Kumare! A brilliant docco!

[Seth Ananda]

I thought this was a thought provoking, moving and in some ways profound Doco about a fellow who decides to pretend to be a Guru...

 

http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/program/24076

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I thought this was a thought provoking, moving and in some ways profound Doco about a fellow who decides to pretend to be a Guru...

 

http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/program/24076

 

Looks really good - but the video only plays in Australia.. unless somebody can copy and youtube it, or maybe contacts the film maker? Seems a shame to make the documentary only to have it last one showing on tv...

[idiot_stimpy]

haha

[gendao]

I thought this was a thought provoking, moving and in some ways profound Doco about a fellow who decides to pretend to be a Guru...

 

http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/program/24076

Lol, that's obviously not a documentary, but a mockumentary spoof with paid actors, though..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Eyjeimdeg4

[Seth Ananda]

Lol, that's obviously not a documentary, but a mockumentary spoof with paid actors, though..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Eyjeimdeg4

No, watch it, its a brilliant social experiment. Docco, not Mocco...

[konchog uma]

yeah it looks legit

 

the movie is by the people who produced borat, my gf says

 

http://kumaremovie.com/

[z00se]

I thought this was a thought provoking, moving and in some ways profound Doco about a fellow who decides to pretend to be a Guru...

 

http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/program/24076

 

haha yes it is very good. Some people want to believe in magic or mystical gurus with super powers. 3 of them didn't even talk to him after he revealed who he was! And these are all guys who are very into spirituality, you wouldn't go on a big retreat like that if you weren't truly seeking spiritual truth. And when they finally become enlightened some of them don't like the truth and seek out more illusions. Some people really are funny.

[voidisyinyang]

It's on netflix - I just started it.

[voidisyinyang]

the end is intense! Wow I teared up and my heart opened it. It is powerful!

[Owledge]

So what's the message of that film? At least the trailer didn't reveal anything that's not trivially obvious.

[voidisyinyang]

So what's the message of that film? At least the trailer didn't reveal anything that's not trivially obvious.

 

It's multi-level -- a profound documentary -- an experience beyond words....

 

The form of the documentary is the message.

[Flolfolil]

i saw it at a public showing where we sat in groups and talked about our selves and what we though about it afterwards. i said i was into yoga and people literally started calling me a guru. It was pretty uncomfortale. i kept thinking about shaking them and asking if they were even paying attention to the movie at all...

 

the scene with the one energy healer is super gay. lol like mega ultra gay

[RiverSnake]

Just watched the preview. Shit looks crazy. Gonna see it.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

[RiverSnake]

Finished the movie. Powerful stuff.

[thelerner]

I didn't see all of it but I liked what I saw. I think it shouldn't be used to convince people that all gurus are fake. I've talked to some pretty smart people who are in awe of their gurus, seeing them as god incarnates on the earth. Its not my path, but I think some gurus may be very advanced enlightened beings and those who tie themselves to them get a huge push along the path. That being said it can mine field with false and fallen gurus before you find your Guru mate.

[Taomeow]

Yeah, it's a good documentary, and indeed there's several ways (at least) to get its "message." Here's mine:

 

in the taoist view I am most familiar with, cultivation encompasses the triple realm (earth, humanity, heaven), AKA lower, middle and upper, of which each one also has three levels, lower, middle and upper, to a total of nine. Most people seeking out and finding a guru of any denomination proceed to cultivate the lower level of the lower realm, that of people, things and events, with varying success.

 

On this level, "the guru within" or the "accidental guru" or even a "fake guru" may well suffice, since this level deals with externals and is rooted in externals, and so one is quite equipped to affect them when one undertakes to work with these. So, in the true story told by the movie, the guru is put together of a few externals -- costume, hair, accent, a mellow disposition and presentation -- and this suffices to affect the people involved in a way that causes them to change, positively in many cases, some of their own externals. There's some success in body and body image improvement, relationships and attitude improvement, some elements of self-reflection affecting decision-making in everyday life, an opening up of some new venues of interacting with the world of events and circumstances. So, if anything, the experiment proves that cultivation on the lower level of the lower realm is indeed a process available to anyone and not contingent on the guidance of a genuine teacher. ANY guidance by anyone who pays you enough attention proves beneficial.

 

This, in a world of non-problematic family relationships (long gone), would be provided by father and mother, older relatives, siblings... That's the function of a "fake guru" -- to be a temporary stand-off for what was missed out on. And, well, it works, as the first step it does.

 

To draw any other conclusions from this would be unwarranted. Just because you don't really need a teacher to teach you how to tie your shoelaces and can figure it out by observation and contemplation does not mean that you don't need a teacher to learn how to design a rollercoaster, and becoming proficient in playing with Lego blocks does not automatically translate into being able to play with adenine, guanine, thymine and cytosine blocks.

[voidisyinyang]

Yeah, it's a good documentary, and indeed there's several ways (at least) to get its "message." Here's mine:

 

in the taoist view I am most familiar with, cultivation encompasses the triple realm (earth, humanity, heaven), AKA lower, middle and upper, of which each one also has three levels, lower, middle and upper, to a total of nine. Most people seeking out and finding a guru of any denomination proceed to cultivate the lower level of the lower realm, that of people, things and events, with varying success.

