Mopai nei kung, there has to be an equivalent!

[shaq786]

I just have a hard time grasping the sad fact after doing countless hours of my own research to find that mopai is the most powerful system out of all qigong arts. It almost like saying Muay Thai is better than Karate.

 

Now we all know in the latter case of Muay Thai vs Karate, the smart answer is, "it depends on the practioner" so why can't the same be said about Mopai nei kung vs other qigong systems? You can't say it depends on the practioner because nei kung takes it to a whole new level that you can NEVER NEVER achieve with other qigong systems. The most you get out of them is healing and maybe some energy bubble deflection of your students.

 

But its hard to believe because basically your tellng me that out of thousands of years of chineese qigong systems developing that Mo Pai Nei Kung has surpassed them in leaps and bounds. A analogy here would be flying cars(mo pai) and cars on the road(all other qigong). There has to be an equivalent out there and I want to know in your opinion what that equivalent is and if I can buy books to learn it. I read an excerpt of 4 levels similar to mopai and someone else said there was a lot of content missing. So I'm not going to go by that excerpt. But I am willing to learn on my own without a master even if it means the death of me or my soul. I dont care.

 

I have a lot of different motives. I train in a lot of hard martial arts. But a true warrior is not complete without the internal work. And a true warrior is not complete without true training from a system that is mo pai. I hate to knock other systems but why train in a system that only knows how to do one thing(heal) vs a system with a wide array of arsenel. I'm not here to help anyone or hurt anyone, thats my yin and yang. I dont care if I can't develop pyrokinesis telekinesis or any of that but what satisfies me more is knowing that I was on the right path of doing so as opposed to being on a qigong path of wasting my whole life not getting any benefit except healing.

Edited July 7, 2012 by shaq786

[thelerner]

Here's another target. Sometimes its good to move in the opposite direction of your strength.(!) You're very yang; doing hard style martial arts, looking for intense chi gung. Maybe go yin. Gentle yoga, slow tai chi, sitting zazen, or a healing gi gung like Stillness-Motion.

 

Why? Because it'll keep you in balance, make you more rounded and complete. Sometimes the hardest thing is to slow down, but its essential. You're already running and fighting; perfect your sitting and breathing. It'll help you. Then keep your eyes open for a chance to learn from a highly qualified teacher.

 

As you wait (years?), you'll learn and be worthy of the teaching.

Keep your yang, learn the yin.

 

 

 

my two cents

[Protector]

It's not the best, John showed some stuff to his friends then decided to let that be because the world stopped practicing hard enough because people started to think that sort of stuff was impossible

 

8 silk might give you even better results then mopai, it's even complete and more simple

There's even a story about a skill you can get from practicing it right, but there are many variations of 8 sections of the brocade now that it will be a pain looking for the one that gives you the silken body skill

 

Pyrokinesis has never been the goal in energy practices but sometimes it becomes a nice side effect

It's a lot easier to do when you have energy to spare for it, and not everyone goes for the crazy amounts of energy

 

Other systems are great but to reach desirable outcomes, they require a lot of energy

And know what, getting all that energy is kinda easy but a pain

 

I also can vouch that there are still priests from Shaolin who can still fly

[shaq786]

Here's another target. Sometimes its good to move in the opposite direction of your strength.(!) You're very yang; doing hard style martial arts, looking for intense chi gung. Maybe go yin. Gentle yoga, slow tai chi, sitting zazen, or a healing gi gung like Stillness-Motion.

 

Why? Because it'll keep you in balance, make you more rounded and complete. Sometimes the hardest thing is to slow down, but its essential. You're already running and fighting; perfect your sitting and breathing. It'll help you. Then keep your eyes open for a chance to learn from a highly qualified teacher.

 

As you wait (years?), you'll learn and be worthy of the teaching.

Keep your yang, learn the yin.

 

 

 

my two cents

 

I agree I do need more yin and would really like to know all ways to really cultivate it.

[shaq786]

 

I also can vouch that there are still priests from Shaolin who can still fly

 

 

Can you go further into this?

