Drop all Mantras (Even that one), Do nothing (not even doing nothing)

[3bob]

You said that well.

 

Thanks MH

[3bob]

What do you mean by demonic?

 

in looking into the eyes our own potential demon such is revealed...

[Lucky7Strikes]

Me! Lived with sanyassins for a few years! Read tons of his books.

 

He was quite brilliant at telling rich white people and white hippies what they wanted to hear so that they would give him tons of money.

 

He was a drug dependent F%*k wit in my book!

The stories I have heard form people who knew him personally... wow.

 

On the good side at least he did promote meditation, and a few, very few, of his disciples took that on, in an in depth manner.

 

No one of note have been produced by his teachings.

 

But there are tens of thousands of self satisfied baby boomers, who have his picture on their walls, while they get fat and rich on real estate, or as CEO's and live in narcissistic bubbles, where having a weekly colonic followed by a cranial-sacral body work session after which they scream out any trauma of the day, and consider it to be the height of spiritual living.

 

I know he said to drop all mantras, but in reality he taught one: Me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me....

Haha! Thanks. What were the sanyassins like? Did they all scream really loud every day too? I actually wanted to see if anyone on thetaobums met with him.

 

I personally like Osho and find his teachings valuable. It really doesn't bother me that he was drug dependent. Or left a bunch of weird egotistical followers. He meant to provoke.

 

On another note, are you around melbourne? If you are, I highly recommend attending this: http://australia.innerengineering.com/

 

(also, wouldn't mind a feedback. )

[Lucky7Strikes]

in looking into the eyes our own potential demon such is revealed...

you mean osho's eyes turned people into demons?

[C T]

One simply has to take one's hat off to this guy... he was the latter-day 'king' of spiritual spin, spawning a whole new plethora of wide-eyed, chilled-out, cluelessy folks who incessantly sip chai, wear silly garbs, and mentally and physically gyrate to classical sitar tunes. In fact, Osho was a big fan of the legendary sitar maestro Baba Alauddin Khan. Ahh... never mind, just a bit of Osho trivia is all.

 

Short tribute to Baba:

 

Like Seth, i too was once an ardent reader of his 'works'. Back then, no 'spiritual' gathering was complete without tossing Osho's name around, and his writings were always a great way to strike up kinship with the ardent followers of pop pseudo-spirituality at that time.

[Mark Foote]

On the one hand Im sure this is not something someone new to this would get.

 

But anyways I just like to have a walk...so first I have a walk- do healing sounds, inner smile, let go and just do nothing letting myself walk, opening the heart.

 

Things pop up to from my trance state,

 

and I get the idea from OSHO about dropping all mantras, which is interesting, then I realise this is a mantra..so

 

Also Ive liked this idea of doing nothing- spontaneiouty, letting everything be done by itself, wu wei...Letting go

 

But I also realise this can become like a mantra..

 

In fact most thoughts are a mantra ( a technique to make one feel better or fix mood)

 

The discussion about Osho reminds me of an article I read by Steven Bodian, on Advaita, and the differences between Zen and a philosophy like Advaita. Yes there have been and are amazing individuals who teach a presence that has ease and joy as innate constituents, who manifest such a presence, and for whom any practice is really secondary. Maybe Osho was one of them, I don't know. Here's what I wrote on my blog, with the practice of zazen in mind, and starting with a quote by Brit Pyland from an interview with David Chadwick:

 

'"For me, memories of Suzuki Roshi are things I think about in the past, but I find different ways of bringing him present. Like, how would you put on your socks if Suzuki Roshi were standing right there? Or how would you do anything?" (the full interview is here)

 

Pyland points to what he felt in Shunryu Suzuki's presence, that being a keen awareness of action, of what is being done and how it's being done.

 

Blanche Hartman quotes Shunryu Suzuki as saying, "Don't ever think that you can sit zazen! That's a big mistake! Zazen sits zazen!" (in her interview, here). I myself heard Kobun say, "you know, sometimes zazen gets up and walks around." Is it any wonder that Shunryu Suzuki's presence inspired an awareness of action, of the what and how of action, when for Suzuki zazen sat zazen?

