Excess yang also the topic of reacting to emotional violence from women and social conditioning

[Enishi]

Resorting to physical violence to counter emotional/verbal violence is generally a bad idea. It's particularily true in the case of a woman as there always's a chance she could be pregnant (there's also the size and strength difference, although that is NOT always the case). In the case of the perpetrator utilizing physical violence, I believe one has a right to defend themselves, although defenses that rely on redirecting force rather than "eye for an eye" style responses are better.

 

Avoiding physical violence does not mean however that one has to sit there and take someone's emotional abuse like some sort of saintly White Knight. For instance, some 6-7% of women in America have Borderline Personality Disorder (possibly even more), and simply listening to their emotional abuse is not going to make it go away, if anything, it will enable it. Stand your ground, be honest about how their words are hurting you, and if they don't listen, get away from them!

Edited July 16, 2012 by Enishi

[thelerner]

I try to be calm and nice, but there are times I blow up and I'm mean, nasty and verbally vicious; fewer and fewer I think. There are times I'm wrong and apologize, and times I'm right and still apologize. Leaving such negative energy out there does little good.

 

There are times the outburst itself clears the air, establishes borders and while not the best route ends up creating peace. In the martial arts I was taught, not to cling to anger or fear, but not to deny experiencing them either. Emotion repressed is liable to create a tsunami of thought or even physical symptoms later. Be honest, but realize negative emotions hurt oneself too; let'em come then let them go, don't feed or obsess on them.

[Aaron]

Hey Sinasencer,

 

It's Twinner, I changed my nick to my first name. I was thinking about what you said and what others have said and I wanted to offer one more piece of advice, don't assume you know everything, even everything about a specific situation. Go into each situation as if it was your first time. Remember back to when you were learning math, how at first the concept of adding and subtracting seemed difficult, but after you learned it, it all seemed to make sense? You knew everything there was to know about adding and subtracting, we all did, yet we still seem to make mistakes, and why is that? Because even though we know the basic process involved, we're not infallible. In the same way when you're dealing with people it's important to keep in mind that even though you think you know that person very well and that you have taken every variable into consideration, your calculations may not be as accurate as you think. You may have missed a number, not carried a zero, not realized that someone was worried about you, but not sure how to express it, you get the drift.

 

My math teacher once told me that there's a point after you learn addition that your percentage of correct answers skyrockets, mainly because the child pays extra attention to what they're doing, but as they become more comfortable they tend to not pay that extra attention and start to make mistakes again. Perhaps what you need to do is approach this in the sense that you're learning a new form of communication and expression. Take the time to learn about the people that are upsetting you, why it's happening, but also why you might be upsetting them. Not so much by placing blame, but putting yourself in their shoes. Maybe while you're learning this new practice you'll be able to achieve that point of time where you wont make many mistakes, and you'll have the opportunity to mend fences if you choose to.

 

When you have kids of your own you're going to look back on this and say, "oh, that's why my mom/dad did that." It all seems to click and make sense. The trick isn't to place blame, but to find answers.

 

I'll make you this promise, if you work on this and find the solution that's right for you, I'll work on finding a solution that's right for me regarding my mother, rather than just running away and kidding myself that I don't care about her. I think in the end, whether what happens is good or bad, at least we've tried and we've had the opportunity for change. Scratch that, the truth is in everything that happens in our life change is all we really have.

 

Aaron

Edited July 17, 2012 by Aaron

[skydog]

@Harmonious Emptiness- Ok thanks, will do

 

@Jetsun- Thanks for the tip, I have seen Non violent communication and done a couple of workshops on it, In India I lived in this sustainable living community. Personally I think it must have some use. However some people who use it talk like absolute weirdos and everything is discussed in this over the top manner but yes your right, It does have good applications

 

@ Enishi- Yes, I agree

 

@ The lerner.. Yes, I see what your saying

 

@ Twinner/Aaron...good post actually. I think it is important to go into every situation not assuming you know everything and learn and see things from other peoples perspective, this is a useful bit of info. Still havent talked to my mum but perhaps letting things take their natural time. I apologised (only for losing control) but I think this had the effect I feared in making my mum think that her own behaviour is correct and she did nothing that provoked me, nevertheless I trust things will work out fine. Yes good luck in dealing with your own mother, hope things work out in the most harmonious way.