 

On this level, "the guru within" or the "accidental guru" or even a "fake guru" may well suffice, since this level deals with externals and is rooted in externals, and so one is quite equipped to affect them when one undertakes to work with these. So, in the true story told by the movie, the guru is put together of a few externals -- costume, hair, accent, a mellow disposition and presentation -- and this suffices to affect the people involved in a way that causes them to change, positively in many cases, some of their own externals. There's some success in body and body image improvement, relationships and attitude improvement, some elements of self-reflection affecting decision-making in everyday life, an opening up of some new venues of interacting with the world of events and circumstances. So, if anything, the experiment proves that cultivation on the lower level of the lower realm is indeed a process available to anyone and not contingent on the guidance of a genuine teacher. ANY guidance by anyone who pays you enough attention proves beneficial.

 

This, in a world of non-problematic family relationships (long gone), would be provided by father and mother, older relatives, siblings... That's the function of a "fake guru" -- to be a temporary stand-off for what was missed out on. And, well, it works, as the first step it does.

 

To draw any other conclusions from this would be unwarranted. Just because you don't really need a teacher to teach you how to tie your shoelaces and can figure it out by observation and contemplation does not mean that you don't need a teacher to learn how to design a rollercoaster, and becoming proficient in playing with Lego blocks does not automatically translate into being able to play with adenine, guanine, thymine and cytosine blocks.

 

Nice summary!

 

Yeah the tragedy of the doc is that his real guru status was a reflection of him being raised by good parents and his healthy, handsome, with charisma, intelligent, caring, etc.

 

So yeah he's a very good role model for people who tragically more than often are surrounded by damaged goods. haha.

[Flolfolil]

do you think people would have seen through it if he looked, talked, moved the same way, said all the same stuff but didn't genuinely buy any of the stuff he was saying?

[voidisyinyang]

do you think people would have seen through it if he looked, talked, moved the same way, said all the same stuff but didn't genuinely buy any of the stuff he was saying?

 

I think the four people who stopped talking to him were attached to his superficial trappings and never got the deeper meaning about how everything is an illusion and how he was really fake just as much as they were fake.

 

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/416832/july-23-2012/vikram-gandhi

 

People really are fake .... when they are attached to their social superficial personalities. It happens to all of us pretty easily....

 

This fakeness goes deep though. I think he didn't take it that deep but deeper than most.

 

It's what Gurdjieff called the Number 3 person.

[Mal]

Quite enjoyable and good to see Kumare was able to make a "positive" difference for most of his disciples.

 

It was pretty scary at the end wondering how they were going to react to the unveiling ... now I'm off to practice some blue light meditation

 

[skydog]

hmm

Edited March 26, 2013 by sinansencer

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Just had the following thought:

 

 

Some gurus are like taxi cabs for tourists. If you don't know where your going, they'll take you all over the place and tell you it gets to where you want to go. Scriptures (especially) and commentaries are road maps to help us find our way around until we eventually get to know the roads for ourselves.

 

 

(ed. to add)

Of course others are like tour guides who can take you to the best places you never knew existed.

 

Deep sea diving may require an instructor for any success.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Harmonious Emptiness

[Xienkula1]

Lol I watched it...and frankly I was very disappointed, I was expecting Vikram to really push the limits, and he barely breached them, he could have taken this much further....It also could have used humour far more, been far more outrageous.

But it seems Vikram developed a guilt complex fooling everyone as a Fake that he felt a need to be genuine so he could still live with himself, and this got in the way of actually proving his point. Finally, he does a service by showing how easy it is to make up a fake hodge podge cosmology and sell belief systems like brands of coffee. But in away, setting out to prove that every cultivator is just brainwashing themselves into some kind of perceived spiritual trance, has its merits and demerits, and is somewhat insulting to the real cultivators and mocks the years of dedication they invested in conditioning their bodies and minds, in such ways that can actually be documented in a repeated observable fashion...

[Owledge]

@Xienkula

There might be a portion of belief in oneself in all spiritual practices. The movie demonstrated the power of the mind and of belief.

[oildrops]

I watched this the other night and I found it very thought provoking, to say the least. I felt awful for the woman who had integrated his teaching into her yoga studio- that seemed like it could be damaging to her career and business and she seemed to genuinely want to help people as much as he did.

 

I really enjoy the sacha baron cohen films for his ability to expose amusing and often disturbing facets of culture. I think kumare gives a relevant glimpse into some specific types of people, but doesn't reflect on the yoga communities that I am involved with, or everyone who seeks guidance in their spiritual path, so I guess those people in the film did need that lesson. I would have appreciated the lesson it more if they didn't make a movie out of it though, since it seemed that it was his goal to make a successful movie more than helping people at times. The folks who became his followers were all very good hearted people, but reflected the spiritual gaps in their culture. Definitely worth watching, it really got some gears turning for me.