 

Herein lies the difficulty with teachings that have no practice: there's no way to convey that being just as I am, where I am, acts (for such a teaching, see Advaita and Zen, by Steven Bodian). On the other hand, teachings that have a practice appear on the surface to advocate something in addition to being just as I am, where I am, and that, as Suzuki pointed out, is "a big mistake!".

 

My approach now is to look to waking up and falling asleep as I am where I am. What I find is that when I am just as I am where I am, I am in fact waking up or falling asleep in action. This is how seeing things as they really are is zazen sitting zazen, or zazen getting up and walking around.' (my blog is here).

 

What is the practice that I do anyway? What is the mantra that I already know how to speak? I would say it's the same as "doing nothing", yet the doing nothing that impresses me is the one wherein everything is done.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Mark Foote

[3bob]

you mean osho's eyes turned people into demons?

 

that was not said, suggest 2nd read.

[3bob]

One simply has to take one's hat off to this guy... he was the latter-day 'king' of spiritual spin, spawning a whole new plethora of wide-eyed, chilled-out, cluelessy folks who incessantly sip chai, wear silly garbs, and mentally and physically gyrate to classical sitar tunes. In fact, Osho was a big fan of the legendary sitar maestro Baba Alauddin Khan. Ahh... never mind, just a bit of Osho trivia is all.

 

Short tribute to Baba:

 

Like Seth, i too was once an ardent reader of his 'works'. Back then, no 'spiritual' gathering was complete without tossing Osho's name around, and his writings were always a great way to strike up kinship with the ardent followers of pop pseudo-spirituality at that time.

 

how sophisticatedly brain dead of you after the fact... btw one of his closest companions and lover or whatever he used her for, (?) killed herself after their falling out. (among countless other destructive relationships, thus rememberences of sitar stories don't mean a damm)

[Lucky7Strikes]

that was not said, suggest 2nd read.

Sorry, I guess I exaggerated a bit what you wrote.

 

So Osho's eyes revealed potential demons in people? I'm really interested if that's the case. Can you share an experience or a source where you got this from?

Edited July 23, 2012 by Lucky7Strikes

[skydog]

the topic was about wu wei not about how much everyone hates osho..although i never saw oshos teachings in the light that he never taught virtue etc

 

however imo someone can only do so much...eg for a materialistic person to look at conspiracy theories is getting them closer to enlightenment, however its a very negative state.

 

Maybe consciousness is all thats neccessary for "good behaviour"

 

Also I think its correct that a lot of peopletry to push too much moralistic bullshit onto people that they themselves do not follow even taoism talks about how morals can be misleading and following the way is moral.

 

To get rich materialistic people into seeing things differently in a fun, entertaining way is not easy.

 

For all you people that critisize osho..what have you done thats so much better than him? Everyone loves to critisize and point fingers.

[3bob]

Sorry, I guess I exaggerated a bit what you wrote.

 

So Osho's eyes revealed potential demons in people? I'm really interested if that's the case. Can you share an experience or a source where you got this from?

 

that was still not said, (obviously) go fish.

[Lucky7Strikes]

that was still not said, (obviously) go fish.

No need to be condescending. Did you mean maybe you meant that somehow your view of Osho's eyes made you think he was demonic. That his eyes reveal some demon potential in him (and all of us as well)?

 

In that case, I'd like to ask if this is a particular ability you have, as in how you know a demonic eye vs. a non-demonic one and what you mean when someone is demonic.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Lucky7Strikes

[3bob]

No need to be condescending. Did you mean maybe you meant that somehow your view of Osho's eyes made you think he was demonic. That his eyes reveal some demon potential in him (and all of us as well)?

 

In that case, I'd like to ask if this is a particular ability you have, as in how you know a demonic eye vs. a non-demonic one and what you mean when someone is demonic.

 

What was said: "in looking into the eyes our own potential demon such is revealed..."