 

Regards

 

Sinan

[z00se]

Wow, this is one of the worst threads i have ever seen.

 

Zoose thinks he has the right to abuse women in his house because he is bigger and stronger?!?

 

 

And here it reads like you think women are just a life support system for their vaginas

 

 

 

Are you seriously that twisted?

 

If a woman is screaming at you, how about offering her your presence, and hearing what she has to say. She is screaming because she doesn't feel heard, and it has become her fall back strategy when nothing else gets through your thick head. As soon as she feels heard things will tone down.

The other option is that she gets a drama fix that she is addicted too and doesnt really care about the issue she is screaming about. If it turns out that that is the case, move out.

 

Feeling seriously pissed off...

 

Ok i understand why u'd be pissed off but i have to piss you off a little more.

 

The reason why you are so pissed off because of your social conditioning that says men should not hit women. You feel like you have the right to never be hit by a man. But... by the same thinking, i should be able to shout my lungs out in a huge mans face and scream at him and throw as much emotional violence towards him and expect that he would not hit me. In our society if i did that people would call me stupid. Why would i do such a thing to such a big bloke, he will squash me. Well if men and women are equal how is it equal i can't do that to the big man but the small girl can do it to me? That's definately not fair and not 'equal rights' and very immoral in my point of view.

 

OK let me get this straight. I HAVE NEVER HIT A GIRL OR WOMAN EVER! I don't think it's good and i wouldn't do it. If i lived in a different society where it was normal then perhaps i might. Who knows, having being bought up where it was normal i possibly could. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but this is a board for expressing points of view and theories that don't always fit in our society.

 

I know i am digging myself a hole here and maybe lots of women hate me but i honestly have the point of view that some men and women (both) haven't seen enough of the world or worked hard jobs (tradesman type jobs or abattoir, working waist deep in blood) where there are hard problems and they need hard ways of sorting. They sit in offices or sit at home where everything works out easy and they struggle with choosing what to eat for dinner. When somethings not done perfect by the removalists or they damage something they get all pissed off because they paid the removalists good money but they made a mistake and broke something. The workers out of the office always joke around at some of the ideas office people come up with because they dont' have a clue to how things really work. So with these equal rights things it's easy to see the good things that guys have and try to get those as well so women (they are the only ones screaming for equal rights) feel they are equal but they already are above men in relation to rights in my eyes. I don't see them wanting equal rights in hard jobs like fixing a blocked poo filled toilet or something like that. No then the women just giggle and say no you can do that.

 

How about equal rights in family law? The man gets screwed over big time, that is very one sided, at least in Australia.

[z00se]

Also i have to say i totally agree with what -K- has said in the whole topic. She is a woman (i guess anyhow) and am glad that she hasn't totally gone against things that i've said.

 

The OP sounds like he is trying to get help which is good and trying to improve the problem. And lucky for him his parents are supporting him still. But when it all boils down if you are 18+ and you don't like the rules at home, nomatter how rough you think they are, you should stand on your own 2 feet and get your own place. I moved out when i was 18, although i got along with my parents fine.

 

Nobody should have to put up with very violent abuse, and although the reciever can still be blamed for retaliating however they see fit, i can understand the retaliation. But thats also to say if somebody is hit the reciever also shouldn't retaliate with verbal abuse.

[Jetsun]

Not all social conditioning is bad, the shame associated with hitting women seems pretty appropriate and beneficial for society and for individuals because very rarely does any good come from hitting someone else, often it harms you and it harms the other person so there are no winners. The imbalance may be that women should feel more social shame for hitting men to even things out a bit rather than men should feel less shame for hitting women.

