Namdrol's Apology and some insight on rising above Sectarianism

[Creation]

Then my read on your statement above to me is you don't understand Dwai as that has always been one of Dwai's points as well. And Namdrol has taken a side. He's dropping the whole sectarianist stance - that IS a "side" in my view - and a good one to have. If Buddhists are permitted to have the Viewless View I don't see why Dwai can't have the Sideless Side.

Sorry, I did not make an attempt to articulate clearly what I meant, instead opting to piggyback off of your term "side". Here is such attempt: I get a sense of lightness, freedom, space, carefreeness, non-contraction behind the words in Namdrol's posts that was not there before. Like a person taking off heavy suit of armor and proceeding to dance. It has little to do with the linguistic content of what he is saying.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Creation

[C T]

What is the precise factor which determines if what one practices will lead to liberation?

 

There is no way to determine for certain.

 

I feel deeply that only as death approaches one knows in confidence whether one's cultivation, all the effort of one's spiritual life, will carry one forward with ease, or with apprehension. It is like anticipating the sunrise, some look forward to it, while some tend to shun it. And yet, those who shun daylight, they are also catered for, for the night brings mystery, and shadows, and is full of spaciousness and potential for the next phase, the next period.

 

As of now, there is really no benefit to say who is right, or which view is the correct one.

 

Better off directing one's thoughts to those things that soothes one's mind.

[dwai]

No one, by definition, has had an experience of unending consciousness. Many people have had an experience wherein consciousness ceases (or appears to).

 

 

 

 

 

Is that really true? How do you know?

 

Also, if you have had a Unity moment, all these speculations will be dispelled.

[Lucky7Strikes]

What is the precise factor which determines if what one practices will lead to liberation?

 

There is no way to determine for certain.

 

I feel deeply that only as death approaches one knows in confidence whether one's cultivation, all the effort of one's spiritual life, will carry one forward with ease, or with apprehension. It is like anticipating the sunrise, some look forward to it, while some tend to shun it. And yet, those who shun daylight, they are also catered for, for the night brings mystery, and shadows, and is full of spaciousness and potential for the next phase, the next period.

 

As of now, there is really no benefit to say who is right, or which view is the correct one.

 

Better off directing one's thoughts to those things that soothes one's mind.

IMO, this isn't a very good attitude. You're gambling on what might come at death. What if nothing comes?

 

There needs to be an urgency about liberation. A now or never stance, a great intensity to it, as the Buddha did under the Bodhi tree when he decided never to leave until he was enlightened. Then it just becomes a question of when, not if.

[Lucky7Strikes]

Anyone who receives direct introduction (to the nature of mind,) who stabilizes their experience of instant presence (regardless if there is still a sense of an apprehender and apprehended framework on a conscious/subconscious/unconscious level); and who seriously studys and applies the teachings of dzogchen will (eventually) fully come to recognize their own face (as Dzogpa Chenpo.) In the end dzogchenpa's (to use a convenient label) don't have anything to worry about, IMO.

I've been to two retreats with Chogyal Namkai Norbu and have been reading his works inside the community for a while now, and I must say I am very underwhelmed. His practice is mainly dream practice and much of his knowledge comes down from his lineage through dreams. He seems to simply rest in the state of what is deemed primordial nature as his karmic fruits just fall off, which is great in my opinion, but nothing of what I'd consider masterful knowledge. I've seen him answer questions and deal with daily problems other people come with, and there is nothing that indicates in depth wisdom. I'd consider him more of a scholar than anything else.

 

To me, being in the primordial state or Thusness' spontaneous presence are just paths to untangle karmic ties. They're both mere paths. To take what they say as some ultimate characterization of reality would be faulty since neither has full mastery over their existences, only a glimpse into a pure way of experience. For instance, ask either teacher about karma, or the essences of the human body, or the after-life. Either the answers will be out of a book or they won't know too much besides how to enter into pure and immediate experience. Chogyal Namkai Norbu doesn't even seem that happy to be carrying on and seems to look at this whole affair as a burden laid upon him.