 

simply meaning that at some point one will meet the potential 'eye to eye' inside of themselves of becoming demonic like and falling to it, or in overcoming it; further when we wrestle with our demon like potential the same reveals some of it ways and means to us, ways and means that are not very picky about or exclusive in their negative effect on human beings and thus can often be recognized. (aka "judge the tree by its fruit")

[thetaoiseasy]

nah,i won't say anyhting about osho. its none of my business

Edited July 23, 2012 by thetaoiseasy

[konchog uma]

For all you people that critisize osho..what have you done thats so much better than him? Everyone loves to critisize and point fingers.

 

i have refrained from leading people into hedonistic self indulgence in the name of fad spirituality (tantra)

 

i have attempted to cut to the root of mind instead of getting lost in its byways

 

i have attempted to cut through spiritual materialism (am leading a study group on that book next month at my sangha for bonus points)

 

i am not a "drug addled fuckwit"

 

i have never taken part in the poisoning of a public food supply

 

i have cultivated myself sincerely, in an earnest attempt to transcend my conditioned self and live in spontaneous harmony with the way.

 

i can get by with only one automobile

 

i could go on

 

edit: why is this personal now? osho's rolls royces and biological warfare lab at his ashram speak for themselves. why am i making a silly list of so called accomplishments? does this serve a purpose?

Edited July 23, 2012 by anamatva

[skydog]

i have refrained from leading people into hedonistic self indulgence in the name of fad spirituality (tantra)

 

i have attempted to cut to the root of mind instead of getting lost in its byways

 

i have attempted to cut through spiritual materialism (am leading a study group on that book next month at my sangha for bonus points)

 

i am not a "drug addled fuckwit"

 

i have never taken part in the poisoning of a public food supply

 

i have cultivated myself sincerely, in an earnest attempt to transcend my conditioned self and live in spontaneous harmony with the way.

 

i can get by with only one automobile

 

i could go on

 

edit: why is this personal now? osho's rolls royces and biological warfare lab at his ashram speak for themselves. why am i making a silly list of so called accomplishments? does this serve a purpose?

 

I do not BELIEVE anything about osho, I dont know if he was good or bad, however I find his teachings very wise and humurous, a good teacher gets their message across, gets you to listen, puts in humour stories etc and he was a good teacher.

 

Every point you made can be argued.

 

Spiritual Materialism- If you make people pay for something, they take it more seriously, why shouldnt rich people pay for something when theyre paying 200,000 dollars for a car or 300 dollars for a meal,, money is an energy that can be used for good. I agree with some of the points argued about spiritual materialism but not all of them.

 

Poisoning of a public food supply- This could be a rumour or a conspiracy theory, seperate fact from possible event

 

Rolls Royces- none of them were actually his and it was a shock factor, when you shock people they listen to what you have to say, why would rich people take a poor person seriously, or a boring person seriously in a culture addicted to weird trivia, also since when does having nice things make you a bad person, since when does having wealth make you a bad person? Is that a belief? All rich people are evil? Osho was trying to make a point of having a life of luxury and spiritual bliss

 

I find it funny that on a spiritual forum of people cultivating, people have so many arguments and get so aggressive about tiny details

Edited July 23, 2012 by sinansencer

[Lucky7Strikes]

What was said: "in looking into the eyes our own potential demon such is revealed..."

 

simply meaning that at some point one will meet the potential 'eye to eye' inside of themselves of becoming demonic like and falling to it, or in overcoming it; further when we wrestle with our demon like potential the same reveals some of it ways and means to us, ways and means that are not very picky about or exclusive in their negative effect on human beings and thus can often be recognized. (aka "judge the tree by its fruit")

So basically you think Osho is demonic because the negative effects he had on people around him.

[konchog uma]

Every point you made can be argued.

 

every point ever made can be argued. that statement means nothing. and it definitely doesnt mean im interested in arguing about it. i answered your question because you asked! of course if youre argumentative or think you know the answer already youre going to protest... so what? and if you find excessive luxury, scandal, promiscuity, and a biological weapons lab "minor details" about a gurus life, thats well like your opinion man.