[Protector]

Lightness skill is one of the 72 Shaolin skills, flying is a sort of extension of it

My friend's friend practices it, and while I never met him, my friend says he can do it

I also got a taste of lightness skill from practicing my horse stance, heat made me feel so light that I supported myself only on my toes for half a second

Energy needed to actually fly must be insane

I also could touch stuff at distance when I was practicing projecting, stopped because I needed to study so I could actually use it

All that healing stuff is not so bad

[Jeramiah Zeitigeist]

Here's another target. Sometimes its good to move in the opposite direction of your strength.(!) You're very yang; doing hard style martial arts, looking for intense chi gung. Maybe go yin. Gentle yoga, slow tai chi, sitting zazen, or a healing gi gung like Stillness-Motion.

 

Why? Because it'll keep you in balance, make you more rounded and complete. Sometimes the hardest thing is to slow down, but its essential. You're already running and fighting; perfect your sitting and breathing. It'll help you. Then keep your eyes open for a chance to learn from a highly qualified teacher.

 

As you wait (years?), you'll learn and be worthy of the teaching.

Keep your yang, learn the yin.

 

 

 

my two cents

 

Such good advice.

 

Looking for more Yang will only mean that eventually you will be forced into more Yin, through injury or whatever.

 

Balance is everything. If you don't seek it out, it will seek you out.

[fizix]

You seek power, not spiritual evolution; this is your first mistake. Second, you make the false assumption that mo pai has more potential than any other practice.

[Jeramiah Zeitigeist]

You seek power, not spiritual evolution; this is your first mistake. Second, you make the false assumption that mo pai has more potential than any other practice.

 

Also very good points !

[RiverSnake]

I have never practiced the MoPai Nei kung so i cannot talk about its efficacy. But i am familiar with 2 other systems of Nei Kung which are very effective. People whom know other systems feel free to mention them.

 

1. Yigong (Jenny Lamb's System): http://www.easterninternalarts.org/

 

2. Stillness-Movement (Michael Lomax) http://www.qigongamerica.com/

 

 

Stillness Movement has been very effective for me. I have not practiced Yigong...but just heard very good things and i have a lot of respect for Jenny.

 

Also do not underestimate the ability to heal others. What do you think is more important...being able to heal others on a physical, emotional and psychological level...or lighting some paper on fire? Got matches anyone?

 

When pursuing such things you should always critically examine your intentions and make sure you are not pursuing spiritual development for egotistical purposes...as fizix mentioned.

 

Meditation itself is a way to balance yourself out and bring in the Yin.

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

Edited July 7, 2012 by OldGreen

[Josama]

Mo Pai is not the ultimate system or sth. You need to make the difference between high level and low level qi qong.(like michael lomax puts it) Mo Pai is such a high level qi gong,as well as Yi Gong and Stillness Movement and many others. The reason why most people on here regard Mo Pai as "ultimate" is because of John Chang who is on of the greatest Masters walking on Earth but 99 % of the people won't probably never be able to achieve that high a level.

 

Edit: It is like saying Jeet Kune Do is the best Martial Art because Bruce Lee was one of the greatest Martial Artists ever alive but the truth is that Bruce Lee had the talent of one in a million.

Edited July 7, 2012 by Josama

[Jetsun]

I'm not here to help anyone or hurt anyone, thats my yin and yang. I dont care if I can't develop pyrokinesis telekinesis or any of that but what satisfies me more is knowing that I was on the right path of doing so as opposed to being on a qigong path of wasting my whole life not getting any benefit except healing.

 

What are you looking for?

 

If you are looking for enlightenment or just spiritual progress from my own perspective just from the statistics you are better off looking at Tibetan Buddhism as there are a large number of lineages which have consistently produced spiritually advanced students over many years, so the proof is in the ability to transmit the teachings consistently from generation to generation. Whereas I am not aware of any teachings even available from Mo Pai or aware of it's ability to transmit the teachings.

 

Jim McMillan said pretty much the same thing you are better off studying towards learning the Six Yogas Of Naropa and it will bring as much or more than Mo Pai, the path was completely systemised by Lama Tsongkhapa in the fifteenth century to be able to follow in a uncomplicated linear way with the early stages available to anyone so you don't have many of the barriers in your way which Mo Pai puts up.

[Cheshire Cat]

Kosta Danaos once answered a question about what kind of spiritual discipline could be equal or siilar to Mo Pai.

