Mantak Chia for Iron Shirt and Iron Pants

[shaq786]

Is Mantak Chia any good for iron shirt? I dont know where else to go. I have some instructors in my area but those are more on the healing side they teach a small bit of nei gong. And obviously no one on amazon has a book on iron shirt. And lastly is there a such thing as iron pants? I want to be able to take leg kicks to the outside and inside thighs without having to check them.

[Age Sage]

I have not met Mantak Chia but have read his "Iron Shirt Chi Kung" and "Internal Structure of Tai Chi." They do have a pretty solid foundation in creating the body structure and power generation needed to apply to taiji and other Internal Martial Arts. A lot of what I read in those books correlated directly to what I have learned in practice.

 

As to taking kicks to the thighs, yes it's doable. It is not something you learn right out of the box, though. You have to start by creating an internally structured and powered body, and there is a very specific sequence of practices you need to do and build on to get to the point where you can receive and return force that way.

 

One criticism I have heard about Chia, and I do not know whether it's true (I don't like rumors so hopefully someone here can corroborate yea or nay) is that the contents of his books are actually the work of his teacher, and that Chia simply published it but is not at the skill level of the things presented in the books. Caveat emptor.

 

I think you would do well to look up F.S. "Sam" Chin, the inheritor and innovator of his family internal martial art, I Liq Chuan. I have met him and he has high level skills and is an excellent teacher. Furthermore, he does workshops and seminars around the world and has disciples and students who are certified instructors all over the world, too. You may be able to find one of them and train or to travel to a seminar and then work with his DVDs between workshops. It's a VERY cogent system and is broken down into exercises and principles you can work on at any level and be able to make progress.

 

There is a video on the I Liq Chuan website that shows one of Chin's high-ranked instructors in Russia, taking full-on roundhouse kicks to the outer thighs and hips, and sending the force back into the kicker. Check it out. I think it's in this documentary here, along with a good overview of I Liq Chuan and Sam Chin:

http://iliqchuan.com/content/master-sam-fs-chin-apperance-dan-test-tv-show

Edited July 19, 2012 by Age Sage

[寒月 Hanyue]

Chia's Iron Shirt and I liq chuan are not related and nothing alike in practice, just to be clear.

 

Best,

[Trunk]

Some cautions about Chia's Iron Shirt from a HT instructor.

[Cheshire Cat]

Iron shirt 1 is a mean to strengthen internal organs and fill them with Qi.

Since there aren't vital organs in the legs, you should rely on conditioning (thai style for example) and Iron Shirt 3 which strengthen the skeletal structure and bone marrow.

 

 

Is Mantak Chia any good for iron shirt? I dont know where else to go. I have some instructors in my area but those are more on the healing side they teach a small bit of nei gong. And obviously no one on amazon has a book on iron shirt. And lastly is there a such thing as iron pants? I want to be able to take leg kicks to the outside and inside thighs without having to check them.

[z00se]

Is Mantak Chia any good for iron shirt? I dont know where else to go. I have some instructors in my area but those are more on the healing side they teach a small bit of nei gong. And obviously no one on amazon has a book on iron shirt. And lastly is there a such thing as iron pants? I want to be able to take leg kicks to the outside and inside thighs without having to check them.

 

Having practiced it for about 7 years or so i can say it works very well. I suggest do it every week day and have the weekends off. Look on youtube for videos on how to do it, he has put up videos of his lectures and you can piece it together. The book is very good too and you should read it but also watch the videos before you start to do it. Be gentle and don't do it too hard until you build up over a few months. I generally use it for health but i have started hitting with sticks for a martial iron shirt recently. I made my own wire hitter and have used that for a long time though. The wire hitter is good. Do iron shirt 1. Iron shirt 3 you need to be VERY good at energy practices. Unless you have done MCO and fusion 1, 2 & 3 to a very high level don't do Iron shirt 3, you will hurt yourself, there is too much chi generated, and you can't just tell it to stop - you can feel very uncomfortable for a couple of days after.

[Age Sage]

Chia's Iron Shirt and I liq chuan are not related and nothing alike in practice, just to be clear.

 

Best,

 

I realize that, and good point. I mentioned I Liq Chuan because it does have the internal methods and applications necessary to receive and return force, including hard kicks to the thighs. There are only so many ways that the human body can ground and return force through the frame. Since the OP is interested in that kind of application, I thought that ILC was worth mentioning.

[Age Sage]

Iron shirt 1 is a mean to strengthen internal organs and fill them with Qi.

Since there aren't vital organs in the legs, you should rely on conditioning (thai style for example) and Iron Shirt 3 which strengthen the skeletal structure and bone marrow.