 

[3bob]

every point ever made can be argued. that statement means nothing. and it definitely doesnt mean im interested in arguing about it. i answered your question because you asked! of course if youre argumentative or think you know the answer already youre going to protest... so what? and if you find excessive luxury, scandal, promiscuity, and a biological weapons lab "minor details" about a gurus life, thats well like your opinion man.

 

 

Eureka! (or along such lines)

[3bob]

So basically you think Osho is demonic because the negative effects he had on people around him.

 

? Are you playing some kind goofy role here? Who cares what I think, such is a very tiny grain of sand; while the subject matter is something bigger.

Edited July 24, 2012 by 3bob

[Lucky7Strikes]

? Are you playing some kind goofy role here? Who cares what I think, such is a very tiny grain of sand; while the subject matter is something bigger.

Hm? Bob, I care what you think. That's why I'm engaged in a conversation with you...

 

I wanted to simply know your knowledge and experience behind that statement: Osho was demonic. So is what I wrote above as an assessment of your statement right? I assumed you had an in depth knowledge of him, or possibly met him in person, especially since you mentioned eyes. Osho was known for his stare.

 

Demonic is a powerful word to use when describing someone. So I wanted to know why you used it in this context. That's all.

[3bob]

Hm? Bob, I care what you think. That's why I'm engaged in a conversation with you...

 

I wanted to simply know your knowledge and experience behind that statement: Osho was demonic. So is what I wrote above as an assessment of your statement right? I assumed you had an in depth knowledge of him, or possibly met him in person, especially since you mentioned eyes. Osho was known for his stare.

 

Demonic is a powerful word to use when describing someone. So I wanted to know why you used it in this context. That's all.

 

I don't mind a fishing expedition to a certain extent but you have enough information to land your own fish and eat it to... (btw someone relating to Osho with words around enlighenment and dropping mantra is also "powerful" as you put it)

Edited July 24, 2012 by 3bob

[Jetsun]

I used to be into Osho and practised his dynamic meditations for a while, he did have a great mind and talent at communicating spiritual ideas and cross referencing different paths. I liked how he combined Eastern and Western spirituality with modern psychology, very few people have been able to do that, so as an academic he was great but for me the meditations didn't work and I then wrote him off as an accomplished teacher because I couldn't see any evidence of him benefiting anyone and there was so much controversy.

 

But then this year I met a Buddhist nun who had a number of friends who stayed with Osho in the 70's for some time and they apparently benefited enormously from his teachings and he helped open them up, so maybe he wasn't so bad. I still don't think he was a great master but he may have played an important role in all this as i'm sure his ideas touched many people who may not have been interested in such spiritual areas and his teachings may have helped prepare the ground for some people to move onto more powerful paths

[skydog]

every point ever made can be argued. that statement means nothing. and it definitely doesnt mean im interested in arguing about it. i answered your question because you asked! of course if youre argumentative or think you know the answer already youre going to protest... so what? and if you find excessive luxury, scandal, promiscuity, and a biological weapons lab "minor details" about a gurus life, thats well like your opinion man.

 

 

osho always lectured about how stupid religions were, do you think he didn't have enemies, in my opinion this stuff about poisoining someone or whatever he did was either made up or something that can be justified in some way I dont know.

 

Promiscuity? This is your opinion on sex

Excessive Luxury? What is this again

 

oh and calling someone opinionated because they dont agree with you is a bit ignorant

 

Id say the first post was about wu wei why is there 3 pages of conversation about osho

Edited July 24, 2012 by sinansencer

[Jetsun]

osho always lectured about how stupid religions were, do you think he didn't have enemies, in my opinion this stuff about poisoining someone or whatever he did was either made up or something that can be justified in some way I dont know.

 

My understanding of the poisoning thing was that Osho had some bad people around him who were responsible for the poisoning, Osho was never charged for it but was deported, how much he really knew about what was really going on is hard to say. But there is no doubt he had enemies as he was running a liberal Communist type ashram on American soil at the height of anti Soviet propaganda. Some even thought he was the most dangerous man in America at that time which could be why he was killed if you believe some people. It is a pretty interesting story though I recommend reading his autobiography