He answered tibetan yoga, especially tummo meditation.

 

Naropa ruleZ

[shaq786]

Such good advice.

 

Looking for more Yang will only mean that eventually you will be forced into more Yin, through injury or whatever.

 

Balance is everything. If you don't seek it out, it will seek you out.

 

I agree...but my problem is I dont know the easiest way to harness yin...

 

I do breathing meditation and vary my styles with 1. Push stomach in as you breath in and push stomach out and you exhale 2. Push stomach out as you breath in and push stomach in and you breath out.

 

Is meditation all yin energy?

[shaq786]

You seek power, not spiritual evolution; this is your first mistake. Second, you make the false assumption that mo pai has more potential than any other practice.

 

1. Maybe at the deepest level I do seek power. But its not to harm nor help anyone. For me these skills are a benchmark to let me know I'm on the right path and getting the most of my training. I'd rather NOT attain any special abilities and waste a ton of time meditating and getting nothing out of it if I was on the right path that can help me develop myself.

 

2. This assumption was based on a conversation I had with Jim McMillian. His opinion was that these other systems are too invested in obtaining Yang Energy.

Edited July 7, 2012 by shaq786

[shaq786]

What are you looking for?

 

If you are looking for enlightenment or just spiritual progress from my own perspective just from the statistics you are better off looking at Tibetan Buddhism as there are a large number of lineages which have consistently produced spiritually advanced students over many years, so the proof is in the ability to transmit the teachings consistently from generation to generation. Whereas I am not aware of any teachings even available from Mo Pai or aware of it's ability to transmit the teachings.

 

Jim McMillan said pretty much the same thing you are better off studying towards learning the Six Yogas Of Naropa and it will bring as much or more than Mo Pai, the path was completely systemised by Lama Tsongkhapa in the fifteenth century to be able to follow in a uncomplicated linear way with the early stages available to anyone so you don't have many of the barriers in your way which Mo Pai puts up.

 

My path isn't enlightenment its really to cultivate yin and yang and mix and match with that energy. Do you feel the six yogas of naropa can help with that? I also dont want to get into religion of buddhism so I hope that 6 yogas will not do that to me. Since I dont want to convert or anything like that. Also is there a good book out there that can break down these stages and teach it all correctly?

[Sloppy Zhang]

There's nothing wrong with seeking power.

 

The problem is that it's very hard to find a system that teaches power (directly).

 

Hell, even if you want to learn a martial art to actually fight, to actually use it to have "power", it's damn near impossible. So many "reality" based arts are jokes, poor, unrealistic training. So many traditional arts have been watered down to routinely based forms, teaching roles and flitting around with no real goal of fighting. Combat sports are damn near close, but it's hard to find someone who says "this is how you do it in the ring, this is how you do it in the street."

 

To find a system rooted in mysticism and "energy" that teaches power? Again, good luck. So many are focused on love and light and feel good happiness, that even if they agree power is necessary "in theory", they have no practical means of cultivating it. So many systems have diverted their theory from their practice. Or they have lost the original practice and struggle to reclaim the theory.

 

So, hate to sound cynical, but if you're looking for "power", even if you are a saint and you've got the most angelic reasons in the world, chances are it's going to be damn hard to find. Not to mention that most people maintain such a dogmatic aversion to power that they go into an almost allergic spiritual anaphylaxis, and if they don't die on you right there (shutting you off from teaching) they're going to lecture you about what you "should" be looking for.

 

Just thought I'd throw that bit out....

 

 

Now, on a more practical level. If you're looking for advanced methods of spiritual or energetic levels of power, you're going to have to clear the basic and intermediate levels. And the basic and intermediate levels are, as far as most can tell (without being initiated), pretty similar.

Edited July 7, 2012 by Sloppy Zhang

[thelerner]

Warriors often did standing meditation, sometimes called Zhan Zhang. We have a few threads on it. It might be up your alley. A classic book on it is 'The Way of Energy' by Lam. There are probably quite a few sites talking about different styles. It is simple, but not easy. Even the simple postures can be improved with an experienced teachers help.