[z00se]

Argh I really feel like a failure. I was travelling for four months and seem to have lost my self control, peace and am gaining some bad habits again such as masturbation.

 

I was having a shower and my dad came down the stair shouting at me for doing so, 3 hours before his work because the hot water runs out, i didn't keep my cool i just shouted back.

 

Imagine you got your own house and you got a mate who asked if he could live with you. Hes got no money so you'll have to work overtime in a job you don't like to pay for his food n extra bills n stuff. He takes up space in your house, probably leaves a bit of a mess around too that you gotta pick up after doing your overtime because ya mate doesn't have a job but still doesn't have any time to clean up after himself. Then you get up early to start ya extra long day to pay for you're good mate, and when you go to get in the shower theres no hot water left because your mate was having a wank in there and used all the water. Then when you just crack it because you feel so tired too, then you're mate cracks it back at ya. Of course you will feel pretty pissed off.

 

I don't think you shoulda yelled back man, you should just say sorry and accept he's gunna be pissed off at ya. What you want to do more important than any sitting meditation is practicing at that moment when someones getting pissed off at you to just watch your breath and breath slowly only hearing the other person in the background. Stay relaxed and just listen to them without butting in and trying to say something, then just reply back calmly. If you can do that then you've already got the goal of meditation. Catch it early, as soon as you even start to notice yourself in a angry situation just start watching your breath, then you will stay in control. Once you have already lost control it is too hard to stop. Who cares what they say just listen to it while it's in the background of your breath, maybe concentrate on breath 80% and yelling person 20% so you still can just hear them. You don't need to fully process every word just be aware of the general idea that they are talking about.

 

Good luck

[Apech]

Imagine you got your own house and you got a mate who asked if he could live with you. Hes got no money so you'll have to work overtime in a job you don't like to pay for his food n extra bills n stuff. He takes up space in your house, probably leaves a bit of a mess around too that you gotta pick up after doing your overtime because ya mate doesn't have a job but still doesn't have any time to clean up after himself. Then you get up early to start ya extra long day to pay for you're good mate, and when you go to get in the shower theres no hot water left because your mate was having a wank in there and used all the water. Then when you just crack it because you feel so tired too, then you're mate cracks it back at ya. Of course you will feel pretty pissed off.

 

...

 

Tell him to wank faster the lazy slob.

[skydog]

Yes good posts zoose and jetsun

[markern]

Wow, this is one of the worst threads i have ever seen.

 

Zoose thinks he has the right to abuse women in his house because he is bigger and stronger?!?

 

 

And here it reads like you think women are just a life support system for their vaginas

 

 

 

Are you seriously that twisted?

 

If a woman is screaming at you, how about offering her your presence, and hearing what she has to say. She is screaming because she doesn't feel heard, and it has become her fall back strategy when nothing else gets through your thick head. As soon as she feels heard things will tone down.

The other option is that she gets a drama fix that she is addicted too and doesnt really care about the issue she is screaming about. If it turns out that that is the case, move out.

 

Feeling seriously pissed off...

 

I have never ever read or heard anyone suggesting a woman who is with a man who is screaming at her and being an asshole just needs to be heard and the solution is for the woman to improve because what the man wants her to see isn´t getting through her thick head. I doub`t I ever will. Great example of how men are always held to a much higher standard in how we treat women than women are in how they treat men. He is always the responsible one and she is the innocent one. If he acts badly it is his fault, if she acts badly it is his fault.