 

Being able to take blows to the legs is very much connected to internal body practices that unify the entire body. You don't "condition" the legs by subjecting them to blows; you learn to redirect force using internal coiling or winding processes that redirect the force. I wouldn't use muay Thai conditioning, I'd opt for one of the internal training methods such as that for I Liq Chuan, Xingyi or Bagua (that is, from legit systems and teachers who actually have real internal skills to teach).

[Jox]

Being able to take blows to the legs is very much connected to internal body practices that unify the entire body. You don't "condition" the legs by subjecting them to blows; you learn to redirect force using internal coiling or winding processes that redirect the force. I wouldn't use muay Thai conditioning, I'd opt for one of the internal training methods such as that for I Liq Chuan, Xingyi or Bagua (that is, from legit systems and teachers who actually have real internal skills to teach).

 

Just to remember you...

In the past many Chinese internal martial arts practitioners went to Thailand,

to fight against Thai boxers... Outcome was most usually the same, they were knocked out usually at first round. Simple as that...

 

Jox,

Edited July 19, 2012 by Jox

[shaq786]

Just to remember you...

In the past many Chinese internal martial arts practitioners went to Thailand,

to fight against Thai boxers... Outcome was most usually the same, they were knocked out usually at first round. Simple as that...

 

Jox,

 

But on the flip side many Muay Thai fighters came to china to fight San Shou guys under San Shou rules and muay thai lost. But I think a good martial artists knows the external and the internal arts. What about a Muay Thai fighter whos well versed in iron shirt and iron pants? Thats a deadly combo.

[Age Sage]

Jox,

MAs with percussive kicks and blows, such as muay Thai, have conditioning methods that work fine for dealing with percussive blows to the big outer muscles of the thigh and leg. But in my observation they can't handle the concussive power of internal attacks. For that you need a different conditioning strategy, and that involves learning how to maneuver the body internally to redirect force, both percussive and concussive.

 

Regards!

[Cheshire Cat]

In the legs we have:

1)bones, cartilage

2)muscles

3)tendon, joints

 

It would be very funny to see a demonstration of "redirecting" a real blow.

But if we want to strengthen the legs for real, we should rely on

 

- iron shirt 3 or equal internal practice(for point 1)

- training and conditioning the muscles (for point 2)

- stretching and special training for tendon power (for point 3)

- centuries in zhang zhuang (for 1, 2,3,4,5,6)

 

You can also visualize rainbows an golden unicorns in your legs, but if you rely on this alone it won't work

[Age Sage]

In the legs we have:

1)bones, cartilage

2)muscles

3)tendon, joints

 

It would be very funny to see a demonstration of "redirecting" a real blow.

But if we want to strengthen the legs for real, we should rely on

 

- iron shirt 3 or equal internal practice(for point 1)

- training and conditioning the muscles (for point 2)

- stretching and special training for tendon power (for point 3)

- centuries in zhang zhuang (for 1, 2,3,4,5,6)

 

You can also visualize rainbows an golden unicorns in your legs, but if you rely on this alone it won't work

 

It's not about visualizing, but of using intent to manipulate the neuromuscular system. It's how you use your body, including the legs, as one unified piece, and how you manipulate those internal tissues and the skeletal frame to create structure that is capable of manipulating force.

 

Intent is not visualization, it is willful command of the neuromuscular system.

 

It should not take "centuries of zhang zhuang" to develop the skills. More like 10 years to get to a high enough level of skill. The foundational skills should be attainable within 4-5 years.

 

No unicorns needed.

Edited July 21, 2012 by Age Sage

[tumoessence]

Is Mantak Chia any good for iron shirt? I dont know where else to go. I have some instructors in my area but those are more on the healing side they teach a small bit of nei gong. And obviously no one on amazon has a book on iron shirt. And lastly is there a such thing as iron pants? I want to be able to take leg kicks to the outside and inside thighs without having to check them.

 

There is the Keen book in the Kindle at Amazon and a hard copy available. Iron Vest. I don't see the book anymore, but there is the DVD. Lulu publishes the book.

Iron Vest

Similar to that passed on in the Wu family taiji I hear. Some familiar postures as Chia's Iron Shirt.

[Leif]

Chris Matsuo http://dragongatesanctuary.com has an Iron Shirt DVD

 

(I liked GM Doo Wai's demo on

on Iron Shin and Iron Forearm but don't know whetehr/where they teach it. ) Edited July 22, 2012 by Leif

[buddhafist]

I can recommend Chris Lomas Iron Body DVD. Well explained und very good production.

Also theres an iron body DVD from Coiling Dragon and also from The Iron Lotus Society, I think

they are worth the money too.

 

Regards