 

But I guess it really depends on what the seeker is looking for.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Lucky7Strikes

[Marblehead]

IMO, this isn't a very good attitude. You're gambling on what might come at death. What if nothing comes?

 

There needs to be an urgency about liberation. A now or never stance, a great intensity to it, as the Buddha did under the Bodhi tree when he decided never to leave until he was enlightened. Then it just becomes a question of when, not if.

You know that I'm not all that concerned but I do think that this is a good post. Actually goes deeper than just the words.

[Simple_Jack]

I've been to two retreats with Chogyal Namkai Norbu and have been reading his works inside the community for a while now, and I must say I am very underwhelmed. His practice is mainly dream practice and much of his knowledge comes down from his lineage through dreams. He seems to simply rest in the state of what is deemed primordial nature as his karmic fruits just fall off, which is great in my opinion, but nothing of what I'd consider masterful knowledge. I've seen him answer questions and deal with daily problems other people come with, and there is nothing that indicates in depth wisdom. I'd consider him more of a scholar than anything else.

 

To me, being in the primordial state or Thusness' spontaneous presence are just paths to untangle karmic ties. They're both mere paths. To take what they say as some ultimate characterization of reality would be faulty since neither has full mastery over their existences, only a glimpse into a pure way of experience. For instance, ask either teacher about karma, or the essences of the human body, or the after-life. Either the answers will be out of a book or they won't know too much besides how to enter into pure and immediate experience. Chogyal Namkai Norbu doesn't even seem that happy to be carrying on and seems to look at this whole affair as a burden laid upon him.

 

But I guess it really depends on what the seeker is looking for.

I don't know why people always jump to ChNN as if he's the only one teaching dzogchen out there (though I think he does give out the teachings more openly than other people.) There's well known and not so well known teachers of dzogchen lineages in the Drikung Kagyu, Bon, Nyingma, and whatever other sect/sub-sect out there that teaches dzogchen; so, I'm just not quite sure, why everyone seems to just mention ChNN. On an unrelated note: I'm becoming more interested in the Bon lineage of dzogchen, as Malcolm says they are generally more open in giving teachings and information on togal and stuff. He even mentioned how he's heard of certain teachers who will openly give teachings on togal to whomever asks them (he didn't mention any names unfortunately, lol.) Also, visiting teachers of the Garchen retreat center in Arizona have given teachings on trekchod and togal in the past, which I think is pretty cool.

 

For instance, ask either teacher about karma, or the essences of the human body, or the after-life. Either the answers will be out of a book or they won't know too much besides how to enter into pure and immediate experience.

As for ChNN, what makes you absolutely positive that he doesn't have any deep experiences of this stuff? What if he just doesn't choose to emphasize, talk of or demonstrate this stuff? Though to be honest, other than reading some articles online that was written by ChNN, reading his book The Cycle Of Day And Night and seeing a few webcasts: I don't really know enough about ChNN or how he teaches in order to make a judgement. I'm wondering though: This guy has been meditating for years, is there anything mentioned in his books (or by anyone else) about his accomplishments? Have you come across anything? I really am curious about this.

 

As for Thusness: We really don't know anything about him, since his identity (other than a name and whatever background info that xabir posts) is pretty much kept secret. From what xabir posts: He does seem to have experience of the form and formless jhanas and is able to demonstrate certain siddhis. How do you absolutely know, that in his 20+ years of his meditation practice, he hasn't reached any advanced levels of cultivation (of the subtle energy body or whatever?) What if he has the ability of the deva eye, to see his and others past lives, or other types of siddhis described by the yogis of the world?

 

Keep in mind, that I really don't care or am really interested in defending either of them. I'm just curious, as to why you think this.

