Internal x External Martial Arts

[Marks of Glory]

Greetings...

 

I am a Kundalini Yoga practitioner and am starting to use daoist qigong methods in my practice.

 

I have a strong foundation on flexibility an hui-yin / mulabandha, anal and vajroli muscles control and breathing... so I feel the energy kind of fast...

 

so... I am buildinh leg power and rooting with zhan zhuang (from book "chi kung: way of power" My link very interesstin, straight foward and effectiv book, by the way)

 

I started practicing taiji now, and when my legs get much stronge, making my body "lighter" I wil start practicing bagua....

 

I' like to know if you think it is necessary to learn and practice external kung fu also.. because I kinda of don't really want to earn those martial arts for self defence... only if it is necessary for further energy work...

 

or maybe the horse stance - taiji - bagua - training is enough

 

thank you!

[ChiDragon]

You are doing fine. Internal practice is the prerequisite for external practice. The purpose of Internal practice was to build up the energy in the muscles for the external strength. Hence, you do not need to practice anything else.

Edited July 21, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Jeramiah Zeitigeist]

Taiji and Bagua training will give you everything you need, and more.

 

ChiDragon speaks the truth.

[thelerner]

A book that might peak your interest would be Glenn Morris (great book, poorly titled) 'Pathnotes of Ninja Grandmaster'. It talks about his journey through gi gung, kundalini and esoteric martial & energy arts. It has chapters of interesting people he's met along the way. It's a good read and has one leg in Internal arts, another in the martial world.

[Marks of Glory]

ChiDragon and Jeramiah Zeitigeist, thank you for the info.

 

Thelerner. I will check out the book mentioned, thank you.

 

I tried out some external kung fu here last year but I was getting far too exausted... during the training my legs were simply heavy heavy heavy.. almost lethargic...

 

probably my energy was kind of "lefty", running trhough the Ida nadi, or Yin...

I discovered that my energy was kind of "lefty" only last week, when I managed to finally "hold on to both sides"

 

I really had to make an effort to hold on to the right side of my body, because there was, ans still is a very trong tendency to turning my energy "to the left", and when that happens, I kind of loose contact with my physical body and feel my energy spiraling around my body, in a smoky manner.. it feels as if my head is spinning round.. kinda like the exorcist way...

 

when I held my energy on the middle, or, better still "on both sides" it was funny because I could feel my physical body on the right side of my body, and my left side stayed kind of "smoky" and vapourish. remembered me some stories about xamans, that can transform themselves into anything, i think it by hold on into both sides, and directin the left, vapourish side to the object into which he want's to transform himself, or a person if he wanted to read there mind or control her i some manner. I also had some "pure right side" experiences, where I could feel perfectly my whole body, and felt very strong and energy and able to cope with physical exercise... I felt very powerful and grounded.

 

Any ways... I will continue with my internal practice, and if I manage to control my left / right energy mechanisms in the future I will probably get involved into some external styles also.

[Diamond Spectrum]

Where internal and external meet there is harmony. The art is making music from heart beats, breath and sinew.

[Marks of Glory]

If I separate 2 hours on the end of the day to practice internal chi kung and external exercises such as push ups, stance training, etc... which one shoul I perform first?

 

I thought that this would be the best:

 

1st - qigong

 

2nd - bring intent to lowe dantien to condensce energy

 

3rd - external exercise

 

4th - bring intent to lower dantien to consence energy.

 

anyone has opinions on the case?

[ChiDragon]

3rd - external exercise

 

4th - bring intent OUT OF lower dan tien to reduce energy.

[baiqi]

or maybe the horse stance - taiji - bagua - training is enough

 

If your goal is just energy work, I think this is good enough. You don't need- in my opinion- external martial arts. Even for self defence, internal martial arts can fit the bill...if the martial aspects are taught at all!

 

However, do not neglect the physical side: running, stretching, even lifting some weights.

[ChiDragon]

or maybe the horse stance - taiji - bagua - training is enough

 

If your goal is just energy work, I think this is good enough. You don't need- in my opinion- external martial arts. Even for self defence, internal martial arts can fit the bill...if the martial aspects are taught at all!

 

However, do not neglect the physical side: running, stretching, even lifting some weights.

 

Don't you classify running, stretching, even lifting some weights as external practice....???

[Diamond Spectrum]

It is where they meet in which it manifests. The 8 pointed stars relationship to pi. It is neither inside nor outside. Peace to your practice. DS

[Marks of Glory]

3rd - external exercise

 

4th - bring intent OUT OF lower dan tien to reduce energy.

 

 

ChiDragon...

 

I thought that it is recomended to condensce the qi in the lower inner dantian after exercise as for not to loose the energy created.

 

isn't it the "outer lower dantien" (the one actually in the conception vessel, some inches below the navel), also known as elixir furnace, that produces alot of energy...

