Very Basic Dan Tien / Jing Question

[kevincann]

Back 6 months ago, I found my yoga practice to be incomplete, so I wandered my way to some, as it

turns out, Tao type concepts that worked really well for me. Now I'm trying to learn the words for

what my body is doing all on it's own.

 

I was one of those poor SOB's who had jing-transmuted-to-yang rampaging around my body tearing apart

things for like -- um.. 38 years. It started when I hit puberty, that very day, and continued until

I was about 50. I'm 51 now. So this makes me the official worst student in history, at least on this

point, or so it seems.

 

My body told me to pool that 'jing energy' into this space about 2 inches below my navel, and about

2 inches inward. So I did that. After that, my life started to become beautiful. I had twice the

physical energy; the jing/yang wasn't rampaging around my body, and Kundalini entered the third

stage.

 

Now my question;

 

From a traditional Tao standpoint, what path(s) are taken by the jing-transmuted yang energy

after it has been stored in the lower dan tien for a while?

 

There seems to be this truly obscene amount of storage capacity in that dan tien; it's like it

can hold half an ocean. It just keeps expanding in a manner of speaking, without changing in

apparent size much.

 

Now apparently, some energy does circulate out of it, but its not 'rampaging' any more, so

I have some trouble seeing it.

 

Now a good chunk is going into the silent center of Kundalini, but i'm certain that there are

other streams involved, and i'm just not good enough at perceiving it.

 

I'd welcome any feedback/instruction on such a very basic question.

 

Love,

 

Kev

[Disabled Not Broken]

 

 

From a traditional Tao standpoint, what path(s) are taken by the jing-transmuted yang energy

after it has been stored in the lower dan tien for a while?

 

The opening of the Jen-Mai and Tu-Mai Channels...

 

The comfort you are experiencing now maybe Internal Baptism Ching-An

[ChiDragon]

Now my question;

 

1. From a traditional Tao standpoint, what path(s) are taken by the jing-transmuted yang energy

after it has been stored in the lower dan tien for a while?

 

2. There seems to be this truly obscene amount of storage capacity in that dan tien; it's like it

can hold half an ocean. It just keeps expanding in a manner of speaking, without changing in

apparent size much.

 

3. Now apparently, some energy does circulate out of it, but its not 'rampaging' any more, so

I have some trouble seeing it.

 

4. Now a good chunk is going into the silent center of Kundalini, but i'm certain that there are

other streams involved, and i'm just not good enough at perceiving it.

 

I'd welcome any feedback/instruction on such a very basic question.

 

Love,

 

Kev

 

1. All your energy were used to perform the internal and external functions of the body. There was no energy stored in the dan tian at any time. It was only a matter of expression, by the Chinese Taoist, saying how deep the breath went down when you breathe. Thus it was really a matter of how fast can your body reproduce the energy.

 

2. It was only a sensation the one felt when the breath went down deep in that area which called dan tian.

 

3. It is because you are accustomed to the feeling; therefore, you may not feel it all the time but it may be there.

 

4. No comment.

 

 

Note:

The jing-transmuted yang energy was referring to as the "prenatal jing". It is the foods that you eat and the air that you breathe.

[Diamond Spectrum]

Jing Transmutation from:

 

1. Quality of air you breath and the breathe

2. Quality of food and digestion

3. Quality of movement (internal/external)

 

These are the primary three sources at first.

 

1: I think what you are asking is what route of circulation does chi naturally take one the Dan Tien is filled. Correct? Standing and moving meditations provide these answers.

 

2: Your vessel is an opening as well. "Cinnabar FIELDS" thus when the Dan Tien is healthy, your awareness is opened to the entirety of its field in the rest of the universe.

 

3: you want this, it's normal for life, what more, you want to exercise circulation that REFINES these boulders rolling around and smashing into things into fine dust.

 

4: Whats your routine like right now?

[kevincann]

Jing Transmutation from:

 

1. Quality of air you breath and the breathe

2. Quality of food and digestion

3. Quality of movement (internal/external)

 

These are the primary three sources at first.

 

1: I think what you are asking is what route of circulation does chi naturally take one the Dan Tien is filled. Correct? Standing and moving meditations provide these answers.