 

On an unrelated note: I've heard (from people who have been his students for a while,) of some interesting accounts of Garchen Rinpoche and his ability and level of cultivation. I mean from people who have been his students for years, and who have first hand account of what he can do. A lot of them think he is on the level of a mahasiddha. I can't say much about this other than being in his presence and whatnot, since I've only been around him a few times (other than him showing up in one of my dreams, to get me to wake up when I had overslept; because I was missing a session of the retreat, after it had started.)

 

But I guess it really depends on what the seeker is looking for.

To each his own, right? For me personally, I wouldn't mind being able to meet Nan Huai Chin (before he dies) some day. From talking to a Chinese guy, from a sangha I've been to: He thinks highly of him (commenting on his learning and experience gleaned from reading his untranslated Chinese books) and says that he is of a very high caliber as a cultivator and scholar. He mentioned how his eyes "glowed," which I've heard is a mark of someone who has gained the ability of the deva eye. If that's true, then who knows what else he has developed, in terms of siddhis and the energy body.

[Lucky7Strikes]

I don't know why people always jump to ChNN as if he's the only one teaching dzogchen out there (though I think he does give out the teachings more openly than other people.) There's well known and not so well known teachers of dzogchen lineages in the Drikung Kagyu, Bon, Nyingma, and whatever other sect/sub-sect out there that teaches dzogchen; so, I'm just not quite sure, why everyone seems to just mention ChNN. On an unrelated note: I'm becoming more interested in the Bon lineage of dzogchen, as Malcolm says they are generally more open in giving teachings and information on togal and stuff. He even mentioned how he's heard of certain teachers who will openly give teachings on togal to whomever asks them (he didn't mention any names unfortunately, lol.) Also, visiting teachers of the Garchen retreat center in Arizona have given teachings on trekchod and togal in the past, which I think is pretty cool.

You brought him up and he happens to be Malcolm's teacher.

 

As for ChNN, what makes you absolutely positive that he doesn't have any deep experiences of this stuff? What if he just doesn't choose to emphasize, talk of or demonstrate this stuff? Though to be honest, other than reading some articles online that was written by ChNN, reading his book The Cycle Of Day And Night and seeing a few webcasts: I don't really know enough about ChNN or how he teaches in order to make a judgement. I'm wondering though: This guy has been meditating for years, is there anything mentioned in his books (or by anyone else) about his accomplishments? Have you come across anything? I really am curious about this.

Because once you've read and have seen videos of him you realize his knowledge is scholarly and transmitted from dreams. Meditating for years doesn't mean anything. His accomplishments are mainly lucid dreaming and staying in primordial state. For instance when he was ill, he just practiced mandarava hoping it would cure his physical illness. Apparently it did (maybe out of sheer luck who knows, the point is he wasn't even sure himself), but it's a little disappointing that a teacher this caliber can't choose to go whenever he wants?

 

As for Thusness: We really don't know anything about him, since his identity (other than a name and whatever background info that xabir posts) is pretty much kept secret. From what xabir posts: He does seem to have experience of the form and formless jhanas and is able to demonstrate certain siddhis. How do you absolutely know, that in his 20+ years of his meditation practice, he hasn't reached any advanced levels of cultivation (of the subtle energy body or whatever?) What if he has the ability of the deva eye, to see his and others past lives, or other types of siddhis described by the yogis of the world?

It's not about siddhis, it's about what he knows. I asked Xabir about this a few years ago and he said no Thusness doesn't have such knowledge. There is no reason to hide what one knows and doesn't know, it can be presented shrewdly.

 

Keep in mind, that I really don't care or am really interested in defending either of them. I'm just curious, as to why you think this

It's because practitioners seem to glorify them much more than who they really are or capable of.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Lucky7Strikes

[C T]

IMO, this isn't a very good attitude. You're gambling on what might come at death. What if nothing comes?

