OMG! I like, totally attained Enlightemnent!

[kundakiss]

Now doesn't that sound fishy. Get your troll masks on. Although, I don't know if Tao Bums troll or not. I'm sure some do. An enlightened troll, that would be a sight!!

I joined this forum just yesterday, and I've read through quite a few posts thus far. And it seems like posts (as well as life) usually fall into 3 categories. "I don't know", I think I know", and "I know". The latter usually doesn't post though =P. It is said that the fool and the wise are twins, simply standing on opposite sides of the spectrum of wisdom. Both equally receptive to personal experience without judgement or preconception. The one in the middle however, caught between the two, forever lives in the mind, a world of personal perception. Mark Twain said "I don't let school get in the way of my education." Implying that this external information that only has a home inside the brain could only interfere with one's own understanding and wisdom. Said wisdom is only extracted from direct contact with reality. But how does one get there? One of the most recognized quotes to martial artists and spiritual seekers: "Don't think! Feeeeeeel! It is like a finger pointing to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger, or you will miss all that heavenly glooory!"

That finger are your thoughts, that constantly interpret the eternal present experience. Focusing on the thoughts, is focusing on a mere idea, instead of the actual thing. " A surrealist painter Rene Magritte, brilliantly demonstrated this idea through one of his paintings. "Ceci n'est pas une pipe" (This is not a pipe) was the caption under a drawing of a smoking pipe. It is true. It is not a pipe. Just a drawing of a pipe. Thoughts are merely personal drawings of one's actual experience. Getting lost in these drawings is what is referred to as "Maya" in Hindu scripture. Illusion.

I read a post recently that asked. How do you know if you're a Taoist? What qualities do you have to have? If you think you're a Taoist, why do you think so? These questions are for that realm of the mind. For that outer world of relativity that needs to categorize and label, in order to avoid complete abstraction. Experience is that. Pure abstractness. Pure spontaneity. It lives in that Eternal NOW, of which the Ego knows nothing about.

That's why it's fishy when someone says "Yes, I've reached Enlightenment". Since it goes in exact opposition to Enlightenment . The idea of Enlightenment exists only FOR the ego, since ego is synonymous with "ignorance". But the ego dies during Full Realization. Which means you can only be viewed as Enlightened to the outside world. Not to yourself. And you can only be seen as a Taoist master to the outside world. Because these concepts become void in pure experience.

This post is simply me thinking out-loud. But now that I've joined this forum, I thought I might share some of my thoughts.

Thank you for reading.

Peace

kundakiss

Image of Magritte's painting: http://www.library.yale.edu/librarynews/ceci-n-est-pas-une-pipe.jpg

Edited September 15, 2015 by kundakiss

[Birch]

Hahahha. you had me with the title. The rest was pretty cool.

 

Welcomes!

[deci belle]

[kundakiss]

I would have to say that no one knows, in that when you know, you don't exist; and when you know you have gained nothing by the experience and it becomes obvious that everyone is so endowed, even though they don't know it… it is a wonderful hopelessness!!

 

But there is something to it, that must be pointed out. First of all, anyone who has died to self-existence is utterly full of it. And it would do well to not leak a word of it to anyone for a long time …at least 5 to 10 years or more like 20. It took the buddha five years, before he was able to start teaching others, but I could be wrong. Not all illuminates are teachers— ever.

 

Secondly, there is an aspect of entry into the inconceivable that grows.

 

Gradual practice after sudden enlightenment is the organic fruition into the mystery of living awareness of selfless evolution.

 

Enlightenment itself is only an entry-level situation in which one has only just begun~ and one's potential is essentially unusable.

 

Taoist alchemy calls the period after completion of the elixir "incubation", so it is obviously a period of subtle concentration where you don't do anything but wait… whoopie. haha!!

 

 

A wonderful hopelessness indeed. It is extremely paradoxical, isn't it. That singularity is the birth of paradox in a sense. Where free-will and destiny co-exist. Hmm, I would disagree about not being able to talk about it however. We cannot compare present times to the times of the Buddha, because Buddha had absolutely no teachings to rely upon, or very little. His understanding had to come purely from his own insight, and after that, wording the inexpressible might have still not been an easy task afterwards. These days, people reach a high level of awareness by contemplating already existing teachings, and extracting their own meaning from them. This allows for verbalization much quicker I think.