 

2: Your vessel is an opening as well. "Cinnabar FIELDS" thus when the Dan Tien is healthy, your awareness is opened to the entirety of its field in the rest of the universe.

 

3: you want this, it's normal for life, what more, you want to exercise circulation that REFINES these boulders rolling around and smashing into things into fine dust.

 

4: Whats your routine like right now?

 

I watch life and practice compassion.

 

My body executes 'automatic kriyas' (automatic spiritual practices) of a variety of kinds,

as required. Recently it has started Tao practices, even though I know nothing about Tao.

 

I watch the body and document what it does.

 

Thanks for your information; I enjoy learning things in this way too.

 

Love,

 

Kev

[Diamond Spectrum]

Are the automatic practices something you've picked up along the way or have been spontaneously inspired?

 

I received your PM: Please PM me your email contact as I am mobile and the website will not allow me to respond.

[joeblast]

 

 

From a traditional Tao standpoint, what path(s) are taken by the jing-transmuted yang energy

after it has been stored in the lower dan tien for a while?

 

 

Jing stage first, practices build and refine. Needs completion before jing becomes a fulcrum towards refining qi. Appears to be roughly where you are in alchemical steps. Can only 'leverage' jing after full then refined. Leverage is towards refinement of qi, no enery gaps that interrupt smooth flow. Need to have addressed the jing aspect before this part really happens. Once qi is highly refined only then does it become fulcrum for true shen refinement.

 

What path they take is a very esoteric question, imho more important are fundamentals that let the body do what it needs to. The process is not linear but matrixed wrt 'refinement of jing'. Thresholds are to be considered, for at certain thresholds, changes of 'phase' take place (not necessarily phase in a sinusoidal context.)

 

Honestly, scalar potential is what it is and has many potentials for manifestation, the question is, does your body have a core need it will address, or have its core needs been fulfilled, allowing more potential to be available for other things? Before jing refinement is complete, your body has to address those core needs. You don't have the opportunity to dictate those sorts of things to your flesh, ergo you cannot mortgage your way to spiritual alchemichal progress.

[kevincann]

Are the automatic practices something you've picked up along the way or have been spontaneously inspired?

 

I received your PM: Please PM me your email contact as I am mobile and the website will not allow me to respond.

 

In your profile you have your email listed as 'private' so you won't accept an email; I have no way to

contact you other than to list my private email address on the open internet, and I won't do that.

So if you want me to email you, you'll need to at least temporarily unblock your block on your profile.

 

Love,

 

Kev

[kevincann]

Jing stage first, practices build and refine. Needs completion before jing becomes a fulcrum towards refining qi. Appears to be roughly where you are in alchemical steps. Can only 'leverage' jing after full then refined. Leverage is towards refinement of qi, no enery gaps that interrupt smooth flow. Need to have addressed the jing aspect before this part really happens. Once qi is highly refined only then does it become fulcrum for true shen refinement.

 

What path they take is a very esoteric question, imho more important are fundamentals that let the body do what it needs to. The process is not linear but matrixed wrt 'refinement of jing'. Thresholds are to be considered, for at certain thresholds, changes of 'phase' take place (not necessarily phase in a sinusoidal context.)

 

Honestly, scalar potential is what it is and has many potentials for manifestation, the question is, does your body have a core need it will address, or have its core needs been fulfilled, allowing more potential to be available for other things? Before jing refinement is complete, your body has to address those core needs. You don't have the opportunity to dictate those sorts of things to your flesh, ergo you cannot mortgage your way to spiritual alchemichal progress.

 

I'm really fascinated that these things are clearly known, when at least my less than perfect

knowledge of kundalini yoga and other practices does not inform me, whether all these Tao

things are present in those other systems or not.

 

But that is not important for me anyway. I don't use systems.

 

Ok, I'll tell you a bit about the alchemical transformation I've been watching, and then you

might be able to advise me in some manner.

 

I was born in a blaze of gold and silver fire; the gold was 'hot' and the silver was 'cold'.