 

There needs to be an urgency about liberation. A now or never stance, a great intensity to it, as the Buddha did under the Bodhi tree when he decided never to leave until he was enlightened. Then it just becomes a question of when, not if.

Liberation? Liberation from what?

 

The aim of my practice was to be liberated from a mind that was constantly in turmoil, displaced by too much speculation, and i have, to a degree, achieved to a state free of any worries, in other words, a soothed mind. If i am able to maintain this state, there is very little need to make any new speculations about this and that -- this and that being what Namdrol having been tormented by, until now, and many others here, as well.

 

Do you understand the position of a mind that is continuously soothed, L7S? Imagine, all those who practice for umpteen years, only to realize they are still carrying subtle guilt which really mucks them up. For those who seriously cultivate their subtle spiritual bodies, even a little muck can be felt to be tremendously 'heavy', i am sure you are aware of this.

 

Lastly, Its not about gambling on what might happen at death -- its about dying to every transition, to awaken afresh each time. It seems a good way to end the accruing of new karma. If this isnt good attitude, have you better suggestions?

[dwai]

Actually, not at all. In this thread (My link) I accused Malcolm of having an eternalist view [on page 4 I quoted an excerpt from the Surangama Sutra, dealing with what I accused him of. Xabir sums it up as "...implying some universal, over-arching, eternalistic consciousness that is rejected in Shurangama;] where he responded:

 

Lotus_Bitch (Me): The view you are propounding is common among those of eternalistic views, which is why you'll hear of this in tribal communities as well.

 

Malcolm: Am I? That is news to me. Are you quite sure all tribal people are eternalists? How did you come to universal knowledge of the beleifs of all tribal peoples?

 

 

Simple_Jack == Vajrahridaya?

[Simple_Jack]

You brought him up and he happens to be Malcolm's teacher.

 

 

Because once you've read and have seen videos of him you realize his knowledge is scholarly and transmitted from dreams. Meditating for years doesn't mean anything. His accomplishments are mainly lucid dreaming and staying in primordial state. For instance when he was ill, he just practiced mandarava hoping it would cure his physical illness. Apparently it did (maybe out of sheer luck who knows, the point is he wasn't even sure himself), but it's a little disappointing that a teacher this caliber can't choose to go whenever he wants?

 

 

It's not about siddhis, it's about what he knows. I asked Xabir about this a few years ago and he said no Thusness doesn't have such knowledge. There is no reason to hide what one knows and doesn't know, it can be presented shrewdly.

 

 

It's because practitioners seem to glorify them much more than who they really are or capable of.

You brought him up and he happens to be Malcolm's teacher.

Oh, ok. I was just using him as an example.

 

It's because practitioners seem to glorify them much more than who they really are or capable of.

Understandable, I can see what you mean.

[Simple_Jack]

Simple_Jack == Vajrahridaya?

 

Not at all relly, haha. I think Vajrahridaya, may have actually had the meditative experience to back up most of what he said. That is if you believe anything he was saying was true and not just make believe.

 

I on the other hand, don't. It's as simple as that.

[dwai]

 

Not at all relly, haha. I think Vajrahridaya, may have actually had the meditative experience to back up most of what he said. That is if you believe anything he was saying was true and not just make believe.

 

I on the other hand, don't. It's as simple as that.

 

You already won brownie points with your candor. I won't comment about Thunderheart

[Simple_Jack]

You already won brownie points with your candor. I won't comment about Thunderheart

Yay! Brownie points!! By the way, if you haven't already seen the new Spider-Man movie: Don't go into it expecting it to be like the one with Tobey Maguire. It has a different direction and is done differently. It's definitely more character driven and doesn't have that "Summer block-buster" feel, per se. Still enjoyable, though.

[Lucky7Strikes]

Liberation? Liberation from what?