 

 

It might be worth looking into. I like to 'just stand' and listen to Rawn Clark's Archaeous series. They're 15 minute meditations on his version of element theory; ie legs are earth(strong, stoic, relaxed), belly area water (flowing, adapting, life giving..) etc., Rawn didn't mean for it to be done standing but I think it works very well. It really makes the 15 minutes fly by and later series goes into more depth on spiritual aspects.

 

I like all of his meditation series, imo he's a genius. They're at Abardoncompanion.com and they're all free mp3's.

[chi 2012]

Gary Clymans material looks like it could make a person pretty powerful. From what I read - if your serious you have to do 4 hours of his NeiKung a day minimum.

[Practitioner]

Are there equivalents to Mo Pai? Oh believe me there are equivalents. All of these powerful masters are in hiding in plain sight, and for good reason. I've been privileged enough to train under one, and from his personal words, he will never be eager to show off what he has.

 

Is this master interested in showing you in any of the stuff he can do? No. Is it likely that he would teach you this stuff? No. This man would rather hide from the media and from such amounts of attention because he's learned in the past that once you expose yourself all kinds of nutso's come out from the waterworks.

 

The reason why masters with such large amounts of powerful qi are not keen to show forth what they're capable of is because once it gets out, it attracts such a large amount of crazy ass people - power hungry crazy ass nutjobs who think that they're going to be the next sith lord, world messiah or demigod martial artist.

 

You can see why Mo Pai attracts such a large number of people who are hungry for nothing but power like the OP. Such a large number people who think of the money fame and the power. People who want to be more "special" than all the rest of us. The funny thing is that none of these systems work that way. It is karma which is the deciding factor. Most people do not possess the innate amount of talent to make progress. Check Magus of Java - you will see that John's old master saw his karma - that he had the "gift". Not even if the full system was laid bare before you would you be guaranteed of any progress. People like John are one in a million. If you look at Jim's group of mo pai aspirants which numbers in the hundreds, you'd be hard pressed to find a handful who are past level 1. Many have been practicing a number of years and just given up. What does this tell you?

 

Most higher level masters just keep silent and wait and see who has the karma good enough to bump into them, and most of all they do not show what they are haphazardly. They don't want the drama and a thousand master-of-the-universe wannabes knocking on their doors all looking to exploit this kind of stuff one way or the other. John's old master was a recluse who verily did not show off, or reveal himself for what he was. What does this tell you? They dont need the attention, and all the drama that comes from wannabe sith lords or people who want to put the shit on 50 dvd's and charge you 99.95 for each one.

 

As Mo Pai is now closed to outsiders, one would believe that John has learned his lesson by now.

[Turlis655]

I just have a hard time grasping the sad fact after doing countless hours of my own research to find that mopai is the most powerful system out of all qigong arts. It almost like saying Muay Thai is better than Karate.

 

Now we all know in the latter case of Muay Thai vs Karate, the smart answer is, "it depends on the practioner" so why can't the same be said about Mopai nei kung vs other qigong systems? You can't say it depends on the practioner because nei kung takes it to a whole new level that you can NEVER NEVER achieve with other qigong systems. The most you get out of them is healing and maybe some energy bubble deflection of your students.

 

But its hard to believe because basically your tellng me that out of thousands of years of chineese qigong systems developing that Mo Pai Nei Kung has surpassed them in leaps and bounds. A analogy here would be flying cars(mo pai) and cars on the road(all other qigong). There has to be an equivalent out there and I want to know in your opinion what that equivalent is and if I can buy books to learn it. I read an excerpt of 4 levels similar to mopai and someone else said there was a lot of content missing. So I'm not going to go by that excerpt. But I am willing to learn on my own without a master even if it means the death of me or my soul. I dont care.

 

I have a lot of different motives. I train in a lot of hard martial arts. But a true warrior is not complete without the internal work. And a true warrior is not complete without true training from a system that is mo pai. I hate to knock other systems but why train in a system that only knows how to do one thing(heal) vs a system with a wide array of arsenel. I'm not here to help anyone or hurt anyone, thats my yin and yang. I dont care if I can't develop pyrokinesis telekinesis or any of that but what satisfies me more is knowing that I was on the right path of doing so as opposed to being on a qigong path of wasting my whole life not getting any benefit except healing.