The light was tremendous but gentle. While I was being beaten and abused, this fire was my

companion until I was about 7, then the pain got to be too much, the noise in the world got

to be too much, and it faded away; leaving me chasing after 'it' for the rest of my life.

 

I'm not going to blather about kudalini and all that.. lets skip ahead 43 years.

 

Until not that long ago, the sexual fire was roaming about my body driving me insane.

There was nothing in my tradition to tell me what to do with it, and my body was not

properly processing it, as I had a stick up my ass, and had the delusion that I was

someone special, which I'm not.

 

Then suddenly my body knew what to do; there was this 'click' and suddenly the pain

and torment of 38 years (since puberty) was over. Completely over.

 

With time, I realized that (apparently, I'm a newcomer to Tao) the Jing energy was being

converted to yang (or so I'm told) and it's being stored in the lower dan tien.

 

Now I have 2 other things to mention.

 

The (what I call and see) as the 'gold phase of kundalni' has been over for a long time;

my body is at peace with the golden fire and it does not bother me. It's integrated somehow.

 

The (what I call and see) as the 'silver phase of kundalni' is just ending now, apparently;

my body is at peace with the silver fire that is cold.

 

The 'silent center' of Kundalini, which is not in the body at all, but just outside of it,

seems very active; most of the energies in my body are collapsed into it.

 

There is a wonderful, cold-silver fire emitting from this silent center, and it's feeding

into the lower dan tien, and mixing with the fire.

 

This mixed substance is transforming my body in every nook and cranny. It feels delightful

fire-cold in my every cell and thought.

 

I'm feeling very calm, after a life of torment.

 

This is what I'm observing, but I certainly don't understand it.

 

I just know that after I stopped being a prick about 'spiritual things', everything

just seems to be taking care of itself.

 

Again, I have no idea what's happening from a Tao perspective; I just know me likee.

 

I'd love to understand more.

 

Love,

 

Kev

[kevincann]

Are the automatic practices something you've picked up along the way or have been spontaneously inspired?

 

I received your PM: Please PM me your email contact as I am mobile and the website will not allow me to respond.

 

The kriyas have always been operating in me, since I was first properly conscious. Mainly they were

relatively simple ones, such as samvhavi mudra, tongue seeking the roof of the mouth, buddha belly

breathing, bellows breathing, mulabandha and some other situational ones.

 

I'd also be 'inspired' to create new practices for me to follow,then I'd follow them. These were mainly

Bhakti-Shakti practices as I call them; with which you can rev up that fire on ALL levels of being most

powerfully. But apparently I had no concept of 'water practices', so the fire revved up and consumed me

for all those years; until just recently (see other post in this thread).

 

It was more than 40 years later, before I even heard of any of these practices, that my body had

been doing all these years; as I don't read spiritual material; I don't like it. A lot of it is fake.

 

I've just started serious reading of spiritual material in the past couple years, so I have

a mutual frame of reference to speak to people with, and hopefully to smooth over some of the

(no doubt) vast gaps in my knowledge and tunnel vision that I no doubt possess.

 

Love,

 

Kevin

[joeblast]

I'm really fascinated that these things are clearly known, when at least my less than perfect

knowledge of kundalini yoga and other practices does not inform me, whether all these Tao

things are present in those other systems or not.

 

But that is not important for me anyway. I don't use systems.

 

Ok, I'll tell you a bit about the alchemical transformation I've been watching, and then you

might be able to advise me in some manner.

 

I was born in a blaze of gold and silver fire; the gold was 'hot' and the silver was 'cold'.

The light was tremendous but gentle. While I was being beaten and abused, this fire was my

companion until I was about 7, then the pain got to be too much, the noise in the world got

to be too much, and it faded away; leaving me chasing after 'it' for the rest of my life.

 

I'm not going to blather about kudalini and all that.. lets skip ahead 43 years.

 

Until not that long ago, the sexual fire was roaming about my body driving me insane.

There was nothing in my tradition to tell me what to do with it, and my body was not

properly processing it, as I had a stick up my ass, and had the delusion that I was

someone special, which I'm not.

 

Then suddenly my body knew what to do; there was this 'click' and suddenly the pain

and torment of 38 years (since puberty) was over. Completely over.