 

The aim of my practice was to be liberated from a mind that was constantly in turmoil, displaced by too much speculation, and i have, to a degree, achieved to a state free of any worries, in other words, a soothed mind. If i am able to maintain this state, there is very little need to make any new speculations about this and that -- this and that being what Namdrol having been tormented by, until now, and many others here, as well.

 

Do you understand the position of a mind that is continuously soothed, L7S? Imagine, all those who practice for umpteen years, only to realize they are still carrying subtle guilt which really mucks them up. For those who seriously cultivate their subtle spiritual bodies, even a little muck can be felt to be tremendously 'heavy', i am sure you are aware of this.

Is soothing your mind really the point of your practice? Maintaining the state of a soothed mind? Wow. I call bullshit.

 

There's a potential within ourselves we are exploring. It's not merely to cure our minds from its nonsense and obsessiveness, that's just a minor annoyance. Just drop the mind then it's not a problem. Why are you putting so much importance on whether or not the mind is soothed? Let it ramble away, it's not important. It's just a device for organizing things.

 

All this we are doing here is about discovering what we intuit as a greater potential in life. We all sense something within us much greater than just physical birth and death don't we? Don't you? Because I do, like something within me is about to explode, like there's a whole part of me just waiting to be actualized. There's also this urge to understand life. Call it the pain of ignorance. Who/what am I? What am I capable of? What is all this? That's not just in my head. My entire being is defined by it being aware/alive, and it's function is to know its own self, not merely to soothe itself from linguistic turmoil.

 

Being satisfied with just a soothed mind is like a a patient who comes out of the hospital and does nothing with his life because he is satisfied with his new health.

 

BTW, aren't you a Buddhist? In Buddhism the goal is to liberate yourself from karmic rebirths. It's not a soothed mind.

 

Lastly, Its not about gambling on what might happen at death -- its about dying to every transition, to awaken afresh each time. It seems a good way to end the accruing of new karma. If this isnt good attitude, have you better suggestions?

"dying to every transition" and "waken up afresh each time"...what does that even mean? So you die and hope to be awakened refreshed? Is this happening for you minute to minute second to second basis? Then your life must be very confusing dying and being reborn each second.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Lucky7Strikes

[Simple_Jack]

Is soothing your mind really the point of your practice? Maintaining the state of a soothed mind? Wow. I call bullshit.

 

There's a potential within ourselves we are exploring. It's not merely to cure our minds from its nonsense and obsessiveness, that's just a minor annoyance. Just drop the mind then it's not a problem. Why are you putting so much importance on whether or not the mind is soothed? Let it ramble away, it's not important. It's just a device for organizing things.

 

All this we are doing here is about discovering what we intuit as a greater potential in life. We all sense something within us much greater than just physical birth and death don't we? Don't you? Because I do, like something within me is about to explode, like there's a whole part of me just waiting to be actualized. There's also this urge to understand life. Call it the pain of ignorance. Who/what am I? What am I capable of? What is all this? That's not just in my head. My entire being is defined by it being aware/alive, and it's function is to know its own self, not merely to soothe itself from linguistic turmoil.

 

Being satisfied with just a soothed mind is like a a patient who comes out of the hospital and does nothing with his life because he is satisfied with his new health.

 

BTW, aren't you a Buddhist? In Buddhism the goal is to liberate yourself from karmic rebirths. It's not a soothed mind.

 

 

"dying to every transition" and "waken up afresh each time"...what does that even mean? So you die and hope to be awakened refreshed? Is this happening for you minute to minute second to second basis? Then your life must be very confusing dying and being reborn each second.

I actually agree with what you're getting at with this post.

 

You thought about doing extensive retreat, one day? Cause, you're gonna have to at some point if you want to achieve what you're talking about. You cant really expect to do that what with a full time job, school, and all the mundanities that comes with living in society. At least not anytime soon, I guess. Retreat can really speed things up. Think about if you go on a traditional 3 year retreat: That's enough to make a solid foundation for continual progress, even when you return to civvy life. At least that's what I've heard from various teachers.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Simple_Jack

[C T]

Is soothing your mind really the point of your practice? Maintaining the state of a soothed mind? Wow. I call bullshit.

