, won't give you any powers, but it'll show you whats possible and inspire.

 

How sad it would be,

to miss whole dimensions of life,

because we dismissed them

out of hand.

 

Use your brain; think, compare, learn. But for gods sake shut it down every now and then and take leaps of faith.

 

Yeah you are right, but that vipassana course ain't no walk in the park i'll tell you that much. It should be, but it's not!

 

Everyone has to do the hard yards by themselves but theres lots of good cheap help available.

[ShaktiMama]

It's true having witnessed, done, and felt it myself. Have used it against a charging attacker. Hint: you unearth them is one way. There are others. Check also in Indonesian martial art called Silat. Most martial arts that are energy based have this at the higher levels.

 

This is not something that will be discussed on this board for it needs a person present to teach you. It is all based on your internal cultivation practice. It is not a magical superpower but it is hidden from the public for obvious reasons. Letting people think it is stupid is one way it is hidden.

 

If you want training, PM Vajrasattva (Santiago Dobles),who is a member here but rarely is on the board anymore. Be prepared to spend an incredible amount of time in training, training fees, and to show yourself of good character before those things are taught. If you have poor to average chi skills it's going to take you a loooooong time to pick this up.

[Stosh]

 

Use your brain; think, compare, learn. But for gods sake shut it down every now and then and take leaps of faith.

 

I know what you are saying,

I agree many amazing things are possible

but when it comes down to the established laws of physics

I go with the addage that the rules of the Tao cannot be broken

what it allows is allowed

and what it doesnt allow never ever! happens.

 

It is fundamentally good that this is so

the natural laws must hold true or the universe would be chaotic

 

Depending on what laws you render inconstant...

You couldnt put your keys down and expect them to remain in place

you couldnt rely on buildings to stand

you couldnt have expectations of privacy

etc etc

Society as it is, could not function without the expectation

that natural laws would hold true today tomorrow and everywhere.

 

Accepting the laws of the universe as constant and unavoidable

is a big leap toward general acceptance and personal peace,

far more beneficial than believing in bigfoots.

 

PS. I dont believe in gods either (for the same reason more-or-less

they cant interfere lest the world be rendered chaotic)

 

Stosh

[Mokona]

I have an idea, don't listen to anyone who tells you without a doubt that they have the right answer, sometimes they will also tell you not to listen to anyone else. I've seen a few of those posts already.