 

Even in the church it is like that:

 

http://haleyshalo.wordpress.com/2012/06/03/men-you-should-stop-abusing-your-wives-women-let-me-think-of-something-you-shouldnt-do/

 

 

Despite what everyone believes women are as, probably slightly more physically violent in relationships and they more often start the violence than men do when the violence is mutual. This is heavily researched and has been known for decades but have been systematically and successfully covered up by feminists. The most violent relationships are actually lesbian relationships:

 

 

 

http://elusivewapiti.blogspot.no/2012/06/some-facts-about-domestic-violence.html

 

A good site for men struggling with abusive women:

 

http://shrink4men.wordpress.com/

Edited July 18, 2012 by markern

[Birch]

It's a tough topic for me to comment on (per my female bias) I'm hardly going to argue for women being hit but neither should men be hit IMO. Nor should either indulge in emotional violence. I say the same for mothers towards their sons and daughters and fathers towards their sons and daughters. Sounds idealistic, sorry. Here's where equality for women has its advantage for all. If a woman is financially independent then she is in a position to leave AND be left in the relationship if it becomes unhealthy. From discussions with older people, this was not an option in the past. Hence taking mistresses (or the "pool boy") and continuing to present a neat "happily married family life" to society. But it also seems that despite financial independence, both men and women often lack emotional independence (arguably due to lack of mothering and fathering in childhood) and so seek out partners with whom to play out and finally resolve the issues, not realizing that it can't be done with the wrong person (the 'right' person being the one to 'mother' or 'father' at the right time.)

 

I also speak as a daughter who had her role as daughter corrupted to 'mother' her mother. It didn't work for anyone.

 

---opinion alert---

[z00se]

I'm probably going to lose all creditability by telling this but i can't help myself...

 

What do you tell a woman with 2 black eyes?

Nothing, you already told her twice haha JOKE!

[suninmyeyes]

That joke is like serving dog poo to your friends for dinner. Inappropriate and distatesfull.

There are your sisters on this board here reading this.

I would react the same to bad jokes about man by the way. It is just unecessary.

 

When about 12 years old my mum was getting starngeld by her psycho boyfriend , upon seeing this I took a big kitchen knife ready to defend my mums life. He saw I was serious and ran away.

You dont know what kind of suffernig people go through, human hearts are so fragile and should be treated with care. Being responsable and emotionally mature is a practise worth undertaking for all of us.

Always keeping in mind what kind of enviroment to create with idea/thought.

 

 

But it also seems that despite financial independence, both men and women often lack emotional independence (arguably due to lack of mothering and fathering in childhood) and so seek out partners with whom to play out and finally resolve the issues, not realizing that it can't be done with the wrong person (the 'right' person being the one to 'mother' or 'father' at the right time.)

This lack of emotional independece and maturity is the big issue nowdays regardless of gender. Emotional Wellbeing should be a compulsory subject in schools under which the way mind works , dreams , etc..could be discussed and tought.

[deci belle]

[skydog]

That joke is like serving dog poo to your friends for dinner. Inappropriate and distatesfull.

There are your sisters on this board here reading this.

I would react the same to bad jokes about man by the way. It is just unecessary.

 

When about 12 years old my mum was getting starngeld by her psycho boyfriend , upon seeing this I took a big kitchen knife ready to defend my mums life. He saw I was serious and ran away.

You dont know what kind of suffernig people go through, human hearts are so fragile and should be treated with care. Being responsable and emotionally mature is a practise worth undertaking for all of us.

Always keeping in mind what kind of enviroment to create with idea/thought.

 

 

 

This lack of emotional independece and maturity is the big issue nowdays regardless of gender. Emotional Wellbeing should be a compulsory subject in schools under which the way mind works , dreams , etc..could be discussed and tought.

 

I agree, Im not a fan of racist jokes as when I was younger, this was a topic that hurt me a lot, I know a lot of women arent fond of rape jokes, violence to women jokes etc, certain jokes while maybe not consciously harmful are.

 

I find your story completely understandable, however I may be digging a hole here but its pretty similar to other violence stories however it just seems to have more emotional appeal because a 12 year old girl and her mother is involved- social conditioning.

 

Also I don't actually think businesses and industries want a conscious thinking society, perhaps my own perception of thinking is a little paranoid.

[skydog]

[suninmyeyes]

.

Edited July 25, 2012 by suninmyeyes