 

There's a potential within ourselves we are exploring. It's not merely to cure our minds from its nonsense and obsessiveness, that's just a minor annoyance. Just drop the mind then it's not a problem. Why are you putting so much importance on whether or not the mind is soothed? Let it ramble away, it's not important. It's just a device for organizing things.

 

All this we are doing here is about discovering what we intuit as a greater potential in life. We all sense something within us much greater than just physical birth and death don't we? Don't you? Because I do, like something within me is about to explode, like there's a whole part of me just waiting to be actualized. There's also this urge to understand life. Call it the pain of ignorance. Who/what am I? What am I capable of? What is all this? That's not just in my head. My entire being is defined by it being aware/alive, and it's function is to know its own self, not merely to soothe itself from linguistic turmoil.

 

Being satisfied with just a soothed mind is like a a patient who comes out of the hospital and does nothing with his life because he is satisfied with his new health.

 

BTW, aren't you a Buddhist? In Buddhism the goal is to liberate yourself from karmic rebirths. It's not a soothed mind.

 

 

"dying to every transition" and "waken up afresh each time"...what does that even mean? So you die and hope to be awakened refreshed? Is this happening for you minute to minute second to second basis? Then your life must be very confusing dying and being reborn each second.

Every thing, every motive, every question you pose, here, and there, is in your head. Where else would it be?

 

And, btw, turmoil and conflict is not merely restricted to the realm of linguistic mesmerizations.

 

When you get it, you will feel it. Its more than seeking to know. What is there is beyond knowing.

[Lucky7Strikes]

Every thing, every motive, every question you pose, here, and there, is in your head. Where else would it be?

...Are you really just limited to your mental constitution? Do motives only come in my head? Isn' there a motive to my body, my energies, my life? Our aliveness/inquiry is much more immediate than a mere passing thought isn't it?

 

And, btw, turmoil and conflict is not merely restricted to the realm of linguistic mesmerizations.

 

When you get it, you will feel it. Its more than seeking to know. What is there is beyond knowing.

That's right, turmoil and conflict go beyond language and the mind.

 

What is there beyond knowing? Feeling? A soothed mind? Knowing isn't just in the head. A soothed mind in ignorance is a false safety. Fall from a building and it's euphoric until you hit the ground.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Lucky7Strikes

[Lucky7Strikes]

I actually agree with what you're getting at with this post.

 

You thought about doing extensive retreat, one day? Cause, you're gonna have to at some point if you want to achieve what you're talking about. You cant really expect to do that what with a full time job, school, and all the mundanities that comes with living in society. At least not anytime soon, I guess. Retreat can really speed things up. Think about if you go on a traditional 3 year retreat: That's enough to make a solid foundation for continual progress, even when you return to civvy life. At least that's what I've heard from various teachers.

Yeah, unfortunately I don't have the means to do one at the moment like you pointed out. And to do a retreat like that...I don't have enough knowledge or trust in a certain teacher/system to do it. I mean there have been instances even in daily practice where I'm freaking out because I don't know what my body and energies are going through and there isn't anyone to guide me. Around a year ago I had a tremendous breakthrough but couldn't handle what I was going through so after about two to three weeks of being out of my mind I crashed badly.

 

But as a foundation a three year retreat I'm sure will be more than adequate.

[C T]

...Are you really just limited to your mental constitution? Do motives only come in my head? Isn' there a motive to my body, my energies, my life? Our aliveness/inquiry is much more immediate than a mere passing thought isn't it?

 

 

That's right, turmoil and conflict go beyond language and the mind.

 

What is there beyond knowing? Feeling? A soothed mind? Knowing isn't just in the head. A soothed mind in ignorance is a false safety. Fall from a building and it's euphoric until you hit the ground.