 

Also, you don't have to teach with words necessarily. Some masters transform you simply with their presence and point of reference which reflects your own true self. And if you are teaching, it does not necessarily have to be from an "enlightened master is teaching you, so listen up" place, but simply giving insightful advice as common man. When one is in Love within, advice and service come naturally and flawlessly. Life guides your purpose from then on. Not all pursue the position of teacher however, some simply enjoy residing in their perpetual bliss. I don't call enlightened beings teachers though =P. As one guru said, "a teacher informs, a master transforms". A teacher gives information, a master gives experience .

 

You say right after Enlightenment, one's potential is essentially unusable. It depends potential for what? Guiding a few seekers to self realization? Totally doable. Transforming the world with a single thought? Probably not =P. Surely there are levels of enlightenment, but even in the first one, you could benefit millions. I would use someone like Eckhart Tolle as a good example. I think he resides in his fourth chakra. Physical harmony has been attained, but divine wisdom, divine love, or full awakening, not yet. But he has nonetheless been able to help millions. All you need is fearlessness, and you can be unstoppable in your endeavours.

 

Thanks for your reply!!!

 

kundakiss

Edited September 15, 2015 by kundakiss

[astralc]

oodjee, you funny, thanks for your thoughts

[dwai]

A wonderful hopelessness indeed. It is extremely paradoxical, isn't it. That singularity is the birth of paradox in a sense. Where free-will and destiny co-exist. Hmm, I would disagree about not being able to talk about it however. We cannot compare present times to the times of the Buddha, because Buddha had absolutely no teachings to rely upon, or very little. His understanding had to come purely from his own insight, and after that, wording the inexpressible might have still not been an easy task afterwards. These days, people reach a high level of awareness by contemplating already existing teachings, and extracting their own meaning from them. This allows for verbalization much quicker I think.

 

Also, you don't have to teach with words necessarily. Some masters transform you simply with their presence and point of reference which reflects your own true self. And if you are teaching, it does not necessarily have to be from an "enlightened master is teaching you, so listen up" place, but simply giving insightful advice as common man. When one is in Love within, advice and service come naturally and flawlessly. Life guides your purpose from then on. Not all pursue the position of teacher however, some simply enjoy residing in their perpetual bliss. I don't call enlightened beings teachers though =P. As one sadhguru said, "a teacher informs, a master transforms". A teacher gives information, a master gives experience .

 

You say right after Enlightenment, one's potential is essentially unusable. It depends potential for what? Guiding a few seekers to self realization? Totally doable. Transforming the world with a single thought? Probably not =P. Surely there are levels of enlightenment, but even in the first one, you could benefit millions. I would use someone like Eckhart Tolle as a good example. I think he resides in his fourth chakra. Physical harmony has been attained, but divine wisdom, divine love, or full awakening, not yet. But he has nonetheless been able to help millions. All you need is fearlessness, and you can be unstoppable in your endeavours.

 

Thanks for your reply!!!

 

Eugene

 

The Buddha had the samhkya, vedanta and jaina teachers to learn from. So not all of hs "realization" came out of "nothing"

[kundakiss]

The Buddha had the samhkya, vedanta and jaina teachers to learn from. So not all of hs "realization" came out of "nothing"

 

No no, I know. He surely had guides of different kinds. But something like Samkhya is not a complete philosophy, since it's atheistic and dualistic in nature (it addresses only a certain level of understanding), and a lot of other teachings were probably quite distorted due to human ignorance, and mostly the blind leading the blind. So my answer would still remain. These days, verbalization in the mind comes first and much clearer, and then is followed by experience when the truth has been realized. Gautama had teachers to learn from, but we have Buddha to learn from , as well as many other masters who have explained to us The Way since then.

Edited July 27, 2012 by oodjee

[Age Sage]

I'll see your OMG and raise you one LOLZ.

Great thread title.

[kundakiss]

I'll see your OMG and raise you one LOLZ.

Great thread title.

 

Funny you say it like that, I just learned to play poker 3 days ago

And thank you!

[dwai]

No no, I know. He surely had guides of different kinds. But something like Samkhya is not a complete philosophy, since it's atheistic and dualistic in nature (it addresses only a certain level of understanding), and a lot of other teachings were probably quite distorted due to human ignorance, and mostly the blind leading the blind. So my answer would still remain. These days, verbalization in the mind comes first and much clearer, and then is followed by experience when the truth has been realized. Gautama had teachers to learn from, but we have Buddha to learn from , as well as many other masters who have explained to us The Way since then.

if you go talk to a samkhya person they will tell you that buddhism is not a complete philosophy since it is nihilistic. There are lot of very useful and practical insights to be got from all darshanas. And you are mistaken in that during buddha's time there were no masters with attainment.