 

I believe I know where you got the info on the 4 levels of Mo-Pai like practice. I do recommend not practicing that. I actually know the person who wrote that book and he wishes he never made it. He did something very wrong with the practice and he regrets putting that book out. He said there are so many changes he would like to make in that book. Its not to say all of it is wrong. He's got some very good info in it but the practice part need a little tweaking. He does want to re-write it correctly but he is very busy with work and study. I do advise you and anybody else not to follow those practices in that book.

[Jetsun]

My path isn't enlightenment its really to cultivate yin and yang and mix and match with that energy. Do you feel the six yogas of naropa can help with that? I also dont want to get into religion of buddhism so I hope that 6 yogas will not do that to me. Since I dont want to convert or anything like that. Also is there a good book out there that can break down these stages and teach it all correctly?

 

It is going to be pretty difficult to learn the 6 Naropa's without getting into Buddhism a bit, although the aim is to liberate you rather than trap you in a religion. You can get a good taste from the book "Bliss of Inner Fire", but the longer path involves many years of preparation, something this this series of books My link will explain the path at the beginning but we are talking years of things like prostrations, mastering the basic meditation states and purification practices, then you would need to find a master to empower you to practice the more powerful tantra.

[Josama]

It is going to be pretty difficult to learn the 6 Naropa's without getting into Buddhism a bit, although the aim is to liberate you rather than trap you in a religion. You can get a good taste from the book "Bliss of Inner Fire", but the longer path involves many years of preparation, something this this series of books My link will explain the path at the beginning but we are talking years of things like prostrations, mastering the basic meditation states and purification practices, then you would need to find a master to empower you to practice the more powerful tantra.

 

Tummo is actually pretty easy to learn,you don't need to get in buddhism at all for that,all that you need is the empowerement.

[Josama]

It is going to be pretty difficult to learn the 6 Naropa's without getting into Buddhism a bit, although the aim is to liberate you rather than trap you in a religion. You can get a good taste from the book "Bliss of Inner Fire", but the longer path involves many years of preparation, something this this series of books My link will explain the path at the beginning but we are talking years of things like prostrations, mastering the basic meditation states and purification practices, then you would need to find a master to empower you to practice the more powerful tantra.

 

Tummo is actually pretty easy to learn,you don't need to get in buddhism at all for that,all that you need is the transmission/empowerement.

[宁]

Are there equivalents to Mo Pai? Oh believe me there are equivalents. All of these powerful masters are in hiding in plain sight, and for good reason. I've been privileged enough to train under one, and from his personal words, he will never be eager to show off what he has.

 

Is this master interested in showing you in any of the stuff he can do? No. Is it likely that he would teach you this stuff? No. This man would rather hide from the media and from such amounts of attention because he's learned in the past that once you expose yourself all kinds of nutso's come out from the waterworks.

 

The reason why masters with such large amounts of powerful qi are not keen to show forth what they're capable of is because once it gets out, it attracts such a large amount of crazy ass people - power hungry crazy ass nutjobs who think that they're going to be the next sith lord, world messiah or demigod martial artist.

 

You can see why Mo Pai attracts such a large number of people who are hungry for nothing but power like the OP. Such a large number people who think of the money fame and the power. People who want to be more "special" than all the rest of us. The funny thing is that none of these systems work that way. It is karma which is the deciding factor. Most people do not possess the innate amount of talent to make progress. Check Magus of Java - you will see that John's old master saw his karma - that he had the "gift". Not even if the full system was laid bare before you would you be guaranteed of any progress. People like John are one in a million. If you look at Jim's group of mo pai aspirants which numbers in the hundreds, you'd be hard pressed to find a handful who are past level 1. Many have been practicing a number of years and just given up. What does this tell you?

 

Most higher level masters just keep silent and wait and see who has the karma good enough to bump into them, and most of all they do not show what they are haphazardly. They don't want the drama and a thousand master-of-the-universe wannabes knocking on their doors all looking to exploit this kind of stuff one way or the other. John's old master was a recluse who verily did not show off, or reveal himself for what he was. What does this tell you? They dont need the attention, and all the drama that comes from wannabe sith lords or people who want to put the shit on 50 dvd's and charge you 99.95 for each one.

 

As Mo Pai is now closed to outsiders, one would believe that John has learned his lesson by now.

 

well put, should be a sticky, and linked to all future mopai threads, imo