There is no such thing as a soothed mind in ignorance.

 

You saying knowing isnt just in the head... but you dont say where else knowing can occur. Enlighten me please?

[Lucky7Strikes]

There is no such thing as a soothed mind in ignorance.

 

You saying knowing isnt just in the head... but you dont say where else knowing can occur. Enlighten me please?

Your body has its knowledge. Your body knows in fact much more than your do about how to operate itself. If you get on a bike your body knows how to ride it without your head going step by step how to operate it. Whether you are conscious of that or not is your choice.

 

Your energies have their knowledge and patterns. You can see how it reverts to its knowledge when you interact with others or when you begin to become more conscious of your energetic patterns. Strong sensations such as lust come from an energetic movement more than your head. People who are not as aware of this aspect attribute it as intuition.

 

So does your emotions and feelings. They carry memories and knowledge of their own to function. You saying that knowing is in your head is probably a big problem in itself because you have only seen that dimension of yourself. Your being has tremendous layers to it that's unexplored. The head is just a part of what constitutes your experience.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Lucky7Strikes

[C T]

Yeah, unfortunately I don't have the means to do one at the moment like you pointed out. And to do a retreat like that...I don't have enough knowledge or trust in a certain teacher/system to do it. I mean there have been instances even in daily practice where I'm freaking out because I don't know what my body and energies are going through and there isn't anyone to guide me. Around a year ago I had a tremendous breakthrough but couldn't handle what I was going through so after about two to three weeks of being out of my mind I crashed badly.

 

But as a foundation a three year retreat I'm sure will be more than adequate.

Even those who are guided thru one year retreats have 'crashed' after completing it, so its not like guided retreats offer any sort of guarantee against any negative post-retreat happenings. It gets even dicier when people attempt the 'do-it-themselves' route. The great thing about Dzogchen is that one gets tools on how to utilize/transmute those energies that abound during the crashes to aid in awakening. Its like the greater the crash, the more awakened one can get, that kind of way.

[Lucky7Strikes]

There is no such thing as a soothed mind in ignorance.

Sure there is. Ignorance can be bliss. Until it isn't.

[Lucky7Strikes]

Even those who are guided thru one year retreats have 'crashed' after completing it, so its not like guided retreats offer any sort of guarantee against any negative post-retreat happenings. It gets even dicier when people attempt the 'do-it-themselves' route. The great thing about Dzogchen is that one gets tools on how to utilize/transmute those energies that abound during the crashes to aid in awakening. Its like the greater the crash, the more awakened one can get, that kind of way.

Yes, so the system and the teacher you choose to adopt for such occasions is important. As for do-it-yourself retreats, my guess is that only applies when you are certain a technique will require that much focus and intensity to be accomplished. But that requires confidence about the instructions.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Lucky7Strikes

[C T]

Your body has its knowledge. Your body knows in fact much more than your do about how to operate itself. If you get on a bike your body knows how to ride it without your head going step by step how to operate it. Whether you are conscious of that or not is your choice.

 

Your energies have their knowledge and patterns. You can see how it reverts to its knowledge when you interact with others or when you begin to become more conscious of your energetic patterns. People who are not as aware of this aspect attribute it as intuition.

 

So does your emotions and feelings. They carry memories and knowledge of their own to function. You saying that knowing is in your head is probably a big problem in itself because you have only seen that dimension of yourself. Your being has tremendous layers to it that's unexplored. Your head is just a part of what constitutes your experience.

Actually, if each time a seasoned biker gets on a bike in a totally mindful fashion, its similar to learning to ride all over again. And its good, because then one does so in a completely conscious fashion. Accidents usually happen when people do things on auto mode.

 

One can choose to be more conscious even of those things that one thinks ought to have become habitual responses. In fact, it is those precise things that one ought to exercise even more mindful attention over. How else can one rectify one's being to be free from habitual tendencies and behavioral responses?