 

With time, I realized that (apparently, I'm a newcomer to Tao) the Jing energy was being

converted to yang (or so I'm told) and it's being stored in the lower dan tien.

 

Now I have 2 other things to mention.

 

The (what I call and see) as the 'gold phase of kundalni' has been over for a long time;

my body is at peace with the golden fire and it does not bother me. It's integrated somehow.

 

The (what I call and see) as the 'silver phase of kundalni' is just ending now, apparently;

my body is at peace with the silver fire that is cold.

 

The 'silent center' of Kundalini, which is not in the body at all, but just outside of it,

seems very active; most of the energies in my body are collapsed into it.

 

There is a wonderful, cold-silver fire emitting from this silent center, and it's feeding

into the lower dan tien, and mixing with the fire.

 

This mixed substance is transforming my body in every nook and cranny. It feels delightful

fire-cold in my every cell and thought.

 

I'm feeling very calm, after a life of torment.

 

This is what I'm observing, but I certainly don't understand it.

 

I just know that after I stopped being a prick about 'spiritual things', everything

just seems to be taking care of itself.

 

Again, I have no idea what's happening from a Tao perspective; I just know me likee.

 

I'd love to understand more.

 

Love,

 

Kev

Hehe...clearly by few, somewhat by many. /\ I am certainly no master or expert. Just another student assembling pieces and pondering them. Basically what I described was a taoist viewpoint on the jing-qi-shen paradigm, it is a relatively simple concept. I'm not very experienced when it comes to kundalini, I havent quite...gotten around to it, in a variety of ways. As such, I really only relate to your described fires in a yinyang manner. Silent center...can you be a little more accurate on the location? Outside of the rear of the spine, behind, you say? The 'true center' in my experience has been...sorta residing "within" the body, but not within the body - achieving significant attenuation in deep meditation forgets the existence of the body, the signals drop low enough to reach ground state...it leads me to believe in a multidimensional construct of experience, because there's no room for consciousness in up down left right - or why a scientist might assert 'there is no god,' because ostensibly there is more to heaven and earth than dreamt of in that philosophy...

[Diamond Spectrum]

Food for thought. In the Taoist metaphysics transmitted to me, the "center" of circulation was quite different from any of the three Dan Tiens, it was a space in the body in which a vacuum was formed in order to spin the orbit. This vacuum was not formed by focusing on any of the three cinnabar fields.

[kevincann]

Food for thought. In the Taoist metaphysics transmitted to me, the "center" of circulation was quite different from any of the three Dan Tiens, it was a space in the body in which a vacuum was formed in order to spin the orbit. This vacuum was not formed by focusing on any of the three cinnabar fields.

 

Hey DS,

 

thanks for the post.

 

You know that people tend to find what they are looking for!

 

You know, I spent something like 30 years working with 'chakras', and I never

noticed the LDT until my body needed it! I'm not saying it wasn't there,

but of course is 'something really there before it's observed?' (quantum mechanics).

 

Lots of yoga folks would say that dantien don't exist at all, and Tao folks

often say wildly different things about chakras; Tao seems to document more

like 70 chakras than 7.

 

Now am I demeaning either tradition? Not at all.

 

When we start listening to the body and learning it's wisdom, we will get

everything that we need.

 

Now this spinning thing;

 

I'm not saying it's not valid. It certainly could be.

 

In fact as everyone knows, a lot of people visualize chakras as 'spinning'.

 

Really, this just helps build the sushumna, as the sushumnas analogue in the

brain is the somatosensory cortext in the postcentral gyrus, and it is closely

associated with the primary motor cortex, which is DEVELOPED (using neural

plasticity) by imagining motion but not doing motion.

 

This knowledge is also Tao!

 

I talk about the silent center of kundalini in the lower body a lot (not just

the more traditional one called brahmarandhra in the head.

 

But this 'silent center' is not real for a lot of people (it's silent!). So is

this center accessible before it's needed? Well obviously not.

 

Thanks so much for your interest in adding value to my questions, and I'd love

to keep learning from your perspective.

 

Love,

 

Kev