 

and the inner dantien stores alot of energy??

[ChiDragon]

ChiDragon...

 

I thought that it is recomended to condensce the qi in the lower inner dantian after exercise as for not to loose the energy created.

 

isn't it the "outer lower dantien" (the one actually in the conception vessel, some inches below the navel), also known as elixir furnace, that produces alot of energy...

 

and the inner dantien stores alot of energy??

 

There are lots of misconception about the terminology "dan tian" in the west. "Dan tian" is just a location on the body for the convenience of identifiaction. There was no such thing as outer nor inner dan tian. People were misinterpreted the phrase "sink chi to the dan tian". They thought it was meant to store energy to the dan tian. However, it was not the case. In Chi Kung, it was meant to breathe and send the breath(chi) deep down to the abdomen. People cannot stay away from thinking that Chi is always meant "energy".

 

"sink chi to the dan tian" simply means "abdominal breathing" in Chi Kung or martial arts. Your body cannot and does not store energy, it can only generate the energy as long you will used it. If not, it will be gone in few seconds. Your energy will not build up until you take another breath again. Another words, as long you hold your breath deep down in your dan tain, then the energy will be started to generate. As soon you release the breath in the dan tian, your have loss the ability to generate more energy. Unfortunately, there are not many people understand this concept.

 

To understand this concept, you may observe the weight lifters. The weight lifters always take a deep breath and hold before they lift any weights off the floor. I'm sure that you have noticed they always have a belt around the waist to help them to hold their breath. The idea was to keep the energy going to lift the weights for few seconds. Actually, they were using the basic concept of "sink chi to the dan tian". Under the condition of "sink chi to the dan tian", your body muscles will generate the energy holistically. The energy was not from the dan tain as one might thought.

[Marks of Glory]

There are lots of misconception about the terminology "dan tian" in the west. "Dan tian" is just a location on the body for the convenience of identifiaction. There was no such thing as outer nor inner dan tian. People were misinterpreted the phrase "sink chi to the dan tian". They thought it was meant to store energy to the dan tian. However, it was not the case. In Chi Kung, it was meant to breathe and send the breath(chi) deep down to the abdomen. People cannot stay away from thinking that Chi is always meant "energy".

 

"sink chi to the dan tian" simply means "abdominal breathing" in Chi Kung or martial arts. Your body cannot and does not store energy, it can only generate the energy as long you will used it. If not, it will be gone in few seconds. Your energy will not build up until you take another breath again. Another words, as long you hold your breath deep down in your dan tain, then the energy will be started to generate. As soon you release the breath in the dan tian, your have loss the ability to generate more energy. Unfortunately, there are not many people understand this concept.

 

To understand this concept, you may observe the weight lifters. The weight lifters always take a deep breath and hold before they lift any weights off the floor. I'm sure that you have noticed they always have a belt around the waist to help them to hold their breath. The idea was to keep the energy going to lift the weights for few seconds. Actually, they were using the basic concept of "sink chi to the dan tian". Under the condition of "sink chi to the dan tian", your body muscles will generate the energy holistically. The energy was not from the dan tain as one might thought.

 

so what's the problem in bringing your Yi or intent to the Dantien after practice?

[ChiDragon]

so what's the problem in bringing your Yi or intent to the Dantien after practice?

Based on the wording in the question. I see there is another misconception about 'yi' here.

 

One does not bring the yi or intent to the Dan Tian after practice but during practice.

 

The original phrase was "yi shou3 dan tian", 意守丹田.

yi shou3: focus; concentrate; put your mind into.

 

The phrase "yi shou3 dan tian" was often used by Chi Kung practitioners. It simply means to place one's yi or concentration by focusing every thought on the dan tian as a central point.

 

What are those thoughts...??? They are the deep breathing and the movements of the abdomen but nothing else. The movements for the abdomen are expansion during inhalation and contraction during exhalation for normal breathing. That was what it meant by focus on the dan tian(yi shou3 dan tian) which is the basic fundamental for Chi Kung practice regardless of what style.

 

"Yi Shou3" can be applied to any part of the body. For example, If one wants to make a strike with the right hand, then one wants to place the concentration on the right hand by focusing in holding a fist with the hand while bending the elbow and moving back toward the rear for the initial strike. All these were considered to be "focusing on the right hand".

 

The purpose of focusing on the dan tian was to give one the opportunity to generate the maximum strength of the body. BTW as long one sent the breath deep down to the dan tian regardless one was in normal or reverse breathing, one's body is in the strongest Yang state. Hence, that is why one wants to be in "focusing on the dan tain" before a strike during combat. It was the most desirable time to put oneself in a strongest Yang state.

Edited August 17, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Marks of Glory]

cheers