 

The buddh's way is not the only way...so while a spoilt brat of a prince might have had different needs from that of say a poor man's kid, that doesnt mean the other ways were wrong...

[mYTHmAKER]

Enlightenment is the loss of desire to let people know you are enlightened

[kundakiss]

if you go talk to a samkhya person they will tell you that buddhism is not a complete philosophy since it is nihilistic. There are lot of very useful and practical insights to be got from all darshanas. And you are mistaken in that during buddha's time there were no masters with attainment.

 

The buddh's way is not the only way...so while a spoilt brat of a prince might have had different needs from that of say a poor man's kid, that doesnt mean the other ways were wrong...

 

Before replying to the previous post, I had to google "Samkhya" so I can tell you that my knowledge of it is very superficial. I am not a Buddhist either . You slightly missed my point. "I said Gautama had them, we have Buddha." (Meaning them PLUS Buddha). Whether there were others who were enlightened back then doesn't matter. All I meant is, as time passes, verbal expression/explanation of Tao or Truth continues to become clearer. So I still stand by my point, but I agree with you too! Other ways are not wrong, no such thing really. I like the Jeet Kune Do mentality. "Take what is useful, discard what is not, and add what is your own." I don't follow any specific teaching, or system, but I do use a lot of their techniques (From Zen to Microcosmic Orbit, to Bhakti, to Kriya Yoga, etc).

 

Much UniCHI to you!

 

kundakiss

Edited September 15, 2015 by kundakiss

[dwai]

Before replying to the previous post, I had to google "Samkhya" so I can tell you that my knowledge of it is very superficial. I am not a Buddhist either . You slightly missed my point. "I said Gautama had them, we have Buddha." Whether there were others who were enlightened back then doesn't matter. All I meant is, as time passes, verbal expression/explanation of Tao or Truth continues to become easier. So I still stand by my point, but I agree with you too! Other ways are not wrong, no such thing really. I like the Jeet Kune Do mentality. "Take what is useful, discard what is not, and add what is your own." I don't follow any specific teaching, or system, but I do use a lot of their techniques (From Zen to Microcosmic Orbit, to Bhakti, to Kriya Yoga, etc).

 

Much UniCHI to you!

 

Eugene

Much UniCHI to you as well...

 

But if you ask me i will tell you the more we verbalize the Tao, the farther we go from it.

[kundakiss]

Much UniCHI to you as well...

 

But if you ask me i will tell you the more we verbalize the Tao, the farther we go from it.

 

In a sense yes. In a sense no =)

Edited July 29, 2012 by oodjee

[ChiDragon]

Is 'UniChi' means the universal Chi......???

[kundakiss]

Is 'UniChi' means the universal Chi......???

 

Hehe, well initially I used the word "Unity" and merged it with "Chi". But 'Universal Chi' sounds just as good!! =P

Edited July 29, 2012 by oodjee

[Age Sage]

Enlightenment is the loss of desire to let people know you are enlightened

 

 

Damn! It we don't get to gloat, what else is there?!

[Age Sage]

Funny you say it like that, I just learned to play poker 3 days ago

And thank you!

 

Coincidence! Or maybe some mysterious cosmic connection. Or not!

 

Here's a cheer (for poker team cheerleaders, in case you ever play in a poker league) I got from a Mad Magazine back in the late 60s or maybe early 70s:

 

Aces, aces back-to-back

Fill that Straight with a One-Eyed Jack

Come on team, plaaaaaaay Poker!

Edited July 30, 2012 by Age Sage

[Brian]

Enlightenment is the loss of desire to let people know you are enlightened

 

 

D00d! That's what I was gonna say.

[ChiDragon]

Enlightenment is the loss of desire to let people know you are enlightened

 

ahhh....

Maybe that is why I don't consider myself was enlightened.....

[Rokazulu]

ahhh....

Maybe that is why I don't consider myself was enlightened.....

 

Yeah? Well!

 

I have no desire to tell people that I have no desire to let them know that I'm enlightened.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Rokazulu