The Enjoyment of Music and Singing

[Erdrickgr]

In chapter 35 of the Dao De Jing we find this passage:

 

"She who follows the way of the Tao will draw the world to her steps. She can go without fear of being injured, because she has found peace and tranquility in her heart. Where there is music and good food, people will stop to enjoy it. But words spoken of the Tao seem to them boring and stale. When looked at, there is nothing for them to see. When listened for, there is nothing for them to hear. Yet if they put it to use, it would never be exhausted."

 

That is from the McDonald translation, which I picked at random from an online site, but other translations seem to say essentially the same. However, in a text by Zhuangzi, titled "The Main Currents of Thought" (Lin Yutang, The Wisdom of Laotze, pp. 23-37), we find this:

 

"The Ascetics, the followers of Mo Ti (or Motse). Some of the teachings of hte ancients lay in this: not to strive for posthumous fame, not to waste the things of the earth, not to be dazzled by laws and institutions, but to be severe with oneself and hold ready to help others in need. Mo Ti and CH'in Huali heard of these teachings and loved them. (They) tended to overdo it, regarding it as a great satisfaction. (Motse) wrote the essay 'Against Music,' and taught: 'Be thrifty. Do not sing in life, and do not morn in death."... He would not accept (the tradition of) the ancient kings, and wanted to destroy the ceremonies and music of the ancients, such as the Hsiench'ih (name of the sacrificial music)... Motse taught that one should not sing in life and should not mourn in death... However, what kind of a teaching is this, when one must not sing when he wants to sing, must not weep when he wants to weep, and must not enjoy music when he is feeling happy? It causes a man to live strenuously and die cheaply, and must be considered too severe." (p. 27)

 

Do the two need to be reconciled, and if so, how should that happen? Are these passages just looking at things from different perspectives, with the first passage cautioning not to get caught up in sensual pleasures which are fleeting, while the second passage is saying that it's healthy and natural to do things like sing when you feel like singing (even if it is only a temporary happiness)?

[Marblehead]

Do the two need to be reconciled, and if so, how should that happen? Are these passages just looking at things from different perspectives, with the first passage cautioning not to get caught up in sensual pleasures which are fleeting, while the second passage is saying that it's healthy and natural to do things like sing when you feel like singing (even if it is only a temporary happiness)?

Ouch! I love music. It has been an important part of my life as far back as I can remember.

 

The point you raise is valid. And this is one of the few places where I do not take the writings of Lao Tzu or Chuang Tzu too seriously.

 

I think it is important for us to be able to submerge our brain in music and not worry about the 'real world' for a short time. Indeed, if music makes one happy then by all means, listen to some music. (Of course, this is why I don't like "dark" music. I think music should be for lifting us up, not pushing us down.)

[Protector]

In chapter 35 of the Dao De Jing we find this passage:

 

"She who follows the way of the Tao will draw the world to her steps. She can go without fear of being injured, because she has found peace and tranquility in her heart. Where there is music and good food, people will stop to enjoy it. But words spoken of the Tao seem to them boring and stale. When looked at, there is nothing for them to see. When listened for, there is nothing for them to hear. Yet if they put it to use, it would never be exhausted."

 

 

OOH I like this one

 

She who follows the way of the Tao will draw the world to her steps. She can go without fear of being injured, because she has found peace and tranquility in her heart.

 

That's just like music, which by itself is very wu wei

Good music is good and that why people listen to it and therefore it attracts people

A Taoist is wu wei and things come to the Taoist

Unlike music that produces sound which can become annoying or tiresome,

Tao cannot be perceived with sound or anything else

The one who cultivates Tao cannot run out of it

Which goes back to chapter one

 

Music is music and Taoist becomes one with Tao

Bad music won't attract any people and good music will

We have power to choose what kind of person we become

 

This is not anti-music or anything

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I think sometimes music can bring one more into Tao. One might be unnecessarily repressing things which music can loosen up. Or if one is feeling really down, sometimes depressing music can actually get them out of it by allowing them to accept those feelings and move on..

 

I think a big part of it is that a musician has an instrument of expression, a tool of expression, to express things that they otherwise might not be able to. When they get in and search these emotions they can become more aware and accepting of their deeper feelings. This, in itself, I think is very healthy as it relaxes the mind and reduces the stress of holding these things back.. allowing a sort of emotional wu wei.

[de_paradise]

People, students, run into trouble when they interpret teachings as if they were Gospel, or the Tao itself whispered into their ears. Teachings are linear as ideas formed as language then compressed into pithy sentences, full of assumptions and exclusions, hopefully understood in context, but often taken out of context and assumptions or exclusions. Clearly the ascetics went too far and misinterpreted the ancients, and in their zeal added things that would be detrimental to their spiritual evolution or understanding of how things work.

Edited July 6, 2012 by de_paradise

[zanshin]

I am sitting in the sun petting the dog with reggae music in the background. The music is not the Tao, as the dog, the sun and I are not the Tao. The cool little breeze that might be bringing rain and the almost ripe garden tomatoes are also not the Tao. I do not know what is the Tao, perhaps someday I will understand. In the mean time, nice feelings of peace and tranquility. As long as I am waiting to understand, will choose temporary happiness over temporary ascetism. One love. One heart. Let's get together and feel all right.

[Marblehead]

One love. One heart. Let's get together and feel all right.

When I hear things like this I wish I was young again and willing to make mistakes all over again.

 

No dog here but I have the music going. No, not Chinese traditional music. Some heavy guitar playing and singing by Lee Michaels. Makes me want to get up and fly away for a short spell.